TantrumSKID
12-19-2005, 09:10 PM
I recently needed a clutch install on my '99 GSX and found out about Turbotrix in Edison, NJ. Being native to New York City, it was about 1.5 hours out of my way, but needless to say I felt my DSM deserved the little effort in travel time to have the job done right. I chose and purchased a SPEC Stage II clutch kit from SpeedFactor in VA based on all the positive reviews this kit has been getting here and at tuners. I called Turbotrix a week in advance and made an appointment. The guy on the phone, Mike, seemed nice enough and was accomodating in answering the million+1 questions I had (I am a very conscious buyer and before I purchase services or goods, I like to know what I'm getting into). In short, he confirmed that they were indeed DSM "specialists" and work almost exclusively on 1g/2g and EVOs. When asked about installing the clutch (the SPEC one to be specific) he said they'd done one on a Subaru WRX. Moreover, he also told me that if arranged, the work could be done same day if dropped off early enough and the car would be returned in the afternoon. This made me really happy as I no longer had to worry about arranging for extra transportation home or back to pick up.
A week passed by and my appointment day had come. Suffering from a slipping clutch for the past several weeks, I was looking forward to finally being able to unleash the full potential of my DSM again. Needless to say I woke up bright and early filled with excitement. I originally made the appointment for 9am, but manhattan and tunnel traffic was especially horrendous that day and I didn't arrive at their shop until 10:30. When I got there, I asked if me being late would impact them being able to deliver my car completed on time at the end of the day as promised. Mike said it was not a problem, snagged my keys, and my car was in the shop and on the lift within 20-30 mins. Wow, I thought to myself, another big + on the customer service.
The late afternoon rolled around and I stopped by the shop with about an hour remaining on my install. I hung out in the waiting area, read some magazines, and was pretty much psyched to get my car back with a functional clutch. Here's where things got interesting. As I was goofing off and killing time, a customer walks in. I overheard him complaining to Mike about how his second gear "grinds now" and that they need to look at the work they did on his car. Some more arguing ensued, but I drowned it out thinking nothing of it initially and went about my business. The customer then sat down as well. Myself growing tired of the reading selection, I decided to strike up a friendly conversation. Long story short, this guy whose name I didn't catch was also a pround 2G owner ('99 GST if I remember). He had his clutch and clutch fork replaced the week prior and was living a nightmare ever since. Because I do not know the full details of his situation I will not remark on he said/she said heresay. Suffice it to say though, he put a very big lump in my stomach. He warned me to pop the hood and inspect the contents, test drive the car as thoroughly as possible, and make sure everything was right before I even thought of embarking on my journey home. I did mention home was over an hour away in NYC to him, which made him stress the test driving part even further.
By now, my mood had gone from jittery and excited to anxious and somewhat paranoid. At the same time though, I kept telling myself that this is only one customer and most likely an isolated incident. Afterall, this shop churns out high horsepower cars and 9 second EVOs right? Clutch jobs to them are like rudimentary physics to Einstein. Walk in the park. It was probably just a big misunderstanding. I had nothing to worry about. Or did I.... :rolleyes:
When one of the guys finally came around to hand me my keys, I made sure to ask, "So everything went ok? Did you guys take it for a spin and test the car out?". I got an apathetic nod. After taking my keys, one of the guys (Keith) who I saw through the shop window physically sitting in the driver seat tinkering with the gearbox also walked in. I also asked him how the install went, and we proceeded to have a conversation about how 2Gs are prone to crankwalk and shoot the shit about DSMs a bit. He mentioned to me that the TOB that came with the SPEC was really funky looking and did not in any way resemble the OEM one that came out of the car. Not being very mechanically inclined personally, I kind of looked at him like he had 3 heads when he said that and could only ask "oh...is that a bad thing?" He said it was not good or bad, that it was just different looking is all.
Finger crossed and saying a silent prayer, I walked out to the lot and got in my car. The first thing I noticed was the gears became INCREDIBLY stiff. None of them grinded, but in a stopped position with clutch in, I had to throw a little of my weight into the shifter to make them go in. Immediately I ran inside to notify Keith. He came outside and checked them out, took the car for a drive with me in the passenger seat, and after a few blocks commented how they weren't bad compared to what they were 'before'. I'm thinking to myself, my car has only 30 some odd thousand miles on its odometer and drove like mint (other than the clutch slippiage) when I brought it in here. What the hell did he mean it's actually better than before? Turns out what he meant was after they got the clutch on, for some reason or other the shifter was so stiff they needed the force of both hands and leg leverage to get it to go into gear. Ok, so I guess it's probably a little stiff after putting together everything and just needs time to free itself up again. Fair enough explanation. I thanked him for his help and heeding the other customer's advice, I proceeded to drive up and down the roads surrounding the shop. Sure enough the gears began freeing up and the car appeared to operate normally. With my fears almost completely erased, I breathed a sigh of relief and headed toward the main road that lead to the highway. On the main road, there were many stoplights and I noticed at the second or third one that my idle had risen and stayed at a steady 1200RPMs. Again, I immediately rushed back to the shop. Keith came out again and after looking around under the hood, said the recirculation kit on my HKS SSQV was to blame. He said the adapter nozzle that connected the tube to the intake dump was too flimsy and must be the culprit. Hmm, I've had this same BOV for over a year now with not a single problem and mysteriously THIS was to blame? Sounded wrong, but who was I to argue with the "specialist". He cut the adapter to fit inside the hose instead of around it and clamped the hose around the newly made adapter. I forgot to mention that when I first mentioned the high idle, prior to pointing his finger at the SSQV recric, HE TOOK A SCREWDRIVER TO THE BISS SCREW AND BOTTOMED IT OUT! At that time I had no idea you could/should not touch the BISS without a scantool or ecu groundout, it wasn't until I got home with my idle problems still occuring and searching the forums that I realzied what a royal fuck up that was on his part.
On the highway parts of the drive home, I noticed a very distinct wobbling/metal-on-metal noise coming from the bottom region of the vehicle. It would happen only on a heavy decel (ie. 70 to 60 engine breaking) and if I clutched in, blipped the gas or threw the car in neutral, the sound would go away. At this point it was almost 9pm, and with nobody answering the phone at Turbotrix, I didn't want to chance driving back and finding a closed shop. So instead I drove home and figured I would call in the morning, speak to Keith, and he'll arrange a time for me to go back. Next day came, after getting in touch with Keith, he said it'd be no problem for me to bring the car in the following Friday to have another look at the idle, and told me that sound I was hearing on decel was 'normal'. "It's your driveline noise resonating through your bellhousing. Most heavy duty clutches will do that, it's nothing to worry about." Again, I was speechless. Nobody and none of the reviews I read listed any of these type of symptoms about SPEC clutches. But I figured whatever, it'll get resolved when I go back.
During the week, because he bottomed out my idle screw, my car reacted all kinds of funny. I even threw an SES light. After searching through the forums I realized the problem causing the original high idle was probably still present and things had just gotten compoundedly worse by him messing with my BISS screw. Praying and hoping they honor their worksmanship, the next Friday could not have come quicker. I drove back down to Turbotrix bright and early hoping to get all my issues resolved. Instead, all I got was grief. First off, after speaking to Mike and Keith, I was hoping either one of them would ask me for the keys and take the car out back. Instead, some other guy Mark (who was not present that day when I had my clutch installed) asks me for my keys. I figured ok, maybe this guy is a little more knowledgeable and they turned the problem over to him. So he proceeds to take my keys and drive my car into the shop. Being very wary now, I peer inside trying to get a look at the stuff they were doing. Mark hooks a scantool up under my dash and pulls the codes. He rights down 'P0170' Fuel Trim Malfunction Bank 1 and 'P0125' Insufficient Temp for Closed Loop. He then says "the first one's a bad O2 sensor for sure, and the second one I'm not sure what it means, but I think if you fix the first, the second will go away. With that he hands me my keys. I'm like....WTF?!?!?!?
I didn't know how to argue with him technically, but at the very least LOGIC seemed like it would do in this scenario. I explained that I had no problems with my LOW MILEAGE car before I brought it there and now all of a sudden I have 2 SES lights, a bad O2 sensor, and a weird wobble/metallic noise? I mentioned that I had a high idle not FIVE BLOCKS after initially taking back the car, and that I brought it back and Keith had fashioned the "adapter" and adjusted my BISS. I asked him if the BISS being off could have done caused this, and that I was informed the idle screw should not have been played with so carelessly without a scantool or ecu groundout. He said "that's not true who told you that?" I could NOT believe what I was hearing. I said "you mean to tell me it's ok to just put a screwdriver to the BISS while the motor's running and twist away?". "Absolutely, don't believe everything you read or hear." I was flabbergasted. He had basically spit on the entire online DSM community with that comment. Then I asked about the wobble-metal noise on decel. "You have a SPEC clutch right? Yeah that's normal. Why do you think they're sold so cheap. We have a Subaru with one in it. Same thing." I commented how nobody else I've heard of having a SPEC has complained about these symptoms. He just shrugged me off.
So here's a guy, who did NOT even drive the car to confirm or analyze the decel sound, and placed the sole blame of my problems on my "cheap" SPEC clutch and broken O2 sensor. Thanks buddy, GREAT customer care you practice.
I'm tired of writing and I'm sure if you've read up to this point you're probably tired of hearing my story, so here is the final gist of things. After my friend who is A LOT more mechanically knowledgable than me (he is one of the moderaters over at TCCA and SHOforums) was nice enough to drive down to Turbotrix from NYC to argue with Mark, I was still denied any type of secondary service. He finally conceded to say "How about this. We'll send your car to Brad Benson Mitsubishi and let them look at it. If your problems are due to our fault, we'll pay for it. If it's not, you foot the bill". We commented how he probably has relations with this dealer and it would be a biased diagnosis. He said no, "They hate us because we void their warranty. They won't give a biased diagnosis in our favor trust me." Another lie, as I discovered Brad Benson Mitsubishi is actually OFFERING TURBOTRIX STAGED EVO UPGRADES as dealer backed options with new Evolutions.
Link here:
http://www.forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=174994
The same SHO buddy of mine, spent the entire night helping me put in a new O2 we got from Autozone and checking for loose driveline parts that might be responsible for the wobble-metallic noise. O2 replacement was a success, but did not solve any of my idle issues (not surprised). Everything in the driveline seemed fine, so we suspect it's something to do with the clutch and flywheel assembly. Without a tranny jack though, we couldn't drop the transmission to confirm this. I realize this was a horrendously long post and if you read up to here thank you for your patience and attention. If I was able to convince even ONE person to think twice before trusting this shop with their car, then I have already succeeded.
-Mike
A week passed by and my appointment day had come. Suffering from a slipping clutch for the past several weeks, I was looking forward to finally being able to unleash the full potential of my DSM again. Needless to say I woke up bright and early filled with excitement. I originally made the appointment for 9am, but manhattan and tunnel traffic was especially horrendous that day and I didn't arrive at their shop until 10:30. When I got there, I asked if me being late would impact them being able to deliver my car completed on time at the end of the day as promised. Mike said it was not a problem, snagged my keys, and my car was in the shop and on the lift within 20-30 mins. Wow, I thought to myself, another big + on the customer service.
The late afternoon rolled around and I stopped by the shop with about an hour remaining on my install. I hung out in the waiting area, read some magazines, and was pretty much psyched to get my car back with a functional clutch. Here's where things got interesting. As I was goofing off and killing time, a customer walks in. I overheard him complaining to Mike about how his second gear "grinds now" and that they need to look at the work they did on his car. Some more arguing ensued, but I drowned it out thinking nothing of it initially and went about my business. The customer then sat down as well. Myself growing tired of the reading selection, I decided to strike up a friendly conversation. Long story short, this guy whose name I didn't catch was also a pround 2G owner ('99 GST if I remember). He had his clutch and clutch fork replaced the week prior and was living a nightmare ever since. Because I do not know the full details of his situation I will not remark on he said/she said heresay. Suffice it to say though, he put a very big lump in my stomach. He warned me to pop the hood and inspect the contents, test drive the car as thoroughly as possible, and make sure everything was right before I even thought of embarking on my journey home. I did mention home was over an hour away in NYC to him, which made him stress the test driving part even further.
By now, my mood had gone from jittery and excited to anxious and somewhat paranoid. At the same time though, I kept telling myself that this is only one customer and most likely an isolated incident. Afterall, this shop churns out high horsepower cars and 9 second EVOs right? Clutch jobs to them are like rudimentary physics to Einstein. Walk in the park. It was probably just a big misunderstanding. I had nothing to worry about. Or did I.... :rolleyes:
When one of the guys finally came around to hand me my keys, I made sure to ask, "So everything went ok? Did you guys take it for a spin and test the car out?". I got an apathetic nod. After taking my keys, one of the guys (Keith) who I saw through the shop window physically sitting in the driver seat tinkering with the gearbox also walked in. I also asked him how the install went, and we proceeded to have a conversation about how 2Gs are prone to crankwalk and shoot the shit about DSMs a bit. He mentioned to me that the TOB that came with the SPEC was really funky looking and did not in any way resemble the OEM one that came out of the car. Not being very mechanically inclined personally, I kind of looked at him like he had 3 heads when he said that and could only ask "oh...is that a bad thing?" He said it was not good or bad, that it was just different looking is all.
Finger crossed and saying a silent prayer, I walked out to the lot and got in my car. The first thing I noticed was the gears became INCREDIBLY stiff. None of them grinded, but in a stopped position with clutch in, I had to throw a little of my weight into the shifter to make them go in. Immediately I ran inside to notify Keith. He came outside and checked them out, took the car for a drive with me in the passenger seat, and after a few blocks commented how they weren't bad compared to what they were 'before'. I'm thinking to myself, my car has only 30 some odd thousand miles on its odometer and drove like mint (other than the clutch slippiage) when I brought it in here. What the hell did he mean it's actually better than before? Turns out what he meant was after they got the clutch on, for some reason or other the shifter was so stiff they needed the force of both hands and leg leverage to get it to go into gear. Ok, so I guess it's probably a little stiff after putting together everything and just needs time to free itself up again. Fair enough explanation. I thanked him for his help and heeding the other customer's advice, I proceeded to drive up and down the roads surrounding the shop. Sure enough the gears began freeing up and the car appeared to operate normally. With my fears almost completely erased, I breathed a sigh of relief and headed toward the main road that lead to the highway. On the main road, there were many stoplights and I noticed at the second or third one that my idle had risen and stayed at a steady 1200RPMs. Again, I immediately rushed back to the shop. Keith came out again and after looking around under the hood, said the recirculation kit on my HKS SSQV was to blame. He said the adapter nozzle that connected the tube to the intake dump was too flimsy and must be the culprit. Hmm, I've had this same BOV for over a year now with not a single problem and mysteriously THIS was to blame? Sounded wrong, but who was I to argue with the "specialist". He cut the adapter to fit inside the hose instead of around it and clamped the hose around the newly made adapter. I forgot to mention that when I first mentioned the high idle, prior to pointing his finger at the SSQV recric, HE TOOK A SCREWDRIVER TO THE BISS SCREW AND BOTTOMED IT OUT! At that time I had no idea you could/should not touch the BISS without a scantool or ecu groundout, it wasn't until I got home with my idle problems still occuring and searching the forums that I realzied what a royal fuck up that was on his part.
On the highway parts of the drive home, I noticed a very distinct wobbling/metal-on-metal noise coming from the bottom region of the vehicle. It would happen only on a heavy decel (ie. 70 to 60 engine breaking) and if I clutched in, blipped the gas or threw the car in neutral, the sound would go away. At this point it was almost 9pm, and with nobody answering the phone at Turbotrix, I didn't want to chance driving back and finding a closed shop. So instead I drove home and figured I would call in the morning, speak to Keith, and he'll arrange a time for me to go back. Next day came, after getting in touch with Keith, he said it'd be no problem for me to bring the car in the following Friday to have another look at the idle, and told me that sound I was hearing on decel was 'normal'. "It's your driveline noise resonating through your bellhousing. Most heavy duty clutches will do that, it's nothing to worry about." Again, I was speechless. Nobody and none of the reviews I read listed any of these type of symptoms about SPEC clutches. But I figured whatever, it'll get resolved when I go back.
During the week, because he bottomed out my idle screw, my car reacted all kinds of funny. I even threw an SES light. After searching through the forums I realized the problem causing the original high idle was probably still present and things had just gotten compoundedly worse by him messing with my BISS screw. Praying and hoping they honor their worksmanship, the next Friday could not have come quicker. I drove back down to Turbotrix bright and early hoping to get all my issues resolved. Instead, all I got was grief. First off, after speaking to Mike and Keith, I was hoping either one of them would ask me for the keys and take the car out back. Instead, some other guy Mark (who was not present that day when I had my clutch installed) asks me for my keys. I figured ok, maybe this guy is a little more knowledgeable and they turned the problem over to him. So he proceeds to take my keys and drive my car into the shop. Being very wary now, I peer inside trying to get a look at the stuff they were doing. Mark hooks a scantool up under my dash and pulls the codes. He rights down 'P0170' Fuel Trim Malfunction Bank 1 and 'P0125' Insufficient Temp for Closed Loop. He then says "the first one's a bad O2 sensor for sure, and the second one I'm not sure what it means, but I think if you fix the first, the second will go away. With that he hands me my keys. I'm like....WTF?!?!?!?
I didn't know how to argue with him technically, but at the very least LOGIC seemed like it would do in this scenario. I explained that I had no problems with my LOW MILEAGE car before I brought it there and now all of a sudden I have 2 SES lights, a bad O2 sensor, and a weird wobble/metallic noise? I mentioned that I had a high idle not FIVE BLOCKS after initially taking back the car, and that I brought it back and Keith had fashioned the "adapter" and adjusted my BISS. I asked him if the BISS being off could have done caused this, and that I was informed the idle screw should not have been played with so carelessly without a scantool or ecu groundout. He said "that's not true who told you that?" I could NOT believe what I was hearing. I said "you mean to tell me it's ok to just put a screwdriver to the BISS while the motor's running and twist away?". "Absolutely, don't believe everything you read or hear." I was flabbergasted. He had basically spit on the entire online DSM community with that comment. Then I asked about the wobble-metal noise on decel. "You have a SPEC clutch right? Yeah that's normal. Why do you think they're sold so cheap. We have a Subaru with one in it. Same thing." I commented how nobody else I've heard of having a SPEC has complained about these symptoms. He just shrugged me off.
So here's a guy, who did NOT even drive the car to confirm or analyze the decel sound, and placed the sole blame of my problems on my "cheap" SPEC clutch and broken O2 sensor. Thanks buddy, GREAT customer care you practice.
I'm tired of writing and I'm sure if you've read up to this point you're probably tired of hearing my story, so here is the final gist of things. After my friend who is A LOT more mechanically knowledgable than me (he is one of the moderaters over at TCCA and SHOforums) was nice enough to drive down to Turbotrix from NYC to argue with Mark, I was still denied any type of secondary service. He finally conceded to say "How about this. We'll send your car to Brad Benson Mitsubishi and let them look at it. If your problems are due to our fault, we'll pay for it. If it's not, you foot the bill". We commented how he probably has relations with this dealer and it would be a biased diagnosis. He said no, "They hate us because we void their warranty. They won't give a biased diagnosis in our favor trust me." Another lie, as I discovered Brad Benson Mitsubishi is actually OFFERING TURBOTRIX STAGED EVO UPGRADES as dealer backed options with new Evolutions.
Link here:
http://www.forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=174994
The same SHO buddy of mine, spent the entire night helping me put in a new O2 we got from Autozone and checking for loose driveline parts that might be responsible for the wobble-metallic noise. O2 replacement was a success, but did not solve any of my idle issues (not surprised). Everything in the driveline seemed fine, so we suspect it's something to do with the clutch and flywheel assembly. Without a tranny jack though, we couldn't drop the transmission to confirm this. I realize this was a horrendously long post and if you read up to here thank you for your patience and attention. If I was able to convince even ONE person to think twice before trusting this shop with their car, then I have already succeeded.
-Mike