BlackBullet's 09 build... [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

Black_ bullet

02-18-2009, 05:37 PM

Well so after 20 thousand miles of me beating on this old tired 6bolt motor and daily driving it at 20+psi, its finally time for a rebuild. She just couldnt hold on any longer...

This was the direction I originally intended to take the car-

new oem headgasket
O-ringed block
9:1 wiseco pistons and Eagle H-beam rod w/ arp bolts from extremepsi.com
Kelford 272 cams ( sold my BC272s )
BC springs and retainers kit
new oem freeze plugs
ACL tri-metal main/rod bearings
oil pump seal and new oem oil pump
front main seal, rear main gasket, rear main seal
new oem timing belt
intake manifold heat spacer gasket
and all the machine work and balancing and resurfacing....

Turns out the bottom end's only getting a stock ish rebuild to save on cash.

Heres pics of previous progress:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...02009i/007.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...i/DSC01984.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...02009i/043.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...02009i/044.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...02009i/049.jpg
A little in and out shaft play, but we'll see how long she holds up to the future 25+psi spikes on the ethanol...
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...02009i/047.jpg
(Ignore the date on the pic, I never set that on the cam ^)
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...02009i/052.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...02009i/054.jpg

Vids of my car can be found on streetfire.net or youtube.com of how it ran with the old setup on 93 octane.

Thanks for reading.

Black_ bullet

02-24-2009, 11:59 PM

Update.

So this is how the trannys and tcase was painted but Im thinking of painting it more of a silver color .
(*Pic is a link)

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/th_001-2.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/?action=view&current=4290ed76.pbw)

The only attention I think Im going to give this transmission is new TOB bearing, and new oem 3rd and 4th with new syncros depending the current condition whenever I open it up. Im going to try to keep the torque I make in the future right around 400 ft/lbs and not much more as anymore than that and thats were I hear most of the tranny headaches begin to show face...

Im working on quite a bit of weight reduction and will have more pics up soon!

pboglio

02-25-2009, 11:08 AM

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 01:24 AM

Looks good. If I were to do it over again, I'd bleed a little boost away from the wastegate to soften the torque hit from the EVOIII 16g I run. This is where you get into trouble with tranny's. I don't believe built transmissions are worth the extra money.

What's your budget for the entire rebuild?

Yes I am coming to that conclusion. Not too long ago I was researching into Evo gears and what I could do to get a little more out of the tranny, and though I cant honestly throw out a number for budget, I know a built tranny or constant repairs is definitely not in my budget. Im actually all about reaching that end goal and finishing this car, Im not into the continual build stuff, I have other priorities and goals in life...

Anyways, like said earlier, the only attention the tranny might get is "new" oem 3rd and 4th, just in consideration that my current 3rd and 4th is weak and beat up and aged, and since those are the weak gears it would be wise...

Power wise, end goal for this car is 450awhp and around 400ft/lbs of torque. Looking at it from another angle though, with 400ft/lbs of torque as my set limit, I probably wont push the e316g to 30+ psi spikes like some people do and I may stop at just 25-26psi and use the benefit of the ethanol for only more aggressive timing advance, and leaner afr as any additional boost beyond that point probably isnt contributing much to making any more peak power and instead just making a more wicket torque curve that could very well hurl me past my 400ft/lbs of torque limit, even if the horsepower is less than 400awhp, though I hope the jmf race smim keeps the low end torque more tame.. .:tat:

Is this why your car is down Pboglio, transmission related?

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 02:13 AM

More pics-

This is the shitty ebay intercooler Ive been dealing with this whole time. It was on the car when I bought it. And me putting black spray paint on it cant be good for its efficiency.
Some how I managed to get a clean 93 octane 25psi 16g tune on the thing though.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02105.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02108.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02110.jpg

I have a new FMIC core on the way now. Ended up picking up the VRSF fmic core ( basically SSAC core), which should be a bit of an upgrade from the core Im coming from ;)

lazylaser

02-26-2009, 02:33 AM

Holy, long route I/C piping B.B. Good luck with the build, make sure to clean up the engine bay while that motor is out.
Setting a goal is one of the best things you can do for yourself. It keeps you from breaking things by getting carried away, and saves money in the long run, ie not having to buy twice or buying more than you're going to use.

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 02:46 AM

Another thing Im working on is serious weight reduction.
Yes I know its not for everyone, but this is just a weekend racer now and I want it light as possible. Well car was already down to 2900 with driver ( I weigh 150.lbs) before it came off the road.

Now i've recently removed rear bumper support, windshield wiper motor and rod and wipers, and everything power steering related.
Im debating on whether I want to convert to a manual rack or depower the power rack...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02101.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02101.jpg

An educated guess would tell me Im down to 2830 ish with driver right now, and I still have some more weight I plan on removing. Id like to get it down to 2750lbs with driver without resorting to carbon fiber or lexan but removing more weight at the point Im at is growing tedious.

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 03:06 AM

Posted same pic twice by mistake ( Mods ) ^

Anyways to give you an idea of how I reached this weight, off the top of my head what was already removed from the car prior to the stuff I recently removed-

All A/C components
All heat components
All sound deadner, and padding on the fire wall
any various metal brackets, including the extra ones found under the dash
no emissions components or battery tray
no front crash beam
act alum light weight flywheel
no rear seats or rear seat belts
no rear speakers
no padding under carpet
fp mani is a tad lighter than the evo3 cast mani I had
rx7 rims
no heat shielding under the car
manual seat belts

Not to mention the non sun roof Laser is a little lighter from the factory than the other dsms.

Even with all this stuff removed, for the past 2yrs I was actually driving this car daily many miles a day with no problems or annoyance up until I welded the diff lol. It actually doesnt look like a track whore from interior or exterior, still has all interior panels and dash, its just missing stuff... :)

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 11:29 AM

I did manage to pick up a spare 92 awd transmission from a local for 90 bucks.
He said it needed a new input shaft bearing, and the center diff in it was toasted.
We cracked it open and Im going to see whats good in it, but worse case, you cant go wrong with having a spare tranny laying around. This will also be a good chance to get some practice in tinkering with a tranny myself.

The VC wasnt too hard to get out, but the small gears holding the middle case on were hard to get off.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/297.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/310.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/315.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/311.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/316.jpg

pboglio

02-26-2009, 12:24 PM

frankozz

02-26-2009, 12:49 PM

What turbo will you be running bro?

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 10:56 PM

Hehehe. You thought taking apart the tranny was a big deal. Try disassembling the gear stacks:eek: Now that's fun:D

Yep, my car is down for what now "appears" to be an exploded ACT 2100 clutch disk. That EVOIII 16g is just too phsychotic for my drivetrain, I'm finding weak points all over the place at this point. I'm like you, I just want to drive it on the weekends, hit WOT a few times and park it, and look at it every once in a while. Can't even do that without breaking something.

Let me know how that 9:1 compression ratio works out, I might consider it on my ride if I also go E85?

2100s suck for what were trying to do. My last pressure plate and clutch setup was something very very similar from ebay and it could not take launching at 300awhp and whatever torque I was making.:tat:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/018.jpg

Ouch :dunno:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/016.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/014.jpg

It was fun driving home from the track thats 45mins away from my house with that clutch setup eaten up like that ^

My current clutch setup Im running is a typical ACT2600 and Im using the South Bend Straight Kevlar clutch disk. It has very good street manners and holds up well, but I need a new pedal assembly I was having disengagement issues and i have it somewhat rigged right now for longer throw. Before the cars back on the road it will be taken care of properly. I dont have money to be killing clutches prematurely...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/003.jpg

I put about 2k miles on it and my new disk so far, from the end of last yr.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02131.jpg

Even after all those launches, you can still see some of the cork break in material on it. Seems like it will be a decent clutch and hold up for me.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02130.jpg

My ACT streetlight 12lbs Aluminum flywheel.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02129.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02128.jpg

FrankOzz - I will be running the e316g for awhile until it blows or until I get money to get a hx40 on the car.
I was going to do a hx35 originally for the quicker spool and since my goals arent very high, but on the contrary, I WANT 450awhp on pump gas so Im bent on the hx40 at the momment. Should be a fun turbo with my setup.

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 11:09 PM

Heres my gutted out shitty track whore interior:P

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02127.jpg

You gotta have one of these!!! ;)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02137.jpg

New wideband location... It used to be in the cigarette lighter hole, but I got tired of taking my eyes off the road to see my AFR.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02133.jpg

Black_ bullet

02-26-2009, 11:37 PM

Ill keep the pics coming so I dont bore you guys too much...

Before

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02124.jpg

After
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02141.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02142.jpg
This is what burns the chips for my tuning software (Evilscribe).

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02125.jpg

I guess someones STI is getting a FMIC finally. lol
( Sold my boy my old core I just pulled off for cheap.)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02148.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02118.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02116.jpg

Not to go off subject too much though, but yea its a clean car, lightly modded.
It was fun for me driving this car back from Miami back in Dec 07 when we took a little rode trip to the H.I.N.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02123.jpg

Black_ bullet

02-27-2009, 12:08 AM

Evilscribe tuning program-
If you understand reading load rows and gm/rev, this was the tune on the car on 93 octane- 24ish psi before it came off the road.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/93octanetuneon16g.jpg

The AFR would always come up as 11.3 on the wideband, there were some slight discrepancies with the afr value on the computer vs what actually came on the wideband, and obviously the gm maft, and tb shaft seals leak played a part in that.

Heres a pull of that tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPO8cKoMeJ4&feature=channel_page

Real shaky I know, my friend didnt hold my shitty cam too good, but Im just as bad...

I never did get to see what that setup wouldve did on race gas with the boost controller cranked up more and another 4-6degs of timing throughout the power band.

drifte

02-27-2009, 01:04 AM

Black_ bullet

02-27-2009, 01:14 AM

Loved that launch vid you had. Pretty sure I could hear your fuel pump on that 3rd launch from outside, and it looked to be a really nice launch. Good stuff, if you get bored you can check out my build thread on here too, not very interesting but I tried to keep it full pics!

Thanks.

What was holding back my launches a little is

1.) Im not a good launcher, you can hear in the vid I either held the ebrake up too long, or slipped the shit out of the clutch for a good second before I even started rolling.( But then again my clutch adjustment is all fudged.)

2.) Falken Azenis suck ass when it comes to launching, especially in 40 deg weather.

I dont fling this car around corners anymore so screw these tires, Im probably going autocrossing this summer and Im going to try to get some of my moneys worth out of these tires but after that Im switching to straight line purpose tires that hook. I cant imagen launching with my "end goal" power level and hooking on these.

Black_ bullet

02-27-2009, 08:35 AM

Heres my current Falken Azenis RT 615s 225/50/16
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/007-4.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/car%20pics%20starting%204%2024%2008%20and%20forward/DSM08/001-3.jpg

That picture is from before I installed them 1500k miles ago or so. THere great for handling, even with this funky welded diff ( my car looks to slide now with the welded diff ) they still managed to bite hard around corners as not too long ago when I was testing out the welded diff feel I took a S turn on a back rode at like 60mph, and the car felt nasty due to the welded diff but the tires would not screech or let go. If I had crappy tires on that S turn it wouldve went off the road for sure! lol

Just dont get these if your into drag racing or straight line, the side walls are too stiff.
The tires I had before that I really liked are the Hankook RS2's in the same size, and they were a little better all around ;)

Black_ bullet

02-27-2009, 04:23 PM

"Dont put a SMIM on a 16g car they say" hmmmmm :)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC01935.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC01934.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC01932.jpg

This one is actually my boys smim that just came in for his 60-1 1g Talon, we help each other on our builds, but since it looks so pretty I have to post pics of it being that I order the exact same one. ( jmf race) :sneaky:

Black_ bullet

03-01-2009, 03:23 AM

Cant wait till I have everything done with this build, the only thing that somewhat bothers me is I am doing so much to my car at once now that when I get it back on the road I wont know in detail what gains/loses and differences were resulted for each particular change/part . I do know the car should perform pretty damn good, and much better than it did before, especially with the additional weight reduction done to the car, on top of a fresh higher compression, lighter internal motor etc. Hopefully I can make some progress on this motor soon ...

lazylaser

03-01-2009, 03:40 AM

I am doing so much to my car at once now that when I get it back on the road I wont know in detail what gains/loses and differences were resulted for each particular change/part...

Yeah, that would be nice, but.. I'm sure you'll find some way to get past that the 1st time you hit the track. There are usually a few unforseen bugs to work out that come after an "all at once" build like this. But, Its not as bad as people make it out to be. Although it is nice to just go back to the last thing you changed to fix a problem if you're doing the parts one at a time. You don't have that luxury. Oh well, Good job so far.

Black_ bullet

03-01-2009, 11:24 AM

Yeah, that would be nice, but.. I'm sure you'll find some way to get past that the 1st time you hit the track. There are usually a few unforseen bugs to work out that come after an "all at once" build like this. But, Its not as bad as people make it out to be. Although it is nice to just go back to the last thing you changed to fix a problem if you're doing the parts one at a time. You don't have that luxury. Oh well, Good job so far.

Yes true, but not just with fixing and diagnosing problems but with also measuring the gains or differences in the power the car makes from part to part. For example, I am also getting those Kelford 272 cams in here and taking out the BC272s and I basically wont be able to specifically tell how the cams differ in feel of the car since Im going to also be 100lbs lighter than when I was on the road with a whole different bottom end, a smim, a 3in tb, a better fmic core and short route piping ( 3in on uicp side ) and a few other little small changes here and there.

I think some people on this forum may be interested to seeing what I can do with a evo316g with the mods Im stating I will be running in addition to what I already have. If I do get the e85 in here and really get serious on the tuning part, I will definitely hit the dyno and we'll see how feasible it is for a regular guy like myself to hit 400awhp on this little turbo. :D:chair:

But after I blow out the 16g on the dyno and do a couple months of street driving with it and maybe tracking it a couple times I def think Im switching to a HX40, and I hope I can pull my 450awhp on 93 octane goal which like said before is were I want to stop with the car. Im not sure how many people reach 400awhp on the 16g nor 450awhp on pump gas with hx40s so this might just come off as "psst street dreaming" to some, but id rather set my goals high and come up short than set regular goals and achieve regular results... lol

Black_ bullet

03-03-2009, 09:06 PM

Quick update:

Got my VRSF FMIC in. ( Basically the SSAC 2G core.)

Heres another pic of my old JRC 27x8x2.75 ebay fmic.
V
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02139.jpg

Old piping

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02114.jpg

Man, and thats just the hotside. Thats a lot of piping from my old intercooler setup. I should have plenty of pipe to play with for the future in case I need it.^ :)

**Heres my new VR Speed Factory 28.5"x10"x3.5" fmic. Going to look too pretty on my car, dont think Ill be spray painting this core black.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02191.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02192.jpg
There was a little more plastic and shit in there when I first took it out, Im not too thrilled with the packaging quality but at least nothing was damaged... ^

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02193.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02194.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02197.jpg

Nothing too serious, but you cant beat the price, I only payed 187 for shipping with just the core which is a great deal. I am fabbing up my own piping, Im doing the hotside with the left over extremely long route licp from my old fmic setup, and I am going to do a 3in UICP out of exhaust pipe ( in which Ill be painting black.)

Due to the short route of this new core, I will only need about 2 and a half ft worth of 3in exhaust piping, thus the air will travel out the intercooler outlet, and straight thru the 3in GM maft attached to a 3in coupler, then whirling thru a 3.25in 90 deg bend coupler (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/index.php?cPath=3&osCsid=4ee07288b4025fc4698523a230a6d073). which will connect to the 3in fftec TB i will soon order, that will finally allow airflow to make its way thru the 3in jmf race smim.

Sure I could just run 2.5 upper intercooler piping into the gm maft but figured Id try something different. Ill just use one of my 3in to 2.5 reducer couplers from my gm maft to connect the 3in uicp to the fmic outlet pipe. Either way it should definitely perform well for what I am going for since I am not building a top dollar high budget build here. This SSAC core works for a lot of people, and should still be a decent improvement over the previous core and piping setup that I was running...

Black_ bullet

03-05-2009, 12:10 AM

Made a little progress with the intercooler today.
As a lot of you know, the 2g SSAC style fmic isnt "Plug & Play" with the 1g, and there is modification that is needed.

Well you have to cut out the radiator support on the passenger side of the car behind the over flow bottle, which is fairly easy, as well as cut a shit load of metal on the driver side of the radiator support so the LICP came wrap around from the jpipe to the core's inlet piping. That part was a bit of a pain, and if you mind hacking up your chasis then its not for you. Me, I really dont care and I used a electric metal cutter disk and went at it. If you dont have electric tools for this it will be a nightmare .

This is the driver side area that needs to be cut. The hole tow hook thing needs to be cut up or removed to run the LICP for the FMIC.

( Excuse the horrible quality of pics, you'll notice they get progressively worse as my friends camera starts going to shit the more I used it.)
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02212.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02213.jpg

I already had a little of the sheet metal cutout or bashed in up to that point ^ If you own a 1g you kind of know what I mean.

Now on this next part, I pretty much cut the top part of the metal and bashed it in with a sledge hammer and then cut some more until I removed a good bit of it.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02214.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02210.jpg

Once again, I dont care so much that Im hacking up my front end to fit the fmic; but admitingly I did start to get carried away.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02217.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02219.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02215.jpg
Took some Anger out on the car lol.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02223.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02221.jpg
I actually removed a good 5-7 lbs worth of weight today in cutting .
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02228.jpg

(Like I said, cam is going bad. Pics start getting distorted some)
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02224.jpg

1badgvr4

03-05-2009, 12:11 AM

What do you want for all that old piping?

Black_ bullet

03-05-2009, 12:11 AM

This new core looks nice on 1gs.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02248.jpg

The cores way thicker and taller than my old one. I had the bumper on for a 2nd to see how it looked and it def bulged out some.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02249.jpg

You can see the cold side outlet right here, and were metal was removed from radiator support.
I couldve been a little more surgical with all this cutting but I was impatient.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02246.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02237.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02236.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02238.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02239.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02250.jpg

I ended up cutting up the driver side a lot more than you see here ^ , I want to make sure that I have plenty of room and no issues with running custom LICP.
I also painted everything back flat black after I got finished.

And last but not least, I got my Silicone Intakes 3.25 90* coupler in that will go from 3in gm maft to 3in TB.
This old busted cam is almost done here but at least you get the idea.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02296.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02300.jpg

Black_ bullet

03-05-2009, 12:12 AM

What do you want for all that old piping?

Likely going to reuse some of it to construct my LICP.
Idk what parts, or how much i need yet, I havent tried to mock anything up yet, but pm me about what your thinking?

Black_ bullet

03-13-2009, 06:21 PM

So I just recently convinced another Dsm'er (99gstracer on Tuners) to try out the Kelford 272 cams instead of picking up some Bc280s for his build and he did some research on them himself and was sold just like I was. We then were talking about the springs and retainers ordeal and he gave me permission to copy and paste some of what he told me in pm.

I sell the Crowers and Manleys where I work. I've personally tested the Crowers on a valve spring tester, and their claim of 15% over stock was dead-nuts-on accurate. The Manleys and BC's are very close in specs. The BC's probably outperform the Manleys and Crowers by a couple percent - not much. So, none of them are really going to be much better than the other.

I've decided that I'm either going to go with the Supertech duals or the Kiggly behives. I was talking a bit with my buddy Dan tonight and he convinced me to go with a high RPM capable spring just in case I ever swap out the compound set-up with something slower spooling. I'm going to call Oliver tomorrow and get it all ordered

So according to him the BC springs and retainers arent much better/worse than its competitors.
Obviously the Kiggly stuff has been known to be top tier from my research so far, so Im not quite sure what Im going to do yet as far as springs and retainers. Im on the fence, Im tempting to just do it right do it once and get the better stuff on the market, but price is always a factor...

Black_ bullet

03-20-2009, 09:48 PM

Head still looks decent. BC272 cams in there.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02098.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02099.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02099.jpg

It is important to run good oil in your motor.
I just got my moms old spare car as a daily driver, its a 01 Mazda 626 with 80k on it. But the only downside is it was poorly maintenance and for whatever reason it built up hella nasty sludge worse than I ever seen. So now my money that was going to be in buying a DD will be used in getting this motor fixed.
Its in the shop, should be running good in a week Id guess! Its a really nice car though, it was bought new, its automatic tented windows, alarm, and nice tan factory paint with working a/c and heat and power everything, and its 4cylinder and gets decent mpg! Whatever expenses on the motor will be definitely worth it.

Heres some pics I snapped of it when I took off the valve cover to see the sludge build up it had.
Compare the cleanness of my 140k mile 1g head in the top 3 pics to a 80k mile Mazda 626 head running cheap oil lol.
Ok let me stop making it sound good, my 1g head was rebuilt about 20k ago, the bc272s maybe have 5k on them.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02094.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/DSC02092.jpg

LMAO.... And the sad thing is she said she changed the oil on time, and I changed the oil on it a few times myself I recall. Must've had some kind of oil passage flow problem?

Black_ bullet

03-20-2009, 09:51 PM

Ok a little update.

Was mocking up the front bumper again to see how it would be with the fmic.
Damn I cut a whole bunch of material out of the bumper and its still somewhat having fitment issues lol.
Is there any Lasers running the SSAC 2g FMIC core?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00025.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00024.jpg

I cant even push it all the way back, the bumper needs to go back another quarter of an inch to line up with the holes and be bolted back on. LoL.
Oh well Ill figure it out, Im not too concerned, probably will just have to adjust the fmic a little.

Black_ bullet

03-21-2009, 11:41 AM

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00008.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00007.jpg

Piston #1
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00009.jpg

Piston #2
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00010.jpg

Piston #3
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00011.jpg
Piston #4
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00012.jpg

Piston tops dont look too bad considering the age, mileage and how hard I pushed it.
The rings still had 140 across the board on a cold compression test before motor got pulled.

Black_ bullet

03-21-2009, 06:23 PM

Yea when I took out the pistons and rods and rod bearings they were actually in great condition, and so were the cylinder walls.

Well now finally for the bad news.

Metal in the oil pan.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00014.jpg

There wasnt that much oil shavings, the reflection in this pic below makes it appear worse than it is, but its still bad.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00013.jpg

Unfortuantely Id prefer the rod bearing to be bad as turns out the engine had damage to the main bearings. I guess this is were age shows its ugly face.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00018.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00019.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00020.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/p_00021.jpg

The cell phone pic doesnt do it justice though, but they were pretty worn on all of them and is definitely where the metal shavings in my oil pan came from.
I dont know if this classifies as "spinning" a bearing though?

Now I am hoping when I take my crank to the machine shop that its not to the point were it needs to be cut because then I am going to have to find another crank as we all know cut cranks are a bad idea.

Good thing though, it wasnt at high rpm or anything when I first hear the noise, it was during start up leaving my friends house. We let it idle for a little, and there was no repetition to the bad noise in the bottom end, it mainly just sounded raggedy during startup and with quick stabs of the throttle during idle. I didnt even drive home from his house after that, I instead just cut the car off and had it towed home and it was only started again once since then to back into my garage.
What Im getting at is maybe I shut her down before any real damage was done to the crank, maybe it doesnt need to be cut?

Anyone have any experience with this type of thing ( main bearing failure. )

spare tire

03-22-2009, 12:54 AM

Glad to see you got started on tearing the engine apart, I wish I could see the bearing pics. Can you pick up the shavings with a magnet?
How was the oil pressure? As for turning the crank thats not a big deal, Big Ted is running a cut crank in his car I believe.

Black_ bullet

03-22-2009, 06:10 AM

I dont know about oil pressure because all I have is the stock gauge. The stock gauge never read low though, I dont have balance shafts so if anything it was good oil press.
The oil level was always were it should be, and I always ran Mobil1 15w50 full synthetic in which now Im learning was probably too thick for cold cranking, which is the hardest time on the engine, or so Ive heard. I hear I should've been running like 5w40 full synthetic.

Yea Im weary about cut cranks, I think its ok to get it mic'd or machined a little, but if they have to actually cut it I think its not safe. Need some more research on that though. And I havent tried to pick up the shavings with a magnet but Im positive there from the main bearings.

Black_ bullet

04-05-2009, 12:24 PM

Im still saving up to get some parts in to fund this build. I have a few parts on the way.

On the look out for a manual rack also.

Does anyone have any theories of why it was eating up a main bearing?

Black_ bullet

04-07-2009, 12:21 AM

Turbo came in today. I plan on running this after I finish wringing out the e316g on the new setup.

Billet 56mm 6blade Hx40.
Heavy little fucker.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Picture005.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Picture006.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Picture007.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Picture008.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Picture012.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Picture004.jpg

( After I took off the silencer ring thing in the compressor )

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Picture013.jpg

Doesnt feel like it has any shaft play. Definitely seems like its got some good miles and abuse on it though, I might take it to this semi truck turbo rebuilder that I know and have him inspect it, but overall it should be able to be ran. Honestly If I can get 10k out of the thing with how I plan to use it Id be happy. It wouldnt be nothing to rebuild or replace. I picked it up used from GoldFarb.

Right now I am trying to decide if I feel like spending the money and getting the T3 housing and selling my fp mani and punishment racing o2 housing and getting a nice t3 t4 mani setup ( Like the nice punishment racing one ) OR just getting the BEP bolt on housing and keeping it simple.
Only reason I was thinking of changing the setup up a little is because with the t3 t4 it would be much easier to make good numbers on pump gas since thats all I plan to run on this turbo. Just a thought up in the air.

frankozz

04-07-2009, 01:11 AM

Sell it.... To me :P

Black_ bullet

05-03-2009, 01:04 PM

More pics of the fmic after I put the bumper back on.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0064.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0061.jpg

Tight fit is what she said lol
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0058.jpg

The cutting could be a little cleaner, but I will go over it with my dremel to smoothen it out some other time.

Black_ bullet

05-03-2009, 01:17 PM

Grillen

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0055.jpg

Black_ bullet

05-03-2009, 01:21 PM

Also I found a manual rack finally for 40bucks. Thus Im not so iffy about removing my P/S.

Now I hear for the manual rack you need the passenger side bracket as the p/s rack's bracket isnt the same and I dont have this bracket. So I started to think I might run into problems, until I searched over on Tuners and seen that a few ppl actually never used the passenger m.rack bracket and they had no issue making the old p/s bracket work.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0053.jpg

Black_ bullet

05-03-2009, 01:41 PM

Also, a little off topic again but heres a vid I made last week of my friend Drew's 1g of darkside performance. He just got it running. Sounds bad ass, I cant wait to see it in action as he wont get on it nor give me any pulls yet .
Any questions regarding this car just ask me on my youtube profile instead of here. I dont remember his dsmtalk SN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F91nKpvd8o&feature=channel_page

frankozz

05-03-2009, 05:24 PM

Man that sounds beastly... Any more vids of that car?

bsmart82

05-03-2009, 06:22 PM

I did not have the right side rack bracket when I converted to manual steering. All you need is both rubber bushings for the right side and cut one up and use both to make the original bracket fit. It is easy to figure out when everything is in front of you when you are ready to put it in.

Black_ bullet

05-03-2009, 11:21 PM

K thanks, I may install it next weekend and Im sure it wont be an issue.
And no more vids of the other 1g..... Yet.
I told him when my cars running I want to race him. He has a 35r though.

frankozz

05-04-2009, 12:16 AM

Lol good luck with that :P make sure you get some sick footage :)

Black_ bullet

05-13-2009, 07:34 PM

Ok guys I need some opinions. Well Im starting to loose endurance with this whole building my dsm thing, Im still trying to get thru school, and on top of that I dont make much money, and theres so much more I want to do with my life right now .

Im starting to feel like I want to cut corners in building her up and just do it in a cheaper manner to get it over with, so I can drive it and just enjoy it.
The only reason I havent started really doing anything for building the dsms engine yet is because I had to drop a bunch of cash and put another motor in my mazda 626 since it was handed down to me as a daily driver - except with a bad engine.

So this is what I have in mind now for the dizzum-

Well Im still going to get the ACL trimetal bearings, new oil pump, maybe still Oring the block and run stock headgasket which is all simple stuff, but instead of getting Eagle rods, what if I just get the 9:1 wiseco pistons/rings mated to the stock 6bolt rods, without spending the extra money for the eagle rods? Is there any complication of doing that?

Also how important are the ARP rod bolts? Can they be used with stock 6bolt rods also?

And as far as the head, instead of getting expensive springs and retainers, I think Im going to just pick up the brian crower springs and retainers and hope they're safe up to 8500rpms on these Kelford 272s that I ordered.

Well thats it, and just run it with my 16g till the 16g dies, I may not bother with getting the jmf smim or putting on the hx40 for now, but when I do the end goal power figure will still be in the ballpark of 450awhp on 93 octane no meth. Also for simplicity I think I will just run with the bolt on BEP housing for when the time comes instead of doing this whole twin scroll stuff. So with all that said, I dont see why I couldnt reach my stated goal reliably, and still have plenty fun being the cars weight and setup ?

MuffinMan7580

05-13-2009, 07:41 PM

Black_ bullet

05-13-2009, 08:19 PM

If you're just going to run the 16g until it dies, and then the HX40, why don't you just use 1g big rods/1g pistons? they're known to handle the power. The ARP rod bolts would be money wasted in my opinion, especially with 450 hp as your end goal.

That also was a consideration to just put stock pistons, but I actually did want the higher compression, as well as I recall reading somewhere that 1g pistons wrist pins are a weak point or something like that, and thus why some guys go 2g pistons/ 1g rod combo. Is this true?

I mean yea realistically, Im aware that the 6bolt can handle my goals and technically my current 1g pistons are still in great shape and I could just get some new rings, but I dont want to do this again so I was thinking Id be playing it safe to at least get better pistons :dunno:

MuffinMan7580

05-13-2009, 08:33 PM

The 2g wrist pin is the weaker one, people put the 2g piston on the 1g rod for the higher compression. 2 local guys here in Fredericksburg have made big power on the stock bottom end. 1 made 500 on a 35r, and the other made 601 on a 35r and intercooler sprayer. The one who made 601 made that 2 years ago, and still runs the same motor (and beats on it every time he drives it). The stock bottom end is plenty strong, and will give you a long lasting motor as long as you have a good tune.

Black_ bullet

05-13-2009, 09:04 PM

Hmm, yea I couldve sworn the 2g pistons were better than the 1g pistons all around?

So what Ive dug up so far is that the wiseco pistons need a tad bit machining to mate to the 1g rods, and also as we all know the 2g pistons need machining to mate.

I personally would prefer the wiseco pistons over any of the stock pistons, one because of the 9:1 compression I am shooting for, as well as more durability, and lighter, but its not a must have at this point as long as I can reliably reach my goal. So I am still weighing my options.

I mean Im seeing were there are several guys running into the 500+ whp range on the stock stuff for a couple yrs or so, which is awesome being Im not trying to go anywere near that type of power, BUT I also know the margin for error is much smaller. Not that Im not a competent tuner, but im sure some of these guys have meth/ethanol/c16 and I only plan to run pump.

Any other opinions on the matter?

Black_ bullet

05-21-2009, 07:53 PM

Anyways screw what I said in last post I know the route im going with the build now, I talked to my friend Drew at Darkside and we both went over a few things.

Im keeping it simple with a little safe guard.

- Fresh 2g pistons
- Reuse my stock 6bolt rods, possible get them shot peened
- Arp rod bolts ( extra insurance, not too expensive )
- bc springs retainers
- Kelford 272s
- Mayybbe O-ring the block if I dont end up getting better L19 headstuds or something.
- Stock headgasket
- and stock overhauled everything else.

As well after a month, my cams finaly came in!

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0273.jpg

Cam sheet that came with the Kelfords
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0274.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0275.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0279.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0278.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0286.jpg

frankozz

07-12-2009, 01:53 PM

Any updates? I want to see this bad boy back on the road.

Black_ bullet

07-12-2009, 07:19 PM

Nah man, maybe if I made more money but Ive put a pause on this dsm thing lately. I had other things I wanted to do with my money this summer or else it'd probably be running. I got a bunch of more important stuff planned ( like road trips and skydiving, and a trip out of the country later this year) so cash for the car is low right now. Ive been doing this for too long and I realized I never get to splurge on other things because of the car.

Anyways after I pick up some new valve stem seals the head will be ready to go, its just going to be stock head with kelford272s and bc springs and retainers and Im just going to rev to 8k. I need to get the motivation to install my manual rack, weld the pedal assembly, and I may try to get the bottom end done by sept so I can put it all back together and get it running. When I get some progress going Ill update the thread!

Black_ bullet

09-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Ok quick update, block at machine shop most of the parts are in, it is getting the Orings.
I also ended up doing fresh 1g pistons instead of the 2g piston stuff I was talking about before. Didnt feel like messing with the wrist pin stuff. I'll get some pics of everything once I get the block back, and once we start getting everything assembled which should be quick once everything is here as I want to speed this up now instead of letting everything sit around like I have been doing.

As well I ended up picking up a cyclone intake manifold as I got a cheapo deal on one so I think Im going to use that instead of forking over a bunch of cash for a smim like I originally planned, I know I change my mind a lot. stock block with arps and orings, Kelford272s,cyclone, fp exhaust mani, rom eprom chip tuning, 3in exhaust E-cutout, e316g then eventually Ill install my billet 6blade/12blade HX40 (56mm inducer) once I get the BEP housing; Kind of unique setup but should still be fun.

hand1222000

09-01-2009, 08:15 PM

Congrats on the new cams!! Do a good compare video vs the old BC cams you had in before.

Black_ bullet

09-01-2009, 08:24 PM

Oh yea I will definitely do a bunch of videos, launching, track, dyno and all!

wheelhop

09-01-2009, 08:26 PM

Black_ bullet

09-01-2009, 08:55 PM

Well I hope these can keep up-

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/100_0593.jpg

I know people used to worry about the FP2X having too aggressive of ramp rate for the single springs. I dont know much about reading cam sheets I just know what Ive heard and what I was told and that these cams kick ass.

Matt do you have any opinion of these BC springs/retainers on the kelfords. I forgot how the ramp rate correlates with the performance? Rev limit set @ 8grand.

pboglio

09-16-2009, 04:07 PM

Wow! The difference with kelford 272s is very apparent. 272 advertised duration. . . at the instant the valve comes off the seat. . . normal stuff.

But 226 duration at 0.050" lift:eek:!!!!! My fp2X cams are at 212 at 0.050" lift. That's a hell of alot of early ramp rate!

And this is why upgraded valve springs are recommended. These Kelford 272's are more aggressive than even the HKS 280's, based on the cam card info.

wheelhop

09-17-2009, 01:24 AM

I recommend at least manley singles. . . But even those probably won't be enough for you to take full advantage of the cams. These cams look to breath well past 8K. I've taken fp2x cams to a little after that with manley singles. But I wouldn't do that with these kelfords. . .

Black_ bullet

09-19-2009, 03:46 PM

Ugh, well lets hope I dont float anything with these BC springs and retainers , Kelford272s, and a 8k rev limit....

I should have everything coming together really soon, Im just waiting for the head to get back from the machine shop, all the parts for the block are in, and Im thinking about picking up one of those plenum intake manifold heat barrier spacers, but I dont know if its really worth the money, and whether or not it will affect performance in a positive way since it will be making the runner length even longer, and I think I am going to be running a cyclone intake manifold I picked up recently.

I also need to gone and purchase some new tie rods so I can gone and install this manual rack on the car before the motor gets done.

wheelhop

09-19-2009, 10:01 PM

Get a machine shop to make you some shims, .06" so should help a little. After doing a little math, .06" shim would give you over 100lbs seat pressure and over 250lbs .055" lift. It might make the difference.

A spring is a wire. And the shim will cause the "wire" to actually flex less. If you flex a wire over and over and over again, it weakens and breaks. If you flex it a LONG distance (high lift), it breaks. If you flex it very quickly (high ramp rate), it breaks. Shimming saves the life of the spring AND gives more seat and nose pressure. It's a win-win.

Black_ bullet

09-20-2009, 06:54 PM

Ill check into that. There was a local guy with a 60trim 2g with build motor and 10:1 compression, that had bc280s and bc springs and retainers and he's pegged a 9500 rev limit on that thing several times he said... I will do a little more checking into this combo I got going on, and make sure they are up to par for these new cams up to 8 grand. Thanks for the advice.

Black_ bullet

10-04-2009, 02:11 AM

Update; quite a bit of pics so I put it in slide show format. ( Click picture.)

http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/th_IMG00171-20090929-1739.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/?action=view&current=7804ddbd.pbw)

Black_ bullet

10-04-2009, 02:18 PM

So motor has new everything, except we found a good condition used crank for this build since my old one was shot, and we are reusing my old 6 bolt rods as I seen no reason to spend money on new ones. Motor pretty much has new 1g pistons and rings, the head was oringed, the block was decked, cylinders honed, hot tanked and all the machine shop stuff, bearings, stock head gasket, arp headstuds etc, kelford 272s, bc springs & retainers, cyclone intake mani, and im slapping my e316g setup back on for the remainder of this year. Im not going to fool with the hx40 right now, as I still need the BEP housing/kit and Im low on cash, and there is more pesky maintenance to address first such as brake master cylinder, new tie rods, and drive shaft carrier bearings.

Heres some more pics of current progress, my friend Josh w/ the Sti came over to lend a hand and we were working on it a lot yesterday and got a lot accomplished.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2299.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2301.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2302.jpg
The Cyclone intake mani has the LancerMan T25 mod, I just need to hook the actuator up to a boost source now!
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2303.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2304.jpg
The valve cover is still kind of tacky, I need to find someone who can power coat it cheaply...
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2306.jpg

I cleaned up the tranny and repainted it with brake caliper silver spray paint that I had in the garage, and I am surprised how well it turned out.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2308.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2309.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2310.jpg

Black_ bullet

10-04-2009, 02:38 PM

The clutch setup is Act XACT 12lbs alum flywheel. We torqued that down to 100 ft/lbs with the torque bar and used loctite red.

The pressure plate is a typical ACT2600 that I got from Extremepsi last year. We torqued the PP bolts down to 15 ft/lbs w/ loctite red. ( One time I had a headache from over torqueing PP bolts and snapped it off into the flywheel.)

And the disk I use is the South Bend ( I think its an Exedy ) Straight Kevlar disk which has great streetability and was recommended to me by Twicks69 on dsmtuners.

More pics as we finish up getting everything installed:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2319.jpg

After a little bit of annoyance trying to get the bolt holes to line up with these prothanes, we got her in!

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2325.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2324.jpg

( My friends writing on the window to keep me motivated so I wouldnt call it quits early. lol)
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2321.jpg

Black_ bullet

10-04-2009, 02:47 PM

Old rack vs Manual rack.
I had to drop the sway bar and fight with it to get that old power rack out of there.
As you can see I badly need tie rods on the manual rack so thats why I havent installed it yet. As of right now I have no idea how to put new tie rods on it.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2298.jpg

WillWork4Parts

10-04-2009, 04:30 PM

WillWork4Parts

10-05-2009, 12:26 AM

Lookin good Jay. Glad to see you're gettin to it. That tranny did turn out lookin pretty good!

Black_ bullet

10-05-2009, 05:00 AM

I imagine that the inner tierods are like any other rack and pinion equiped vehicle. You need a special tool to remove the inner tierods. Moog makes some quality pieces. You could also rent one from Vatozone.

Vatozone LOL.

Yea im going to check and see what I need to do the tie rods tomorrow.
I also need a brake master cylinder because mines started leaking in which I dont know if it would be smart to get one from the junkyard since Im nickle and dimeing here, and also I lost my crank pulley, and oil cap some how so I have to find one of those.:rolleyes:

WillWork4Parts

10-05-2009, 12:57 PM

I understand nickle and dimeing! Doh! Stupid oil cap, lol. As soon as you see the inner tierod tool, you'll understand. Its a hollow aluminum tube with a 3/8ths or 1/2in drive receiver on one end and 2 slots on the other. The slots receive these C shaped pieces that are different sizes like let's say 34mm that that fit the head od the inner rod. Its kinda nifty really.

Black_ bullet

10-07-2009, 11:33 PM

Custom jpipe im going to run that faces the other direction to easier mate w/ licp. Drilled that nipple in there for MBC, and had to cut out some of my cooling fan to fit this pipe in.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/002-1.jpg

Yes this is rtv silicone on the jpipe instead of a gasket. Dont have a gasket and dont care, this works too for now...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/0062.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/003-1.jpg
Coming along slowly.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/0042.jpg

All the wires to the harness are hooked up btw, wire tuck ftw!

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/011.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/0072.jpg

Black_ bullet

10-07-2009, 11:47 PM

An Idea how much metal I had to cut out to make this 2g SSAC core work w/ my 1g.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/013.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2355.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2354.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2358.jpg

Black_ bullet

10-12-2009, 06:53 PM

Painted the Calipers.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2376.jpg

I also got the manual rack installed, and I dialed in the tie rods alignment myself with a ruler. When I was rolling the car out of the garage and turning the steering wheel it turned rather easy, and I have a smaller after market steering wheel which will make it harder to turn than the stock wheel. I drove my friend Drews Awd 1g w/ manual rack the other day and I really liked how it felt. So if anyone running around w/ the power rack disconnected I highly recommend getting a manual rack!

Also, as far as progress, everything is hooked up, but I have two pesky boost leaks, one at my TB shaft seals on the back of the TB, even though I just recently replaced the seals turned out I got the N/T shaft seals which measure 14x10x3 when I think I needed 14x10x2. But my biggest leak is at the upper intercooler piping that will not go away no matter what I try because of the angle that it reenters the intercooler, so I think I need to get a different coupler, one that has the correct angle I need. In the next pic you can see how harsh the angle of the UICP is to reach the connection of the FMIC coming out on the side of the cooling fan/radiator.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2392.jpg

Yesterday we started the car and had it idling for about a minute, it sounded really choppy like it was running on 3 cylinders and then it started blowing my 80 amp inline w/ battery bus fuses. Weird I know, I mustve grounded something thats not a ground. Im having some headaches that need to be sorted out, and I dont have time to mess with it right now but ill up date the thread later.

Ill put a few more pics in the mean time.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2388.jpg

Also I havent figured out exactly how I need to mount my coil pack. I can no longer mount it in stock configuration due to the cyclone manifold. In pic below you'll see its sitting on one of the bolts to the strut housing, but i tried to sit the hood down and it touches the hood. Anyone else have their coil pack mounted there? And how is it done without touching the hood, I know ive seen coilpacks mounted there before in engine bay pics w/ smim's. My transistor is ziptied to the firewall btw, I dont believe it needs to be grounded.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2390.jpg

frankozz

10-12-2009, 07:25 PM

Almost there bro :D

lazylaser

10-13-2009, 12:36 AM

How long have you been on THAT 16g? As in actual road time, how long has she lasted for you.
And the wire tuck action looks great!

Black_ bullet

10-13-2009, 05:59 PM

A friend of mines had this evo3 first for maybe a year and a half and he ran his gsx at 24psi daily.
Its been on my car for about 2 and half years now, I ran at 20psi for a year and the rest of the time it was always above 20 but never over 25 at any given time except for a few times I was pushing the limits of a 93oct tune. The 16g has a little over 20k on it, I daily drove the shit out of this car all thru 2008 when I had to drive between 300-400 miles a week due to work issues. The turbo has some in and out shaft play, I plan to blow it up before I put the holset on. Believe it or not, but Im actually going to tune it at 27psi pump gas w/ a solid 11.3 afr. Ive done it before but never left the boost that high for reliability issues, but now it definitely wont hold boost for shit as the rpm rises w/ these new cams so my tuning emphasis is as boost tampers off timing goes up aggressively, previously I could get up to 19degs by 7k just because the turbo psi drop off.

Also does anyone have any idea how I can mount my coil pack were my stock plug wires will still reach? I wont be working on the car for awhile I have way too much shit going on this week but when I do I want to gone and get everything straight.

Black_ bullet

10-14-2009, 10:40 PM

Ok update, but bad news. So I fixed my issue with the 80amp bus fuse inline w/ my battery relocation from blowing out, grounded a hot by mistake. My boost leak at the UICP is still there but Ill deal w/ that some other time, but as I got the car running and after about 15seconds of the engine on some fuckery happened and valves hit pistons.

Pretty gay I know, so instead used my AAA to tow car to buddies at Darkside since I went thru them for machining and motor assembly, and they got to work on it free of charge w/ me giving a hand. Head off, turns out the stupid machine shop we used shaved the head way too much when they did the Orings, and the block is already decked some too.

So basically it goes something like - compressed lifters were reason nothing touched when motor was initially rotated to check clearances- When the motor got oil pumped up and through the lifters they decompressed and hit valves, thus why it didnt do it right away, shit happens whatever. So anyways they hooked me up w/ a 4layer MLS headgasket and new stainless valves for free and we checked clearances w/ a solid lifter this time and everything was clear. Since it was only at idle the pistons didnt get any damage luckily, so head is back on, timing belt back on, and everything almost reassembled, should have it started back up tommorow hopefully Ill be good to go from there, a few pics I snapped today...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2398.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2403.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2406.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2408.jpg

While its up there thought id take a picture of my electric cutout since Ive been asked about it before. I have a crappy local 2.5 crush bend exhaust system after the 3in mandrel DP that the cutout is on. The muffler the 2.5 pipe goes into stock dsm muffler which keeps the car almost stock quiet when cutout is closed, Ive been meaning to get a stock evo muffler or something down the line that flows more while keeping quiet operation. Now when the cutout is open its a truck...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2407.jpg

NO RUST lol.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2405.jpg

UPSJoKeR

10-15-2009, 05:57 PM

WOW, Excuse the noob question but why is there a wastegate on the intake manifold ?

4g63tcrazy

10-15-2009, 06:16 PM

It's a cyclone intake manifold. It is used to open and close runners.

Black_ bullet

10-18-2009, 02:15 AM

So another headache, I stripped the threads on the oil feed screw that goes into the head and it was leaking profusely. So this was the solution-

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2438.jpg

Also heres my ghetto rigged solution for the coilpack/transistor/water reserve...

Bolted it to my strut bar.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2443.jpg

Zip tied on firewall
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2444.jpg

More zip ties lol.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/HPIM2441.jpg

Black_ bullet

10-18-2009, 02:29 AM

So wow I hear the turbo at idle?
Havent done anything exciting yet, I got base timing set and its on 20psi ( lowest my spring will go) but I havent exceeded half throttle or 4.5k rpms yet due to break in period. Also there is a few boost leaks that I still need to sort out thats making the car run too rich whenever Im in positive pressure, and a check engine light I need to log. Also my throttle cable is sticking so the car wont idle under 1200 rpms right now so you wont get to really hear the cam lope like a sub-1000 rpm idle. I heard it a little bit around 700rpm when I was trying to adjusting things and it loped pretty nice.... So
nothing exciting but -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UutoAGr8Z40

Black_ bullet

10-18-2009, 08:51 PM

Im considering putting some ebay coilovers on my 1g. Probably something like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-1994-MITSUBISHI-ECLIPSE-R-LOWERING-COILOVER-SPRING_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4ceaa32c9dQQitemZ330354076829QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fA ccessories#ht_2922wt_1165

Anyone else have those on their 1g?

Reason I say that is because A friend of mines has some from when he had a dsm that are dusty in his garage that he's willing to give me. I was out w/ my boy in his beams swap MR2 at the autox today and everyone out there had a nice drop. My wheel gap is annoying me, as the H&R lowering springs I already have arent lowering the car anymore because of all the weight reduction. Its damn near stock ride height right now, so I wanted to slap some coilovers on it to stiffen it up some and to get it back dropped a little more than it is now, w/o blowing out these mediocre KYB GR2 struts I have. I dont care to spend a bunch more money on this car, so thats why Im looking for cheap options.

Ive worked out most of my boost leaks, and I need to get new tb shaft seals again and biss screw oring, and possible get a better bov ( tial). Logged her today, TPS is way off, throttle cable is not closing right I think, and CEL 21 came up for coolant sensor in which I will try to find one in the junkyard to replace to see if I can get rid of cell. Not sure if having that cell on affects how the car runs, ( AFR/Timing wise?)

Also,snapped a few more pics while at Vato Zone.

b00sted_spyder

10-18-2009, 09:02 PM

Black_ bullet

10-18-2009, 09:06 PM

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/dsm%20early%202009i/Dsm%20build%20Late%2009/HPIM2468.jpg

Black_ bullet

10-21-2009, 06:25 PM

Stay away from ebay coilovers. You have thousands of dollar invested in your car so why not get good suspension? Since they are unknown brand, who knows what can happen to them. I'd recommend some Tein springs since they ride like OEM with a drop.

Yea thanks, Im def not putting ebay coilovers on my car, Ive never actually thought about running them so I never researched them so I was just asking to see if anyone actually had any good experiences w/ them. But really that was just one of those times were I question my own question when I look back on it. lol

Anyways I need to start driving and putting miles on it so I can gone and get to the fun stuff after the motor is broke in ( 500miles?) but a minor oil leak just sprung up and right now I cant tell if its at the bottom of my forward facing oil filter housing or the pan, but its moist w/ oil back there, but not enough to drip under the car. I didnt feel like jacking the car up and getting dirty or dropping the fresh oil at the moment to deal with it, but this weekend Im going to check it out.

The cars just been sitting in the garage for now, too cheap to put insurance at the moment because Im trying to finish getting together my finances for my trip out of the country at the end of the year, and theres a big annual Mitsu / Dsm meet Nov 7th in Orlando that Id like to attend so I guess Im going to have get busy on getting this car going because if I went out there id want it to be broke in and tuned...

Black_ bullet

10-23-2009, 02:24 PM

These cams shift the powerband to the right, so Im sure it caused a little bit of a lose of driveability down low as far as torque curve, but Im sure this cyclone is making up for it, it has a nice little tug while the secondaries are still closed, but they are opening too early from my opinion and research ( after 12psi because of the T25 w.g. actuator) Im sure the cyclone would be more beneficial in the torque increase if it had a actuator on it that wouldnt allow the secondaries to open until say 16-17psi because my setup w/ this Evo3 can generate over 12psi well under 3k.

I also have CEL 21 for coolant temp sensor, its causing car to not want to stay running when cold and I think making my fuel trims much richer, and It starts to break up and sputter if I get into too much throttle or boost ( reminiscent if I had a bad boost leak) in which I did several boost leaks tests, so Im assuming CEL 21 can make the car break up due to dumping too much fuel? Im going to try to fix it and change my spark plugs and see if that helps..

pboglio

10-28-2009, 09:01 PM

Black_ bullet

10-28-2009, 09:29 PM

How are them Kelford's working out for you? I haven't got off my ass and installed mine yet, waiting to get smogged first before I do it. Have you thought of running adjustable cam gears to dial things in a bit? I have never seen a 1g without a hint of rust on it, very nice.

My car is a Florida car, not likely to rust here I guess.
The cams pull about 11 vacuum at 800-900rpm idle. I recall the BC272s being closer to 13-14 vacuum if I remember correctly, and honestly the idle sounds about the same as the bc272s do also, but I have open DP so maybe its hard to compare. As well, drive ability really feels about the same as it did before, only have 300miles or so on the motor so no pulls yet, but soon as I hit 500 miles I was going to let it rip, 25psi etc. Ill update whenever .

pboglio

10-28-2009, 10:04 PM

Damn, 11" Hg is kind of lower than what I expected. I think your car ate a refrigerator:D That is the biggest I.C. I've ever seen short of on a truck.

Black_ bullet

10-28-2009, 10:09 PM

Damn, 11" Hg is kind of lower than what I expected. I think your car ate a refrigerator:D That is the biggest I.C. I've ever seen short of on a truck.

Its just the core that all the 2g guys get, its just it looks big on my car. :cool:
And no my cams arent degreed, Im sure they will benefit from them, but either way, degreed or not they are probably going to rip once its tuned and once Im getting into the right rpm. I havent been above 5k or 50 percent throttle yet. Keep in mind, according to the AMS evo cam testing, the kelfords did not shine in power below 5k, but they were amazing 5k up. If you read my previous posts youll see I initially thought driveability was less but I forgot the motor didnt have full compression the first 100 miles, right now the driveability is how I remember, and it feels pretty strong... Also It does spool noticeably faster than before due to the cyclone but its secondaries are opening too damn fast to get the full benefit of the torque gains.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/343818-ams-evo-cam-test.html

pboglio

10-28-2009, 10:27 PM

Interesting, I'm curious to hear your impressions once you get a good break-in on the motor and a few WOT pulls. I bought my Kelfords for the same reason, I have almost too much torque to even use safely so I can easily trade some of it for some topend, then adjust the cam gears for when I need some torque back for whatever reason.

I got a 23"x10"x3" core but I'm thinking of either going bigger or just going to methanol/water injection. I like your cyclone manifold, would be nice to have the ECU control it maybe with DSMLink or something.

Black_ bullet

10-28-2009, 10:40 PM

Bigger cams and pushing the power band to the right some will generally result in higher traps speeds regardless the turbo from my research. I would like to see low 120+ mph traps on this e316g setup. Also, Pboglio I know you run like a 17psi waste gate spring for your turbo correct? Were did you purchase it? I think that will be much better to run on my cyclone intake mani rather than the sooner opening of the 12psi T25 actuator thats on there now.

wheelhop

10-29-2009, 11:23 AM

pboglio

10-29-2009, 04:38 PM

Exactly the vacuum I'd expect from 226 duration at .05" lift. kelford 272s are bigger than all the other 272s. They arn't really 272s considering their duration is just so much bigger. They ramp up VERY quick early hense the much larger duration at .05"than even my fp2X cams.

Go water/meth injection NOW! be a nozzle away from whatever charge cooling you'll ever need. And be done with less than 100% efficiency forever. Huge intercoolers are for posers :D

I'm in the "conceptual stage" of a digital controller for the Alcohol injection system. Ran it by my Digital Fundamentals instructor and he had some interesting ideas and suggestions. A little over my head but I need a project for the advanced Digitals course anyways. I'm trying to stretch the compressor map out as my goals for the EVOIII 16g is more than 450 w.h.p.

Anyhow,

Blackbullet,
I bought the wastegate actuator from Forced performance but I sold mine with my T28. Did you do any head work or increased valve diameters as I think that could affect the bottom end. I don't recall the AMS cam shootout EVO having that low of an idle with the Kelfords but then again I'm not sure if that car had MIVEC compensating with a computer mapped intake cam angle.

Black_ bullet

10-29-2009, 10:48 PM

I'm in the "conceptual stage" of a digital controller for the Alcohol injection system. Ran it by my Digital Fundamentals instructor and he had some interesting ideas and suggestions. A little over my head but I need a project for the advanced Digitals course anyways. I'm trying to stretch the compressor map out as my goals for the EVOIII 16g is more than 450 w.h.p.

Anyhow,

Blackbullet,
I bought the wastegate actuator from Forced performance but I sold mine with my T28. Did you do any head work or increased valve diameters as I think that could affect the bottom end. I don't recall the AMS cam shootout EVO having that low of an idle with the Kelfords but then again I'm not sure if that car had MIVEC compensating with a computer mapped intake cam angle.

No there really isnt any head work done. The valve bowls were cleaned up a little, and it has the new cams and bc springs/retainers, and a 4layer mls head gasket as well as orings, thats it.
The cams probably give a lot of potential. Pboglio I am interested in your results of how far you can stretch out the e316g.

Wheelhop, meth is tempting, I am just trying to find a sweet spot were I can go real fast on pump without breaking or compromising reliability too much. The meth would probably get me in trouble.

pboglio

10-29-2009, 11:57 PM

Well, as wheelhop is well aware already, injecting the methanol/water in front of the turbo will drop intake temps before the compressor and will thus increase massflow. Kind of similar to how your car just runs stronger when its raining out, but you never knew why, well this is the why:D Its risky but I have no problems replacing a $180 compressor wheel every couple of years if it gets beatup. The other "trick" I'm going to use is speed density in combination with a cold air/ram air setup. Then the cams of course. I just pulled 44.6 lb/min the other day with my boost controller turned off and just creeping upwards without any of what I already mentioned, so I think the potential on an EVO3 16g is possible to hit close to 48-49 lb/min, maybe as high as 50 lb/min if the temps are near freezing.

Black_ bullet

10-30-2009, 02:10 AM

Im aware of pre turbo injection and how it alters the compressor map and characteristics. Anyways what boost did you log that at on your 16g? I actually cant log airflow and never knew what I was flowing, but I always assumed the evo316g is done after about 43lb/min? I do plan to run quite a bit of boost this time around, 27psi spikes or so.

wheelhop

10-30-2009, 09:23 AM

pboglio

10-30-2009, 10:23 AM

Black_ bullet

10-30-2009, 08:11 PM

Sorry, thought you meant to ask "how" I was gonna stretch the comp. map.

I pulled that airflow at low boost, maybe 19-20 psi at 7500 rpms. The reason I pulled more airflow is that I let the boost setting stay low, which allowed the wastegate to open more and the motor naturally flowed more because of the lack of restriction. Most people do the opposite to wring more out of the compressor and fail to realize that the compressor will level out regardless of how much more you clamp the wastegate. Kicking the wastegate open at high rpms until the high rpm boost "just" starts to drop back down will make the most power. Thats what happened by accident on my car and why I ran the highest airflow I ever have.

Wait I'm not sure I follow, your saying it made that air flow figure with only 20psi? Or are you saying that is what it bled down to at peak power once the turbo could no longer maintain its boost level as rpm's rise.

From my experience, I gain more power everywhere in the power band the higher I turn the boost even when the turbo cant keep up. For example, off of recollection, set at 22psi it will fall to 20 by 7k. Set at 25psi it will only be down to 22psi by 7k. I'm assuming that theory applies the higher the boost goes till the point the e316g is truly maxed. I expect with these bigger cams that the needle on the boost gauge will fall much quicker due to the improved flow up top, yet the power will increase as well as efficiency.

pboglio

10-31-2009, 01:48 PM

There's always more airflow after the map. The map ends at 42-43lb/min. But there's more there after it. The question is WHY? I know some want the challenge. And others want the bragging rights. But there's turbos out there that will still be on the map at 47lb/min and spool about the same.

However anytime some is going to try something off the path like pboglio, I cheer! I can't wait to see some results from this. Glenn over on tuners showed some VERY nice results with his 57-trim turbo. removed the surge AND increased spool speed at the same time. Plus he reported mch more topend. Pre turbo WI is a promising tool.

Matt,

I'm eager to do the pre-turbo water/meth injection, then post-I.C. injection as well. The water injection thread on tuners has me fascinated.

Blackbullet,

Yes, the boost was set at 15 psi, it creeped to whatever up to maybe 6000 rpms, then the typical drop off back to something really low like 19-20 psi at 7500 rpms. Its obvious the engine could hold boost without the wastegate being clamped, so that implies more exhaust was bypassing and letting the engine breather better. Since the compressor and turbine are coupled, what goes in must come out. Restrict the turbine section and mass flow will decrease. I look at it as a bell curve. Where is the airflow/power apex? I think it is when the turbo creeps on its own at high rpms, instead of trying to clamp the wastegate shut and strangling the motor. Since I hit compressor choke flow, no amount of turbine wheel overspeed will gain anymore airflow, but it will shift more exhaust gas into the restrictive turbine section. I believe this is where V.E. gains can be had to maximize the airflow of the entire engine, not just the compressor.

Black_ bullet

11-01-2009, 02:32 PM

1badgvr4

11-01-2009, 05:13 PM

Jay I don't know if you've heard, but there's a huge evo/DSM meet coming up here in Orlando, and ill be there im my laser with two other friends. You think you would be down to make that ride?

pboglio

11-01-2009, 07:55 PM

So what about running with no waste gate line, thus trying to keep it closed. I always thought that was the way to kill, and maximize any turbo...

And as far as the theory on that, if your motor flows well enough that the turbo (16g) physically cant spike too high with the waste gate line off, will it still kill the turbo quickly. Like say if it could only spike 30psi below 4500rpm or something but the rest of the pull it was below that due to motor VE etc.

Pulling the wastegate line helps, but IMHO it is not the highest torque/power solution. Its a balancing act. The more you overspeed the compressor, the more you need to route exhaust gas into the turbine to power the ineficiency. Its one big viscious circle. You want to "just" max the compressor, then command the wastegate to start opening until the boost drops off a touch. This IMHO would maximize airflow thru out the entire motor. It would take an rpm based boost controller to achieve it.

Black_ bullet

11-02-2009, 04:57 AM

Over 500miles, I started tuning and the car is a lot more knock prone.
I think partially because its a noisier motor due to how it was built, and my knock sensor is kind of old and banged up, as Im getting phantom knock in lower gears, but I still had to pull back a lot of mid range gm/rev load row timing as well as timing through wot. These Kelfords also have crazy ramp rate, and I recall a guy named Darren P. over on Tuners always complaining about his FP2X making his car detonate easier after cam swap due to ramp rates. So im assuming it applies for me also since I only have 93octane.

The transitioning of the cyclone opening at different load rows is also making it a bit harder to tune since the cyclones opening is psi based and I can reach its opening point at various throttle/ rpm amounts.

Currently at an 11.2-11.3 afr, and low timing and hitting 26psi and it doesnt fall off very much since I fixed all my boost leaks, car spools very fast, 3rd gear pull starting in low rpm has a smooth linear pull and feels most powerful above 6k. The car is accelerating like it has something bigger than a 16g on it in how it feels, I took it to 7500 and it still had alot of power above 7k even w/ this little turbo. Ill be able to get a better impression once I finish tuning it, I have a long way to go.

Black_ bullet

11-02-2009, 05:03 AM

Jay I don't know if you've heard, but there's a huge evo/DSM meet coming up here in Orlando, and ill be there im my laser with two other friends. You think you would be down to make that ride?

Yea Im going hopefully. Good to know another dsm is coming. Maybe I can convince some locals to go.

Black_ bullet

11-03-2009, 07:27 AM

Updated kelford thread.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210001&page=10

Black_ bullet

11-06-2009, 06:54 AM

Ive found were the cyclone excels, I was cruising home on the highway last night and it rides at 0 on the boost gauge at anything over 70mph, and any hair touch of the throttle it immediately starts boosting, its almost boosting TOO fast despite that these bigger cams have softened the lower rpm torque blow, spool up is nuts right now. Was a nice 50degs outside last night and I went to pass a semi in 5th and literally 35 percent throttle car flung to full boost of 26psi without me even trying and the acceleration felt really smooth and strong. That little pass around the semi resulted me quickly going from 70mph to 100mph partial throttle without even trying.

I figured out how I'm going to keep the runners closed longer, which will make it produce a lot more torque, Im going to tap a mbc on the line going to the t25 actuator on the cyclone to increase pressure needed to open it. I want to keep runners closed till I reach full boost. I know many of you are probably disagreeing with me having this manifold on my setup but it beats the stock 1g manifold hands down and I only had to spend 60bucks on it. Top end is not affected by the cyclone.

wheelhop

11-06-2009, 07:13 AM

That's right! Some people spout chiches like, "you have to compromize some where. The cyclone flows better down low but has less topend than a 1g manifold". The point of the two runner lengths is to have BOTH, no compromise. And flow benching proves no flow difference. And first hand usage verifies this. . .

Who would one complain about more midrange and the same topend as a 1g intake manifold? It's a better manifold because it doesn't lose topend performance and give more power under the curve, the promary reason why so many insist on sticking with their 16g for +400whp goals.

Black_ bullet

11-06-2009, 07:29 AM

Interesting recent thread about cyclone intake manifold vs. venom intake mani over on tuners.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/345358-torn-between-intake-manifolds.html

Black_ bullet

11-13-2009, 02:02 AM

A quick bs vid I forgot to put up last week. Nothing special.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BlackBullet7#p/a/u/0/62gOaSLFX3s

Black_ bullet

11-14-2009, 11:37 PM

Update:

So a little change has been made to the car after a little convincing and contemplating
and since I have two jobs right now I had a little extra cash laying around as a last mod kind of thing for this year. So this is what I got-

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/Mobile%20Uploads/1258087141.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/Mobile%20Uploads/1258087197.jpg

The manifold comes with 4 locations for vacuum ports. 1 of these
is 3/8 NPT for the brake booster; which I got a brass 90Deg male to female
fitting for this to keep my brake booster hose in the stock location.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/Mobile%20Uploads/1258087213.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/Mobile%20Uploads/1258086964.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/Mobile%20Uploads/1258086911.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh140/BlackBullet7/Mobile%20Uploads/1258086871.jpg

The guys at Hawver are literally like 15 minutes from my house so didnt have to worry about shipping or anything. I dont know how this compares to the jmf, but I know some people think its pointless to put a aftermarket manifold on a 16g setup but trust me its not. Heres a dyno sheet from Greg's Hawver intake setup w/ direct comparison coming off stock intake, he's running meth, and I believe he told me around 24psi. Pay close attention to power increases above 5200 rpm. This will stretch out even further if a bigger turbo is added along w/ more rpms ( Remember I have hx40 for next year.)

http://www.hawvermotorsports.com/images/dyno/hawver_dynosheet.jpg

The cyclone is noticeably stronger only till about 5k, but it was spooling too fast for me on my setup, couldnt even drive in 5th on highway and accelerate without boosting, with a little bit of a bigger turbo it would do good. The pull with this manifold destroys the cyclone above 5grand, which is more useful since I shift a little above 7k and the rpm falls right back at 5k when im shifting fast which keeps it in its power band.

So anyways the cyclone will be up for sale ; probably going to first try to sell it locally though.

wheelhop

11-15-2009, 10:39 AM

That's what we want to know!!! Yes. from 2 to 3with a stock redline you fall back to 5K. From 3 to 4 you fall back down to 5.5K.

Black_ bullet

11-15-2009, 11:59 AM

One more thing I forgot to mention is, ever since I got my car running again, my boost doesnt taper off up top as much as it did on the old motor/setup. It holds pretty damn flat all through the pull and will taper only a little bit even with the addition of this Hawver intake, and its not because Im flowing less.

Previously what I did to make it hold boost longer was porting the turbo, cold air intake, external gate w/ stiffest spring combo, and gm maft blow through. In addition to that, now I think why my boost is even better is because of this big ass FMIC i now have, it must be keeping the intake air charge nice and cool and dense thus more pressure. (Similar to why you boost harder on a cold winter night vs hot summer day.)

Its hard to look at the boost gauge when doing a pull, but if im not mistaken, initially hitting 26psi it will dip to 25 throughout the bulk of the pull then only taper off to like 24 at redline which is damn good for a e316g to do with my mods. I am curious how much lb/min Im flowing now, Im sure its around or maybe even above 40, I did notice on my first pull with the hawver on afr leaned out from 11.2-3 to 11.7 on its own and I had to richen tune up. Im going to try to maximize the timing tonight.

The Hawver mani is a nice piece, and compliments my setup better than cyclone!

Black_ bullet

11-19-2009, 09:33 AM

I finally got to experience some ethanol, but I dont have it local to the pump, I have some connections but going to be getting 55 gal drums to store in the garage so I can keep the car on Ethanol, as well filled up some five 5 gal gas bins w/ the stuff. What we get isnt e85 though, we are loading up on pure E100 moonshine baby. My cars not a daily anymore, and Im only doing a 50-50 mix of e100 and 93oct, and I got it dialed in nicely so far, but fuck I see the fun you' midwest fuckers have been having all this time! This stuff is great!

wheelhop

11-19-2009, 12:26 PM

Keep your barrel air tight. Alcohol likes to absorb water. . .

Black_ bullet

11-19-2009, 02:01 PM

Keep your barrel air tight. Alcohol likes to absorb water. . .

Hmm, I didnt know that. Since you mentioned it, what in your opinion would result in ill effects of that?
But thank again, Ill look into it...

wheelhop

11-19-2009, 02:19 PM

1) Rusty injectors :)

2) A great water injection setup controlled by injector pulse width.

3) Less buzz . . .

WillWork4Parts

11-20-2009, 12:51 AM

That Hawver looks damn good as well. I like the looks of it better than any other IM I've seen. I know you're mainly after the performance gains of matching the IM with your cams but it looks great as well! I was really following your progress with the cyclone and was really wanting to see what you could do with it but it obviously just wasn't right for your setup. I'm definitely considering a cyclone for myself in the future. It seems like an amazing IM for a street car.

Black_ bullet

11-20-2009, 07:19 AM

1) Rusty injectors :)

2) A great water injection setup controlled by injector pulse width.

3) Less buzz . . .

Screw the first two, Im only worried about the 3rd one. :P

That Hawver looks damn good as well. I like the looks of it better than any other IM I've seen. I know you're mainly after the performance gains of matching the IM with your cams but it looks great as well! I was really following your progress with the cyclone and was really wanting to see what you could do with it but it obviously just wasn't right for your setup. I'm definitely considering a cyclone for myself in the future. It seems like an amazing IM for a street car.

Yea man, it gives the car more partial throttle, low end grunt, its better than a stock 1g manifold when working properly since top end is similar. The Hawver is better for me though w/ what Im trying to do and my current mods.
I am not interested in making a lot of torque, I actually want to keep the torque tame and below 400ft/lbs to keep this tranny together.

Im having a issue with the car though, I keep getting CEL 25 which is Barometric pressure sensor, and Ive had it before in the past, and I just unplugged the battery and reset the ecu and it would go away. When it comes it doesnt stay it will turn off at idle and go on when Im giving it gas, and makes the car pull sloppy as the AFR's jump around? Im assuming it can only be gm maft translator, or ecu related, so Im going to try my friends ecu and see if it goes away, my ecu has replaced capacitors but looks like it leaked at one time before I bought the car...

wheelhop

11-20-2009, 09:29 AM

Good high end VE just nets you good torque numbers higher in the rpm range. It doesn't take torque away. The torque curve greatly mimics the VE curve.

Black_ bullet

11-20-2009, 03:32 PM

Good high end VE just nets you good torque numbers higher in the rpm range. It doesn't take torque away. The torque curve greatly mimics the VE curve.

Doesnt seem like it would be as violent on parts, and a bigger turbo setup with a higher rpm power point will not make as much peak torque as say a car setup to make the same amount of HP in a shorter amount of rpms.
Id feel better making 450awhp and 400 ft/lbs of torque revving a little higher,
than making 400awhp and 450 ft/lbs of torque < I actually seen those numbers on a ethanol e316g setup over on tuners from a white 2g. You may be familiar.

Im tempted to turn the boost up a little to keep the boost curve up higher in the higher rpms, but i might just chill.