My set-up: 2g AWD, 2.3 stroker, evoIII, A/T

[LatDSM]

Just for the record and to piss off Asmodeus, here is a list of what all is getting put on my car today and for the next week or so. Or better yet, what mods will be on the car once this build is over:

Engine 2.3 stroker with
Wiseco +0.02” pistons
Pauter rods
ARP rod bolts
Clevite bearings
Remaned 4g64 crank
Apex'i filter
Injen intake to turbo
MHI EVOIII 16G turbo
MHI EVOIII exhaust manifold
Apex'i N1 3" Turbo-back
OBX Intercooler 455x257x63,5
short route intercooler piping
Greddy Type-S by-pass
Greddy 8S spark plugs
Walbro 255lph
PTE 580cc injectors
Prothane motor mounts
Reworked, ported and polished 2g head

For tuning and control
Greddy Profec-B boost controller
Apex'i AFC Neo
Apex'i FPR
Greddy boost gauge
Wideband 02 sensor
A/T temp gauge
Apex'i full auto turbo timer

Freshly rebuilt tranny with
IPT Performance Transmission rebuild kit
IPT trans cooler
IPT High Stall torque convertor
TransLab shift-kit

suspension and brakes will stay as they were
H&R springs
Koni adjustables
PCP front strut bar
Brembo drilled/slotted rotors
Ferrodo sport brake pads

So there :banana:

[bluemike819]

Nice.....did you win the lottery?

[LatDSM]

Nice.....did you win the lottery?

Nah, just buying parts over the summer, storing everything on a shelf.

That means - I have not calculated the total cost and I don't want to know :wall: because I'm sure it will make me want to :puke:

[11secdsm]

Curious as to why you're going with such a small turbo on a stroker. The turbo is basically going to have an on/off switch in terms of boost. Is it temporary or are you sticking with that?

[LatDSM]

Curious as to why you're going with such a small turbo on a stroker. The turbo is basically going to have an on/off switch in terms of boost. Is it temporary or are you sticking with that?

1) Streetability in the city.

2) spool time ;)

3) Auto trans means I want as much torque and power as low as possible and as fast as possible. Extention of power band via cam gears and cams will come later once all the bugs with the set-up are worked out and tuned in.


P.S. and honestly - who has ever gone with a bigger turbo and sticked to it, never wanting more? :huh:

[Turboeagletalon]

where's the pictures

[Djwired]

your going to love the trans set up, its going to make your car feel sooo much faster especially with a launch that'll make u spin all four now :)
i have same mods... but stock motor and just a evo3 16g... tuned.. i cut 1.6 60 foots with my auto, enjoy

[Turboeagletalon]

where's the pictures

[nukefission]

It will definitely by a punchy setup. Good luck with it.

[LatDSM]

Forgot to add engine wise:
B/S removal
Lightweight pulleys

[LatDSM]

used to look like this

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_images/members/duke1.jpg

Brakes being set-up
http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/20052006006.jpg

FMIC:
http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1000375.jpg

Engine internals:
http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/9_1.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/9_4.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/9_3.jpg

This is what it could look like
http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/dukeg2_030.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/dukeg2_016.jpg

More pictures to follow at some point in time :D

[Podins]

:cool: You will be LAT DRAG monster!
My timi will come too, soon.
Watch out from me!

[fastasleep]

An Evo3 on a 2.3 makes me cry.

[Steeltwo]

An Evo3 on a 2.3 makes me cry.
agreed

that is too much engine for the evo3.

but it will spool like a MF.

[LatDSM]

but it will spool like a MF.

which is also the point of the whole exercise. And how many on here are actually running such a set-up? Should be interesting.... :banana:

[Quick Shot xMLx]

Idk seems a bit like a waste of all that hard work. Should've just kept the T25:rolleyes:

[Steeltwo]

Idk seems a bit like a waste of all that hard work. Should've just kept the T25:rolleyes:
that thing would spool at 500rpms.

it'd probly be like driving a n/a car.

[LatDSM]

that thing would spool at 500rpms.

it'd probly be like driving a n/a car.

:burnout:

I'm pretty sure it will not fully spool by 500rpms ;) I'd say more like 2500-3000rpm

[TalonTsi97]

I like the setup but i wouldnt run less then a 20g on that car, and for all the money involved why dont you get dsmlink? Keep us updated curious to see how your project turns out

[Stephen]

I don't get what you guys are griping about with him starting with a 16g. It isn't like it's an expensive turbo that you would feel bad tossing when he wants to upgrade and if I had a budget I'd defiantely work the engine and go with a smaller turbo before I upgraded. At that point I would hook my friend up who needed a 16g cheap or sell it here.

Also if you have never ever driven an automatic dsm you probaly not understand what Latdsm is getting at anyway.

[Asmodeus]

:burnout:

I'm pretty sure it will not fully spool by 500rpms ;) I'd say more like 2500-3000rpm

I love ya man... but you are out of your fucking :tree:
:rolleyes:

A: You did not address the cam issue.
FYI stroker motors like a bigger cam than you can physically put in it.
280's. FP3's... comp makes some just for this engine...
You are pissing over 50whp down the toilet.
Easy.
B: EvoIII would be like putting a 9b on a built 2.0l
A .57 trim bb turbo with a stage 3 turbine housing spools 25psi by 2800 rpm on 2.0l with comp 201's. 1mm o/s valves and 9-1 ross's ... with a race core front mount to pressurize as well...
Read what I just said one more time.
and again...

A small wet bearing 50 trim will be boost on tap on a 2.3l
You have no idea how much that thing breathes.
You are going to have SERIOUS boost control problems on the 16g.


I agree with Stephen, as far as starting off. But the 16g is not your turbo.
Run your stock turbo on break in. Then buy a 50 trim.

[turbolover]

Looks like a nice setup man. You could always go bigger, I'm also curious to see how that evo3 will do on a 2.3...

[LatDSM]

A: You did not address the cam issue.
FYI stroker motors like a bigger cam than you can physically put in it.
280's. FP3's... comp makes some just for this engine...
You are pissing over 50whp down the toilet.
Easy.

B: EvoIII would be like putting a 9b on a built 2.0l
A .57 trim bb turbo with a stage 3 turbine housing spools 25psi by 2800 rpm on 2.0l with comp 201's. 1mm o/s valves and 9-1 ross's ... with a race core front mount to pressurize as well...

....

You are going to have SERIOUS boost control problems on the 16g.


B is the reason for not addressing A. I had cams, cam gears in the works but scratched that. Why? To limit power potential and put a flow bottleneck that I can easily address at any point in time after the build up and before the turbo.

Limited intake = limited exhaust = helps keep boost under control.


P.S. The t25 is toast anyway, and a few guys locally are already http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_images/emoticons/all/siekala.gif over the potential to buy the evo3 off me.

P.S.S. originally I did not intend to rebuild the engine yet, 150k miles is what forced me into doing the engine as well and there is no point in building a 2.0 if the 2.3 will cost more or less the same and you need torque for your auto anyway.

[twack]

I got an auto and an evo 3 i wouldnt do it personally but i think its an awsome idea and cant wait till you got some results, should post a vid of your insta boost

[Steeltwo]

:burnout:

I'm pretty sure it will not fully spool by 500rpms ;) I'd say more like 2500-3000rpmi was talking about the t25

the 16g spools at 3k on normal 2L cars.

you're going to see a much better spool that 3k, as long as you do the setup correctly.

[Sleeper7]

Yea, you'll have all the low end you need. But absolutely no top end. People outflow the evo16g on a 2L at 5.5K rpms on the right setup (i did). I know you'll most likely end up going bigger but don't be upset if we say i told ya so!

Good luck with the rebuild. Should be interesting

[LatDSM]

Yea, you'll have all the low end you need. But absolutely no top end. People outflow the evo16g on a 2L at 5.5K rpms on the right setup (i did). I know you'll most likely end up going bigger but don't be upset if we say i told ya so!

Good luck with the rebuild. Should be interesting

Care to elaborate on your set-up? Was that as previously indicated by Asmo with cams?

I can only once more re-iterate that I'm not doing cams in order to restrict the flow going to the turbo.

[Asmodeus]

The turbine housing on the eIII16g is that of the 14b.
Thats what determines how quick it spools, and where it begins over spinning itself to death. By moving to a more modern and larger turbine... you will have a turbo capable of more power... and one that will stay within its efficiency range.

Cams will EXTEND its power band, not kill it.
Again... stroker motors are built because of the lungs those fuckers have...
They take BIG deep breaths... not increasing the duration of the intake cam would be like trying to run a marathon breathing thru a straw.

They make cams especially for the stroker motors.
I was going to find them and link them.
but... I'm feeling a little lazy. :o

Basically its free horsepower your throwing away.
HP that you could be making with the motor, and less boost Mr. conservative. :P

No matter what you do with the intake or exhaust, even if you leave it alone... the 2.3 is going to barf out enough exhaust to overwhelm whatever boost control your implementing. Short of an EX WG and an open dump.
I'm not nitpicking you. I'm trying to help.

We ran an evo III on the same motor I mentioned about the BB 50 trim.
With a line straight from the WGA to a boost source... (lowest boost possible)
It creeped to 18psi +
On a 2.0l

I don't know what else to say to you?
:confused:
Except 16g isn't your turbo.
:wall:

[LatDSM]

So it'll creep :D I guess I have the internals to cope with 18psi ;) don' t you?

Its not like I chose stroker +eIII, first I chose eIII for my 2l, opening the 2l I noticed I need to rebuild and hence the 2.3 came to be :)

I still think the flow will be conservative. Very restrictive for the potential (I admit). But thats the whole point - knowing that there is so much more potential to be unleashed by a few simple mods :)

[Chicago_DSM]

So it'll creep :D I guess I have the internals to cope with 18psi ;) don' t you?

Its not like I chose stroker +eIII, first I chose eIII for my 2l, opening the 2l I noticed I need to rebuild and hence the 2.3 came to be :)

I still think the flow will be conservative. Very restrictive for the potential (I admit). But thats the whole point - knowing that there is so much more potential to be unleashed by a few simple mods :)

I think you should listen to Asmo ha....A 16g is not a turbo for a 2.3 stroker...

You will be spinning your tires like no other with that much low end torque....Boost will come on like a T25, and altho this sounds attractive to you, you need a much bigger turbo to take advantage of this....If I were you, Id run a 50trim which with the longer stroke will behave like a 16g....You will have boost coming on in the 3k range, and have the top end coming from the better flowing turbine housing....

The auto mods are a great idea...Djwired runs the same setup as you, and you will never see a more consistent car than his...

[Quick Shot xMLx]

He has AWD I doubt he'll be spinning anything. Sounds like he has is mind made up already so just leave him alone. When he realizes how he got almost zero gains he'll be back on here;)

[Chicago_DSM]

He has AWD I doubt he'll be spinning anything. Sounds like he has is mind made up already so just leave him alone. When he realizes how he got almost zero gains he'll be back on here;)

Thats where your wrong ha....I spin all 4 with an evoIII setup and a good launch, and djwired spins bad as well with a powerful launch on his auto 2g....With 300-320+lb ft of torque coming on before/at 3k, you can bet there will be some tire roasting

[Quick Shot xMLx]

That's were I just don't understand. I have similar torque going through 2 wheels instead of four and there is minimal tire roasting if any at some points. Maybe you guys should try to upgrade from the stock like 205 tires.

[Chicago_DSM]

That's were I just don't understand. I have similar torque going through 2 wheels instead of four and there is minimal tire roasting if any at some points. Maybe you guys should try to upgrade from the stock like 205 tires.

Im overexaggerating by using the word 'tire roasting'....No doubt there will be a spin tho, and I want him to be aware of that

[Asmodeus]

Thats it...
Where's sidewinder AKA K_Mans_Tsi...
:rolleyes:
On a ported and clipped s16g he was coming out of the hole sideways.
All four on fire... not just spinning... rolling off...
He almost pinched a guy at the track against the rail who was standing beside him.
And as far as barely spinning 2?
:confused:
Are you retarded?
I roll them off 1-3rd
Heavy steel 40lb rims, w/summer tires in 215?
WITH A 14B.

EVEN from a roll in 2nd or third, when it hits full boost it roasts the tires off.

The problem isn't with what we're doing.
Its what you seem to not be doing... which is make any power.
:rolleyes:

As everyone else I know has the problems we mentioned with the same setup.
Except you.

[LatDSM]

You will be spinning your tires like no other with that much low end torque....Boost will come on like a T25, and altho this sounds attractive to you, you need a much bigger turbo to take advantage of this....If I were you, Id run a 50trim which with the longer stroke will behave like a 16g....You will have boost coming on in the 3k range, and have the top end coming from the better flowing turbine housing....

The auto mods are a great idea...Djwired runs the same setup as you, and you will never see a more consistent car than his...

1) Low-end torque for city street usage - yep thats where I want to be. And definately I will be spinning tires, since I was already. Lightweight wheels rock :D Just have to learn not to launch from every light.

2) I guess some of you have missed the main part. Parts listed are not a wish-list or a to-do-list. All parts are bought and paid for and within the mechanics grasp to be put on in the fashion recommended.

Taking from your advice I have already indicated to some of my members that the EvoIII might be up for sale and they are already drooling.

But I still want to see what it behaves like, because that is experience I will be able to share with the community before upgrading to a bigger turbo and injectors :D

[twack]

More power to ya for coming up with something and sticking to it

[Quick Shot xMLx]

Asmodeus are you talking to me or someone else?

[Asmodeus]

That's were I just don't understand. I have similar torque going through 2 wheels instead of four and there is minimal tire roasting if any at some points. Maybe you guys should try to upgrade from the stock like 205 tires.

My outrage was in response to this.
I just realized you drive a Mustang.
Nevermind.

You just don't understand.
Those things come out of the hole well.
Try coming out in my car like you do in yours and you'll be going
6 mph and the speedo will read 115
If I come off it medium-hardish... I will sit and spin 1-4th.
And have to pull over for 15 min to regain the ability to change gears due to
molten clutch.

You're comparing apples to pluto.

Lat, I wish you good luck in all you do.
Can't wait to see her when she's done... and I want a video of one of your launches. At the end, I'll expect to see you pop out of the car and go "Asmo... you were right... this is retarded. I need a 50 trim"
:P

[Quick Shot xMLx]

Oh ok understood:cool:

Trust me I know the problems a FWD car can be. Even stock my GST with those bald stock size tires sometimes would spin a bit and I imagine that it gets much worst with added power. Hell my GT at the track was having a lot of difficulty due to no prep. At least I have LSD;)

[Die-Civic-Die]

I agree 100% with everyone suggesting a bigger turbo.
There is nothing like big boost on a big turbo...... NOTHING!

[LatDSM]

So, the block is ready to be assembled. Here are pictures of the BS being removed :)

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020622_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020623_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020627_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020628_resized.jpg

The head worked and assembled and ready to be put on

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020625_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020626_resized.jpg

The tranny disembled, rebuilt, assembled and ready to be put on the car...

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020629_resized.jpg

If you pay attention to the last picture you'll also notice the new crankshaft and the Pauter rods in it :D As well as a glimpse of the old piston

[Die-Civic-Die]

Right on!

[Asmodeus]

WOO WOOOOOOO
Fuckin' TOYS!
:D

Mine are on the way...
I'm catchin' up faulker...
You just wait.
;)

[LatDSM]

Stupid mechanic had forgotten he needs to grind the block a bit for the crank to clear. Realised that yesterday afternoon...had to take a few steps back in the assembling process...but...at least its moving forward in the correct direction now :)

[Stephen]

Please listen. Latdsm never ever discounted or denied that he will be getting a larger turbo. I am pretty sure he has the 16g in is possession right now so what is the harm? Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe he is on a budget or doesnt have another grand after having his engine worked and tranny rebuilt? I am sure he will upgrade to a bigger turbo after he wears out the 16g. He is a new dsm'er and it wouldn't hurt for him to learn how the 2.3 will handle life before strapping on a What the FUCK Huge turbo.

Let him strap on the 16g. Let him enjoy having disgusting gut wrenching tourqe and upgrade when he is ready. It's his fucking car, if you are not buying him a huge turbo shut up.

[LatDSM]

I am pretty sure he has the 16g in is possession right now?

Had it stored since July, 2006 :eek: ;) :banana:


Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe he is on a budget or doesnt have another grand after having his engine worked and tranny rebuilt? I am sure he will upgrade to a bigger turbo after he wears out the 16g.

Unfortunately a bigger turbo is not all that would be needed. To support it, I would also need bigger injectors, better tuning control, cams, cam gears. Which is not 1k, its already at 2k ;) So you're right. Plus, more power means more shit braking ever so more often. I want to drive my car as much as possible. :huh:


He is a new dsm'er and it wouldn't hurt for him to learn how the 2.3 will handle life before strapping on a What the FUCK Huge turbo.

Since this is my 2nd DSM being built, I wouldn't consider myself new. Actually, I've been on DSMTalk since April, 2001 when I bought my first car and DSM - TSi AWD 90 ;)
Stupid me forgot the pwd to the other account and can't access the email its bound to :wall:


Let him strap on the 16g. Let him enjoy having disgusting gut wrenching tourqe and upgrade when he is ready. It's his fucking car, if you are not buying him a huge turbo shut up.

Thanks for the support ;)

[Asmodeus]

My point was never to be mean.
I'm just looking out for you Lat.
We were talking about this before it was ever even posted.
Me and Lat are cool.
:)

Anyway, I feel ya on the random machine work thats never ending...
:rolleyes:
I'm in the same position right now. I gave them a simple a simple layout of what needed to be done and the shit getting done doubles every time I pick up the phone. :rolleyes: Its now become my least favorite phone call.
The machine shop... fuck... here we go again... :rolleyes:

I can only imagine in your situation how bad its getting.
For me it was just a boil, .20 over (they wanted to go .40 on the first shot... due to "pitting" that only went maybe 5 thou deep...) :rolleyes:
They drilled out all my galley plugs even tho YOU CANNOT find them in the right thread pitch. They replaced them with 3/8ths and 1/16th... in the part directory BUT THEY ARE METRIC! :mad: Crank needs polished, they wanted to cut it. Over the slightest you couldn't even feel it rough bits on the center journal. I finally explained that the next time they contradicted me I would be returning with a fire arm. Mainly because they don't know the first thing about this engine. You should have heard our conversation about bearings... :rolleyes: And the money just keeps running up.
:(

So yes, I understand.
:wall:

[LatDSM]

Progressing at a snails pace :( and x-mas isn' t helpin either

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020701_resized.jpg

The new pistons and rods

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1020702_resized.jpg

[MiSFiTz]

Any progress yet??

Im curious as to what turbo should be ran in his case? opions i know.....

[LatDSM]

Engine still apart....should be finished in the next week or two...

biggest issue at hand is how to tune it...as there are no dynos that could take on an awd a/t car :(

[LatDSM]

Progress....progresss :) :) :)

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/1_img_1875.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/1_img_1877.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/1_img_1879.jpg

[Dsm Rocket]

Im building the same motor now also. Except i got scat rods, I have the wiseco pistons too. And my car is AWD 5spd. What compression ratio do you have? Unfortunatly i have a smaller turbo then you haha. But the 14b is just going to be my breaking turbo and ill be moving on to bigger after im done building this and collect a few more $$$ haha

We dont have a AWD dyno anywhere near here, closest one is like a 14 hour drive one way. But my buddy has a VC to convert it to FWD for the dyno. He also runs the dyno at his shop. He's got a 2g gsx and thats how he tunes to.

[LatDSM]

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_07032007.jpg

[pimpzachy69]

Keep us posted man! I just got my similar build about 2 months ago. 2.3 stroker and everything. Mine is a 97 a/t.

[Dsm Rocket]

What compression ratio pistons you get? And holy shit i just noticed you got the same rims as i do on my car. :) 18s?

[Die-Civic-Die]

Is that how everyone mounts engines on stands in Europe? :P

[Asmodeus]

Is that how everyone mounts engines on stands in Europe? :P

Fuckin' metric system...
:rolleyes:

[LatDSM]

What compression ratio pistons you get? And holy shit i just noticed you got the same rims as i do on my car. :) 18s?

17s...potholes are the shit around here :(


Is that how everyone mounts engines on stands in Europe? :P


sorry, didn't get what you're getting at...

[Dsm Rocket]

Hey means most of us never seen an engine mounted on a stand like that before. We would usually bolt the stand to where the transmission would bolt to the motor. But you have a different stand for sure.


So what is the compression ratio of the pistons you got anyway. :)

[LatDSM]

So what is the compression ratio of the pistons you got anyway. :)

8.8:1 Wisecos with Pauter rods 5,9" in length

[Dsm Rocket]

Ah right on. I got the 9:1 wisecos, and im getting scat rods.

So you getting any closer now? Any updates.

[TheOracles1gdsm]

Nah, just buying parts over the summer, storing everything on a shelf.

That means - I have not calculated the total cost and I don't want to know :wall: because I'm sure it will make me want to :puke:

Thats how I did mine.

[LatDSM]

The tranny is in...so is the engine...erhm....

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1030147_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1030148_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/p1030149_resized.jpg

[LatDSM]

Turbo and FMIC with short route piping is up for next week, electronics should be started on by end of the week

[LatDSM]

So, moved a bit more forward...

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_14042007.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_14042007001.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_14042007002.jpg

[maui6651]

About time. :)

When's it going to be running?

[LatDSM]

They say monday evening...but...who knows...

there' s a race next sunday that I want to attend...think I'm gona manage to tune the engine and transmission by then? :D

[LatDSM]

Does anybody have any suggestions for the boost levels I should be aiming at? I also want to max out torque, so I gues i'm looking at 11.5-12.0 as the range for the a/f on the wb, right? Comments? Reccomendations?

To recap -

Fuel:
580cc injectors paired with a 255 Walbro

Turbo:
Evo3 16G

Internals:
Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons
Pauter rods

Control:
Apex'i AFC Neo
Apex'i FPR
Greddy Profec-B
Inovative Wideband kit
EGT gauge


I don't want and don't need suggestions for alternative set-up, I want to hear suggestions towards taiming the SOB.

[LatDSM]

I'm thinking 20-24PSi, but I'm not sure the HG will appreciate it, since its stock, moron me forgot about it and am looking forward to blowing it to smitherines but at later stages :D

For now, I need a safe tune to work in the engine, trans and everything in between...and also win a few races at the 1/8th mile (this is why I want torque and not power).

[Sleeper7]

You won't be getting very far with 560's. I'd set it at 10psi if you can run the IDC's up that high. I'd break the motor in on 5-10psi and you might be able to squeeze 15psi off depending.

I had 720's which i maxxed out at 15psi. 95-102 IDC's at 5-7K

You will seriously be overrunning that turbo :wall: You're going to hit a brick wall and 20-24psi will feel exactly like 15psi. :cool: But you know that supposedly

I'd look more towards 11.5 a/f and just advance timing for quicker spool and put the power to the ground quicker

Edit - Just saw you have an AFC..... Good luck and let us know how it turns out

[LatDSM]

You won't be getting very far with 560's. I'd set it at 10psi if you can run the IDC's up that high. I'd break the motor in on 5-10psi and you might be able to squeeze 15psi off depending.

I had 720's which i maxxed out at 15psi. 95-102 IDC's at 5-7K

You will seriously be overrunning that turbo :wall: You're going to hit a brick wall and 20-24psi will feel exactly like 15psi. :cool: But you know that supposedly

I'd look more towards 11.5 a/f and just advance timing for quicker spool and put the power to the ground quicker

Edit - Just saw you have an AFC..... Good luck and let us know how it turns out

did you actually read? :D

1) I said 580cc
2) and how in the world did you max 720 injectors on a 16g Turbo at 15psi????

[Sleeper7]

did you actually read? :D

1) I said 580cc
2) and how in the world did you max 720 injectors on a 16g Turbo at 15psi????

1.560-580 same deal. :rolleyes: :)

2. I'm on a g60 turbo on which i maxed them out. People max out 580's on 2.0L's on evo16g's with efficient setups. Your next buy should be dsmlink.

Dsmlink :

1. Actually know your IDC's
2. Adv. and retard timing and not just playing with fuel
3. Allowing you to run larger injectors.

I do have a set of 880's I'll sell to you. If interested just PM me.

[LatDSM]

I don't want and don't need suggestions for alternative set-up, I want to hear suggestions towards taiming the SOB.

Does this mean anything to you?

[IggyBcool]

I love ya man... but you are out of your fucking :tree:
:rolleyes:

A: You did not address the cam issue.
FYI stroker motors like a bigger cam than you can physically put in it.
280's. FP3's... comp makes some just for this engine...
You are pissing over 50whp down the toilet.
Easy.
B: EvoIII would be like putting a 9b on a built 2.0l
A .57 trim bb turbo with a stage 3 turbine housing spools 25psi by 2800 rpm on 2.0l with comp 201's. 1mm o/s valves and 9-1 ross's ... with a race core front mount to pressurize as well...
Read what I just said one more time.
and again...

A small wet bearing 50 trim will be boost on tap on a 2.3l
You have no idea how much that thing breathes.
You are going to have SERIOUS boost control problems on the 16g.


I agree with Stephen, as far as starting off. But the 16g is not your turbo.
Run your stock turbo on break in. Then buy a 50 trim.


agreed, my buddy has a 2.3 and his sc61 with a stage 5 wheel will make 31 psi in first gear (no 2 step, no anti-lag) Full boost by 33-3400 rpms.

[Sleeper7]

I want to hear suggestions towards taiming the SOB.

If by taming you meant knock control from lack of fuel. Larger injectors and dsmlink were my suggestions ;)

Don't get your panties in a twist because I'm letting you know what to expect. I'm doing you a favor in a field i have first hand experience in.

I'm done posting for now, awaiting results

[LatDSM]

1 extra day of work = radiator, ventilator, radiator hoses, ABS cut-out partly done

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_motors.jpg

+exhaust done

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_izputejs.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_apaksa.jpg

[LatDSM]

No more ABS
http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_abs.jpg

and intercooler short-route piping in the works with a custom made flange before the throttle body to get the correct angle on it.

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_bova_vieta.jpg

[DSMscreamer]

If people are getting 400hp out of E316gs I would think you could get that plus 30% more with the added displacement. I would start with 20psi and watch knock and IDCs. What fuel do you paln on running? That will make a big difference in how much you can get out of those injectors.

[ThingyNess]

Turbochargers are flow-limited independently of the engine displacement, for the most part. A 16g on a 5.0L v8 will still hit the choke limit of the compressor at roughly the same point as on a 2.0L 4 cylinder.

You won't be getting more than 400hp out of the 16g, 2.3L or not.

However, that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It will be fun as hell on the street. A stock SRT-4 is a DOHC 2.4L engine, and it uses a TD04-16g from the factory. It's still a fun car with the boost cranked up.

[LatDSM]

If people are getting 400hp out of E316gs I would think you could get that plus 30% more with the added displacement. I would start with 20psi and watch knock and IDCs. What fuel do you paln on running? That will make a big difference in how much you can get out of those injectors.

I'm leaning towards starting at 16PSi and then working my way up to about 21PSi...which is where I'd like to leave it for the time being...and once that gets boring after a while starting playing witht he adjustables more ;)

[DSMscreamer]

You won't be getting more than 400hp out of the 16g, 2.3L or not.



Is that so? I know of a few people making well over 400whp on the E316G.

[LatDSM]

The SOB fired-up...it actually works :eek:

[scapaldo]

I had a 14b on my 2.4l auto car and it was pointless. Screamed down the 1/4 mile to about 600 feet out then fell on its face. Ran 102mph in the 1/8 and 112 in the quarter.. In other words, start shopping for an upgrade. :D

[scapaldo]

If people are getting 400hp out of E316gs I would think you could get that plus 30% more with the added displacement. I would start with 20psi and watch knock and IDCs. What fuel do you paln on running? That will make a big difference in how much you can get out of those injectors.

Doesnt really work that way, the extra displacment will move the power band, but wont necessarily increase peak hp. The setup I talked about in the last post peaked at 270whp at around 5000rpms. He's also going through an auto so he probably wont see more then 330-340whp.

[Die-Civic-Die]

Right on!

[LatDSM]

Somebody fucked up the timing belt job...and now...we shall see if I still have an engine or not...

however, i did manage to drive around for 1 mile....to test why its so hard to tune and why I have to go in the + on the AFC even though there are bigger injectors and pump...but now I know...its all because of the timing belt problems :(

and it just sucks ass....

[LatDSM]

Hmmm...couldn't keep away from the car...

found what was part of the problem....the BSEK kit wasn't install properly and the part that spins from the oil filter came off and ended-up in the oil pan.

Still pending on what damage was done (hopefully none or minimal) and what else might have gone wrong.

If everything goes well (and this is a smil chance) it might be running in a few days.

[LatDSM]

This is what we found in the oil pan

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_p4080164.jpg

[AeroOrion]

This is what we found in the oil pan

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_p4080164.jpg

I really hope that didn't lunch your oil pump. If you aren't replacing it I would inspect it very carefully.

[LatDSM]

the SOB ripped a whole in the block...good thing is...it was dispenesable metal that was broken...but fuck...

On the positive note, might be running again tonight ;)

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_p4080166.jpg

[LatDSM]

the SOB is running again. Still has its issues (gona open another thread on the most stumbling one), but hell...it runs...and even with the boost off (wg spring boost) feels fairly strong.

Shift kit and tranny rebuild have helped the car considerably (together with the added displacement). Gona try to tune her tomorrow/saturday and see where I can get to :D

[Grimis]

im leaning to go 2.3 as well but some say leave it 2.0.

I like your setup, but im going with a scm6031re, but yeah, hope it works out well (noticed its been awile sence you posted)

[Podins]

im leaning to go 2.3 as well but some say leave it 2.0.

I like your setup, but im going with a scm6031re, but yeah, hope it works out well (noticed its been awile sence you posted)

Thers a new tred- http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177388

[JOEY A]

Do most of you guys understand displacement and matching turbo chargers?


I suggest your vist turbomustang forums(Google it)

And research more on that subject....


I suggest you consider somthign a little bit bigger, your not going to have lag either

Stalled auto=lag killer!


Im inrested on how this car is going to work out, id like to get a ride

[LatDSM]

It runs again!

Fixed all the boost leaks, no leakage for up to 23Psi, even the TB leaks on the shaft seals were fixed ;) so its tighter than a virgin now.

Revs like a champ with every tap of the gas.

Fixiing the leaks however did manage to make it run so rich that it fouled the spark plugs, so its stuttering now as it wants to boost.

Which is normal, I guess :D Gona change the sparkplugs today to another set of standard ones, continue dialling in a rough tune, gone pass inspection, then tune some more, then change to aftermarket one-two step better plugs and might be getting in the ball park of where its fun to drive.

The before boost feel on the auto now is sooo much better compared to when it was a 2liter with the old tranny....

[BaliTSi]

Have you ever considered converting to manual or would you rather stick with auto?

[LatDSM]

sticking with the auto for consistency

[LatDSM]

Yesterday was a good day.

Put down 134miles on the new engine/tranny/everything.

That thing rocks already now with a shit ass tune that keeps fouling plugs :D Got to keep on leaning it out. Looks like I've got the cruise tune dialed in roughly...

now on to the more fun stuff - boost happy place.

And this thing is boost happy...with the BC off (direct WG) went up to almost 14PSi without really pushing it.

With the BC on and minimum settings its been up to 25PSi already. Its a good thing its running pig rich - as in 10.0 - got to lean it out to bring out the power yet.

Tried a few brake-boosted launches with minimal rpm and minimal boost....

I have a biiig smile on my face today :D

[LatDSM]

http://www.402.lv/galerija/albums/KoD2007_1posms/DSC_0180.sized.jpg

http://www.402.lv/galerija/albums/KoD2007_1posms/DSC_0185.sized.jpg

[LatDSM]

the 2gb Eclipse bumper is late on delivery, so to pass inspection had to put this on...

[LatDSM]

http://photos.fotki.lv/photos/12/W0001414/000141321/000014132002_%23_2_%23_bes.jpg

[LatDSM]

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/saani_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/prieksa_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/motors_resized.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_plugins/kig_menu/_imagefiles/cool_resized.jpg

[6bolt95gst]

Your intercooler is mad tall, I wish i could afford half of what you have coming.

[LatDSM]

Still running up miles with the brake in. Up to the almost 400mile mark now on the new engine. still burning oil as it rubs in and brakes in. But getting better.

Its nice to do your own brake in...you can literally feel the car going better and better and better.... :D Starting to feel solid strong now.

Boost is no where near as expected. Its a bit lower than stock, but bearable...with 30% throttle I start spooling at 2.5k rpm, at 3k rpm playing with the throttle allows instant any boost within the pre-set range :D

Haven't been higher than 5k rpm yet. Car and guts don't allow it. Don't want to be risking anything.

[Red1991TSI]

Looking good Lat, keep the updates coming. And the pics of those fine Latvian chicks!

[LatDSM]

Fucking christ....I hate this thing..... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Finally got the mechanics to do a compression test:

From 4-to-1:
9,5 - 9,0 - 8,0 - 4,5

aaarghhhhhhh :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


Head is coming off in the next few days...we'll see where they screwed up this time. :wall:

And the thing was feeling stronger and stronger by the minute....

Oh yeah....over 420miles on the clock. :huh:

[Red1991TSI]

Sorry to hear it Lat, that wasn't the update I was looking for.:(

[AeroOrion]

Fucking christ....I hate this thing..... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Finally got the mechanics to do a compression test:

From 4-to-1:
9,5 - 9,0 - 8,0 - 4,5

aaarghhhhhhh :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


Head is coming off in the next few days...we'll see where they screwed up this time. :wall:

And the thing was feeling stronger and stronger by the minute....

Oh yeah....over 420miles on the clock. :huh:


Ouch Lat, that sucks. I figured it would be misfiring or have starting issues with compression that low in Cyl #1. What kind of break in were you using? It sounds like you have my kind of luck with these things. :(

[LatDSM]

It was sputtering but only at high rpm and high boost (due to fouled plugs), other than that was going great...

it was the oil burning that had me worried, hence forced them to check it

[aquito]

Nice.....did you win the lottery?

lol x2....:banana:

[JOEY A]

Sounds like your shop are dumb fucks, take it some were better were they have better ex with 4Gs and evos...

[16G_tsi_awd]

Sounds like your shop are dumb fucks, take it some were better were they have better ex with 4Gs and evos...

:huh:

[LatDSM]

the thing is - they do have the experience ;) mine is not the only DSM they're building...it was just a lot of careless mistakes with the mechanics changing :( just bad luck.

and there is no point in taking it to another shop that will just say that they were all idiots and redo the whole thing - the bill will kill me. Staying put will force them to honor their warranties and redo everything on their own cost until it burns all fours to the cords and then some on a simple launch

[JOEY A]

Well as long as they honor there work, then thats understandable...

[DSMscreamer]

My opinion. I think soft breakins suck. I also think running a fresh motor pig rich is a big no no. washing down the cylinders with too much fuel is sure to keep the rings from seating. I have always gotten great result by breaking in my motors with high boost and heavy vacuum deacceleration.

[LatDSM]

the motor has been taken apart...all pistons seem to have a 1mm space between them and the walls in which it moves around...

How realistic would it be that in working temperatures the pistons will expand to seat in perfectly?

this would basically explain why all pistons had oil on them...but not why only one cylinder was missing compression.

[LatDSM]

So i'm back to square 1 it seems. At least I've driven it for 420miles, which is 420 times more than the first time it was fired up, which is good.

It seems that the oil on piston factor came from two directions:

1) Too much of a bore on the cylinders. Oil being shot up by the sides. I mean the pistons can be kinked within the cylinder by about 1,5mm. Its really scary. They're gona re-do the sleeves it seems.

2) Possibly some of the work done on the head (valve part), with all the grinding to free up more air-flow, seems to be allowed only on 2.0liter engines. Anything above would cause too much vacuum in the cylinder and seep in unwanted oil.


The target: The target for them now is either of two -> race next saturday and race on the saturday in two weeks.

For them there is only one option -> race next saturday, which should give me enough time to prepare for the race that matters in two weeks :D

Why it matters? because it has a fund of ~2000$ in prize money. I figure theoretically I could take 1st place in my class and one class above and take the overall best time, which would net a total of 1000EUR or ~1250$.

Boy am I living in hopes and dreams :D but thats all I've got - a pile of junk and some hopes and dreams ;)

[Podins]

So i'm back to square 1 it seems. At least I've driven it for 420miles, which is 420 times more than the first time it was fired up, which is good.

It seems that the oil on piston factor came from two directions:

1) Too much of a bore on the cylinders. Oil being shot up by the sides. I mean the pistons can be kinked within the cylinder by about 1,5mm. Its really scary. They're gona re-do the sleeves it seems.

2) Possibly some of the work done on the head (valve part), with all the grinding to free up more air-flow, seems to be allowed only on 2.0liter engines. Anything above would cause too much vacuum in the cylinder and seep in unwanted oil.


The target: The target for them now is either of two -> race next saturday and race on the saturday in two weeks.

For them there is only one option -> race next saturday, which should give me enough time to prepare for the race that matters in two weeks :D

Why it matters? because it has a fund of ~2000$ in prize money. I figure theoretically I could take 1st place in my class and one class above and take the overall best time, which would net a total of 1000EUR or ~1250$.

Boy am I living in hopes and dreams :D but thats all I've got - a pile of junk and some hopes and dreams ;)


Dream on!! :D

[94turbodsm]

God, I'm depressed just reading this.

Good luck with working it out though, I wanna see some numbers when it's all put back together.

[LatDSM]

Head and block getting redone on monday/Tuesday. Must be on the assembly line by Wednesday/Thursday

[jb2g]

Hey Lat and everyone, I have been a member for a bit but never post,,

I just wanted to see how Lat was doing w/ his stroker, I have 90 TSI AWD w/ same setup

Weisco Stroker Pistons
Manley I beam rods
ARP Everything
But i have obviosly a 1g head and HKS 264 / 272 Cams
E3 16g (Someday will be GT35r)

at 10lbs boost 1st gear is over before you know it and 2nd snaps your neck

It does seem to do ok on pull untill about 6500rpm I think you will be verry happy w/ your setup on a built auto, and will probably surprise the hell out of most of these guys running 2.0 w/ a big turbo, but you might want to adjust your shift points to max power profit, you will have alot on the low end

I do get knock like crazy over 10lbs boost, I am yet to be completely tuned but here in CA we only have 91 unless you pony up the $8 per gallon for 100


Anyways good luck man, Let me know what your knock looks like too when you start boosting it a bit....

FYI a methodical break in with low boost high rpm and high vaccuum down shift if possible is best,,, I wouldnt doo too much boost it will just blow by your rings,, but dont baby it, and dont abuse it either..

[vaboys2ndgen]

^ good advise. i just saw this thread searching for 2.3l information lol. good stuff.

[LatDSM]

Head and block were remade, hasn't helped the oil getting burned stuff. I'm figuring a major blockage since its not leaking anywhere and the oil pressure is no where near what it should be.

However, the interior has moved a bit forward...here is what it looks like:

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_p1060400.jpg

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_p1060398.jpg

[lg93awdgsxer]

Still running up miles with the brake in. Up to the almost 400mile mark now on the new engine. still burning oil as it rubs in and brakes in. But getting better.

Its nice to do your own brake in...you can literally feel the car going better and better and better.... :D Starting to feel solid strong now.

Boost is no where near as expected. Its a bit lower than stock, but bearable...with 30% throttle I start spooling at 2.5k rpm, at 3k rpm playing with the throttle allows instant any boost within the pre-set range :D

Haven't been higher than 5k rpm yet. Car and guts don't allow it. Don't want to be risking anything.


I have a built 2.0l with a FP Green/ internally reg'd. At 20% throttle i achieve 14psi by 3800 , and can roll to 150+ mph. At 20%.

And my clutch is worn. So no launching. But yeah if your trans is built, and you have a differnt torque converter, you should get at least a 50-trim, but have fun with the evo3.:)

And i thought there was more piston slap from a stroker anyway? Because of increased side load, i thought the tolerences were "not as tite".\

Good luck with the car bro!

[vaboys2ndgen]

whats the part number on your pistons? i just got mine in the mail today so i was told :)

[94turbodsm]

Oooh, I like that interior. Very clean.

[16g-95GSX]

Without reading through the whole thread, the fact that you are running Pauters, in a 2.4L with 580cc injectors, an SAFC NEO, and an evo 3 turbo just seems so rediculously jumbled of a combo that it wouldnt make me feel jealous at all :).

[LatDSM]

2.3 ;)

[Asmodeus]

Oh Lat, Poor Lat...
I don't know how they roll in Latvia... but I'da killed a mf already.
Talk about shoddy ass work.
:(

1.5mm P2W clearance is insane.
I'm running 1.5 thousandths.
Stock is about 3 thou
And most forged situations are between 4-6 thou.

You need to check your ring gaps as well. I think the three blind mice put your engine together. I mean, that's just bad dude. Real bad.

How are they going to put metal back in your block? :confused:
There aren't sleeves. Its a solid block. WTF!

They'd have to start with a new block or bigger pistons...

Well, it looks like I win. Not to be a douche. I have 1300 miles on mine problem free. :D I've seen 9k. anti-lag, 28psi spikes on the 14b... no knock anywhere. Wiped a Mustang GT out, ran down a bike in 3rd gear, and even whooped on a SRT4 to boot... and that was just today.

Where you at Lat?
:banana:

Time for you to get serious dude. It looks like you need to keep a closer eye on what's being done with your engine. Those guys do NOT know what they are doing. And this is coming from a guy who built his engine on his kitchen table.
Note: mine works.

Not good buddy. Not good at all. :(

[LatDSM]

"Where you at Lat?"

Rebuild number 3 or 4...I forget :D should be running - tomorrow/wednesday. We shall see.

[3xrace]

Oh man Reason #3213 why I do all my own assembly, clearance as much machining work as I can. I've let someone try to build my engines 3 times for me and all 3 times they failed miserably. The care and attention to detail just isn't there. LatDSM you have my sympathy. I will be building pretty much the exact same thing you have going on. 2.3 with IPT built auto trans and I'll even be using my FP T28 until I have everything tuned in with the stock cams and all . I need to rebuild as I am now approaching 190,000 miles (sound familiar) on a stock unmolested 7 bolt but I wont have the money to do the cams and turbo right away so what i have will have to do. Hopefully my build goes smoother than yours not that it could go much worse:( ... Hope you get this all cleared up ASAP I want to see some et slips

Good Luck

[LatDSM]

The car turned over and started up last evening.

The intake manifold gasket is now leaking after all the rebuilds...has to be redone, hopefully as I'm typing this. Then the car should sit rumbling away for the rest of the day and I can take it for a spin in the evining.

For reference: it is now 9:50 on Tuesday, 24th of July, 2007 ;)

[psykhotic]

It's running??

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[LatDSM]

Yes it is...smooth as a kitten (if you can neglect the 1,5k rpm idle from the leak at the intake manifold) :D

[LatDSM]

and no oil on the pistons either...so the new/better oil rings finally worked.

it seems I had the wrong set sent to me with the stroker kit...

[LatDSM]

Just got a call from the mechanic who is working on my car. Its officially stopped smoking, just purring away at the clock. Intake manifold gasket leak fixed...

[Dsm Rocket]

Awsome man. Hope mine goes all together well now. LOL

[AeroOrion]

Just got a call from the mechanic who is working on my car. Its officially stopped smoking, just purring away at the clock. Intake manifold gasket leak fixed...
Glad to hear its finally working out for you Lat. :)

[LatDSM]

115 miles on the clock...still running smooth...looks like it might hold together this time...

[Ken81590]

Your 60ft times will be amazing but your 1/4mi wont be that great for such a setup.

You should atleast go 20g, just my opinion though

[Ken81590]

Oh, and get it dyno'd, I can't wait to see this torque curve! lol

[Asmodeus]

Normal torque curve;

-----/--------------
----/
---/
--/


Lat's part throttle torque curve;

---I
---I
---I
---I

:P

[LatDSM]

We have only 1/8 mile races for now here...so 1/4 mile is not really the goal for now.

Breaking in the engine, have gone 300miles, no oil loss, everything seems to be working great engine wise. Broke the rear upper ball joint yesterday coming back from the round trip (it was raining and didn't see a nasty pothole), but that is being taken care of right now (limped it to the shop at midnight fearing the wheel will just fall off). In 5 hours I can take it for the next round trip that should put me in the ball park of 600miles, where I should be able to start going above 3k and turn the boost on.

going without boost is fun (EBC OFF). At 2,4k rpm in final gear (around 60mph) slightly pushing the pedal (at max 65% throttle according to afc) I built a max of 0.6bar, 0.54 being more the constant. Boost is built before rpms can climb near 3k rpm ;) so its more of a tap on the gas pedal...

with these settings and not exceeding ~2.7k rpm I can easily drive in the city and stay with the flow (30-40mph zones).

Remmember, I have a high-stall torque convertor, which ups the max stall to around 3,5k rpm, so it doesn't really grip that hard down low ;)

[LatDSM]

I'm now at 575miles. So as said - in the ballpark of 600.

Oil is getting flushed and changed today, fixing some minor suspension stuff and I'll be set for turning the boost on and slowly cranking that mf above the 3k mark and getting a rough tune. Spark plugs will be changed before that too...

Yesterdays long drive on the motorway netted a 29.2 mpg (going around 60-65mph), which was tested by filling the tank and then filling the tank again.

On the way back didn't check actual consumption but it was even better than that. :banana:



P.S. I have a race tomorrow :cool: I know...I'm a nutcase :wall: :huh:

P.P.S with the ebc still off, it spools to 0.67BAR at 2.5k easily

[LatDSM]

What a weekend :o

Started off with trying to tune the car at least roughly on Friday. The plugs went bad and were consistently being blown out...figures the gap was incorrect. So I could get a tune only for the up to 4,5k rpm range, after that it wouldn't fire.

Then the throttle position sensor wire came loose which gave me a headache for a second.

On to Saturday, the race day. Got new plugs, gapped them, everything should be fine if I could just tune it after the first training runs. No such like, my wb sensor lost power (solved that later), then something else went wrong...only later discovered that the FPR seleoinid boost source hose had come off.

Its little things like this that irritate the most.

Overall, i was running WAAAY too rich, it just didn't want to go. Had to tune blindsighted, so I was very carefull with leaning it out. The timed runs in the 1/8 went as follows

1) 10.34
2) 9.75 (here is a video of this run http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XxhhQNoiPA)
3) 9.26

Overall, I think it was a fun weekend to test the car out. The 9,26 although not impressive, is better than what I've ever recorded with this car and that is with it not firing 1/2 the track.

On another positive note - didn't brake anything major. Some rattle came up that sounds like metal hitting metal somewhere near the tranny. could be just a cover from the vibration, could be something internal. Have to figure that out yet, but it hasn't influenced any driving and comes up only during deacceleration.

Your input is more than welcome.

The plan for now is to check everything, fix that annoying rattle and continue tuning, hope to get plugs that actually work at 1,6bar (~21PSi) (which is what I get at minimum boost levels).

[Asmodeus]

flywheel bolts.

[LatDSM]

flywheel bolts.


Think they came loose?


also, my FPR solenoid is leaking at the back. I'm reading that it can be bypassed by going directly from manifold to the Aeromotive FPR? Is this correct?

[AeroOrion]

Think they came loose?


also, my FPR solenoid is leaking at the back. I'm reading that it can be bypassed by going directly from manifold to the Aeromotive FPR? Is this correct?
That is correct.

[LatDSM]

Turned out it was just some shield that had come loose...fixed that and everything is fine now.

I need suggestions for good plugs ASAP.

The BPR7ES aren't doing their job at 1,5 bar (around 22PSi)

[CanadianTSi]

The BPR7ES aren't doing their job at 1,5 bar (around 22PSi)

Well then there's something wrong with your Ignition, 7's gapped at .028 on the stock ignition setup are fine until atleast 26psi.

[LatDSM]

Blah, no wonder the plugs didn't work - one plug had a missing tip. Must have been blown off and away. They were the BPR7E anyway...

Changed to properly gapped BPR7ES, whole other story...man what a rush. Was fun while it lasted - still runing a bit rich, tuned some more...got into range and its still running not overly well especially after the first shift.

Startet contemplating and came to the conclusion, that the timing pull on the shifts must be big enough to create such a mix that the plug can't fire through it (gets blown out or whatelse...don't forget its a stroker with different physics at work). Gona try iridium plugs tomorrow, hope that will solve the issues.

Oh....also...it seems I have boost spikes to max of 25PSi.

[Asmodeus]

bring the gaps down before you buy iridium junk...
I can light 28 psi on 7's under anti-lag with a 10% enrichment.

Man... you like to throw money at problems instead of using your head.
Either buy a Supra, or start acting like a DSM'er.
;)

Fix your tune.
Bring your gap down in steps until it lights.

[LatDSM]

So, I should gap the 7s at less than 0.028"?

[LatDSM]

Another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjtqMzdqsc8

[99gsx99]

Whoa man, that thing is not firing well at all.

I am a personal fan of BPR8es plugs. But it looks like it needs to be tuned more properly.

Good luck.

[LatDSM]

Aaargh $%@#$%@#$

I was finally moving towards finalizing the tune :( Got a few clear runs...and suddenly noticed that oil temp was a bit high....

Ok, decided to take it light for a few miles...and bam...water temp skyrocketed...pulled over and turned off before it could get to the red zone...

Some coolant had leaked through the line to the bottle, bottle full, radiator hose empty...

I think some of the sealant they use in too much excess got in the coolant system and created a major blockage....but maybe something else is broke...won't know until monday....and I had a few good races set up for the weekend too :(

I hate these little small things that just have to be dealt with before you can enjoy a car after a major overhaul :(

[LatDSM]

Coolant boiling issue was solved. Turns out that with the increase in ambient temps, the coolant started needing more space and the temp fix of an overflow bottle in the form of a small cola bottle didn't help at all...it didn't have places to go, so it just found ways to get out and kaboom - instant coolant loss.

Put back the original overflow bottle and everything is working as it should.


My biggest persisting problem is finding the right plugs.

I've tried:
NGK BPR6ES
NGK BPR7ES
NGK BPR7E
Greddy Irridium 7s (made by NGK still)
Brisk Racing Irridium

all gapped correctly. The NGKs didn't last a full day, the Brisk Racing lasted 1,5 weeks but didn't work worth for shit at 5,5k+

The Greddy sparks should be better, but they are too demanding and having only 3 7es and 1 8es is really messing the spark and continuity.

Just gona have to try NGK Iridium I guess...but its really pissing me off, because without a proper spark I can't get it to work right.

Maybe I should change plug wires as well?

[dsmersam661]

You should put a t88 on that bitch, with some champion plugs! jk, nice car man, im mad jealious

[LatDSM]

Oh, forgot to add the coolest part....car has over 1,2k miles on the new engine now.

[LD]

Did you ever try tightening the gap of the 7ES's? It can't hurt to try bringing it down a little and see how it reacts.

[LatDSM]

They were gapped to 0.028, you mean lowering even more? to what?

[DSMscreamer]

They were gapped to 0.028, you mean lowering even more? to what?

You gap them down to .20 if need be. With the times your running you are in no way taxing the factory ignition. Replace the wires, that is most likely your problem. I can run a gap of .27 with in my car with no misfires. If the plugs wire don't solve the problem you may have a bad coil.

[DSMscreamer]

flywheel bolts.
Autos don't have flywheels, they have flex plates. That dust shield can make a hell of a racket when bent. Hope they put locktite on the convertor bolts.

[LD]

[QUOTE=DSMscreamer]Autos don't have flywheels, they have flex plates. /QUOTE]


What does the starter engage then?

[chris49582]

[QUOTE=DSMscreamer]Autos don't have flywheels, they have flex plates. /QUOTE]


What does the starter engage then?
The flex plate.

[LD]

Thank you. I have no experience with auto's.

[DSMscreamer]

[QUOTE=chris49582]
The flex plate.

WRONG! Please do not answer if you have no clue. They engage on the torque convertor which has teeth.

[LD]

[QUOTE=chris49582]

WRONG! Please do not answer if you have no clue. They engage on the torque convertor which has teeth.

Thank you. The flexplate didn't seem right but I really don't have experience with autos. I doubt I will but it is good to know. Thanks again!

[chris49582]

[QUOTE=chris49582]

WRONG! Please do not answer if you have no clue. They engage on the torque convertor which has teeth.
Harsh, but you are correct. I don't know what I was thinking there, the ring gear is welded to the torque converter.

[LatDSM]

Overall, i was running WAAAY too rich, it just didn't want to go. Had to tune blindsighted, so I was very carefull with leaning it out. The timed runs in the 1/8 went as follows

1) 10.34
2) 9.75 (here is a video of this run http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XxhhQNoiPA)
3) 9.26

Overall, I think it was a fun weekend to test the car out. The 9,26 although not impressive, is better than what I've ever recorded with this car and that is with it not firing 1/2 the track.


Just a small update.

The 9,26 comes with:

RT: 0.526
ET: 9.260
kph: 130

:cool:

Fired up the car after the winter and it started with the first turnover :D yaay.

The small details seem to have been fixed. Uses 25l of gas within the city for 100km, on the highway aprox 10l per 100km :) going approx 80mph I like that very much.


Pulls like a mofo though, despite the fact that I still haven't had time to clean out the tune. (Its been winter and I'm posted in Germany for now and car stayed behind)

[Black_ bullet]

This is probably late contribution to your thread, but
I think you should run non projected spark plugs.

Meaning getting the ones without the P... BR7ES for example...

[LatDSM]

hmmmm, the project is still running, so nothing is ever late.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it.

[Don Boosted]

your going to love the trans set up, its going to make your car feel sooo much faster especially with a launch that'll make u spin all four now :)
i have same mods... but stock motor and just a evo3 16g... tuned.. i cut 1.6 60 foots with my auto, enjoy


That is not a bad 60 ft at all:eek: . Kudos to you my friend.


EDIT: Wow this is old. My bad.

[Don Boosted]

that thing would spool at 500rpms.

it'd probly be like driving a n/a car.

Mine spooled around 1500 rpm. :chair: Needless to say it's pretty much toast and I am looking for another cheap t25 or 14b :chair: :chair: until I finish getting supporting mods.

[Chicago_DSM]

That is not a bad 60 ft at all:eek: . Kudos to you my friend.


EDIT: Wow this is old. My bad.

Haha, I was about to say. Rich hasn't even driven his 2g auto in two years now!

Personally, I had bad luck with the BR7's. As soon as I switched back to BPR's, the car made significantly more power.

[LatDSM]

what do you think - am I safe to run 25-29PSi?

[LatDSM]

You will be spinning your tires like no other with that much low end torque....

The auto mods are a great idea...Djwired runs the same setup as you, and you will never see a more consistent car than his...


Let him strap on the 16g. Let him enjoy having disgusting gut wrenching tourqe and upgrade when he is ready. It's his fucking car, if you are not buying him a huge turbo shut up.


Soo...time for an update. Just got back from a weekend of tuning and racing. The tuning part didn't go perfectly, so the racing was just to see where I am at. More on details here: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197045

As for the quotes:
1) All four tires spinning - yep...all four for 2-3m on a good launch.

2) Torque is crazy. Drove the car around for ~2,5 days trying to find sweetspots for most situations. My neck hurts so bad (from being snapped back) as if I've been lifting bricks by tilting my head. :D

Its just such a fun car to drive around....

I can easily match traffic without using boost (don't forget I'm a 4cyl automatic) and if I want to floor it to say...50% throttle it just takes off...

atmospher pressure (0 boost) is reached at 1,5-2k without sweat, press it a tad bit more and instant 7psi without a downshift...if it downshifts then instantly 14psi.

Yes, it spikes...the evo3 internal wg can't handle a 2.0, wouldn't expect it to handle a 2.3. But I've gotten it down to 26PSi and with more adjustments I guess I could get it not to spike.

Ignition is still giving me problems but mostly I would attribute it to a ball park tune, which is nowhere perfect.

In this form, I'm already faster then a stock e46 BMW M3, which is rated at 340hp and at the track ran 0.1sec slower in the 1/8th mile compared to a measured 350awhp 1g.

So I would say I'm getting there...slowly...but still improving. :)

[LatDSM]

Spent the last weekend playing with the set-up some more.

found that I can get boost under some control with increasing gain.

Also played around a bit with the AFC Neo and discovered that while driving the auto I would often go to around 40% tps just city cruising due to the way the automatic behaves.

So, disputing the general rule of thumb of setting 35%lo and 75%hi throttle, changed it to 45% and 80% throttle. This seemed to help a lot more to bringing base together with the highs.

I can basically do full rpm range pulls and get pops on the gear-shift. But this could be due to the plugs being set at 0,028", going to try and narrow them down to 0,022"-0,025" range and see if that helps.

If tuning an auto is one thing...then that is driving it around for insane amounts of time just trying to find the sweet spots for most conditions.

[LatDSM]

I'm an idiot for not thinking of this before...

The tune i've got probably will have to be redone :D again :D

As you know I was fighting extreme richness to the point where the SAFC almost runs out of its capacity on 580cc injectors and that I had problems with the plugs.

And now I think I might have thought of why.

Rich mxiture sometimes is caused not only from too much fuel through the injector but also from leftovers -> as in there isn't a good enough spark to get the required explosion. and progressing through the rpm range it can get only worse until you pop a backfire.

why am I thinking this, because I realised that although being said that the plug wires are GOOD they are not magnecor 8,5mm or of such sort, a mainly unknown brand. And they sometimes didn't slide perfectly on the plug, so I'm not sure if they have a good connection. Hence I have a big fear that there is an inability to provide a perfect spark could be the cause of all evil, because going through 6es, 7es and 8es and iridium plugs...nothing really changed.

This is what you get from assuming too much and I guess I'm in the market for some good plugwires. does anybody know if the jnztuning sold magnecor's are the 8,5mm? they don't specify on the site :(

cliff notes: sometimes you have to take a step back from your problem to analyze the whole system for weaknesses that could be the cause of your problems.

[LatDSM]

Took the liberty to take a plane back home for the weekend, and spend 4 hours taking apart and putting together the car for just one simple goal - to check the ECU.

And yes :banana: it IS an EPROM ECU. So fck AFC, DSMLink here I come. :)

[dsm614]

I love the automatic love :)

Great car.

[LatDSM]

Thanks to JNZ Tuning.....and a follow DSMer for the HKS gears...

http://www.dsmclub.lv/e107_files/public/4_p1080979.jpg


a side note: JNZ stuff arrived within 1 week, while the stuff from the DSMer took 2 weeks. Both used same postal service... I think JNZ is bribing USPS to bring stuff to you on the double :eek:

[LatDSM]

DSMLINK is installed. I cannot believe how much better it is then AFC. The car runs smooth, its predictable and holds the target A/F ratio aimed for.

Still in the - get your LTFTs right area, but already now there is a HUGE difference in how the car behaves. I am now a firm believer and I understand why people who have it recommend it like a religion

[LatDSM]

Wasn't able to get a stable run in the upper RPMs and on some runs noticed a dangerously high injector duty cycle.

Having in mind that I get aprox 0,32g of air per rev instead of the 2.0 0,28 g of air per rev, and that my 580cc injectors are the lower limit for an evo3 16g on a 2.0, bought some 880cc injectors to be more on the safe side of things.

Next race is scheduled for 3rd of August.

[LatDSM]

Unfortunately the 880's didn't arrive on time, so had to race without the new injectors.

The video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR0HCQ4FnU4

The log:

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_images_userpics_res_show_90_20080812_213642_23504.jpg

The time in the 1/8 mile:
RT: 0.085
ET: 9,455
Mph: 74mph

They're finally here :)


http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_images_userpics_res_show_90_20080812_212028_37851.jpg

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_images_userpics_res_show_90_20080812_212041_61555.jpg

[LatDSM]

updated pic

http://www.getaway.lv/images/userpics/res_show/90_20080817_225544_71881.jpg

[K_Mans_TSI]

Haha, I was about to say. Rich hasn't even driven his 2g auto in two years now!

Personally, I had bad luck with the BR7's. As soon as I switched back to BPR's, the car made significantly more power.

I ran the BR series plugs (8's) on my 650whp pull on the stock 200k mile 2g ignition. It didn't misfire once on the Dyno in this configuration.

[Chicago_DSM]

Yeah we ran BR8's in my buddies EvoGreen powered Evo on spray. He recently took off the spray and switched to running 32-36psi all boost on C16, and we use BR9's for that.

[LatDSM]

After changing two sets of spark plug wires, numerous sets of plugs and not finding the problem I turned finally to the coil. Borrowed a COP from a buddy and it didn't have a single problem anymore.

Now its all down to tuning. Already now runs just great.

Also made a small photoshoot:

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_albumz_album127_20080905_getaway_duke_eagle_talon_02.jpg

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_albumz_album127_20080905_getaway_duke_eagle_talon_05.jpg

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_albumz_album127_20080905_getaway_duke_eagle_talon_10.jpg

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_albumz_album127_20080905_getaway_duke_eagle_talon_15.jpg

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_albumz_album127_20080905_getaway_duke_eagle_talon_25.jpg

http://www.getaway.lv/images/forum/www.getaway.lv_albumz_album127_20080905_getaway_duke_eagle_talon_28.jpg

more here (http://www.getaway.lv/modules.php?set_albumName=album127&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=1)

[LatDSM]

Last event of this season:

Ran a best of 9,16 in qualification, but don't have it on camera. Spanked an Impreza and Audi S4 (2.7 turbo) during qualifications.

Qualifications round 3:
My track time - 9.4173
EVO with a 35R turbo - 7.3107 (No.1 qualifier)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyG0MO8Dj4Y

1/8 finals:
My track time - 9,2924
Audi S2 (carbon body, big turbo, etc went on to win the class) - 7,8271

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o0HWiG3dtI

pls note - its track time, not ET and even then seemed by 0,5-0,8s off for all drivers competing (maybe due to a system failure or track exceeding 201m (1/8mile) length).


Pic of Audi S4 getting its ass handed to it (the light line is the finish line)

http://www.getaway.lv/albumz/album112/20080906_getaway_skybrake_streetrace_party_2008_20.jpg

[LatDSM]

oh...and got to love HID lights

http://www.getaway.lv/albumz/album112/20080906_getaway_skybrake_streetrace_party_2008_36.jpg

[trinistylz2002]

^WTF man, it's like a damn party on that track! That's pretty cool with the lights and blasting music an all but I would think it was difficult to see speeding down the track with that big ass helicopter light in the rearview.

[LatDSM]

I'm pretty sure the S2 doesn't have any mirrors :D