1997 Spyder 2.3L stroker project

[SpyderMan_GST]

I waited until I actually recieved the parts before I started this thread. Anyways, heres the history:

Last year when Fall semester ended my motor (184k miles on original build) jumped timing. After a new head, about 100 miles down the road my piston rings went out. I scrapped up enough money to buy a 2.3L stroker kit. It arrived today at home! But with me being a procrastinator, I haven't sent the block to the machine shop yet to have the work done to it. I'm on campus right now, but I will be going home for the weekend tomorrow so I will post up pics of what I got goin on so far when I get back. I plan on using the Evo III 16g and the 660cc injectors for now.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Here are the pics:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2591_79591451322_578156322_2767763_.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2591_79671406322_578156322_2768893_.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2591_79590916322_578156322_2767762_.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2591_79589881322_578156322_2767756_.jpg

The block is being sent to the machine shop Monday and should get it back by Friday (hopefully).

[4g64fiero]

What head and block are you using?

Nice goodies so far.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Using the original head. It was completely redone about 60 miles before the piston rings went out. The block is also original. Just a plain old 7 bolt.

I'm now debating on what cams I should buy....272 or 280...Hmmm

[4g64fiero]

Nice. I dont see anything wrong with either of those cams.

What valve springs are you using? You will need some upgrade springs for the 280s.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Whatever the machine shop threw in there. Labor and parts ran me a grand for the head work, so I will probably stick with the 272 so that I don't have to go through that again.

I didn't bother showing some before pics in my original post:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/l_50119f1487d612013e560a86e094c86c.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/l_46431a45d009f4d89c68b4d4d3e79778.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/l_54e302a861dffacffcbde5d8786553a9.jpg

I've been messing around in the engine bay in order to make it look clean while I was waiting for the parts to come in. So it wont look as rigged up and half assed as it did in the pics.

[SpyderMan_GST]

I cleaned up the engine bay a little bit with some purple power
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2667_86864896322_578156322_2824069_.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2667_86864551322_578156322_2824068_.jpg

Here is pics of the block after being stripped down all dirty. I plan on painting the block Chrysler red:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2667_86858076322_578156322_2824046_.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2667_86863316322_578156322_2824064_.jpg


Almost everything piled up right:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2667_86863606322_578156322_2824066_.jpg


And here she is, with no heart inside:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/2667_86865111322_578156322_2824070_.jpg


What do you guys think so far

[b00sted_spyder]

Do not paint engine block Chrysler red. Otherwise everything else looks great.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Do not paint engine block Chrysler red. Otherwise everything else looks great.

Why?

[Flow-Bro]

Don't listen to people do what you want; it's your car, and you have to live with it. Lookin good by the way keep it up :).

[Stroked2G]

I have a 6 bolt 2.3 with the same setup except I used the 4G64 crank, you are gonna have a nice setup. Here is my .02 on the cam selection, right now I have a set of forced performance 3's they say that they are built for the stroker setup <<<{these are not installed} I do have BC springs and retainers installed and was going to drop the FP3's in and then I noticed that FP recomends duel valve springs for their cams, so I called they and they told me how it was their is a good chance that with the BC springs they will not be enfugh. Now I dont know if anyone else has used this setup but thats just what FP says. Just a thought.

[SpyderMan_GST]

I have a 6 bolt 2.3 with the same setup except I used the 4G64 crank, you are gonna have a nice setup. Here is my .02 on the cam selection, right now I have a set of forced performance 3's they say that they are built for the stroker setup <<<{these are not installed} I do have BC springs and retainers installed and was going to drop the FP3's in and then I noticed that FP recomends duel valve springs for their cams, so I called they and they told me how it was their is a good chance that with the BC springs they will not be enfugh. Now I dont know if anyone else has used this setup but thats just what FP says. Just a thought.

Thanks for the heads up

UPDATE:
Apparently my motor is a 96 and that year they used 2 piece bearings and the 97's use 3 piece bearings. Being ignorant of this I assumed my motor was a 97 and didn't think it would matter, so now I gotta send back the bearings. I ordered a TopLine gasket kit and should be here this coming week. Also, if I have time I will be picking up the block from the machine shop this week (this is the last week of class and finals are right after so i'm gonna be busy as hell). Not being able to drive is killin me lol.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Finals are over with (about time!), so I was able to drop by the machine shop and pick up my block. The bearings came in the mail today as well and I have my block gasket kit. I am waiting for my final piece to arrive in the mail. The oil pump. It will probably arrive some time next week.

[4g64fiero]

Lucky!

Get some pics when you put it all together.

[SpyderMan_GST]

I would like some input. I have enough cash to buy one item right now (damn car has burned a hole in my wallet lol). I have narrowed it down to an fmic kit or some 272 cams. I have read that cams will make this thing come alive, but would it give more power than a fmic kit? Before I started the rebuild, it seems like anything over 17psi caused heat soaking. So either way I go it's going to be a big upgrade, and I do plan on getting the other item, but with due time. Thoughts?

[swade]

Id prolly go with the cams since you have everything apart and it will be alot easier with the motor out to swap cams and what not.
swade

[SpyderMan_GST]

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/0430091615.jpg

Block after the machine shop :)

[SpyderMan_GST]

I have decided to take on a little side project in the mean time. I will be dericing and painting the center piece as well as the rear bumper. So far I have been sanding down the chips to smooth everything out. I bought some basecoat. Will be buying the base maker, clear coat urethane and activator some time soon. Here are some before pics:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/0430091712.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/0430091712a.jpg

[SpyderMan_GST]

Go Away Rain!!!

[SpyderMan_GST]

Progress pics:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/0512091024.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/0512091025.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/0512091025a.jpg

Should be running by this Friday (knock on wood)

[i need a dsm]

Is this car strictly for burnouts or what? 2.3 + 16g + FWD = No Traction

You getting a LSD obviously right?

[SpyderMan_GST]

Is this car strictly for burnouts or what? 2.3 + 16g + FWD = No Traction

You getting a LSD obviously right?

I am aware of this problem. But, for now I'm going to leave it for now. Unfortunatley, this little project has ran me about ~$4k and and my funds are pretty much gone (i'm just a college student :(). I figure after the summer my fellow DSMers will be in the same situation as I am in currently and will be selling their projects, so maybe I can come across an AWD donor car for my little Spyder so I can pull a Sean485. Option B is just throwing in an LSD when I replace the clutch, since it's a "factory replacement clutch," it won't last long. I don't plan on taking it to the track until it's properly broken in, so it's no big deal.

[i need a dsm]

For 4k, I will get you a stroked 2.3 motor, free shell with awd donor parts all in working condition. Plus it runs, that's the bonus

I wish I had money to finish my stroker goddamnit!

YOu need a laggy turbo, so wheel spin will be minimum at low rpm's lol

How much is the machine work costing ya?

[SpyderMan_GST]

For 4k, I will get you a stroked 2.3 motor, free shell with awd donor parts all in working condition. Plus it runs, that's the bonus

I wish I had money to finish my stroker goddamnit!

YOu need a laggy turbo, so wheel spin will be minimum at low rpm's lol

How much is the machine work costing ya?

Too late now lol. It was $200 to get the block bored .20 over and for the head I believe it was around $500 + parts. Tax and all it's nearly a grand.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Oh and I would just like to say that TopLine is the biggest fucking joke I have ever seen in my life. Biggest rip off I've ever seen. Their "block gasket kit" came with more useless gaskets than useful ones and costed more than a full motor gasket kit from ebay. Thanks TopLine for the $85 oil pan gasket. Also, Felpro is a worthless brand as well for a headgasket kit. $100 for the "whole" kit. Not only did they leave out head bolts for this outrageous price, but they seem to have left out a gasket that goes directly from the head to where the thermostat bolts into (cannot think of what it's called), so now I have to use blue glue.

It's pathetic when a no name brand from eBay is nearly half the price of the head gasket kit and includes EVERYTHING. FML

/vent

[SpyderMan_GST]

Today's progress:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/voodoo22007/0514091621.jpg

[SpyderMan_GST]

For some reason, when I try starting it, all I hear is the fuel pump. The starter is not getting any fire. Any ideas guys?

[SpyderMan_GST]

Well just my luck. Used a screwdriver to turn over the motor with the starter (to see if the starter was bad) and when it turned over, the valves went right into the pistons. FML

[Sean485]

Did you actually bend them? It takes a fair amount of force to bend the valves.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Did you actually bend them? It takes a fair amount of force to bend the valves.

Not sure yet. Gotta tear it down again. Will give heads up.

Btw, do the Wiseco stroker pistons require to be flycut before being installed? Could that be the reason why, or could it be because the head has been shaved down too many times? Can't think of any other underlying causes....

[Sean485]

Are you sure you have the correct pistons and the pistons dont actually stick out above the deck of the bore? Regardless though they should have a valve relief cut into them.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Well I just got the head off late last night and it looks as though the pistons and valves haven't touched. So I was wrong about that. Yeah the pistons had the cut outs for valves in them, but I bought the car at 134k miles from a teenager with a rich dad, there is no telling how many times the kid blew a head gasket and had to get it shaved, so at the time that was my best bet.

Someone told me that it could be the crank hitting the balance shaft.


Seems like I'm never going to be able to drive this car again lol.

[MidShipCivic]

Hmm... Now I don't think you put it together well

1. You should have had that block entire coolant plugs removed, oil galley plug removed.

2. Knocked out all balance shaft bearings, and never put the BS back in you're doing a stroker use them as self protection for clubbing someone over the head. Not back in your motor.

3. Had in cleaned.

And last but not least deck the block after saying ''blown hg'' several times. I don't know why you didn't have it deck they aren't even perfectly flat from the factory.

Your balance shafts cannot hit the crankshaft in a 4gx engine no matter how far off time they are, take it back out start over.

I don't do stroker I did a 4g64 block, however when you put a 4g64 block in a 4g63 YOU HAVE TO shave off material FOR GIRDLE CLEARANCE to keep the crank from smacking it.

[MidShipCivic]

I take that last part back I thought you installed a 6 bolt.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Hmm... Now I don't think you put it together well

1. You should have had that block entire coolant plugs removed, oil galley plug removed.

2. Knocked out all balance shaft bearings, and never put the BS back in you're doing a stroker use them as self protection for clubbing someone over the head. Not back in your motor.

3. Had in cleaned.

And last but not least deck the block after saying ''blown hg'' several times. I don't know why you didn't have it deck they aren't even perfectly flat from the factory.

Your balance shafts cannot hit the crankshaft in a 4gx engine no matter how far off time they are, take it back out start over.

I don't do stroker I did a 4g64 block, however when you put a 4g64 block in a 4g63 YOU HAVE TO shave off material FOR GIRDLE CLEARANCE to keep the crank from smacking it.

#1 and #3 were completed at the machine shop (the clean all blocks before using their equipment, the machine shop I take it to is EXTREMELY clean and professional). #2 however, I did not do. Should I have eliminated the balance shaft? I figured shaving off a few grams for it to clear will be fine.

[Draki]

Yes you should take the BS out.

[MidShipCivic]

#1 and #3 were completed at the machine shop (the clean all blocks before using their equipment, the machine shop I take it to is EXTREMELY clean and professional). #2 however, I did not do. Should I have eliminated the balance shaft? I figured shaving off a few grams for it to clear will be fine.

Doesn't look like your freeze plugs were removed, are you certain they took the oil plugs out? Don't think they do it... and never find out I always appear to machine shops w/o notice if I'm coming. I've caught one shop several times not removing plugs for my motor or other customers ... that meant I move to a new machine shop until I found the right shop.

Your BS are to reduce vibration, and you threw that idea out the window going with a stroker and wanting more power, because they can fail w/o a moments notice.

Give me your Wiseco Piston part number.

[SpyderMan_GST]

She's alive! However, after about half an hour of driving it's still smoking like a bitch. Is this normal for these motors? Everything is perfect other than this, good oil pressure, temp gauge staying halfway, smooth idle, etc. The smoke reeks of burning oil.

[Sean485]

Mine smoked for about 5 minutes and then that was it. Some oil consumption during the break-in period is normal but it shouldn't really be burning so much as to be smoking.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Mine smoked for about 5 minutes and then that was it. Some oil consumption during the break-in period is normal but it shouldn't really be burning so much as to be smoking.

What should I do? I really didn't follow a special break in check list or anything. I just poured in the fluids, started it up and let it idle at normal temp for about 20 minutes then cut it off and after it cooled down i drove it for half an hour. I parked it again and just drove it again for another 15 minutes. I'm staying under 3k rpms.... I'm stumped.

Oh a lighter note, this thing has a hell of a lot more torque my God! Lightly letting off the clutch when leaving a stop light would jerk me back lol.

[MidShipCivic]

You don't drive peacefully for break in compression brake the engine, and the smoking isn't normal if it's coming out the exhaust consistently.

[SpyderMan_GST]

It's mainly at idle and when under workload (i.e. goin up an incline)

[MacGSX]

Are those HD pistons and Eagle H beams?

Jordan

[b00sted_spyder]

Were the rings positioned correctly when installing?

[Sean485]

What is your compression? Did you accidentally tear a valve seal putting it together?

[SpyderMan_GST]

Compression is great. About the valve seal, I didn't do ANY of the head work. I don't think the rings were bad to begin with..... I'm starting to believe that I did all this shit for nothing. It's either a botched head job (no pun intended) or a bad turbo. I'm going to drive it to see how much oil is being used to be absolutely sure that it's not the rings not seating.

[MidShipCivic]

Compression is great. About the valve seal, I didn't do ANY of the head work. I don't think the rings were bad to begin with..... I'm starting to believe that I did all this shit for nothing. It's either a botched head job (no pun intended) or a bad turbo. I'm going to drive it to see how much oil is being used to be absolutely sure that it's not the rings not seating.

What kind of head job did you have done? If they had to remove valves old / slightly used valves seals don't really keep their shape they are more on the verge of falling apart.

[SpyderMan_GST]

What kind of head job did you have done? If they had to remove valves old / slightly used valves seals don't really keep their shape they are more on the verge of falling apart.

Everything is new (that I know of), the valves, guides, etc. 184k miles on a head can take a toll.

[SpyderMan_GST]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTK0RW9PBk

Cell phone quality

[MidShipCivic]

Wtf ...

Is your turbo charger 100% okay?

Look in your down pipe to see if its soaked in oil.

Ask the machine shop if they replaced your valve seals.

Your engine doesn't sound healthy too.

[SpyderMan_GST]

I haven't inspected the turbo yet, I'm wondering if it's got a crack some where and it's leaking oil and coolant into the exhaust or something (as you can see the smoke is white and blue but i can smell the burning oil and some times it smells a little odd).

Oh the engine doesn't soundy healthy because cylinder 4 spark plug is fouled.

[SpyderMan_GST]

Update:

Well I was going to keep driving it to determine if it was the chrome piston rings not seating, but I just started it up from cold for about 5 minutes and it barely smoked at all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUGaInn234

But after I gave it some gas (like 2k rpm) the bitch started smoking like it did in the first video i posted (started smoking a ton while idling.

Does this rule out piston rings not seating? Should I go ahead and check the turbo for cracks and send the head back to the machine shop to make sure they didn't fuck up?

[SpyderMan_GST]

I'm so fucking close to selling this God awful headache once and for all.

[Draki]

What you should try and do, is get with someone on talk from your area and see if they will lend you a hand in diagnosing the problem.

PM me if you're serious though.

[SpyderMan_GST]

It was the head -_-

[4g64fiero]

What was wrong with the head?