COP set ups

[dsms4ever]

It seems that these have been pretty popular lately. I'm trying to conclude for which reason are they better than our stock coils? Is it for the sheer reason that they don't use spark plug wires, thus resulting in essentially no resistance between the coil and the plug? I'm primarily looking at the chrysler 300m coils to use. Do they provide a better spark than our stock coils. I'm also wondering how the coil on plugs lifespan looks compared to the stock coils. I'm just trying to get down the bottom of this to determine if i should go this route. Thank you.

[fatalshock]

I think you've answered a majority of your own questions. Yes, it has it's up sides and not many downsides, but for the cost some people don't really even consider it because it offers no "gains", necessarily. It's a proven setup, plus you never need plug wires again!

[90_talon_matt]

What power level are you shooting for? The stock DSM ignition is quite stout to be modest.

[Asmodeus]

COP is ok for moderate setups. Or not more than 27-28lbs of boost.
Whichever comes first.

You can run an AEM IGN AMP... but your coil's life span will be measured in runs... not time. Also, the AEM unit's are 1 out of 4 dying in the first month. A big improvement from the 2-3 out of 4 they used to be.
:rolleyes:

MSD indiv coils and big shorty wires is the premium setup.
Or, an actual improvement.

COP will feel like an improvement for low, to moderately modded cars.
Usually noticeable in a smooth as glass idle. And more mid to upper peak boost response & power. Basically where your old wires, or ageing coils are working the hardest.

Run a big boost DSM? COP is not for you.

I have a kit with 300m coils I made. It felt better on my car running about 24lbs. Cleaner in the midrange. Less knock. Its basically a temporary solution for me.

Does that help? I have roughly $40 in mine incl the plate.
If you are considering buying one for $300 I would NEVER do it.
NEVER. Its 100% not worth it. Bascially for the most part a cosmetic mod in the grand scheme of things.

[dsms4ever]

I planned to make my own for a minimal cost with some 300m coils. I only run 20 pounds of boost on the street and plan on 24 at the track with the big 16g. So i'd say it's a moderate dsm around 300+ to the wheels. The car missed BADLY with bpr8es's, and today when i put in some brp7es's the car idles great, so my ignition is aged i'm guessing. At 120k miles on stock wires and coil. I think the cop will be a good upgrade.

[newtalonguy]

i'm just curious why do all the big names that put over 35 psi run COP? at least in drag racing that is.....

[french_hustler]

^I'm guessing they get a better and more accurate spark in higher boost where wires work harder to keep up?

[Asmodeus]

Look again...
They don't.

On a 60-1 setup and 32-33lbs of boost even with the AEM amplifier the 300m coils on a COP couldn't keep up. We tried everything. Went back to coils and short wires.

I'm not saying this for my health. Been there done that.
Its not better.

[AWDlaser]

i'm just curious why do all the big names that put over 35 psi run COP? at least in drag racing that is.....


some run the COP w/ an ignition amp. while if you look at some of the other names they are still running the stock stuff with upgraded wires/ plugs (look at magnus and kiggly)

[RE's 97 gs-t]

The car missed BADLY with bpr8es's, and today when i put in some brp7es's the car idles great, so my ignition is aged i'm guessing. At 120k miles on stock wires and coil. I think the cop will be a good upgrade.
That does not neccessarily mean that your coil pack and wires are going bad. Our cars came with 6's from the factory with 7's being the recommended colder plug.

[11secdsm]

The car missed BADLY with bpr8es's, and today when i put in some brp7es's the car idles great


No kidding...it's because YOU DON'T NEED 8's for your setup. The biggest problem people run into is running TOO cold of a plug for their setup. You want to run the hottest plug possible that still keeps your car running right. So if you car runs well on 7s don't go and switch to 8s thinking it will help you.

[thimages]

Look again...
They don't.

I beg to differ.

Someone apparently thinks otherwise.

http://www.shepracing.com/images/racecarmotorL.jpg

[Asmodeus]

All the guys still running cop are running them off the msd dis2 box.
Look.

Not just cop.
Thats a $600 unit.

[tsi.awd]

beat me to it thimages.
600$? details?

[Asmodeus]

The MSD DIS 2.
Actually Buschur has it for $360.

Its a multi-spark etc ign box.
Its what everyone thats running a COP at a professional level
is also using.

Go look at Shep's or Buschur's car. (they still run the COP)
They both have the DIS 2.

[Dsm Rocket]

Where you find the stuff to make one for $40? Coils from a junkyard? Where you get the plate cut? You cut it yourself?

[Asmodeus]

I used Intrepid coils. (same as 300m.) They just bolt on top and bottom VS bottom and side. 2.6l 01+
Cost me $20 for all 6. I bought two sets, which is 12.
;)

Gave a set to Infinity, and a set to Shott17.
I sent a rough cut plexi prototype to Spoolin69,
he cut me a SS plate with his layzor beam...
:D
It helps when you've been around here for a while guys.

He has the plates, if you need them.
As well as flanges, and gaskets for a medley of DSM things.
He's actually supplied vendors and he's a super good guy.
So I always go thru him if I need something made.
He deserves the little money he makes, and is the cheapest anyway.

:cool:

[newtalonguy]

ha ha when i posted i was looking at my pics of my car and also sheps side by side. I was like hey wait are we doing something wrong lol. Also i am running a msd dis 2. I didn't know we were talking just staight up COP wired to factory ignition........ Damn i've been so innacurate in posting this week and Asmodeus is always on my heals. ( I do have to say although sometimes he comes off kinda rough around the edges he does know his $h!T)

[e_miller81]

So let me understand what you guys are saying.

If I switch to COP and am going to be boosting 32 psi I will want to buy a MSD-dis2. Is this correct. I am around 500whp

Thanks

[90_talon_matt]

The real question should be why do you want to switch over to COP.

[e_miller81]

to clean up the engine bay is why I want to switch over to COP

[90_talon_matt]

That's a pretty expensive way to clean up the engine bay.

[Asmodeus]

That's a pretty expensive way to clean up the engine bay.

expensive?
naaaaaah...
:P

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Talon/112206_1758a.jpg

Courtesy of Spoolin69. :D
Although I will SERIOUSLY, ADAMANTLY... tell you NOT to buy the AEM unit.
Buy the MSD! The AEM's have an EXTREMELY HIGH failure rate.
We had one back charge into the power transistor unit and fry it.
They suck! Right in the mother fucking staging lanes! :mad: :wall:

Damn i've been so innacurate in posting this week and Asmodeus is always on my heals. ( I do have to say although sometimes he comes off kinda rough around the edges he does know his $h!T)

No the word you're looking for is ASSHOLE. I admit it. I can be a complete dickhead. However, when it comes to things that I've literally pulled my hair out about... and this is one I assure you things flew across the garage over.
I try to stay on point. Don't want to see some guy pick one up for $300 (why you wouldn't build your own... its sofuckingeasy...) and believe this is going to solve his stutter, and blowing out the spark... and on it goes... same problem... And things get kicked and punched...
I don't want to see that. Especially if I've been there.
Simple.
:cool:

[lg93awdgsxer]

expensive?




No the word you're looking for is ASSHOLE. I admit it. I can be a complete dickhead.
:cool:
i'll second that..lol:banana:
didn't mean to rub ya the wrong way with the my tial talk. ha ha, i got bigger problems,now....

[TEC]

Asmodeus I usually agree with you but in this case I have to say that the MSD DIS 2 (actually MSD period) is as big a POS as the AEM unit. They are known for lasting months under daily driven conditions. I went through two of them in a year and a half before I gave up on them. The one time I forgot to put the bypass for the unit (before I threw it under a truck) it left me stranded after it burnt up.

The unit I recommend now is the HKS DLI (gold box). It is the gold standard. I have yet to see one fail and I've seen back to back dyno runs where the box accounted for as much as 20 peak hp.

[Asmodeus]

Asmodeus I usually agree with you but in this case I have to say that the MSD DIS 2 (actually MSD period) is as big a POS as the AEM unit. They are known for lasting months under daily driven conditions. I went through two of them in a year and a half before I gave up on them. The one time I forgot to put the bypass for the unit (before I threw it under a truck) it left me stranded after it burnt up.

The unit I recommend now is the HKS DLI (gold box). It is the gold standard. I have yet to see one fail and I've seen back to back dyno runs where the box accounted for as much as 20 peak hp.

We got 2 weeks out of the first AEM. About another 3 on the 2nd.
daily driven but barely. Maybe 10 pulls?

:wall:

What is up with these pos boxes...
:confused:

It was under suggestion on the MSD. Basically anything but the AEM.
If its as bad as you say. Than its no better than the aem.
fabulous.

How much is the Hks?

[16g-95GSX]

I have heard bad things about the AEM, but never about the MSD box.

[GAstroker]

I've had the same MSD box in my car for 6 yrs now. My car is not daily driven any more but for the first couple years it was. MSD is still there and working strong (knock on wood)...
Oh, and I bought it used off another DSM guy so there's no telling how old it is.

[Asmodeus]

TEC, normally I'd agree with you...
:P

But that was the first I'd heard about AEM like problems with the MSD's.
Maybe you just had shitty luck?
:confused:

I'm glad people are chiming in on this.
Anyone else want to toss in what box they're running?
Or problems they've had with one or the other?

[44pirate]

I had a MSD DIS 2 in my 97 Talon for 2 yrs daily driven. I had mine mounted in the glove box because of the heat in FL. Ran flawlessly. I will be gettting another one for my COP.

[newtalonguy]

MDS DIS 2 had it in my street/track car about 2 years and in another vehicle for about a year before that never had any problems with it (knocks on wood)

[TEC]

TEC, normally I'd agree with you...
:P

But that was the first I'd heard about AEM like problems with the MSD's.
Maybe you just had shitty luck?
:confused:

I'm glad people are chiming in on this.
Anyone else want to toss in what box they're running?
Or problems they've had with one or the other?

Well what can I say? My luck was bad with them which is why I'll never buy one again. I also know multiple people that won't touch their stuff either because of failures. In fact a buddy and I were laughing the other day about the fact that this company (http://www.techwestracing.com/) can stay in business doing mostly MSD repairs...that says a lot.

Oh, something else kind of odd is that he has been running the AEM CDI without issues. We are both waiting for it to blow soon though.

Regardless I still like the HKS DLI box. I can't say enough about it and how it performs.

[Red1991TSI]

COP will feel like an improvement for low, to moderately modded cars. Usually noticeable in a smooth as glass idle. And more mid to upper peak boost response & power. Basically where your old wires, or ageing coils are working the hardest.

I have to agree with this statement. Just installed my COP and love the silky smooth feel. Makes driving in parking lots and low RPM driving a pleasure now. Just feels SO much more precise as far as ignition goes.

Now it's possible with 180k on my stock coil, it may have been weak or going bad as others have suggested. All I can say is I did feel a difference in how it runs. When it took it out for the first run a had a stutter above 4k RPM when at full boost. Took it home, re-gapped the plugs to about .029 or so and took her back out. Held full boost pulls to 7k RPM and felt great. So if you experience that "falling on it's face" feeling of no power, I'd suggest re-gapping to the lower spec for the plug. I beleive I was blowing out the spark or it was weak at the larger gap.

I'm in for about $100 overall for the COP setup. I wouldn't spend $300 but for $100 it was well worth the price and effort. If I had to do it all over again, it would probably take me about $80 and 1/4 the time.

For anyone building their own, you will need to cut the coil tower (rubber thingy <--- technical term) and the conductor spring inside the tower. Make sure it's just a tad long so the boot sits on the insulator. You don't want any exposed metal at the plug to prevent arching.

I only plan on running 21 on the street so I think I'll be good with the COP limitations without an ignition box.

[shott17]

I just finished wiring up my setup. Like stated I got the coils from Asmo with a trip into the back ass countryside of pennsyltucky. :)

I also baught a plate from Shane(spoolin69) altogether I got no more than 40 bucks into it and in the next week or so when I fire up my car again hopefully I did it right and Ill be happy.

If you can get junkyard coils and a plate, do it. In Red1991TSI's cop help thread there is a good wiring diagram. Thats what I used.

[Red1991TSI]

In Red1991TSI's cop help thread there is a good wiring diagram. Thats what I used.

I used the same one and it worked the first turn of the key.

[AL92]

I put on COP and had some initial problems it was wired wrong and then seemed to have some problem higher up. But gapped my plugs down think to .025 or so forget exactly it was last year. I am not getting some high end problem not 100% sure its not boost leak yet. Car was running aces a few days ago and now the problem like a bucking but only at like higher rpm.

I was trying some BR8eS non projection and have been running around 20psi on my FP3065. So maybe am fouling them out as doing quite a bit of traffic stuff not just track. They are maybe too cold for the street so guess back to BR7es or BPR7es not sure which would be better. So what do most of you COP without boxs run for gaps?
Also heard bad on the mds since think they sold out to some company or something and quality took a huge dive. Crane is supposed to be excellent now might be worth trying a crane box. I do like the way the COP looks and if have to use a box to do some big boost later on fine.

[Ripper_XX]

So does anyone know anything about the HKS box?

[dsmskyline]

I made my COP. Mine kinda looks ghetto though, I never got around to making a plate and everyone ive seen for sale is like $60 so I just leave it how it is. I also left the rubber coil towers full length since I have no clue how thick the plate would be if I got/made one.

spoolin69, Ive got $20.00 with your name on it if you can made and ship me one.

Thanks,
Thomas
90 TSI AWD

[dsms4ever]

I still haven't made myself one of these and i can tell my old stock stuff is wearing out. Sometimes i'll start the car up and it idles like it's firing really slow, it's like a funky vibration like the engine hasn't woken up from slumber yet and it's grogy, then i rev a tad and it smooths out it's hesitation. But it misfires at idle with the bpres7's after like a week of driving on them, and it wouldn't even handle the 8's without immediatally having a misfire with them. I'm sure they are the original spark plug wires, coils, and power tr with 122k on them. How are you guys making these for so cheap? I kind of wanted to use new 300m coils rather than used ones so i guess that's where the money is at.

[Red1991TSI]

I kind of wanted to use new 300m coils rather than used ones so i guess that's where the money is at.

They're expensive new. Like $10 at a boneyard. I bought 6 so I had two spares to carry with me. They're small. I just keep the coil part and not the rubber tower and spring.

Diagnosis is a snap. Pull connectors one at a time until you locate the dead coil. 2 screws, a tug and push, redo 2 screws. You're done.

[dsms4ever]

The cheapest i've found them new is $30 per coil. So that's $120 for the coils.

Spoolin69 how much do your plates sell for? What do they look like, what are they made out of?

[Red1991TSI]

The cheapest i've found them new is $30 per coil. So that's $120 for the coils.

Spoolin69 how much do your plates sell for? What do they look like, what are they made out of?


It's Josh right? No need to question any aspect of the quality of Shane's plate. I can personally vouch for the high quality, 3/16ths inch of creamy stainless steel thickness. I got mine and I was like :eek:

Once I saw how precise that thang fit on the valve cover, I was like :banana:

Buy it with confidence. When you see it you'll be like :D

I'm like...:burnout:

[dsms4ever]

Who's josh? lol. Should i just send him a pm, how much do shane's plates go for?

[Red1991TSI]

Who's josh? lol. Should i just send him a pm, how much do shane's plates go for?

I'm trying to learn people's names on here but apparently that attemp was a failure.

As for Shane's prices, I'll let him give it. I don't know if it varies?

[Asmodeus]

Shane's COP plates are pure sex.
+100.

I love mine.
:D

[Red1991TSI]

Shane's COP plates are pure sex.

Asmo knows too! He wacks it with COP in hand!

[dsms4ever]

I'm james, btw. Haven't i sold you something??? I remember shipping somthing out to NM.

[Red1991TSI]

I'm james, btw. Haven't i sold you something??? I remember shipping somthing out to NM.

I don't think so but it's possible. May have been Chicago1, don't know.

[xtreme-gsx]

If you're looking for something cheap....check out my auction. I custom cut this from a .25" piece of aluminum, very nice and strong.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160096432591&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:MT:11

[dsms4ever]

If your plate will work with the chrysler coils then i'll take a brushed alumin one for $35 shipped to 97304, salem, OR. Let me know, thanks.