What to Use with the VPC (GCC, SAFR, SAFC) [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

: What to Use with the VPC (GCC, SAFR, SAFC)


BlkGost
03-30-2001, 10:03 PM
I've heard mixed opinions on this one, so any advice would be appreciated. Thanx.

BlkGost
04-03-2001, 11:09 PM
come on I know someone here has an answer...........?

ecoli
04-04-2001, 01:03 PM
Opinions are mixed... :)

Endless
04-05-2001, 10:30 PM
IMO S-AFC would be my choice because its more flexible than the GCC. I really havent heard anything about the AFR but I'm sure its cool.

Moto'freak
04-06-2001, 06:07 AM
I have a Super AFR install and it hooks up to the vpc via the Blue wire ! It works great & sloved my idle problem with the cams that I have installed.

Endless
04-06-2001, 03:48 PM
So how do you like the new AFR?. I was just wondering how simple or comples they were to tune.

BlkGost
04-06-2001, 07:52 PM
I like the s-afr myself how does it compare to the afc??? I read on nabr board that things get screwy when using the afc.

Moto'freak
04-06-2001, 08:20 PM
I love the AFR ,over the AFC,(sold it) but @ first ot was a bitch to figure out the control (unlike) the very friendly AFC. The AFC was great but it did not have EIDE system for something like that to help out my idle problem I had with the vpc (webcams)& venting to the ATM,How every I found out. that everything I was playing around with boost on my EVC IV, I would have to finetune my AFC each time I touch my boost.

The Super AFR is a small unit (same size as the EVC unit)& instructions suck (HK$ B.S>) I had to call HK$ to find out what about the blue & the VPC pressure wire. There is alos a telephone jack on the back of the unit ( I have no clue on what this does nor HK$ didn't want to tell me) This blue in the manul goes to a P-con ? unit and it auto adjust for different pressures, and My VPC had same wire , so I ask HK$ and said hook it up and it will fucntion the same way as if a P-con unit was hooked up. It took me a about a week it my spare time to learn these unit and I can play around from 15 psi to 25 psi without touch any settings!!

The engine does stall anymore from venting & I idle a round 550-600 rpms all the time now, its a great unit, even on its own.

(easy to use)
setup AFC 9 & AFR 7
overall look AFC 10 & AFR 8
Boost adj. AFC 4 AFR 10
idle AFC 4 AFR 10

This is what I thought when making these mark (On my setup)
if you have any question about it feel free to ask

BlkGost
04-07-2001, 05:03 PM
Hey moto thanx for the info. How much did the unit cost? And it really allows you to vent even in stock trim (the advertsiment wasn't bs)??? Size wise to the vpc is it larger or smaller (height/width)

Endless
04-07-2001, 05:20 PM
So is the HK$ AFR pretty easy to adjust. Do you select with the buttons and then dial it in with the knob. I like HK$ products and have had good luck with them in the past especially with the supras that I have done.

Moto'freak
04-08-2001, 09:46 AM
BLKGost: the unit costed about $600 canuck bucks I guess around $350 US. The size of the unit is the same as the EVC IV ,or the same size in width as the VPC. I vent but with my VPC aswell.

Endless:Once I got used to the AFR unit, it was very easy (after a week). It also has a self-learning mode which came in very handy to help me in just fine tuning it. it has one dial for the idle & the other for adjusting the range setting for eack rpm setting. There is also a adjustment for Throttle responce :) I think that that feature was the hardest to fool around with! But now I haven't changed any settings (once I got it dialed in) it will help me make adjustments when I turn up the boost.

[Edited by Moto'freak on 04-08-2001 at 11:48 AM]

BlkGost
04-12-2001, 08:35 PM
Hey moto sorry to bug you but I just found an old style afc for 100 and I was wondering how well does it work in conjuction with the vpc. Also I'm just running the vpc right now and to get a deccent idle I have to have it set at 1000 rpm (too high :( ), and when I stop I surge up and down once or twice then it settles. My question is this I have a sport comp autometer a/f gauge, should it read rich constantly at idle or do I have it way to rich???

Settings: response: full
gain : 9 o'clock
idle : 8 o'clock (when hot) 9 o'clock (when cold)

Thanx

If you don't feel like posting it here mail me blkgosttsi@aol.com

Moto'freak
04-15-2001, 08:40 PM
I have my VPC hooked like this with my AFR
1. MAP sensor
2. VPC
3. AFR at the signal wire from the VPC & Output wire to ECU
4. ECU


Most of the adjustments are done with the AFR. Just make sure you hook up the AFC between the VPC & ECU signal wire.. I have had my car running with no problems now for over a month with my new setup. The AFR does everything I haven't touched it once ! Let me know (if) you have hooked the AFC up. It would be interesting to hear about that.

I think someone should start a website based on tunning & settings for all or most aftermarket parts ???

Colin P
05-18-2001, 12:54 PM
Moto'freak, thanks for all the info, I have been struggling to decide which fuel controller to get. Do you know if the SAFR will correct stumbling when venting the BOV with a stock MAF? I see you are using the VPC. I am planning on keeping my MAF, but I want to vent the BOV to the atmos. The Apex'i SAFC has a feature to correct for the stumbling problem, but it only works with hot-wire style meters, not the Karmann type on the DSMs. Anyway, my question is if you know if the correction feature will work with the stock MAF.. Thanx!

Rdy2race
05-18-2001, 01:59 PM
I can not comment on the AFR as I have not had a chance to play with one :( but soon I hope

About a VPC with old and new AFC's

They work "ok " with the old AFC but still better then the GCC does. the " please sir my I have more " that the GCC plays with the VPC doesn't work the AFC has more range but your subject to the fail safe fuel curve of the VPC. this is a tuning problem

I used a AFC to correct the idel problem on a 90 GSX with Web Street Grind in it. With the VPC you get such a low vac signal that the VPC wants to add fuel. you can't get it to idel correct and the stall is B/C of this not the venting of the BOV. The BOV discharge does nothing to the VPC as all the readings are taken at the T body and Manifold it self so,blowing off the pressure before the sensor doesn't hurt it's control at all. It never knew that air was there anyway. We used a new AFC ( they are both called S-AFC so that doesn't work ) is a great unit. so flexable that in the right hands it can do just about anything you can think of. With this I was able to get the car to idle PERFECT!!! 750-760-750-760-750..... I have my own way to hook up a AFC and VPC. way to much to go in to here, I couldn'r even explain. I would think that others do it the same way as I do but this is not the way APEXi says to do it. I see to may flaws in the way they say to. The local NYC area DSMers are welcome to come see this at the NYC DSM Picnic this saturday ( plug ) http://www.nyc.dsm.org

Now about changing boost. The readson the AFC needs to be plaied with every time the boost is changed is B/C the fuel settings are not linier for a motor as boost changes. it is in thory CORRECT to have to make fuel map changes in order to make the car run right. As the CFM's go up the Temp, load and needed fuel do not go up all at the same rate. your combo will effect how much change is needed to meet the need. How the AFR is doing this I can only guess that with a input singal and the VPC dishing out the code it is programed to work togeather. But just like when you go from pump gas to leaded fuel I can not see ther AFR being able to take in account for all the vairables that each and every car has in them. Will it be able to get close? Sure your close with the AFC but it be D.O.B I would think that some sort of added fuel and tuning will be needed when i change timming curves and boost and outside temp and humidity.

So this is just my experance. I have yet to even get to see a AFR installed and would like to know more about it's idle control. if you ask me the AFC has split tables that gives me total idel control as long as you understand the correction between tables and how it really works. it is a VERY deep unit if you keep on diging.

get useto the HK$ guys now knowing a dam thing about what the company in Japan is making for them this is FAR form a new problem.

With the way that it sounds the AFR is hooken in to the VPC output signal ( last knob to the right ) Moto is the output scale moving now? it should if it is hooken up like a P con. this controls how much of the code is modded by the VPC. Kind of like a master gain when using two computers so you can set how much change the VPC does. I would peg it out and let the AFR do the fine tuning.

gvr4drew
05-27-2001, 12:08 AM
So with the VPC/S-AFC combo, the Web Cams are happy?

Moto'freak
05-27-2001, 08:43 AM
Whoa its ben awhile since I've seen this post.

After getting the lasest manual from HK$
I have hooked it up differentlylike this
Pressure senor
AFR
VPC
ECU

And with that it also states to turn off the EIDE feature from the dip switches in the back of the unit and I discconected the output wire from the VPC. (even though the updated manaul doesn't even say hook it up or discconect it)

I haven't been trying to tune it latey for power. More like getting my fuel eco. back on track since I have got 720cc a few weeks ago ! I also talked with tech support again & the AFR has telephone plug on the back of it for reprograming :-) but the the only software has been writing in Japanese :( I'm just about to hookup the output wire again and see it it gets better again.

I'll come back and check this forum often