Lazylaser’s DSM journey 97 talon

[lazylaser]

Lazylaser’s DSM journey
I don’t have enough posts for the member’s projects section. Although I do way more searching than posting.
I started with a 91 fwd Plymouth Laser that I bought at a police auction for about $680. It was more of a go-cart than a car. In the beginning I had some trouble getting it to make the power that I was looking for. After finding the cams were 180* out, all the upgrades that were piled on the car really Woke up. These big power gains now created traction issues that even, polyurethane mounts , suspension, an LSD and good rubber couldn’t solve.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/lastpicofthe1g.jpg
The TRE (team rip) transmission was a pile of shit from the time I got it, it ended up being the weakest link and the LSD exploded on the highway.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/broke-1.jpg
Luckily I was prepared; I had already Bought an AWD 97 talon tsi that was being prepped for a heart transplant.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/facemissing-1.jpg
Whoever owned the car before me slapped a boost controller and an evo 16g on the car and Knocked the rod bearings into the bottom of the oil pan.
After about a month of wrenching on the car, my friends and I transformed it into the car I wanted,
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/buildmotorin-1.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_1653-1.jpg
The mr2 is my younger brothers’ and just as much work went into his toyota
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_1661-1.jpg
98,000 talon tsi,
6-bolt swap, balance shafts removed, ARP rodbolts, headstuds, and turbo bolts, b/c 272’s cams and springs and titanium retainers
dsmlink, gm 3” maf and translator
slowboy fmic and piping, 63mm throttle body, greddy rs bov
pte 780cc injectors, aeromotive afpr, walbro Hp 255 and 6an from tank to rail.
Ebay 3” turboback stainless steel exhaust
Aem uego w/b, autometer C2 boost, egt, fuel pressure and oil pressure
Act2600 and fidenza aluminum flywheel.
Evo16g that I spent days porting, 38mm w/g with opendump, sbr cast manifold and 2g ported o2
Magnacore wires and ngk plugs
And other things like s.s. clutch and brake lines and a 2600cfm fan, a lot of things have been relocated (like the battery) or removed (like the A/C) , I’m sure I’m forgetting other stuff.
Future plans are, coilovers, big brakes and meth injection.
BIG THANKS GOES OUT TO Asmodeus of demonmotorworks, who turned many wrenches on this project , and Chaz Mance who did a lot of the wiring.
See everyone at the shootout

[Asmodeus]

Thanks buddy. Glad I could help.

It sure is a pretty car compared to the old Laser. Get the WB in and we'll get it tuned. Then it should really wake up for you.

[Talon_Fan]

NICE 2Gb Talon man! Wish I had one.. or the money to convert.

[Sebba]

Very nice :)

[lazylaser]

Thanks buddy. Glad I could help.

It sure is a pretty car compared to the old Laser. Get the WB in and we'll get it tuned. Then it should really wake up for you.

Shoot, I'm glad you could help!
The W/B isn't getting put in until next week, Jeff at firsttry is busy this week. I wish it could happen sooner because I long to hear my open dump!

For the other posters, thank you. I appreciate the feedback. This car is everything I've wanted; I truly have a hard time believing that I actually own it.

[lazylaser]

here is a picture of my talon's cockpit
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_1784.jpg
this is a most recent photo of her
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_1786.jpg
and here is an UPDATED engine bay picture, w/ the some hyundai badging
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_1788.jpg
and my Laser went to the crusher @ d &d ...I saw her smashed before my very eyes...If I can't have her nobody can!

[lazylaser]

Well I finally made it to the track, and I won every race...

I was my second time ever at the track
and the 1st time in this car.


Best et. of the night was 13.1,
the best mph was 106,
best 60' was 1.95 and the reaction times were .2 something.

1st run against a corvette (I shifted from 2nd to 4th and still won)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy3Sertrl-M

Me taking down some beater 5.0.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMQiE0XlVY

Then some truck that wanted to "school me"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNaKcQK1C0E

Last race was against a hemi charger srt8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzOuEzew9mQ

I have a lot of driving and getting used to the car before I can make it get the times I want.

[Asmodeus]

Work on your foot work.

You bogged it every time. If you want to side step it out of the hole you need to set the revs up higher. Or it will fall flat on its face with a brand new clutch that is still ultra grippy.

(not what I would recommend)

Do a run where you "slip it til you smell it". And the car leaps out of the hole. Then slip it 1/2 to 3/4 as much. I know you are running a street disc so give it AMPLE cool down time in between runs if you slip the shit out of it.

Or you will warp it and have disengagement issues.
Not to mention your aluminum FW will not take that kind of beating for long.

All in all it was your first time in a new car. Still shaking some bugs out and you did well. I'm not beating you up. I just think there is atleast a half a second on that exact setup with more boost and a change to the timing. On pump fuel.

2 or three of those 1/10ths are in your 60ft tho.
;)

With your MPH dropping with each subsequent faster ET run the power is just not there. She needs another 4-5psi. The 19-20psi taper to 15-16psi at 6500 just isn't moving all that fat 2g booty.

Bring it up and I'll straighten it out.

:cool:

[lazylaser]

I'm on my way, more boost...lets get this fat 2g pig up to par.

[Got Insulin?]

Details on how you mounted the laptop, please. Car is BAMF for sure, man.

[lazylaser]

Details on how you mounted the laptop, please. Car is BAMF for sure, man.

sure thing,
I heard good things about the $40 ebay laptop stand, for $40 I figured I would give it a try. The quality was 10x better than I expected and it went in without issue. I'm Really glad I didn't try to make my own stand, it wasent worth the time. My usual passenger, Asmodeus can get in and out of the car easily so... here's the details

http://www.jeniko.com/

the model was the

CFL-800 Floor Mount

Cheap simple and it works.

[Got Insulin?]

Cool, man. Any way you could snap a few from the passenger's side doorway so I can see it installed and all?

[lazylaser]

well, my meth kit has been ordered. so I'll keep this thread updated on how that goes.

[gSx-LeX]

Moved to build section.

[lg93awdgsxer]

You have a 13second car in the build section...

I think you have a "fat" second or more left in there. The guy that won the stock appearing class at the Shootout has less mods than that.... And he's running a 14b..(11.90@114)


:dunno:

I should put my gayser in here. It has a MAF-t, and a 13g on it......


It runs 12.90's..... On 450 injectors.:eek: .... People are silly.

Just a quick question about the cams being 180* out... The head was still ok wasnt it..... All the valves still good.... Cause they should have been.

[lazylaser]

It's been a full two months now that this 2g has been on the road.

you have a "fat" second or more left in there.

Thanks, I know. I'm well aware of what times others are getting.


Just a quick question about the cams being 180* out... The head was still ok wasnt it..... All the valves still good.... Cause they should have been.

The valves were fine. The egt's did drop about 400 degrees after the timing was corrected.

[trinistylz2002]

^Man that's awesome. You have a sweet ride, hats off to you bro! I love the murda' look. Get some bigger pics if you can.

[Asmodeus]

You have a 13second car in the build section...


All of that was completely unnecessary. This thread was moved to the build section, it was not posted in here.

Read more closely.

[K_Mans_TSI]

There are a lot of 13s cars in the build section FYI.

Ben has a good base setup to see 11's soon.

[lazylaser]

A better time tonight.

12.65 @ 111mph

1.9 60'

@ Pittsburgh raceway park

Tools, subs, and spare tire were all in the car, along with the windows down.

[Asmodeus]

There now its a mid 12 second car soon to be 11, and it can be in the build section.

Good job Ben.

[MyBoostedGST]

Did you ever get a chance to get the laptop stand pictures? I am interested in seeing it more closely as I will be going link in spring.

[Black_ bullet]

Just checking out your thread. Nice work,

[lazylaser]

Somehow this shit is supposed to make its way onto my car.
New Koni yellows adjustable struts. and energy suspention master bushing kit.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2574.jpg
And
Free front and rear tower braces, polly sway bar bushings, eibach pro kit lowering springs, ingalls front and rear camber kits, new OEM rear hub, and slightly used koni rear "yellows" adjustable struts.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2559.jpg

[lazylaser]

Here is the last picture of her with the factory suspention, standing tall.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2555.jpg
Can you say wheel gap.
Front
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2567.jpg
Rear
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2565.jpg

The wheel bearing is damn near impossible to remove.
But that is captured in this thread.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211912&highlight=rear+axle

This is how she sits, currently under the knife, while I take the bus and ride my bike.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2569.jpg

[lazylaser]

For those that asked about the laptop mount, sorry I'll have to get better photos it is just one of those things that I forget to take pictures of.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2513.jpg
Also new a new powder coated valve cover from (ippkiss) stanley distribution. He also did my brothers mr2's v/c. It's on the car now and I'll take photos after to the other parts are on the car and I can clean up the bay.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_2541.jpg

[4g64fiero]

Nice times. Mid 12s are enough to beat 99.9999 percent of cars on the street anyways. High 11s are just to show off haha.

[lazylaser]

Nice times. Mid 12s are enough to beat 99.9999 percent of cars on the street anyways. High 11s are just to show off haha.

Haha, yeah it seems that we have to race within our own click to get a good race. I have to give credit to (Dustin) Asmodeus of Demon Motor Works for 100% of the tune on dsmlink, he made me a high 11 second car that I run mid 12's in :o I can't really drive or tune yet but I'm having fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stMlU-_Bn6o&feature=channel_page
I think the addition of 8 months of daily driving it and this new suspention will help me get rid of those ugly 2 second 60', I'll be using the NLTS this time around too.

[lazylaser]

I've added this info in another thread but thought that it belongs here as well, since I have no logs posted.
Again (I know right) want to thank Asmodeus for the results, this was while tuning for meth injection. More tuning has been done since this log but it is what I have on hand, leaner w/b reading, and slight adjustments to the airflow sliders, timing etc. Boost est is very close to what my gm map sesor reads. I would guess acutual airflow is closer to 44-45lbs min. This shows 46.9lbs min, and 2600hz on the GM maf.
(results not typical!) This is personally the highest flowing 16g I have know of, I'm ashamed that I can't drive well at the track.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/46lbsminona16g.jpg
The suspension is on the car as of now and the hub did get replaced, all fluids have been changed and she is ready for the track again, I'm just waiting on replacing the rear toe adjustment bolts so that I can finish getting the alignment.
I hope that the motor, stock trans, and 16g hold up for at least one season. Though I doubt all three will, I'm saving for that now.

[4g64fiero]

Head bolts will stretch first.


I called it!

[lazylaser]

Head bolts will stretch first.

Nice call, but you're a little late! HAha. I'm way ahead of you.
A while ago, I decided to go out and "lift" the head one night, just to find the limits of the stock headgasket and headstuds. A 30+ psi spike before the external w/g turned my OEM headstuds into peanut butter.

They have since been replaced with ARP's and a Cometic (MLS) head gasket.:D

[car_freak66]

This gives me hope for my current build. I wont be getting link till the fall time though. :( Nice times. Cant wait to see you make it in the 11s!

[4g64fiero]

Nice call, but you're a little late! HAha. I'm way ahead of you.
A while ago, I decided to go out and "lift" the head one night, just to find the limits of the stock headgasket and headstuds. A 30+ psi spike before the external w/g turned my OEM headstuds into peanut butter.

They have since been replaced with ARP's and a Cometic (MLS) head gasket.:D
I was talking about your arps.;)

I'll be watching this to see if they hold up. They have failed a couple of my friends with anything above 400hp.

[lazylaser]

I was talking about your arps.;)

I'll be watching this to see if they hold up. They have failed a couple of my friends with anything above 400hp.

Well, that is kind of how we have been checking my progress, since I'm too cheap to go an AWD dyno. We jokingly call it my “backyard dyno” when I break something. It goes like this, Hey K_man and Asmo, I broke this _____. Oh cool, that usually fails at XXX horsepower. Neat, I must be near XXX hp.
Kman is strongly against standard ARP’s. I only paid $40 for them so if I stretch them by making 400+hp on a 16g, I will gladly part with the money for some quality A1’s.

[Loner]

That is the DSm way, why pay for something that isn't nessacary, when you can have someone tell you how much hp you have.

[lazylaser]

Some neat things that should be added to this tread. This was done when the car was being built, I documented the process but never added them.
I made my fan shroud out of an aluminum road sign and some weather stripping from Lowes as a home for the single 2600cfm maradyne fan. My father cut it out on the water jet at his work.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2651.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2653.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2654.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2655.jpg


Here is another thing that I think is interesting, this is how I got 6an in the tank.

Stock and not going to work for me.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0832.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0833.jpg
So I drilled out the stock feed tube.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0834.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0837.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0838.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0839.jpg
Then I bored it out,
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0841.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0840.jpg
This is what I wanted to use to replace the rusty stock line with this.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0842.jpg
And used viton o ring seals so that the gas would not leak. (1 year later so far so good)
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0843.jpg
I needed it to use the stock sender and pump holder with the 6an and walbro 255hp. You’ll also see the full size barb in the background, I had to cut down the one I used so that it would fit.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0844.jpg
Placement of the viton o ring.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0845.jpg
I used tack and seal to help ensure that there would be no leaks.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0846.jpg
To get it to fit exactly right without using a bulkhead fitting I had to do some filing to make the barb fitting mate perfect with the 90degree bend while at the same time passing through the hole that was drilled out.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0847.jpg
Here it is done.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0848.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_0850.jpg
The barb had to be filed down so that a piece of gas line hose from the install kit would connect the top of the pump to the barb. It fit with the barb directly touching the top of the pump, I even put a bevel on the inside of the barb to have the FP feed sit perfectly centered on the barb.
:)


Also randomly pictured my 63mm throttle body from throttlebodies.com
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/newtb63mm.jpg

And a random shot of my MHI “real” evo 16g.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/MHI-1.jpg
This little turbo has been good to me.

[lazylaser]

The Talon has been beating me up lately, on time and money.
After dropping some cash on all the suspension parts I was going for broke, but the motor was holding strong and the transmission was holding up, so I spread myself thin. Not a good plan when your D.D. is the same car you take to the track.
I saw some blue smoke coming from the exhaust so I figured it was either going to be the turbo or the rings. A compression test shows that cylinder # 1 is down compared to the rest; it is sitting right at the service limit. So there is going to be no more racing for now, a rebuild is in order and I’m trying my best to gather monies.
This wouldn’t be so bad but I’m still working on the toe adjustment bolts that are seized in place. JNZ says that the bushing that the bolts go through cannot be bought. Prothane makes a bushing for this location but so far I have not been able to locate a seller who has this part.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/01rear_suspension_assembly.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2629.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2628.jpg
The car is lowered now, but because the rear toe is 3 degrees out on each side I have on different wheels for the time being so I don’t chew up my BFG’s.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2638.jpg


I can’t tell you guys how bad I want all of this to be behind me so that I can hit up the track.
When I do hit up the track it will be nice to not sit this high.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/l_c92f31e1f8504e7f8cf91393edd2b2da.jpg


Cliffs: I’m acquiring parts to build a forged 2.0 motor with fresh everything, I am broke, and have not wrapped up the suspension work.

[Jdog]

Man, I have no idea how I missed this thread so late on. I just wanted to add that you and Asmo have both been a huge help to me and I have a lot of respect for what you guys are doing! Good luck man, I hope everything comes together for you with the new build this year!

[Spoolin69]

The build is looking great Ben!! I just wish my FP3052 would have went your way! I like to see the progress that you have made. I do wish that I lived closer to you guys so I could suck some beers and wrench on the car as well. Keep this build going!! See you at the S.O. Or sooner...............

Shane

[lazylaser]

The build is looking great Ben!! I just wish my FP3052 would have went your way! I like to see the progress that you have made. I do wish that I lived closer to you guys so I could suck some beers and wrench on the car as well. Keep this build going!! See you at the S.O. Or sooner...............

Shane

The 3052 would have been nice, but at least I got your cam gears! They going on when the motor gets built here in the next couple weeks.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t40/Spoolin69/SellingHeadPics008.jpg?t=1223002483

[Stroked2G]

Lazy- Nice build I like it and I really like how down to earth you are about it. I will keep an eye out on this for sure.

[Spoolin69]

I love when parts go to a good home. :)

[K_Mans_TSI]

Did you get those bolts out? I can tell you how to do it :P.

[lazylaser]

Did you get those bolts out? I can tell you how to do it :P.

Yeah, I sawzall'ed them out then bought a similar bushing from JNZ (because you can't just buy that one, you have to buy the whole arm) and used washers to make it work well. Along with some new OEM toe adjustment bolts, and a lot of anti seize, I actually finished that and the rest of the polyurethane bushings last night when the sun was coming back up. I think shy of an alignment the suspension is done.

It is time for me to do the motor. My brothers Mr2 is in the garage as of this morning and we are pulling and building his 3sgte. So, before that is done I will have to buy the rest of my parts for a motor build, so I can start it the moment his car comes out of there.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I appreciate it.

[K_Mans_TSI]

Cool, we need to get a meet going.

[lazylaser]

The suspension is done, the good wheels and tires are back on making her stance everything I was looking for. (no more 4x4 truck)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/lowered.jpg

A walk around video of the Talon.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/th_lazylasertalonwalkaround.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/?action=view&current=lazylasertalonwalkaround.flv)

So right now I’m just collecting up the parts I will need to rebuild the turbo and the bottom end of the motor. So far I have wiseco pistons & scat rods.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2796.jpg

I also have fidanza cam gears (so I can finally dial in the bc272’s) a topline water pump and oem timing side pulleys.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_2797.jpg
I also have a new tensioner sitting around here along with other parts.

I still need quite a few things.
• 6 bolt full gasket kit cometic, with new head gasket.
• Timing belt, (Oem preferred, no Kevlar )
• New Oem Hyundai oil pump, (No topline)
• Acl main and Acl rod bearings
• Machine work from dlk. –Cleaning, freeze plugs, bore/hone, balance
• Tdo5 rebuild kit

Once I get these things in or done, I should be good to go. (no money)

Things are coming together with the car, not fast enough because I really want to go to the track and travel around this summer. I want it done like… Now.

I have also been kicking around some ideas for tinting the tail lights, but that is in another thread.
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214297&highlight=opinions

[lazylaser]

Had the Talon out the other night and got some quality photos taken courtesy of K_mans_tsi ; his car "the bluemeanie" is also pictured:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/bluemeanietsi/photo%20play/2talons.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/bluemeanietsi/photo%20play/2talons2.jpg

[K_Mans_TSI]

Too bad it didnt' make it back home very well last night.

[b00sted_spyder]

Just wondering, why a topline water pump?

[Asmodeus]

Cause an OEM water pump is way too expensive for the same thing. And it's only a water pump?

Now oil pump... different story...

[4g64fiero]

Do those topline water pumps come with metal or plastic fins?

[lazylaser]

Do those topline water pumps come with metal or plastic fins?

Are you trying to be funny or asking a real question? Just incase you were being serious, I checked. The fins are metal the casing is aluminum. Freeze plug looks to be metal, but is a different type than the fins, as the fins appear to be golden in color and the freeze plug is silver.


Just wondering, why a topline water pump?

Cheap.

I usually end up changing the timing belt and water pump about every 20,000 miles anyways (more like once a year), so it is not a big deal to toss on a new water pump if need be.

If it is no good,

DSMlink will light up warning lights if my temps start to get out of hand from something like a failed pump, so I'm confident that I'll be able to shut down before causing any problems if the topline pump turns out to be Junk.

I’m broke, and always have been.

It basically boils down to... I have used PCI and ITM parts for things such as timing belts, pulleys, tensioners and water pumps without a single issue. The topline pump was bought BNIB from a member on here for so cheap that I couldn’t pass it up. So until one of these non-OEM parts fails me, I will continue to use them.


Now don’t get me wrong, there are some parts that I will still only use oem, but through trial and error I have found a good combination of parts that work for me.

I hope that helps answer the question. Thanks guys for the input. I do appriciate feedback and questions as the car and its build mean a lot to me.

[car_freak66]

How much hp can really be gained on adjustable cam gears? 5-10hp? Im just curious. So this is a really nice build. Keep up the good work!

[lazylaser]

How much hp can really be gained on adjustable cam gears? 5-10hp? Im just curious. So this is a really nice build. Keep up the good work!

Thanks!

And I'm not sure about the power gains from Adj. cam gears, I am more interested in “dialing in” the Brian crower 272”’s that I already have on the car. I have HEARD that anywhere from minor gains to double digit HP gains coming from dialing in a set of cams. Brian Crowers are notorious for being off, and needing dialed in, although this does not make them a bad set of drop in cams, for after installing these cams my car it felt like…my jump from a 14b to a 16g. If I can pick up any gains from advancing the gears on the Dyno it will be nice to have that option although I really doubt I will ever get a chance to do that.

Update on the car. A compression test and leak down test performed earlier today went well. So well that I am going to try to push one more season out of this stock-ish 6 bolt bottom end. I don’t feel the need to make my compression numbers public, but they were within 3-4 psi of each other and well above the service limit.

The money that was devoted towards the machine work of the rebuild is most likely going to go towards a larger turbo. It looks like it will be a basic 50 trim.

So although a BB, Extended tip s256 OR a 35r would be sweet...I would like to keep things cheap! AND replaceable... So journal bearing is a must. Period. I'll deal with the spool vs cost, rebuildable trade off.

This “keep things realistic” is the same theme that went along with everything on the car that has been installed so far... so I won't be spending $1200 on a turbo...I can't bring myself to do it. IF something takes that 12 hundred dollar turbo out… I'm screwed.

I KNOW one thing for sure, I will be buying a journal bearing turbo, b/c it is fixable and less expensive. No 35r b/c I do not want to move too far away from a d.d. –able car by breaking driveline parts. The s256et is my dream journal bearing turbo, but just costs too damn much.

If I can do something just a little bit bigger than a 50 trim that would be sweet… so we can get a little more out of the car, once the motor gets built with the parts I already have sitting here…

But I still need to find that happy median. :dunno:

My overall goal and stopping point on the DSM platform is,

400+ hp and no more than 400ft/lbs of torque

This has been the HP/TQ goal the entire time that I have been building towards on this ride. If need be I will keep the boost low until I can afford a SMIM to achieve this lower TQ value.

My goal is getting closer and closer to being achieved with d.d. reliability, It might even happen this season if priorities and money don’t get in the way.

[Got Insulin?]

Looking outstanding, Ben.

[lazylaser]

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2talons-1.jpg


Looking outstanding, Ben.

Thanks GI,

The MHI evo 3 16g that I bought brand new has been good to me for the last year...But now it is time for a little more. I had a lot of fun pushing the 16g. And I will miss it.


This pte 50 trim will be here next week.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/BRcrLEwB2kKGrHgoOKiMEjlLmV6SyBJ-E17.jpg

My gasket kit and timing belt are here, so add those to the parts list for the motor build.
I'm just a set of rod/mains and an oil pump away from having everything.

[K_Mans_TSI]

Loved my PTE 50 trim.

[Black_ bullet]

But I still need to find that happy median. :dunno:

My overall goal and stopping point on the DSM platform is,

400+ hp and no more than 400ft/lbs of torque

This has been the HP/TQ goal the entire time that I have been building towards on this ride. If need be I will keep the boost low until I can afford a SMIM to achieve this lower TQ value.



Sounds like something Ive said a couple times :cool:

[Asmodeus]

I decided to stop over to lend a few small missing parts, and kill some time assisting on this turbo getting installed.

Here are some turbo install pictures! And some other misc photo's taken today.

The parts man cometh...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11170.jpg


Looking pretty empty in here...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11165.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11166.jpg

Turbo on... going back together!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11167.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11168.jpg

Up close and personal with the SCM50. :cool:
<Insert something funny random about the mightyness of the 50-trim...> uhm... I'm going to go with... WOOHAAA Got you all in check! :dunno:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11169.jpg

More complete...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11173.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11174.jpg



All done. Love this photo...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11182.jpg

2nd favorite...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/SDC11183.jpg

Start up video. (Turbo was primed by pouring oil down the feed line before hand. Noise is power steering pump.)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/th_SDC11194.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Misc%20Stuff/?action=view&current=SDC11194.flv)

[lazylaser]

Well, It hurts me to say it. The turbo lasted for about 30-45 minutes of driving, and two pulls.

It sounds like the turbine blades shot out the back. The fins on the intake side are destroyed, it is smoking to the point I couldn't see car headlights behind me.

The car builds zero boost.

After spending very much time fixing all the little things on the car and really taking my time to make sure everything was 100%, as I didn't want to touch the car for a long time. It came time to tune, asmo hopped in to do the tune. We got the coolant temps just right, then we got the fuel trims in line.

Everything was working well, good oil pressure, etc. So it was now time to do the wot via dsmlink.
Not a single count of knock, 13* of timing up top, we set the boost at 25 psi, well within the limits of my supporting mods. One test pull and everything was fine, a little rich so asmo leaned it out so we would be at 11.5:1 Af.

A second pull the car felt awesome, all the way up until 6500 rpm, redline is 7750.
It almost felt like a coupler tore, not quite blew off. So we pulled over and checked, Asmo looked at the log as I inspected under the hood for anything wrong.. After finding nothing we decided to do one last pull for the night as it was getting late.

I pull unto the onramp of the high way, get into third gear around 3000 rpm and give it full throttle. Lag, until 4200 rpm then the car turns into a rocket ship. I shift from 3 to 4th, for about an instant the car continued to pull then POP, it was not a sound it just felt like I blew off a coupler, but behind me was smoke, lots of it.

Ok I'm thinking coupler popped and it went rich, that’s where the smoke came from. I got off the exit ramp and went to give it gas so I could pull into a gas station and have a look. I got 0 boost and I thought I could hear i/c pipe dragging.

As we were pulling into the gas station that’s when I saw the cloud of blue smoking following me, not good.

There were no i/c pipes out of place, nothing was wrong under the hood. We pulled the filter off, and saw damaged blades; we took turns feeling the ungodly shaft play and knew it was game over. We checked the feed line, it was full of oil. It must have just been a crappy rebuild from pte, it was a brand new center section… I stretched myself thin on this turbo, and am in a bad place now; not real sure what to do. I'm pretty certain that when this turbo is pulled off there will be little to nothing left of the exhaust wheel.

Pictures will come in time; I have no real desire to touch the car. I have to be honest; I expected to break something else, not the brand new f’ing new center section.

My parents, yeah I’m 25, are asking me if this is really such a smart thing to have this toy as a d.d. and only car, I’m having trouble finding any way to disagree with them as this “tuner” lifestyle has me feeling like a junkie, with tons of time and money spent and little to show for it.

It’s not the dsms fault, she holds up just fine with 140,000+ miles on six bolt bottom end and 100% original 100,000 mile 2g transmission. Again I’m back to the same mindset… I have to get money quick so that I can spent it quick. I would like to use a 50trim but damn PTE did not make a good first impression with me. I have a 14b here with bad shaft play but it doesn’t smoke, that is my only option at this point.

[Black_ bullet]

That sucks and i agree with a lot of what you said, this is a tough hobby that gives questionable overall enjoyment.
Hope you get it straightened out, or at least make the right decision as to what would be next step.

[speed_demon]

Sucks to hear about what happened. Good luck.

[lazylaser]

Sucks to hear about what happened. Good luck.

Thanks guys for the support, I almost feel like I need it right now, as this all went down OH less than 3 hours ago...

SD, your sig now brings a tear to my eye.
Owning a DSM is like dating a stripper. Sure, it's fun to ride and show off but, it will break your heart once in a while. When this happens, keep your head up, and ask your fellow DSMtalkers for advice.!

My head is still up, I'm not thrilled about tossing much needed money away, and less thrilled about being totally defeated at the moment. I'm just glad that is was nothing worse, nobody died and the car still got me home. But let me check my wallet, I have $21 total and no job, thats the bad part.

[Jdog]

I know exactly how you feel. I had the car back together and running when midway through me driving to school the top neck of my radiator broke to pieces. I had to borrow some cash to even get a replacement and get her back together. I have 89 cents in my bank account :(. I completely understand where you come from saying its a junkie lifestyle but at the same time, once you hit sweet mother boost it all goes away. I hope everything goes better for you and heres to one day having our cars finished.....

[Asmodeus]

*Please remember to change your oil ASAFP!*


This was a sucky night. Lazy popped a coolant line earlier in the day so we spent most of the early evening making sure everything was OK. Temps were in line, and nothing funny was going on. Poor guy changed the thermostat, rad cap, and gave her fresh coolant JUST for shits and giggles to make sure everything would be ok for going out and doing some pulls. :dunno:

It was hot and humid so we waited for things to cool off.

We did the first pull at WG pressure (about 10.XXpsi) just to do a quick fail check on anything pertinent... (Like the WG etc) Then we backed the boost controller ALL the way back off... and did another pull. It's an old crappy mbc so it put us around 18psi or so. So he cranked it up and it was a lb or so over our target with a little taper. So I had him knock it down a hair...

Next pull it got a little weak towards the end of the pull but boost was about 24/25psi. It went to about 23psi at the end of the log. But the power seemed to fall off in greater proportion... so like he said. We stopped to check EVERYTHING. It was only kind of weaker so we thought we popped a line somewhere. Not like a HUGE leak / coupler etc.

I decided to do one more pull to see if we held our target boost / or blow off whatever was leaking since we looked at everything and couldn't find a single thing leaking.

I feel guilty honestly for green lighting another pull, but I think the damage was already done at that point. It came up on about 20psi then POOF... we popped a coupler. (or so we thought) I told him to get off the exit - we slow down and I hear tinging-ish sounds. He starts dodging bumps thinking he's dragging his LICP. I'm wincing at the thought of having to buy a new coupler / LICP as its dragging on the ground. (We forgot to ziptie it UP, just in case.) So I'm already feeling like an ass for not remembering / or reminding him to tie it back up.

As we roll into BP... we jump out and pop the hood. The pipe is still ON. I look up to see a thick blue smoke coming out of the back of the exhaust.

FUCK!

I can now hear the tinging turbo blades and what now sounds like rattling garbage sounds coming from the turbo. He shuts it down pulls the filter off. I notice a blade has a slight bend to it. FUCK! :mad: What the FUCK!?

I reach in to the flaming hot mother fucker to see if she's got in and out. Yep... tons. Side to side... yep... contact. FUCK! This is BULLSHIT. 3 pulls? Out of a freshly rebuilt turbo? Rebuilt by PTE themselves? :chair:

I'm thinking GTFO of here... no way. It must have not gotten OIL. I pull the feed line on the spot. It's about 200* and we take turns playing hot potatoe trying to get it off. He flips it upside down and oil pours out.

It had oil. :dunno: There was no oil out of the compressor housing either. Like bad seals / too much pressure / etc.

At this point we're both mystified. And just kind of stand there for a while shaking our heads in disbelief. It's not one of those moments you want to share with a fellow DSM'er... let alone one of your friends.

I vote it goes back to PTE. In fact I think I'm going to call them on Monday to go through a failure checklist.
THEN, you can send it back.

[speed_demon]

I'm with Asmo on it getting returned. Nothing was wrong on your part, PTE must of had not done something right if it went bad in less than 5 pulls.

[lazylaser]

I feel guilty honestly for green lighting another pull, but I think the damage was already done at that point.

Don’t… not at all, the damage already took place, you and I both know that. One last pull was good because at least I was with someone. Since it was going to happen anyways I’m glad it happened right then so we both knew that everything was 100% and all the info was right on dsmlink, if you weren’t there I would have been second guessing the events of the night for the longest time, wondering if it was something I did, or if I remembered correctly what happened.

3 pulls? Out of a freshly rebuilt turbo? Rebuilt by PTE themselves?
Yep, scary huh.

I’m going to call PTE Monday and see what they can do for me, I have to say I honestly feel AFAID to use anything from PTE from this point forward…even my PTE injectors.

Anything that has broken on the DSM in the past (aside from the TRE transmission) has been my doing… too much of this, not enough of that or being lazy. This turbo exploding was out of my hands and this is really a new feeling of WTF. My brother lost his WHOLE motor and turbo on the Mr2, due to something out of his control and he is worse off financially than me, his car is still motor less. I have to say I’m beginning to feel his pain. Mystified as asmo had said, captures the feeling of the moment.

What I mean, is that everything was perfect and the parts were well within their operating range yet I experienced epic failure with the least likely part.

I'm not one to jump on manufacturers, esp if it was something I did, I'll be able to make a better assessment of what happened after we go through a failure checklist with PTE, though I have a feeling they will be “Mystified” as well…

[91turbodsm]

Damn dude! I know how you feel about the money issue. My car was overheating and I have spent tons of money trying to get it fixed.

I also agree with Asmo about returning it. Especially if it went bad in only 5 pulls, and there is no sign of too much or not enough oil pressure.

Good luck with everything man! In the end, it will all be worth it.

Andrew

[Asmodeus]

You know I was thinking about it... and I didn't see a <50 miles or 5 pulls whichever comes first sticker on it... did you Ben?

[MindBlowin03]

I would definitely call PTE about this. I had a PTE turbo rebuilt a few years back(57 trim) and I read alot of mixed reviews on their rebuilding quality so I sent it somewhere else. I dont think Id ever use them.

[lazylaser]

I didn’t take the turbo off yet, I wanted to take a full day off from the car and rethink my game plan.

I took many pictures, but only one really turned out because it was dark and my camera never really works anyways.

As you can see the fins don’t look so hot, if you reach in and touch the wheel you can wiggle it around and it very easily touches the sides :(

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/Shaftplay.jpg

So now that this PTE 50 trim is absolute toast. I have to come up with something quick…As this is my d.d. and only car.

I have two turbos here, an evo 16g that has in out & side to side shaft play which also smokes, and a 14b that has in and out shaft play but does not smoke.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/14bvsevo16g.jpg

So, I think I’ll bolt the 14b on for the time being, but I’ll be using the ported evo 16g turbine housing.

Here are some pictures for comparison. All turbos are MHI, no ebay junk.

Here is the 14b.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/14b.jpg
Here is the evo 16g.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/evo16g.jpg

The unported 14b,
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/14bhousing.jpg

The ported evo 16g.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/ported16ghousing.jpg

Just to show how much better, the evo 16g turbine housing is over the unported 14b housing here are some side by side pictures.(Lighter, better material, much larger ports, etc.)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/portedevo16gturbinehousingvsstock14.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/turbinehousings14bandevo16gmhi.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/exhaustsoutlets14bvsevo16g.jpg

Since both turbos use the tdo5 exhaust wheel I don’t see a problem swapping the evo housing onto the 14b.

This might be a smart move on my part as I’ll be sure not to break a damn thing with the 14b as I continue to look for a job to support my habit.

Luckily I still have the j pipe and other misc install parts for this style turbo. So I can get it back on in a day.

After this is all behind me, I’ll go for the Borg Warner s256 like I wanted or something else from BW or holset being that I need a new exhaust manifold anyways.
By that time I might be able to ditch the mitsu bolt on and go t3/t4.
I'm going to ask around and see if anyone wants to trade a better condition 14b or 16g locally, for guns or dirtbikes as that is all I have worth anything, that way at least I won't have to bolt on this 14b "needs a rebuild" turbo.
Thoughts?

[Die-Civic-Die]

Damn, that f**king sucks dude.
POFS PTE turboes.

I'd rather run a (temporary) T3 adapter plate and a $700 ATP 50trim than an PTE SCM

[b00stedtalon2]

Damn, sucks to hear about the 50trim.

But I would definitely rock that 14b with the 16g turbine housing.

[lazylaser]

Since I bought this from a third party, not directly from a vendor or from PTE, I'm in contact with him as of 5 minutes ago, so far he has been a stand up guy, and he said he will fax over the reciepts from the rebuild and the warranty paperwork, which is great because I'm sure if I called PTE without that I would be SOL.

I'm building my "Killer" 14b right now, to hold me over.

[93_GSX]

Sorry to hear about all your work getting toasted. I had to give up daily driving my GSX for similar reasons, I just can't afford DDing my race car, I've got to many responsabilities.

[K_Mans_TSI]

Mine started smoking as well recently but I know that was my own fault. Speaking of I need to stop out 356 for some Brad Penn do you want any?

[WillWork4Parts]

Man that blows. Hopefully you get some satisfaction from PTE. Luckily you have some back ups so you won't have to hot step it while job hunting. That's pretty fucked up that we were just talking about how you don't like part with your old parts. This probably solidifies your perspective on that!

[lazylaser]

Well, as you all knew I had to take care of this sometime, I really didn’t feel like touching the car but I spoke with someone from PTE and they told me to send the turbo back with the invoice that the kid gave me. I don’t trust the guy I spoke with so I’m going to email/call back tomorrow and get more info or something in writing.

Now onto the devastation….

Fins bent.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b015.jpg

A paperweight.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b016.jpg

Oil in compressor cover.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b017.jpg

In the vice it is time for the moment of truth.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b019.jpg

Well the turbine wheel is in there, Kind of, I thought for sure it would have been shot out the exhaust.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b023.jpg

It broke the shaft and was just hanging out inside housing, fins bent to hell.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b029.jpg

Not a good sight on a turbo that is not even one full day old.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b030.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b025.jpg

The cast turbine housing is trash too.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b027.jpg

I’m shocked because the feed line had oil.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b005.jpg

The drain did too, both were free and flowing.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b013.jpg

So I don’t know what it is like sending a turbo into PTE, the guy on the phone was just like OK, huh, well send it back. I’ll need more info before I do that, like I need to know if it is covered under warrantee, what its going to cost if it’s not, etc. I’ll find that out tomorrow, when I call back I guess.

[K_Mans_TSI]

Unbalanced will do that.

[lazylaser]

Since this is a D.D. and my only car I have to do something in the meantime.
My 16g is smoking, thats why it was replaced by the now ASSploded 50trim... so the only option I had was to put on a 14b that I had sitting here. It could use a rebuild, but the fins don’t touch the sides and it does not smoke so I figured I might as well make it as cool as you can make a 14b.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b043.jpg

I ported out the evo 7cm turbine housing and the 2g o2 housing a bit more, they are huge compared to the stock 1g stuff that was on the car the last time this 14b saw service. I also had to port out the s.s. gasket.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b035.jpg

I have a tial external w/g but I didn’t have ten dollars to get the flapper welded shut. I went a long time with a brake spring holding the flapper closed, but it would still open a bit, I want rock steady boost control and the fastest spooling possible if I’m using this tiny turbo so I came up with this. I also didn’t want to have the flapper welded just incase I sell this as I have new actuators here.

This is a picture of the old brake spring and two pieces of metal I had made up with an idea in mind.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b038.jpg

After drilling them, I bent them in the vice.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b039.jpg

BAM, it holds the flapper shut, and tight, it won’t open like it did on my 16g when it was held with the spring.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b041.jpg

Now she is a hybrid, ready to rock and or roll.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b042.jpg

Just look at that exhaust opening, it’s sad this is only a 14b.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b045.jpg

When it came time to put the car back together I didn’t tell anyone or invite anyone over because I didn’t want people to see how sad I was that I had to use a pathetic 14b. The whole time my head was hanging pretty low because this is such a step backward. I have no idea how little hp I’ll make or if I should even try to max this turbo out as this turbo is not quite 100%.

Gosh it looks so little sitting in there.
I even had to use a coupler under another coupler just so the intake would fit.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b047.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b053.jpg

How is that for overkill on a 14b powered car. I guess I’ll be running ALL timing and meth up top, I really hope my cams can pull me along. At least I won’t break anything like transmission, clutch or axles with such a small turbo.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b051.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b054.jpg

Don’t worry Asmo I changed the oil and the filter, stepped up to 10w-40 I’ll see how that works out.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/50killer14b048.jpg

Oh well, I have the suspension and tires for it, now I have the tiny fast spooling turbo, I just need to put on my new brakes and then I’ll be ready to try my hand at :( …auto x.

I did a start up and walk around, I let it idle for about 7-10 minutes, no smoke or problems, so I’m just glad I have a car again without having to spend any money.

[Black_ bullet]

Yea man just be glad its running. 14bs can be fun too if you dont mind blowing it up soon :)

[Asmodeus]

Unbalanced will do that.

First words out of my mouth when I was standing in front of the car and we verified it had oil. I said they never balanced it. Couldn't have. Or, didn't put a bearing in it.

Lazy has the paper work confirming a 360* bearing... so they must not have balanced it... or ... balanced it right.




PS: Wow Ben that hot side is FUKT! THAT is what we heard that sounded like a pipe dragging. :eek:

They are going to have to replace the entire turbo this time. I'd see if you could toss in some money and end up with a 57 trim... we could have a lot more fun with that.

[123abc]

Haha. 14b ftw!


Thats some pretty crazy damage to that turbo. Hopefully they'll replace it for ya.

[91turbodsm]

CARNAGE!! Hopefully you can send it back and everything works out good for you in the end. But until then, have fun with that 14b.

Keep us updated.

Andrew

[lazylaser]

Will do, It's sad though because I don't even have enough cash to ship it back to PTE at the moment. I'm that broke.

I haven't even driven the car with the 14b yet...I just shake my head in disappointment everytime I think about going for a ride.

I'm thinking holset hx35 once money comes back.

[K_Mans_TSI]

Ben you should consider the BW turbos.

[lazylaser]

Ben you should consider the BW turbos.

Its a toss up between BW and holset, each day I change my mine from one to the other.

[91turbodsm]

Ben you should consider the BW turbos.

I dont know how much money he is getting back, as it is none of my business; but if he doesnt have enough money to ship a turbo,then a BW is probably a bad idea, unless its used and decently cheap. It might be a better idea to pick up a decent hx35 like he said, and save the rest of the money incase of another emergency. Just my 2 cents though.

Andrew

[Jdog]

This thread makes me feel terrible about my excitement over putting a 14b on my car from the T25 :(. It could be worse, you could be with that stock piece of junk.

[K_Mans_TSI]

I would like to think that regardless of what he purchases this should be a case for promoting buying new.

[lazylaser]

Don't feel that bad, I only have a 7.8:1 compression ratio, and have had the taste of all that is good in the world with my other turbos + riding in Kurts ~650hp car and Asmo's 'shine runner. I was flowing airflows that my dreams are made of, ones that this 14b on its best day won't ever reach.

Jdog you should have an 8.5:1 compression ratio if you still have the stock 7bolt. Going from the t-25 to a 14b will be a good jump for you. I wouldn't know what the t-25 feels like, because I bought my 2g as a shell and the previous owner had already removed the t-25.

Kman the whole center section of the 50trim was replaced, the dude had paperwork to go with it when I got it. And you could tell it was never run before, so I don't know. I usually buy brand new when I can, next time will be new from a vendor.

Well, I decided to take the car for a spin to see if it was as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Here is what I can say about the 14b in the evo3 turbine housing, it spools fast.

This is what I was seeing according to my gm 3bar map sensor and DSMlink:
3300 rpm @ 26psi, was 20lbs/min
3600 rpm @ 26psi, was 26lbs/min
4100 rpm @ 25psi was 31lbs/min
After this the car would break up, clearly getting too much fuel according to the logs.


Here is a short, terrible video, the car was breaking up, and my cams don't kick in until later, (4000~4500ish, I don't remember) so don't expect much. Also I have NO desire to put the dash back together at this time.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/th_14bspool.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/?action=view&current=14bspool.flv)

My car is really not tuned for this 14b, nor will it be, because there is no need to waste time on doing so. It could be a fun little turbo for autocross, as its power is instant. I like drag racing, so this is a no go.
Random walk around of the car with the 14b,
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/th_cutelittle14b.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/?action=view&current=cutelittle14b.flv)

[91turbodsm]

So if your not going to tune it for the 14b, then I am assuming your not going to be on it for very long? If your going be on it for a minute then it might help to tune it for the 14b just for gas mileage, experience, and a little bit of joy? lol

Might help pull you out of your bad thoughts for temporary time sake.

But on a side note, damn man that thing is breaking up bad!! The lopey idle sounds awesome, and that laptop mount looks very nice!

Andrew

[Black_ bullet]

Hey lazy want to race haha. Oh wait, dont feel bad my cars not even running lol

[Asmodeus]

Any word from PTE?

[frankozz]

I'm interested on what PTE has to say about this as well.

[danl]

Run the 14b, they go low 12's at 120+ on a bad day. On a good day, solid 11's. :)

[lazylaser]

Run the 14b, they go low 12's at 120+ on a bad day. On a good day, solid 11's. :)

No word from PTE, yet.

Yeah 12's, 120mph, that all sounds awesome BUT...I just don't see how the hell that is possible with 32-34 lbs/min and a 3200lbs car.

Not that I have a f'in choice, my old 14b is squealing right now, so I bought another 14b. This one looks like its in good shape. I guess we'll push it and see where I land in the 1/4 mile.

At this point whatever it takes to get back to the track, I might as well just use this turbo and get used to the track, launching, tuning, etc. without breaking things or spending money.

[frankozz]

That sucks about PTE.... Makes me want to sell my 5031 50 trim before I install it and go through this drama like you did... I can't afford to have this turbo granade after a couple pulls...

[K_Mans_TSI]

Run the 14b, they go low 12's at 120+ on a bad day. On a good day, solid 11's. :)

You're still alive?:eek:

[lazylaser]

HA! my 14b no longer makes any boost. It was on its way out from the moment I put it on. It needed a rebuild so I was really lazy when installing it. I didn't hook up any water lines...I guess you can't do that.?..

I have this other 14b sitting here, I have to get it on my talon and get it running before I leave for the shootout friday. It does not have any shaft play, but it has oil on the turbine fins and I can see where the oil was puddled up and baked onto the center section...I have low expectations for the longevity of this 14b, but with no other options, I'll bolt it on and hope for the best.

Pics of the next 14b.
As I bought it
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/alexscamera099.jpg
Tore down, you can see its filthy with oil...I hope it was a bad feed line and not leaking from the turbo.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/alexscamera101.jpg
LOL, where is the rest of it?
It is so f'in tiny I can't believe it can actually make boost.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/alexscamera100.jpg

If this turbo works, and is healty, I promise you guys that I will make the absolute peak amount of power that I can from it. Then I use it to get some more seat time at the 1/4 mile and play in auto x. Then we'll all have a better idea of what times and traps are possible from the 14b on a full weight awd 2g.

So tomorrow after work I'll tear the car apart, put the evo 3 turbine housing on this 14b and bolt it back up so I can leave 3pm friday for the Norwalk S/O.

[lazylaser]

Ok, the second 14b went on and got me to and from the DSM shootout without any issues. The car has been running fine but boost is only ~10psi off of the tial wastegate spring, I can't have this turbo fail so I'm keeping it really simple for now.

Now the moment you have all been waiting for.

I've been in contact with PTE (precisionturbo.net) we worked out a deal (I was at their mercy) at half price on a new centersection, and they would change my turbine housing to T3 with a four bolt exhaust, since the last one (mitsu bolt on) was not salvageable. They said the "45 minute" turbo was because of not enough oil pressure?!? No ballance shafts being fed from the head, oh well.

I guess due to my lack of funds that I'll be giving the PTE another shot, since its the least expensive option. This time I'll be feeding from the oil filter housing.

So journal bearing, 50 tirm, t3, and I'll have to make a new o2 housing for the four bolt, unless I can find one for under $100.

I just don't see what else I can do... I want a holset the one I'm looking at is still $125 more than getting a "new" 50trim back from PTE. I also don't have that $125 dollars at this time, plus I still have to have some money to pay someone local for making an o2 housing that will work with the new t3 setup. I don't need this turbo to last forever, but a full year would be nice. I paid PTE today, I had to make money before I could spend it, so we'll see how quick I get the turbo back from them. It would be nice to get out of the 12's some time this year.

[K_Mans_TSI]

When mine was smoking the first time I asked them about oil pressure from the head and the guy yelled at me. He said you NEVER feed PTE turbos from the head, and he said it with a force like thunder lol.

[lazylaser]

Like I was saying, while the turbo was at PTE I decided to change things up a bit. I'll be going to a t3 setup, keeping the w/g on the manifold, and ditching the mitsu bolt on stuff.

I got the last of my parts today. (Misc. install parts not pictured.) Using an old turbonetics cast manifold.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/Bigbosttime.jpg

More T3 goodness pictured!

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/t3flangenomoremitsubolton.jpg

I was waiting on this, an eBay 4 bolt on-center o2 housing.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/fourboltoncentero2housing.jpg

And one last picture of the "T3 50 trim" just to show that this is, in fact, larger than the 14b that is currently on the car.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/turbotime.jpg

IDK when I'll get a chance to go round 2 with the PTE and install it, but one thing is for sure... I'll be feeding from the oil filter housing.

[WillWork4Parts]

Damn lazy, I've been waiting for an update since we left PA. Can't wait till you get that bad boy on. How long you reckon the wait my be until you get it all together? Can't wiat for the results! GL brotha. I'm sure all will work out this time.

[lazylaser]

How long you reckon the wait my be until you get it all together? Can't wiat for the results! GL brotha. I'm sure all will work out this time.

Thanks for the well wishes Nick. I'll have the car on the road with the new turbo by the end of this weekend. So, by the 13th, maybe sooner until then I'm still going to rock the 14b.

[Got Insulin?]

Uh-oh, somebody's stepping his game up.

[WillWork4Parts]

Sweet. Sooner than I imagined really. As for the 14b, you gotta rock what you got, right? That's how Ill be rollin, rockin what I got for now. Oh, I'm so close I can taste it! I'm waiting until I've got my bearings, pistons and gaskets before I start my shitty lil build thread though. And hey, thanks for everything!

[Asmodeus]

Did they send the turbo with the drain hole facing up?

?

[lazylaser]

Did they send the turbo with the drain hole facing up?

Yes sir, nothing is in the right spot or even close. Comp. cover, turbine housing, center section, the whole turbo needs re-clocked before it gets put on the car, thats how it showed up. Maybe they thought I was going to be using a topmount manifold. :dunno:

Its not a big deal, it will take me 5 min to fix.

[lazylaser]

Alright, I decided to start on project "50trim 2nd attempt".

I know that changing everything is going to mean than the angles are going to need worked on
and that this is NOT just going to be a bolt on affair like it was with the dsm bolt on.
Here you can see how my dump tube was routed with the SBR cast manifold.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3240.jpg

And where my egt was mounted through the JMF heat shield, I’ll drill the turbonetics manifold for EGT, but I’ll have to lose the heat shield which I’m kind of sad about…

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3241.jpg

Here is the easy part, removing all the old Turbo stuff. It took about an hour by myself.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3242.jpg

I’m glad I won’t have to use any water lines with the PTE.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3250.jpg

Also pictured more stuff that took time and money to get right that won’t be reused.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3251.jpg

…A moment to compare the 14b vs. the 50 trim to know that when it’s all done that it will be worth it.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3248.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3249.jpg

Now the “fun” part…Mock up time to see what fits and what doesn’t.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3254.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3259.jpg

Luckily the turbine housing and the inlet cover fit without hitting the block!!!!!
It’s damn close though.

Turbine housing
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3257.jpg

Inlet cover
As you can see I found a plug for the water line and used a lot of high temp rtv to keep it plugged.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3258.jpg

The turbonetics exhaust manifold really tilts the angle where the turbine housing bolts to it, it’s an odd angle so let’s see how the $100+ ebay four bolt on center o2 fits.

Ebay o2 housing for t3 four bolt on center turbos.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3260.jpg

When the bolt holes are lined up, there is a bad angle between the exhaust and the flange that it mates to on the o2.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3263.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3262.jpg

I really wish I had a v band on the turbo side, I’m going to have to get someone to cut and weld the Stainless steel o2 to fit.
Here is what it looks like on the turbo when the downpipe flange is mated flat.

The flange on the turbine side needs rotated about an inch.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3265.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3264.jpg

I also know why the turbonetics cast manifold is only for 2g’s, it sticks the wastegate up so damn high.
And again has some crazy angle to it over how the SBR cast manifold positioned the wastegate.

Just barely clears the hood of a 2g.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3270.jpg

When my dump tube sits how it used to the angle at the flange is all wrong, the dump tube will have to be changed/welded to fit.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3269.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3268.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3266.jpg

Another few pictures of my fan, I love this fan.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3272.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3273.jpg

I also found this little Gem under my car, my boot split I’m glad I planned on doing brakes soon anyways at least the car will be jacked up and the wheel will be off, so I’ll already be ¼ of the way there.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3271.jpg

:dunno:Now I do have a question about all of this,

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3253.jpg

I need to know where I can get the cleanest oil to feed my turbo from my 6 bolt oil filter housing.
(Never mind the filth, I had a power steering incident)
There are a couple ports, I need to tap into the cleanest for the turbo oil feed line, and another one for my oil pressure gauge, while keeping the idiot light even if it needs moved. Ideas? Suggestions? Links?

[lazylaser]

Got my answer to my last question in this thread:
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218476

And got things set up with a tig welder so I can fix the o2 housing and the w/g dump tube.

[lazylaser]

Turbo is on. W/g dump tube and o2 houing are still going to need tweaked, I'm headed to see my welder tomorrow evening, so the car should be 100% running for the weekend.

If I can steal Asmodeus away long enough for a kick ass tune, I might be able to get to a test & tune, too.

And while I'm under the car replacing the torn boot, I'll be able to slap these on.
Some fresh HAWK pads, and some DBA sloted rotors, thanks to demon motor works.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/102_3323.jpg

[Got Insulin?]

If the OFH is making you miserable trying to get that plug out, heat it. It's aluminum, so it'll expand just fine.

[lazylaser]

Thanks for the heads up, I got it out and the new 90* to AN fitting in and tight.

I put an allen key in there, then tried with all my might to break it free. Then, I put the closed end of a wrench on the end of the allen key, when it still didn't move I grabed the air gun and an allen bit for the air gun, bam that sucker was free and shooting oil all over the tools that were still under the car in no time.

[Got Insulin?]

Thanks for the heads up, I got it out and the new 90* to AN fitting in and tight.

I put an allen key in there, then tried with all my might to break it free. Then, I put the closed end of a wrench on the end of the allen key, when it still didn't move I grabed the air gun and an allen bit for the air gun, bam that sucker was free and shooting oil all over the tools that were still under the car in no time.

Sounds like a blast. My plug was starting to strip out, even with the allen key, so I just torched it, and it let go like a fart that you were trying to hold during the SATs.

[frankozz]

Damn, good to see that you no longer will be using a 14b :) Keep us updated on this.

[lazylaser]

I’ll update this.
I put the car back together.
Here is how I fixed the CV boot, it was way easier than I thought it would be.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3334.jpg
I unbolted the upper control arm. Cut the old boot in two then Tugged until the rest of the CV came free.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3340.jpg
I crawled under the car then I used the snap ring pliers to separate the cv from the axle.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3337.jpg
This is the bad part the new autozone boot was not really OEM style for our cars. So I cut what was left off of the old boot, and used rtv to provide a seal then combined them to make what I needed.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3335.jpg
Filled it with the grease they gave me, and re attached the cv, reinstall was just the opposite of removal.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3341.jpg
After an hour long drive no grease leaked out so, I’m going to guess all went well with this fix.

[lazylaser]

Got the new brakes on, I’ve always been a fan of hawk pads, these are DBA slotted rotors.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3342.jpg

After those were done… I decided to have a little fun with an old 3” downpipe.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3330.jpg

I had to do something until I could get the s.s. o2 housing to bolt up to the s.s. exhaust. (eBay exhaust flange angles are nothing to write home about)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3333.jpg

Busting out my favorite tool the sawzall.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3331.jpg

Now its about the right size.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3344.jpg

There we go.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3351.jpg

It was all I needed to be able to have in order to drive to my friends shop so he could tig weld up the o2 housing and open dump tube off of the tial.

Who wants a video of it idling? I know I do !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRwheiHJ5g0

Man if I had this lift all the time, I would have way more fun with cars, that’s for sure!
It’s kinda cool to see her up in the air while we were tweaking the exhaust.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3352.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/my1stpeanut/2g%20awd%20build/102_3353.jpg
(just noticed that you can see the yellow reflecting from the road sign that I used to make the fan shroud, lol.)

As fun as this is…I think I’m going to put the 14b back on so that I don’t break anything and focus more time on finding a job and chasing girls before I get too old. At least for the winter.