Towing a DSM behind my RV [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

: Towing a DSM behind my RV


42R1G
02-28-2010, 08:42 AM
I have a diesel pusher motorhome and I want to tow my 1g 5 speed AWD behind it. My plan is to use a t-bar attached to the bumper. I will be putting the car in neutral and rolling it on all 4ís. Does anyone have experience with anything like this? Iíve read all 22 towing related posts and I have not seen anything that would address long term towing on all 4ís.
The real question:
Technically is it feasible with the transmission? Iím not worried about the rear end or the transfer case, but since the input shaft in the transmission is not turning will the standard lubrication process take place in the transmission?

Skywise
02-28-2010, 11:38 AM
Read your manual, theres no way in hell you can do that. Get dollies or a trailer they're your only choices.

lilredeclipse
02-28-2010, 11:45 AM
JaxWhite1G on here does it all the time with his 1g FWD. He made brakets and flat tows it behind his SUV. I don't see it hurting an awd car.

Snot Rocket
02-28-2010, 11:52 AM
A light weight car trailer is the best way. That way you would have trailer brakes and could cover the car to protect it from road grim.

Gray91GSX
02-28-2010, 12:12 PM
Being a manual it should be fine, but I don't think I would do it with an automatic, but that being said, I would tow it with a trailer.

42R1G
02-28-2010, 02:43 PM
Read your manual, theres no way in hell you can do that. Get dollies or a trailer they're your only choices.

In the ideal world I would use a trailer, but I donít have money to get one yet. My other 1G and Evo are killing the budget lately. Flat tow bars are very cheap and I can fabricate the connections to the bumper easily. I can be on the road in no time for around 125.00. That includes magnetic lighting.
Do you know why you cannot flat tow them, specifically? I donít care what the Mitsubishi vehicle manual states, manuals are close to worthless to me in these obscure cases. I saw a pic of a member towing a boat with his 1G, I bet the manual frowns on that too.

TurboTSI95
02-28-2010, 03:34 PM
If you have it in manual and tow it on all fours I do not see a problem with it. As stated all 4 wheels need to move at the same speed in which they are. No different when drifting it down a hill or anything to pop start. You will be alright.

Snot Rocket
02-28-2010, 04:13 PM
Only thing I can see is your input shaft on the trans is not going to be turning. That might effect proper lubrication of some bearings. For a short distance it would not be bad, but for long distance it could hurt some bearings. Most of the AWD or 4 WD you see being towed behind RV's have transfer case they can shift to neutral. Plus they have a pump in the transfer case that is driven by the drive shaft that keeps it lubed.
My .02 on the subject.

Skywise
02-28-2010, 08:04 PM
You will burn up your differentials.

theblizz
02-28-2010, 08:21 PM
You will burn up your differentials.

Explain yourself.

K_Mans_TSI
02-28-2010, 10:27 PM
You will burn up your differentials.

LOL no you won't.

shott17
02-28-2010, 10:39 PM
Read your manual, theres no way in hell you can do that. Get dollies or a trailer they're your only choices.


It actually says flat towing is an acceptable means. If you where going to burn up your differentials by doing this, you would also theoretically do it by coasting to a light in neutral.

Skywise
03-01-2010, 03:18 AM
The factory service manual page 22 says specifially in the section "Special Handling Instructions for AWD models: Towing". "For AWD models the basic principal is that all 4 wheels are to be raised before towing." it doesn't say should, could or may, it says are to be raised. The abject ignorance in this thread about how differentials work is astounding. You can never safely turn a differential by the wheels without ruining it, period. They do not work in reverse. Coasting in neutral isn't the same as being drug around.

theblizz
03-01-2010, 03:57 AM
The owners manual also says to change your oil every 10k miles, wear your seat belt and let the car idle for 60 seconds after being on the highway...

I see plently of AWD cars being pulled by RV's. I'd assume half of them are 5 spd. Mainly CR-V's or Subarus.

I'm not saying you can go pull your DSM with your RV. I want to see facts and info on how it's bad to do so. So why is it perfectly fine to pull any other car behind a trailer, but not a DSM?



Skywise. The previous owner of my car, an obvious fuck-tard, pulled the rear drive shaft in my car, and put in a NT FWD trans. Only god knows how long he drove the car along like that. The rear dif and axles were left in the car.

By your logic, my rear end should be ruined. Right? I put in an AWD trans, t-case and drive shaft. Rear end works fine, the diff didn't implode...

Colin
03-01-2010, 07:11 AM
The factory service manual page 22 says specifially in the section "Special Handling Instructions for AWD models: Towing". "For AWD models the basic principal is that all 4 wheels are to be raised before towing." it doesn't say should, could or may, it says are to be raised. The abject ignorance in this thread about how differentials work is astounding. You can never safely turn a differential by the wheels without ruining it, period. They do not work in reverse. Coasting in neutral isn't the same as being drug around.


The owners manual states that for "Towing" as in reference to a tow truck.
You cannot tow a vehicle the same as a 2wd/4wd truck car where you can disengage the front differential nor the same as a FWD vehicle.

Flat towing with a 5spd will be fine. An automatic would not as the oil is only pumped in an auto when the trans is being spun by the engine.

You will not hurt the differential. Driving around with non matching tire sizes. THAT hurts a differential. I've seen way too many customers do that to their vehicles. 3 weeks ago we had a guy who came in for a noise in his FWD trans. His donut sized spare tire had been driven on to the point of no tread left. Fried the differential in the vehicle from the non matched spider gear speeds.

burkgonzo
03-01-2010, 08:46 AM
You will blow yourself to pieces!

I would just remove drive shaft and rent a uhaul dolly.

Skywise
03-01-2010, 09:52 AM
I think you guys who think its ok should pony up for the damages should anything happen.

The cars you see towed behind RVs aren't just any random 4x4 and infact they're chosen because they're 4x4s and can either disconnect the drive shafts to the differential or have a true neutral where none of the internals are driven by the wheels turning. And since this topic is so basic and terribly understood, trying to explain how a differential transfers forces is too daunting.

theblitz, the precise reason your rear diff wasn't blown up was because the input yoke was free to turn, when its not then the spider gears inside the diff turn and then burn up. Also you don't drive in a perfectly straight line all the time and every arc is going to stress the spiders even more.

Colin, perhaps you missed the key phrase in my quote "For AWD models the basic principal is that all 4 wheels are to be raised before towing." I tried to emphasise that. Now to your example, just what is it about the different sized tires that causes the damage? Its the spiders turning continously when they're not meant too, and they burn out their bearings and the fun begins. Thats the same issue with 4wd.

shott17
03-01-2010, 10:45 AM
I have flat towed many awd DSM's with no ill effects.

cAPSlOCK97gst
03-01-2010, 11:57 AM
I think you guys who think its ok should pony up for the damages should anything happen.

The cars you see towed behind RVs aren't just any random 4x4 and infact they're chosen because they're 4x4s and can either disconnect the drive shafts to the differential or have a true neutral where none of the internals are driven by the wheels turning. And since this topic is so basic and terribly understood, trying to explain how a differential transfers forces is too daunting.

theblitz, the precise reason your rear diff wasn't blown up was because the input yoke was free to turn, when its not then the spider gears inside the diff turn and then burn up. Also you don't drive in a perfectly straight line all the time and every arc is going to stress the spiders even more.

Colin, perhaps you missed the key phrase in my quote "For AWD models the basic principal is that all 4 wheels are to be raised before towing." I tried to emphasise that. Now to your example, just what is it about the different sized tires that causes the damage? Its the spiders turning continously when they're not meant too, and they burn out their bearings and the fun begins. Thats the same issue with 4wd.

What are you talking about?

So you're saying everytime there isn't power going through the drivetrain (in neutral or clutch disengaged) the differentials are slowly burning up?

:rolleyes:

The owner's manual is referring to the normal tow truck practice of lifting two wheels off the ground. Towing with all 4 wheels on the ground, spinning at the same speed, is fine.

I'm having trouble following your thought process...

15psi88
03-01-2010, 12:02 PM
The manual isn't expecting you to have flat tow bars on your car for one. So when they say "all four wheels must be raised", it's talking in regards to a tow truck.

All the wheels are still going the same speed, the differentials aren't even being employed at this point. The example of two different sized tires is legit. Each wheel must turn at two different speeds and the differential is in place to compensate for it.
There will be no input torque. Yes the differential "senses" it. When there is none, everything is laying loose.
I don't understand the problem you say you know of but wont explain.


edit,
I was typing this when Capslock replied.
I didn't mean to basically repeat what he said lol.

K_Mans_TSI
03-01-2010, 12:57 PM
By your logic the rear would burn up every time you let off the gas to go down hill since youre taking the load off the rear however still turning it.

Skywise
03-01-2010, 01:11 PM
No, thats by your logic. My logic says coasting and dragging are 2 different actions and impact the differentials differently. Why you guys think if you tow with a truck, rv or elephant makes a difference is beyond me. But its not my car, and I don't care enough to continue this thread, do your own research or don't makes no difference to me what you believe.

cAPSlOCK97gst
03-01-2010, 01:20 PM
Still waiting on actual evidence/proof that what your saying has even a modicum of truth.

Skywise
03-01-2010, 01:23 PM
Keep holding your breath.

And to compare towing to coasting is absurd, just how far do you think you can coast?

15psi88
03-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Probably because a tow truck usually has those funny looking things in the back that will physically lift the front tires off the ground. I think that makes it slightly different than an RV or elephant.
I've come to the conclusion that you don't even understand your own logic or else you would be explaining to us what you mean rather than copping out.

Coasting is exactly the same principal. You think a 20 year old car hasn't had substantial coasting times?

benspilk09
03-01-2010, 01:28 PM
I have flat towed many awd DSM's with no ill effects.

I think this is enough to answer the question, as long as the wheels are turning the same speed and you have a manual transmission, there is no harm in towing it. It would be pretty piss poor engineering if they made a vehicle that couldn't be towed, as it is a given that cars will break down and need to be towed at some point.

Skywise
03-01-2010, 01:48 PM
Ok braniacs, I'll show you a picture.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm

Take a look a the bottom image, the turning example. Now if the input shaft isn't turning, which it won't be, those 2 red pieces have to turn instead. They're not meant to turn alot. Every component that functions like those pinions are subject to the same stress.

15psi88, you are an idiot. First of all theres not going to be any heat built up over 20 years of coasting. Intermittent use of the pinions isn't a problem, its prolonged use, which is what I've said over and over again. So, you comming to your conclusion simply means your thought process is defective.

15psi88
03-01-2010, 02:09 PM
Haha. That's a personal attack.
Anyway, you do know in neutral the drive shaft will turn freely?
All those animations do is show exactly what I said earlier, they work when the wheels are going different speeds, IE when turning.
I'm not sure we're on the same page.

benspilk09
03-01-2010, 02:44 PM
Ok braniacs, I'll show you a picture.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm

Take a look a the bottom image, the turning example. Now if the input shaft isn't turning, which it won't be, those 2 red pieces have to turn instead. They're not meant to turn alot. Every component that functions like those pinions are subject to the same stress.

You realize that the differential in the axle has nothing to do with towing right? Unless you have very different sized tires on the right and left your spider gears (the "red pieces") will be just fine. The people are talking about the viscous coupling burning up in the transfer case when the cars are towed with the front wheels off the ground. The open differential in the axle will be just fine.

cAPSlOCK97gst
03-01-2010, 02:56 PM
Ok braniacs, I'll show you a picture.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm

Take a look a the bottom image, the turning example. Now if the input shaft isn't turning, which it won't be, those 2 red pieces have to turn instead. They're not meant to turn alot. Every component that functions like those pinions are subject to the same stress.

15psi88, you are an idiot. First of all theres not going to be any heat built up over 20 years of coasting. Intermittent use of the pinions isn't a problem, its prolonged use, which is what I've said over and over again. So, you comming to your conclusion simply means your thought process is defective.

:rolleyes::confused::D:P:chair:

I hate to be such a dick, but everything you're saying is just so LOLable.

shott17
03-01-2010, 03:12 PM
Well, since this thread has went off track due to personal attacks and general WRONG asshattery. Im gonna lock it down. OP, Best of luck to you.