Some questions about an Evo.

[rad_dsm]

So I have some questions about evos, I have been thing about buying one after I get out of school to use as a daily driver and still keep my dsm. I don't know anything about evos but they can't be too much different then a dsm. If I buy one I won"t be modding it too much, wheels, tint, boost gauge? etc. If there is anything I should know about evo please let me know thanks. What kind of mile per gallon do evos get stock? Can I put on intercooling piping with out having to retune it? Stock evo bovs are like the 1gs correct? Can the stock bovs handle higher then stock boost? Thanks.

[x569]

So I have some questions about evos, I have been thing about buying one after I get out of school to use as a daily driver and still keep my dsm. I don't know anything about evos but they can't be too much different then a dsm. If I buy one I won"t be modding it too much, wheels, tint, boost gauge? etc. If there is anything I should know about evo please let me know thanks. What kind of mile per gallon do evos get stock? Can I put on intercooling piping with out having to retune it? Stock evo bovs are like the 1gs correct? Can the stock bovs handle higher then stock boost? Thanks.


YOu want EVO X or IX or VIII? Keep in mind EVO X has the new MIVEC. 4g63 was retired in EVO IX.

For my EVO IX
You don't "have to buy" anything unless you want to, really. Boost gauge would be nice.
As far as "what to know". Owners won't let you test them probably (if you go for EVO IX or VIII).
I get 24-26MPG (stock EVO IX).
I don't think you have to retune with new IC piping.
Stock EVO BOV's are not the same, I measured my 1G spare BOV and they are different.
Unknown about the boost

[STikillinTsi]

I was told to stay away from the 2003 evo's. They need some upgrades in the transmission and transfer case. That is about all I know as far as problems with a completely stock one.

[rad_dsm]

YOu want EVO X or IX or VIII? Keep in mind EVO X has the new MIVEC. 4g63 was retired in EVO IX.

For my EVO IX
You don't "have to buy" anything unless you want to, really. Boost gauge would be nice.
As far as "what to know". Owners won't let you test them probably (if you go for EVO IX or VIII).
I get 24-26MPG (stock EVO IX).
I don't think you have to retune with new IC piping.
Stock EVO BOV's are not the same, I measured my 1G spare BOV and they are different.
Unknown about the boost

I would like to buy a IX, I like the looks of them the best. That is what kind of gas milage I thought they got. Thanks. What is the best way to tune evos? Thanks.

[Asmodeus]

www.openecu.org

ecuflash / coupled with evo scan.

A well driven IX with a full exhaust, a GOOD drop in filter, IC piping, and some increased boost and a good tune will do 11.9X

I would recommend;
boost gauge
wide band
full exhaust
-not buying an intake (most of them screw with the car and require specific tuning to overcome the driveability issues that sometimes come with them.)
IC piping
MR bov (Is like a 1g's in holding well)

And getting VERY intimate with the stock ecu (ecuflash)

Flashing the stock rom is the way to go. You can even opt to buy a $30 GM 3 port boost solenoid and control boost with the ecu.

You will be lucky to get anywhere NEAR that kind of gas mileage around town unless you drive like a grandma everywhere.

[dougdeez]

If there is anything I should know about evo please let me know thanks.

My advice to you is to stay away from the 03's and early 04's. Check out the TSB's for those years if you want to know why. I was in a rush and bought a 03 regretting it quite often.

Can I put on intercooling piping with out having to retune it?

Yes, but like most performance upgrades with the Evo you need a tune to yield the best results.

Stock evo bovs are like the 1gs correct?
Both made by Mitsu;)
For some reason they thought a plastic heap of scrap would get the job done at first. They soon after upgraded to a metal diverter valve in the Evo IX.
When you start looking, just make sure to check the car out well. Make sure all TSB's and recalls are taken care of unless you like visiting satan frequently.

[90BlueGSX]

Wait, why you need to retune the car if you just put an open air filter and hard intercooler pipe :confused:

[Asmodeus]

Conical filters aren't so much the problem as certain hard pipes for the intake. Evo maf's are particularly sensitive in comparison to the DSM. DSM you pop an intake on and all is well. Evo's aren't so friendly about it.

And like anything tuning is big. There is no excuse on an evo not to tune it though. $80 cable, free software. Done.

Its not like you have to drop $600 + eprom on dsmlink. And you can basically do everything dsmlink does.

I'm so used to it now I almost prefer it. I miss dsmlink's logging ability though, nothing I've touched really logs like link does... and it makes it annoying when you have to deal with shitacular graphing of some of the programs. Or port the shit into other programs... instead of it being right there in a neat little perfectly scaled graph right on the screen.

For the actual tuning part though, ecuflash gives you total control of the timing and fuel maps. Not just the wot stuff.

The latency adjustment is tricky at first, but eventually you get the hang of that too.

[rad_dsm]

www.openecu.org

ecuflash / coupled with evo scan.

A well driven IX with a full exhaust, a GOOD drop in filter, IC piping, and some increased boost and a good tune will do 11.9X

I would recommend;
boost gauge
wide band
full exhaust
-not buying an intake (most of them screw with the car and require specific tuning to overcome the driveability issues that sometimes come with them.)
IC piping
MR bov (Is like a 1g's in holding well)

And getting VERY intimate with the stock ecu (ecuflash)

Flashing the stock rom is the way to go. You can even opt to buy a $30 GM 3 port boost solenoid and control boost with the ecu.

You will be lucky to get anywhere NEAR that kind of gas mileage around town unless you drive like a grandma everywhere.

So will any of the items that you recommend make the car less reliable?
So the stock evo IX are good for stock boost and the mr bovs are good for higher boost? Am I reading this right?
And what are the differnet trim levels of the evos? Thanks alot guys.

[x569]

Depends on how you treat your car, if you keep your foot on the floor at all times, then of course it will be less reliable, any car would have that problem. Do you want to race around the streets, endangering lives of innocent bystanders? Or do you want to obey the law and drive the posted speed limit and show off the car and how awesome it is and everyone once in awhile "get on it"? I would suggest the latter.
You can look on mitsubishicars.com for trim because I don't remember all the details other than GSR, SE and MR.

[rad_dsm]

Depends on how you treat your car, if you keep your foot on the floor at all times, then of course it will be less reliable, any car would have that problem. Do you want to race around the streets, endangering lives of innocent bystanders? Or do you want to obey the law and drive the posted speed limit and show off the car and how awesome it is and everyone once in awhile "get on it"? I would suggest the latter.
You can look on mitsubishicars.com for trim because I don't remember all the details other than GSR, SE and MR.

I agree on the latter too. Can you wrench on evos just like dsms or they harder to work on?

[punisher]

Evo's are just as easy to work on as a dsm.

[90BlueGSX]

Conical filters aren't so much the problem as certain hard pipes for the intake. Evo maf's are particularly sensitive in comparison to the DSM. DSM you pop an intake on and all is well. Evo's aren't so friendly about it.

And like anything tuning is big. There is no excuse on an evo not to tune it though. $80 cable, free software. Done.

Its not like you have to drop $600 + eprom on dsmlink. And you can basically do everything dsmlink does.

I'm so used to it now I almost prefer it. I miss dsmlink's logging ability though, nothing I've touched really logs like link does... and it makes it annoying when you have to deal with shitacular graphing of some of the programs. Or port the shit into other programs... instead of it being right there in a neat little perfectly scaled graph right on the screen.

For the actual tuning part though, ecuflash gives you total control of the timing and fuel maps. Not just the wot stuff.

The latency adjustment is tricky at first, but eventually you get the hang of that too.

thanks i just learn something new :)

[Asmodeus]

Evo's are just as easy to work on as a dsm.

Not exactly. After a while I guess, but initially there are some differences. Mainly things are harder to get to. Less room, more complicated annoyances... like the clutch line install. HA! Try getting your hands in there to twist that banjo in. Or a 05+ Evo clutch job with ACD. Its a nightmare.

Some of the stupid stuff too like sway bar bushings... up front are impossible to get to. Or the fact the front bumper has to come off to change head light bulbs...
:rolleyes:
Luckily it comes off fairly easily in comparison. If you don't have the undertray on I can have it off in 5 min. But the undertray is about 20 of "those" clips... :chair:

Rear motor mount is the same as a DSM. Impossible to get to. Bleeding the brakes isn't exactly an entertaining experience either, its literally twice the work. (And it shares a reservoir with the clutch line!) So you know what that means...

Honestly modding the evo makes it 10X easier to work on. I recommend the Buschur pipes if and for the only reason it requires you to buy a small battery and tray. This clears out so much crap so you can get into places I can't begin to explain how nice it is. Delete all the emissions junk and life gets easier still. No more EGR line blasting off at 24psi of boost. In the nether regions of sharp and hot parts on the IM.

I don't have the stock air box or intake which free's up alot of space too. Not what I would recommend, but I don't have ANY maf either. (Speed density / maft pro) And if I want, like right now... I don't have ANY intake either.

Which REALLY gives you room.
:)

And brackets... oh lord... half of them can go from minute 1. 1/2lb bracket to hold a wire? No thank you Mitsubishi, that's what zip ties are for. Don't forget the 8lbs of truck sized evap canister shoved in the rear end... (the reason usdm evo's don't have AYC:mad:) Don't worry it only vents gas fumes into the rear frame of the car...

Who's idea was that? I mean come on...

[cs82685]

And like anything tuning is big. There is no excuse on an evo not to tune it though. $80 cable, free software. Done.


I do wish I knew how to tune. Like you said it's so damn cheap if you can do it yourself.

[x569]

Not exactly. After a while I guess, but initially there are some differences. Mainly things are harder to get to. Less room, more complicated annoyances... like the clutch line install. HA! Try getting your hands in there to twist that banjo in. Or a 05+ Evo clutch job with ACD. Its a nightmare.

Some of the stupid stuff too like sway bar bushings... up front are impossible to get to. Or the fact the front bumper has to come off to change head light bulbs...
:rolleyes:
Luckily it comes off fairly easily in comparison. If you don't have the undertray on I can have it off in 5 min. But the undertray is about 20 of "those" clips... :chair:

Rear motor mount is the same as a DSM. Impossible to get to. Bleeding the brakes isn't exactly an entertaining experience either, its literally twice the work. (And it shares a reservoir with the clutch line!) So you know what that means...

Honestly modding the evo makes it 10X easier to work on. I recommend the Buschur pipes if and for the only reason it requires you to buy a small battery and tray. This clears out so much crap so you can get into places I can't begin to explain how nice it is. Delete all the emissions junk and life gets easier still. No more EGR line blasting off at 24psi of boost. In the nether regions of sharp and hot parts on the IM.

I don't have the stock air box or intake which free's up alot of space too. Not what I would recommend, but I don't have ANY maf either. (Speed density / maft pro) And if I want, like right now... I don't have ANY intake either.

Which REALLY gives you room.
:)

And brackets... oh lord... half of them can go from minute 1. 1/2lb bracket to hold a wire? No thank you Mitsubishi, that's what zip ties are for. Don't forget the 8lbs of truck sized evap canister shoved in the rear end... (the reason usdm evo's don't have AYC:mad:) Don't worry it only vents gas fumes into the rear frame of the car...

Who's idea was that? I mean come on...

Lots of good info there. I'm about to do the clutch on my EVO. Yah, and those stupid clips on the undertray, what a mess, I just did a new FMIC and had to take off the undertray twice and finally just left it off. Those stupid plastic clips are the WORST invention for holding plastic pieces together. In some places I have replaced the clips with small bolt/nut combination. Spefically, the clip directly in front of the front tires on the undertray/bumper cover.

But not to get off topic...Since I have worked on Talons for 10 years and my EVO for only about 10 days (because of the first mod, the FMIC), I can't judge quite yet...Its cleaner, I know that!

[Asmodeus]

I do wish I knew how to tune. Like you said it's so damn cheap if you can do it yourself.

Buy the cable send me the rom.

Then you just need a WB and Evoscan or logworks if you buy an innovate WB.

I used logworks for the first year because I couldn't get ES to run on my old laptop. I know have a new one and it will run anything I want.

Logworks is simple. The problem with the ecuflash stuff is it moves SO fast. If you get out of the loop for a month or two, you're dead in the water. In the last year it has gone from CEL on knock. To full map switching at the push of a button. Using EDM roms on USDM cars... PSI targeted boost control with the stock ecu...

Periphery edits that disable emissions routines... (think egr, evap)
Rom edited rear 02 simulators...

If you own an Evo, and you don't like EvoM. Fine. But you are shooting yourself in the leg to not spend an hour a day in just the ecuflash forum. If you don't want to go anywhere else that's fine. But you NEED to get your ass in there and read. Some of these guys are simply amazing with what they come up with.

[Asmodeus]

If you DON'T want to tune the car... well, this is what you're getting... this is basically a stock 05 VIII rom. Its got CEL/NLTS/Valet mode edited into the rom. It didn't quite match what I originally had as my "stock" rom. But, it will give you an idea.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Ecuflashstockmaps.jpg

Think that's rich... shit son... those were the HI octane maps.. IE no knock.
See also, YES it gets worse...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Ecuflashstockmaps2.jpg

Now, to be fair, I've not mentioned lean spool. Basically from 2500-7500 the computer will automatically lean anywhere from 1/2 to a point A/F to make the turbo light up. However, this doesn't equate to the kind of consistent fueling one would desire when tuning something to the limit. I shut it off along with many other people. Lighting up the stock twinscroll 16g requires maybe breathing on it the wrong way. I don't see the need. I can light off the 30R without it. I'll take the more consistent fueling.

Also the maps are kind of rough, they only go to 260 load and are repetitive. Meaning how many cells do I REALLY need to devote to vacuum... and idle? Luckily you can simply pull a column or two out and add more on the big end where you need them more. IX's come scaled to 300. And they also have mivec maps obviously. This is just the meat of it. There is 60 other tables to do with idle, the maf scaling, smoothing, injector scaling, latency, boost tables, etc etc etc. Down to the ISC stepper table. All at your control. Not bad for free. And like I mentioned... the roms can be edited to ADD new features. Like NLTS, CEL/on knock... map switching... you name it.

[cs82685]

Buy the cable send me the rom.


When the time comes, that would be awesome :D I'm still stock for now, I know there's some gains to be had as is as well as some features to add, but currently I'm just crossing my fingers to have some issues warrantied, fucking mitsu.

Then you just need a WB

Already have the wideband, but not yet installed I just pull the zeitronix off the eclipse every once in a while to check my boost on the evo.

Logworks is simple. The problem with the ecuflash stuff is it moves SO fast. If you get out of the loop for a month or two, you're dead in the water. In the last year it has gone from CEL on knock. To full map switching at the push of a button. Using EDM roms on USDM cars... PSI targeted boost control with the stock ecu...

Periphery edits that disable emissions routines... (think egr, evap)
Rom edited rear 02 simulators...


wow it has been a while since i've read anything on tuning on evom!

BTW those charts/graphs are so damn intimidating

[Asmodeus]

If that's your worry you can flash the car back to stock in about 2.3 seconds.

If your aim is to keep it under the radar, I would read the stock ecu controlled boost thread(s). Grab a JDM 3 bar map sensor, Run the GM 3 port, leave the stock lines and BCS intact - just remove them from the car. Use a DSM A/C plug to plug into the stock BCS harness so as not to disturb anything. (And be completely reversible in 5min or <) Bump up the boost, lean the car back out to a steady A/F. And call it a day. I'm not much of a mivec tuner, but you have to understand I have an 8. So its not often I have to sit down and tune a IX.

The shit is easy once you dive in. Way easier than you would expect.
Rpm is Rpm. Load is simply airflow. (complicatedly a mixture of airflow and other things) But that's no big deal. Who cares what it is. All you do is trace the path your car takes through the cells. Which naturally is Top left cascading down to the right. (on a stock evo it will spike to a higher load, and slowly taper off to a lower load.) Mine doesn't, but, in case you haven't noticed I've changed a few things... lol!

So all you do is change the cells to be what you want. (IE A/F, timing) I don't stop there, I smooth the whole thing so no matter where you land in the map, (SEE: part throttle, driveability...) its a smooth transition if you blast back into the throttle, or roll into it... or ease out of it... or snap the throttle shut.

Its no different than anything else except its all RIGHT in front of you. Look at the graphs associated with the tables to get an idea of how choppy the stock ecu is. Don't get me wrong, I've seen worse... but... it can be cleaner.

Here is an example of a shake down smooth map I ran to ease the transition into meth. I was trying to focus on tuning it for meth so I wanted no abnormalities from the existing tune to interfere. The path the car takes isn't exactly like the arrows obviously, and sometimes the ecu interpolates between cells, or crosses the path of more than one at once and factors in between's. (as well as other factors running in the back ground) But it may make more sense for you to visualize where its going. Keep in mind this isn't a magical final tune map. Also the timing is scaled to 8250 because I don't rev past 8. Why extrapolate to 11k? Load is rescaled to 300 (instead of 260) note the missing columns in the lower load portion. Also, my car reads a lower load ever since I installed maft pro. So if the average car is pegging 300+ load at 28psi. I am maybe seeing 260, 250. So I've also shifted the values in the maps <--- to compensate. Otherwise I would be running 200 load timing at 260 load. = bang. In the end this is good because it gives me more head room without losing any resolution. (deleting more columns to add up top, or having to spread the load to jump from say 250-280, then 280-310. ) Instead of neat stock 20 load increments.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Asmodeus6/Ecuflashmethshakedown.jpg

[punisher]

Not exactly. After a while I guess, but initially there are some differences. Mainly things are harder to get to. Less room, more complicated annoyances... like the clutch line install. HA! Try getting your hands in there to twist that banjo in. Or a 05+ Evo clutch job with ACD. Its a nightmare.

Some of the stupid stuff too like sway bar bushings... up front are impossible to get to. Or the fact the front bumper has to come off to change head light bulbs...
:rolleyes:
Luckily it comes off fairly easily in comparison. If you don't have the undertray on I can have it off in 5 min. But the undertray is about 20 of "those" clips... :chair:

Rear motor mount is the same as a DSM. Impossible to get to. Bleeding the brakes isn't exactly an entertaining experience either, its literally twice the work. (And it shares a reservoir with the clutch line!) So you know what that means...

Honestly modding the evo makes it 10X easier to work on. I recommend the Buschur pipes if and for the only reason it requires you to buy a small battery and tray. This clears out so much crap so you can get into places I can't begin to explain how nice it is. Delete all the emissions junk and life gets easier still. No more EGR line blasting off at 24psi of boost. In the nether regions of sharp and hot parts on the IM.

I don't have the stock air box or intake which free's up alot of space too. Not what I would recommend, but I don't have ANY maf either. (Speed density / maft pro) And if I want, like right now... I don't have ANY intake either.

Which REALLY gives you room.
:)

And brackets... oh lord... half of them can go from minute 1. 1/2lb bracket to hold a wire? No thank you Mitsubishi, that's what zip ties are for. Don't forget the 8lbs of truck sized evap canister shoved in the rear end... (the reason usdm evo's don't have AYC:mad:) Don't worry it only vents gas fumes into the rear frame of the car...

Who's idea was that? I mean come on...

True, but its all a trade off. There are a lot of things that are easier on an Evo than a dsm. 05+ clutch job do suck balls, I doubt there is very much they could have done to make that more difficult to access. I've always liked working on my Evo a lot more than I like wrenching on my 1g.

Mine also had aftermarket intake and it really does free up a lot of room. I replaced the undertray clips about once a year, they are not worth the hassel at all.

I've always liked OpenECU and Evoscan for tuning. There are a ton of options out there.

[cs82685]

If that's your worry you can flash the car back to stock in about 2.3 seconds.

If your aim is to keep it under the radar, I would read the stock ecu controlled boost thread(s). Grab a JDM 3 bar map sensor, Run the GM 3 port, leave the stock lines and BCS intact - just remove them from the car. Use a DSM A/C plug to plug into the stock BCS harness so as not to disturb anything. (And be completely reversible in 5min or <) Bump up the boost, lean the car back out to a steady A/F. And call it a day. I'm not much of a mivec tuner, but you have to understand I have an 8. So its not often I have to sit down and tune a IX.


Thanks for the advice. If/when I do decide to mod it my goal is to keep it all reversable. Hell I'm using a turbo timer harness to power my wideband so I wouldn't have to cut into any stock wiring.

One other thing, I know it's simple to flash it back to stock, but I've been wondering this (and haven't searched for an answer), but if you were to have a different map loaded and then switched back to the stock map, is there a way for the dealer to see that the stock map was loaded at xx time and date, kinda like when you can see when a file was last updated on your computer, or can they just see that it's the stock map? I would imagine not because I've never heard it mentioned, but it's always been in the back of my mind.

[Asmodeus]

I highly doubt it. Highly highly... doubt it. Although I can't say for certain.

I would watch with where you power and ground the WB. Ground needs to be as close as possible to the actual o2 ground. IE: the exhaust for most accurate readings.

Punisher we have the same rom. All 05's are 96940011. Or did you move to the EDM one for map switching?

[ignited_alchemy]

lot of good info here, so i'm keeping this thread up in the air.

[Got Insulin?]

lot of good info here, so i'm keeping this thread up in the air.

Thanks for post whoring. There was totally no need to "keep this up in the air" because there was at least 18 posts in the last 24 hrs.


FUCK.

[STikillinTsi]

GotInsulin: He is a Mod in training. Lol

[rpc91GSX]

Thanks for post whoring. There was totally no need to "keep this up in the air" because there was at least 18 posts in the last 24 hrs.


FUCK.



Him and Dannyrampage both.


On topic(sort of >_>) this thread is so informative! It makes me so jealous, because now I want an Evo even more. 4 doors + 4G63 = heavenly. :D

[Got Insulin?]

Him and Dannyrampage both.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that notices. Both of them make me want to jump on front of a train.

GotInsulin: He is a Mod in training. Lol

Lulz, I can haz dreamz?

Nah, man, I'm just a concerned member that is totally for this site and it's reputation. But, enough of that, on with the EVOs!

[lost spyder]

Lots of good info there. I'm about to do the clutch on my EVO. Yah, and those stupid clips on the undertray, what a mess, I just did a new FMIC and had to take off the undertray twice and finally just left it off. Those stupid plastic clips are the WORST invention for holding plastic pieces together. In some places I have replaced the clips with small bolt/nut combination. Spefically, the clip directly in front of the front tires on the undertray/bumper cover.

But not to get off topic...Since I have worked on Talons for 10 years and my EVO for only about 10 days (because of the first mod, the FMIC), I can't judge quite yet...Its cleaner, I know that!

Bring a lot of beer. You'll need it to calm yourself down and have some patience to deal with that oh so lovely evo TOB. Yea thats right, i had the honor of buying my evo with a blown exedy twin disk. Well sorta, it still held power. But it was chattering itself apart since there was no disk left.:tat: