16G Killer Turbo??? [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

: 16G Killer Turbo???


97GSTAT
04-08-2001, 01:03 PM
I was wondering if anyone is running with this and what everyone has or feels about it. Is it a better turbo then a small 16G? I know it cost more but from what I know it's a kit that bolts onto a 2G, is this true? Thanks for the info!

brokentalon
04-08-2001, 07:48 PM
waste of money. I have seen this turbo kit, and I dont think it is worth half of what they sell it for.

blacklaser
04-09-2001, 02:15 PM
hey bro its a waste of money i ran a guy at the track with the killer 16 g and it sucked... i have a 14b and i kept up pretty well with him...go big 16g ported and clipped nad u;ll be happy.. i know someone who is selling a frank jr (little bigger then big 16 g) i think with injectors if u r interested

wkd20
04-09-2001, 09:50 PM
forget the ihi kit, i had the big 16, then the 18, and now the hrc s-20g, if i would have known the power of the hrc kit i would have done it first, its the sme price as the ihi kit only double the power and efficiency!!!!

brokentalon
04-09-2001, 10:05 PM
that is how I feel about my Mutt 2.

Endless
04-09-2001, 11:21 PM
god Joe, You're like a walking advertisement for HRC..... they should sponsor you or something.

brokentalon
04-10-2001, 12:02 AM
Yeah I noticed that too hehe!

big reg
04-10-2001, 02:22 PM
In my honest opinion i would go with the 19c frank jr, ported and clipped. I have it and love it. Just saturday i waxed a c5 by about 6 cars in about a eight mile from light to light and put about 6 or more cars on it from 70 to 130. It takes a while to get used to the lag compared to the peashooter i mean t-25 but it makes full boost at about 3500-3800 w full 3 inch exhaust no cat, ported exhaust manifold, lancer evo III o2 housing and 546\547 web cams w the big greddy frontmount. Anything over about 15-16 psi and a fuel system is in order as fuel cut is a real bitch. But i definately recommend it.
Later,
Reg

Endless
04-10-2001, 05:05 PM
The only drawbacks to the 17C and the 19C is that they are not performance wheels. But they are an upgrade none the less

wkd20
04-10-2001, 06:37 PM
hrc super 20g, hrc super 20g, hrc super 20g!!!! nuff said!!

Endless
04-10-2001, 07:25 PM
Its the HRC billboard WKD20.............

wkd20
04-10-2001, 10:29 PM
h a, h a, i'm just telling the truth, for the money u cant beat the power and easy install! and u dont have 2 spend all the extra money on wasteagte and elim downpipe. save ur money for some other mod ! signed,joe(the hrc20g-man)hehe

brokentalon
04-11-2001, 01:01 AM
I actually helped some one install one of those Super 20g turbos, and I must tell you that I would never buy one of those for ease of install. There is way to much to do, and the exhuast leaks are out of control. I also think that the price is a little high on them, but if you like it than more power to you.

I personally would not buy one of those turbos.
No offense

TurboG1
04-11-2001, 02:40 AM
I have a few questions;
Is the HRC s20g water cooled?
It is avertised that the installation
kit is complete, any extras I need to buy
mount it to the stock compressor inlet/outlet
position?

Thanks

Alex Gapas
93 GSX

wkd20
04-11-2001, 07:05 AM
it is water cooled, yes, i never had one single leak with my kit it only took 4hrs start to end and thats farting around for a while, this kit is very nice it sits in the stock location and they give u everything u need to install it including gaskets EVERYTHING comes with this kit for install, just ask endless he sees it all the time. check out the hrc site. l8tr , joe

Blitz
04-11-2001, 08:35 AM
wkd20,

What times have you run ?

wkd20
04-11-2001, 07:38 PM
i have just enough break-in miles on the turbo to go tune, so i havent run it yet, as soon as i get the chance to run i'll post it.

Endless
04-11-2001, 08:01 PM
WKD20 has been one of the lucky ones from what I have read on here . He has had no exhaust leaks and his install went very quickly. He also got the new hardware. His spacer plates also looked good. i've read on this site also that some have gotten spacers thatlooked like a child cut them. His setup looks good and we'll have to wait to see how it runs. One thing they dont tell you is that you have to beat one of the fans back a little to get the turbo to fit.

turbotuner
04-12-2001, 12:38 PM
I put in a HRC super 20g and I didn't have any exuast leaks either. It took me a little longer though, damn rusty bolts. I love the turbo too. Top end on this turbo is incredible. Also spools up by 3800. Putting my spearco FMIC tomorrow so I can turn up the boost. I personally wouldn't put anything smaller than a 20g on a dsm. Even thinking of going bigger in the future to full drag race set up.

element8sk
04-12-2001, 12:53 PM
even on a fwd car?

TurboG1
04-12-2001, 12:55 PM
Which super20g version do you guys have? I read HRC's webpage the turbos are on sale.

Alex G
93 GSX

brokentalon
04-12-2001, 01:02 PM
even on a fwd car?

Especially on a FWD car. Smaller turbos spool up faster giving you more wheel spin. The large the turbo usually means that it will take a little longer to spool, so you will have some momentum when the boost hits, and hopefully the tires wont spin like crazy.

turbotuner
04-12-2001, 01:08 PM
This turbo is on a 95gst. I am going to get my tranny rebuilt with lsd because 20g on a fwd is pretty brutal in 1st and 2nd when boost kicks in. Even with the tires spinning I am doing 0 to 60 fast and when downshifting on the go, the 20g and fwd is a great combination. I have the HRC super 20g.

[Edited by turbotuner on 04-12-2001 at 03:16 PM]

MoBoost
04-12-2001, 02:29 PM
What's that: "break-in miles on the turbo"????

ecoli
04-12-2001, 03:06 PM
I think "break-in miles" on a turbo are around the block once, check for leaks, then floor it to 20 psi.

brokentalon
04-12-2001, 04:04 PM
Hell Yeah, there is not need for break in miles on a turbo.


Boost on

wkd20
04-12-2001, 08:17 PM
bill at hrc told me to run the turbo about 400 mi before i run a lot of boost to make sure the bearings have no play and everything is ok, i personally think u should give all parts a sort of break-in to ensure nothing is wrong, this is thier recommendation , they've sold a lot of these turbos so i listen to what they say. bill was extremly helpful about all the tech questions i had about this turbo, it has awesome top end, it is the super 20g not the n series(drag only- no spool-use nos to spool). every part was presise! best turbo money i've ever spent! all u have 2 do is cut the fan or use a spal fan. Thanks for the help Bill HRC ALL THE WAY!!!!SUPER 20G!!!!!!!!!!!

ProjectGSX
04-13-2001, 08:57 AM
I have an XS Engineering 16G killer on my 99 GSX. Pretty disappointed with it. I ran a best of 14.0 on the stock T25 and stock clutch. Ran 13.7 on a 14B and stock clutch, and now with the 16G killer and ACT2600, best run to date is 14.2. It spools really fast and pulls hard, but craps out on the top end. Fit and finish isnt very good either. I had to get the flange cut off of my down pipe and rewelded because the angle of their o2 housing is off a bit.

As for the HRC S20G.. They had a lot of problems with these turbos when they were first coming out. They required a spacer for the exhaust manifold which in turn required the installation of new studs. The studs had a tendency to break. I have heard that they have fixed this problem, since then.

The only time I dealt with HRC was very discouraging. It took close to 6 weeks to get what I ordered, I was double charged for it, and never ended up getting all of my money refunded for the over charging. (I got most of it, gave up on the last 10$ or so)

However, they do make some pretty incredible products tho. Great design on their upper IC pipe and they (used to?) make great eliminator downpipes.

Boostd4
04-13-2001, 09:13 AM
My buddies do a lot of dealing with HRC and all agree that the guy has brains. Everyone respects his knowledge, but the majority of people I drive with don't respect his prices :)

He's kind of crafty... good in this profession, I guess. For instance, read the description of the Super 16G (which is $1200 might I add... nearly twice the price of a big 16G, albeit you get a tubular 02 housing). "Smooth power delivery of this turbo makes it great for FWD cars"

You wanna know why? Cuz that 10cm housing slows spool! The reason FWD cars don't get traction on regular 16G's is because they spool like lightening and the tires can't handle it! For us AWD guys, that's exactly what we're looking for. I'm sure that 10cm housing flows much better at top end, but someone buying a 16G usually isn't looking for top-end or they'd just buy a 20G/frank/mutt/green/gpumper (this is getting out of hand). The appeal of a standard 16G is that if offers more power with similar driveability issues.

And on top of this I live about 30 minutes from HRC. Nice facility - but I have to pay IL state tax, so add 7% on to their allready high prices :(

HRC Engineering
04-13-2001, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Boostd4
(which is $1200 might I add... nearly twice the price of a big 16G, albeit you get a tubular 02 housing)


You're making it too easy, Boost'd!

A reader of your post might think the message is that a Super 16G just a 16G with a tubular 02 housing. I suspect that you may not be aware of what one would need to add to a regular or big 16G turbo to be as complete as a Super kit:

Very complete installation kit
Stainless oil line upgrade / fittings
Stainless / silicone oil drain line upgrade
Turbine housing porting
Turbine wheel clipping
O2 housing porting or Eliminator housing
Flapper valve mods (to prevent boost creep)

Plus, no need for an external wastegate should it be converted to 20G later.

After one adds it all up, we start to look pretty good.

I do like the crafty and brains comments, though!

We may not be able to compete on price with some of the more, ahem, aggressive internet sources, but overall, we do not do too badly. Most customers that experience the design and effort we put into these products seem to agree.

fastass4bangr
04-13-2001, 02:01 PM
do you guys really feel confident with a 20g using an internal regulator?Im wanting to go from my current big 16g to a 20g and all the guys I talk to say anything other than an external gate is unreasonable,especially if you wanna run over 20 psi?...

ProjectGSX
04-13-2001, 02:11 PM
The HRC 20G uses a big ass internal gate.. they dont seem to have any problems with it.

Otherwise, Id run a 35mm external atleast.

TurboG1
04-13-2001, 02:50 PM
Thanks for all the info,

I just ordered the Super 20G. We'll see how this badboy
goes in and performs.

Alex G
93 GSX
http://turbog1.homestead.com/MODS.html

wkd20
04-13-2001, 07:59 PM
i love this turbo, if your not the car isnt tuned, mine isnt fully tuned and i get great spool! you cant sit on the fence, if u want top end you have to give up a little spool, this is a manly turbo so thats how it acts! every piece in tis kit is extremely precise! anyone who purchases this turbo will NOT be dissapointed with it. i guaranty ,if u buy a REGULAR big 16 g u will not be satisfied with it and will upgrade after a while , i had one and i did!

Endless
04-13-2001, 08:53 PM
hehehehhehe...you said manly....heheh

the damn exhaust housing makes it look like it came off a big truck........honk honk...

Only turbo I've ever seen where the compressor housing and exhaust housing are teh same size...lol....jk

Joe did you ge your sponsorship yet?

wkd20
04-13-2001, 09:33 PM
im working on it!

Endless
04-13-2001, 11:12 PM
Hey pansy are you gonna get that thing on tuned before the 28th and 29th of this month ..... or are you gonna miss out on the next Texas race. Just wondering.

JoeGSX
04-14-2001, 12:05 AM
Do you have to modify the fan on a 2G (97) GSX? Or do you only have to modify a 1G fan?

DiamondsR4EVR
04-14-2001, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by big reg
In my honest opinion i would go with the 19c frank jr, ported and clipped. I have it and love it. Just saturday i waxed a c5 by about 6 cars in about a eight mile from light to light and put about 6 or more cars on it from 70 to 130.


HOLY CRAP

I bought the wrong turbo!!! Ported small 16g here. Maybe I can compensate with some head work.

SilverBullet
04-14-2001, 05:38 PM
There's no "real" break in period for a turbo. The turbo wheel is spinning so QUICKLY, that if anything was going to go wrong it would happen immediately.

HRC Engineering
04-14-2001, 08:43 PM
Turbocharger break-in is advisable, if only for the same reasons that a new engine is not brought to full power during the first few hundred miles of operation.

Break-in, whether for an engine or a turbocharger, is primarily intended to allow plain bearing surfaces to wear in before they see heavy loading. This period enables normal 'high spots' on the bearing and journal surface to wear away. Burnishing of the bearing and journal surface also occurs during this period; this is a process similar to polishing the surfaces. If during this process, the bearing sees either high loads or high RPM, this normal stripping away of the high spots can become more intense than desired, scoring journals and removing excessive material from the bearing. Not a good plan for long life.

Evidence of the removal of high spots is the presence of engine bearing material in the oil and filter that is removed after the initial engine break in period. Not a cause for alarm (unless it becomes apparent again at a later oil change!), this material will appear as flakes of metal and an overall 'metallic' appearance to the oil, not unlike metallic paint. It will subside once the break in is complete; usually 500 to 1000 miles.

We have all heard of race engines that are beat on right out of the box. While not unusual, this process can sharply reduce the life of plain bearings in such an engine. Of course, if all the engine will ever see is a short racing life, long term durability is not a concern. But for the rigors of tens of thousands of miles(and hours) of street use, long term durability is paramount, whether for a turbo or an engine. Correct break in is good insurance.

[Edited by HRC Engineering on 04-15-2001 at 12:12 PM]

wkd20
04-14-2001, 10:44 PM
now that was an in-depth explaination, glad i'm not the only one who sees it this way, thanks bill

Boostd4
04-15-2001, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by HRC Engineering
Turbocharger break-in is advisable, if only for the same reasons that a new engine is not brought to full power during the first few hundred miles of operation.

unlike metallic paint. It will subside once the break in is complete; usually 500 to 1000 miles.


Are we talking about engines or turbochargers or both here? Are you suggesting that after purchasing a new turbo one should pussy foot around for 500-1000 miles before testing it out? I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious (I recently purchased a new turbo).

HRC Engineering
04-15-2001, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Boostd4
Are we talking about engines or turbochargers or both here? Are you suggesting that after purchasing a new turbo one should pussy foot around for 500-1000 miles before testing it out? I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious (I recently purchased a new turbo).


I used the analogy of engine break-in to help illustrate the concept. Usually, turbochargers are well broken in within a few hundred miles (their bearings do not see the heavy loading that connecting rod, main and cam bearings see during new engine break-in).

As an oil change should also accompany a new turbo installation, good lubrication during this period will be achieved if the turbo is not boosted cold, and only lightly boosted when the engine (and oil) is warm. Unlike the engine break-in, an oil change is not neccesary at 500 to 1000 miles after turbo installation, as the amount of material removed from the turbo bearings is a trace amount compared to engine break in.

Turbo20lbs
04-15-2001, 10:48 PM
I like my Hahn kit. I'll post my time slips and dyno sheet when I get them. THe spool isn't that bad, but it is noticable. The top end power delivery is really strong. It's not like I was crying when I went from t-25 spool to Hahn s-16g.

redryda
04-15-2001, 11:02 PM
;with all those mods, what are you runnin???

Turbo20lbs
04-15-2001, 11:41 PM
I'll find out shortly, I might do a dyno run soon. Then go to track within the next month. I got the car in June and did most of the mods of the winter. I haven't been to the track once since I bought it.

phrenzy
04-19-2001, 03:38 AM
Hey Turbo20, you live in or around Dayton, Ohio? Your car looks hella familiar. I never forget a dsm.

TurboG1
04-29-2001, 01:29 AM
Okay I got my super 20g, I was kind of disappointed, I knew before I placed the order I asked about hooking up to the stock location of compressor housing(intake and discharge of compressor) and the salesperson said it does and comes with the available hardware, plus I did stress out the fact I did have a 93 GSX. I did not get the 2 longer 10mm bolts for exhaust manifold to head. And my turbo did not come with an elbow as illustrated on their website, come to find out upon reading the instructions it was suppose to be that way w/out the elbow. I did email, an got a response, but I will call on Monday about this. I have to pay somewhere around $50. plus I had to provide a diagram how I want my elbow to be installed(which is opening facing the right side towards like in the website) and to be careful how I want it because I might provide information that will cause the elbow to chaff or hit the front engine mount. Plus I have to send the whole turbo unit back(I was planning on sending just the compressor housing, but because of the waranty I cannot). I was hoping for an even exchange for the 2nd generation which has the elbow set where I want it(does it hit the 1st gen engine mount?)since it is not been used or installed. I'll call Monday to ask for their consideration.

Alex G
93 GSX

[Edited by TurboG1 on 04-29-2001 at 04:03 AM]

TurboG1
04-29-2001, 01:36 AM
Anybody have pics/info of a Super 20g installed on a 1st Generation with compressor discharge exiting towards the right.

Thanks

Alex G
93 GSX

wkd20
04-29-2001, 07:37 AM
hey turboG1 call me at work monday 501-783-8552 and i can help u w/this problem they dont have it on there because on the 1g it REALLY is in the way it hits the mount. i do have a couple of extra elbows for this turbo so u cant run ur pipe. i ran mine out towards the pass side the 1st time. u can have an elbow if u need it just call me mon. l8tr

TurboG1
04-29-2001, 10:59 AM
Okay thanks

Alex G
93 GSX