IPT trans questions

[rustynotch]

Whos runnin them and what kinda power and setups are they behind. Are there any other built auto transmision makers for dsm's thanks in advance for your info.

[nano]

Russ Cox ran 10s at about 140, and kiggly I belive is also in the 10s with IPTs kit. Kiggly dynoed around 500whp from what I remember. Level ten also rebuilds these trannies. I'm sure many others can rebuild these trannies with some upgrades. I've seen many use the alto kits. But IMO IPT has the best upgrades for our trannies.

[The_EE]

I have their reworked valve body w/ shift kit and their restalled converter on the way. I will give you more info when it arrives and I can try it out. I might be purchasing their performance rebuild kit as well, if I can find someone to rebuild my transmission in SoCal for a reasonable price.

[kiggly]

Just to complete this with real information:

Russ' best was a 9.70 at 139mph on an IPT-built trans. I know he ran 144mph on a different pass, but may have even run a little bit faster that I don't know about.

I work with IPT on several things, but I build my own transmissions (mostly out of convenience and because I'm familiar with all of it). IPT knows everything that is in my transmission and we share information in hopes of growing the dsm AT's capabilities. There is one large upgrade I developed at John's suggestion that will be a huge help in power holding on AT's. I'm hoping with this the trans will live well in the 800whp range and into the 8's or better.

Also, my best time with the AT is a 9.612 at 141.96mph. This was with several problems that were found and will be fixed for the first times out this year. The best dyno number I kicked out with the AT was 610whp several years ago (before the now undone 5-speed swap). This was with 1200cc injectors at fairly high injector duty cycles. The current combo has 1600cc injectors nearly maxed out. I'll make it to the dyno sometime this year, but I'm more interested in ET's.

Kevin

[92awdgsx]

Just to complete this with real information:

Russ' best was a 9.70 at 139mph on an IPT-built trans. I know he ran 144mph on a different pass, but may have even run a little bit faster that I don't know about.

I work with IPT on several things, but I build my own transmissions (mostly out of convenience and because I'm familiar with all of it). IPT knows everything that is in my transmission and we share information in hopes of growing the dsm AT's capabilities. There is one large upgrade I developed at John's suggestion that will be a huge help in power holding on AT's. I'm hoping with this the trans will live well in the 800whp range and into the 8's or better.

Also, my best time with the AT is a 9.612 at 141.96mph. This was with several problems that were found and will be fixed for the first times out this year. The best dyno number I kicked out with the AT was 610whp several years ago (before the now undone 5-speed swap). This was with 1200cc injectors at fairly high injector duty cycles. The current combo has 1600cc injectors nearly maxed out. I'll make it to the dyno sometime this year, but I'm more interested in ET's.

Kevin


I also build my own trannys because of the same reason as Kiggly, and with the help of his newly developed peice will be trying to get a car that dynoed at 1025 awhp with a 5 speed, into the 7's with an auto. That is the plan for this year, we shall see what happens. Also, I would stay away from Level 10.

[kiggly]

Just as a point to add for a comparison between 5-speed and AT dyno numbers, I ran the same engine combo with each.

With the auto it made 531whp, no nitrous.

With the 5-speed it made 669whp, no nitrous.

I expect that 1025whp with the 5-speed will be somewhere in the 800-850whp range with the auto. I'm very interested to hear what numbers it makes to the rollers though. Whatever it makes, if the combo works it will be faster with the auto.

Kevin

[Lee's GSX]

The guys at IPT are a great group of people, John can set you up with a trans that can hold up to about what ever you can through at it. Or he can get you the parts to build your own if your that kind of person. But i will add that a factory (a good working) trans with a few bolt ons, shift kit, converter,push button shifter. Can get you pretty far, I've ran plenty of 13s, 12s, 11s down to a best of 10.flat! Over a 6month time with no internal work on the same stock trans, so a built one should do the job. I'd say give them a call, John can put you in the right direction either way.

[92awdgsx]

Just as a point to add for a comparison between 5-speed and AT dyno numbers, I ran the same engine combo with each.

With the auto it made 531whp, no nitrous.

With the 5-speed it made 669whp, no nitrous.

I expect that 1025whp with the 5-speed will be somewhere in the 800-850whp range with the auto. I'm very interested to hear what numbers it makes to the rollers though. Whatever it makes, if the combo works it will be faster with the auto.

Kevin

Those are about the numbers I was guessing it would be with the auto. I'll let you know what the numbers are when we do it.

[nano]

Just as a point to add for a comparison between 5-speed and AT dyno numbers, I ran the same engine combo with each.

With the auto it made 531whp, no nitrous.

With the 5-speed it made 669whp, no nitrous.

I expect that 1025whp with the 5-speed will be somewhere in the 800-850whp range with the auto. I'm very interested to hear what numbers it makes to the rollers though. Whatever it makes, if the combo works it will be faster with the auto.

Kevin

I was curious how is it possible to have a 20% loss from the auto? Wouldn't 138HP of loss end up in a huge amount of heat to have to desipate? That just seems like too much to be right to me. Am I missing something?

I've been comparing Gtech pro comp dyno graphs with my buddy's similarly modded manual. With the same turbo, and mods, and airflow in the past his always trapped about 3mph higher. Now with both have the same turbos, and airflow, and his gtech dyno graphs show 30 to 35WHP higher. Overall I seem to have 9 to 10% more loss then him. It may not comapare to real dyno reaings, but it's consistant. For comparison it reads 130WHP on a fully stock 2g AWD auto.

I have tuned his car for years with different setups, and this always seems to be around the same difference. When he had a Big 16G, and I had a FP T28. Both flowing 35lbs/min. Gtech read 260WHP for him, and 240WHP for my auto. He traped 108, I traped 105. Now both with PTE 50rim, at 46lbs/min. The graph shows him 330WHP for him, and 296WHP for me. Is there more of a percentage loss at higher power levels?

[kiggly]

Yup, 20% loss is a huge amount of energy to absorb somewhere. I was having some problems with the converter staying full and seeing over 100F tranny oil temp rise during a pass. Now, that's not just heating the 11qts fluid, but also the remaining near-200#'s of transmission and converter. The power losses are also a little bigger with a really high stall converter.

I was keeping track of dyno sheets from lots of AT's and MT's for a long time. I lost the excel file in a computer crash, but I remember the result was a little more than 15% loss on-average for the AT compared to the MT. This was comparing torque to the wheels and normalizing it by absolute manifold pressure (avg MT was about 9ft-lb/psia pressure, avg AT was about 7.7ft-lb/psia pressure).

Kevin

[w1kk3d]

wow... so what are you doing that will make more power in an A/T than an M/T?
Or is that top-secret for now :P

[nano]

I don't think it's top secret. But I'm not going to mention it just in case. Just think of what the weakest link is, and that's what they fixed.

[kiggly]

Nothing at all secret about the parts. Its a front clutch with a larger piston so it has more clamp load and holds more torque. More info is here: http://kigglyracing.com/ and pictures of the first run of parts are here: http://kigglyracing.com/front_clutch/front_clutch.htm

Kevin

[The_EE]

Nothing at all secret about the parts. Its a front clutch with a larger piston so it has more clamp load and holds more torque. More info is here: http://kigglyracing.com/ and pictures of the first run of parts are here: http://kigglyracing.com/front_clutch/front_clutch.htm

Kevin

Which is my next planned upgrade once I get my new bottom end and DSMlink.

[hellcat77]

Nothing at all secret about the parts. Its a front clutch with a larger piston so it has more clamp load and holds more torque. More info is here: http://kigglyracing.com/ and pictures of the first run of parts are here: http://kigglyracing.com/front_clutch/front_clutch.htm

Kevin

Are you, yourself, custom machining these new front clutch pistons or?

Are you or anyone else selling them?

How much work is it to install one?

Do you have to tear the whole tranny down or?

Many Thanks!

Howie

[w1kk3d]

Nothing at all secret about the parts. Its a front clutch with a larger piston so it has more clamp load and holds more torque. More info is here: http://kigglyracing.com/ and pictures of the first run of parts are here: http://kigglyracing.com/front_clutch/front_clutch.htm

Kevin


Badassery! :cool:
Any guesstimate on price yet?

[kiggly]

I reverse-engineered the OEM part, looked over the package space and engineered this part to fit in its place. This also includes a bunch of analysis/FEA work to get the stress levels acceptable in the basket. I do not do the machining on these parts, but it is done by a local machinist who is the best I've ever met.

Installing one isn't a ton of work, but you have to have the trans torn down to do it. The only modification inside the trans is grinding a slight amount of clearance on the back of the pump (only have to take off about 0.020" on some high spots). The basket is slightly longer than the OEM unit - it needed to grow to fit 5 frictions and also keep stress levels in check.

These are available through IPT installed in a transmission. If you just want the unit, it could also be bought through IPT, or I can sell you a kit for $750. The kit includes what is shown in the pictures. Its not cheap, but this was absolutely not a cheap part to make.

Thanks for the interest,

Kevin