Well...Timing Belt Balance Shaft [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

: Well...Timing Belt Balance Shaft


NoHndlbrsRqrd
11-18-2010, 07:46 PM
Hello all. So, I guess I lucked out in that I now have a great excuse to learn how to change the timing belt and also do a BSE. I had wanted to but convinced myself that I had neither space nor time nor tools, which rationalized paying to get it done. I call the highest recommended mechanic in town, who has been around 30+ years, who not only said I could not buy the parts and give them to him but also that he steered away from DSMs since they were hard to find parts for and hard to work on.:dunno: This means that you all are better mechanics than this guy by default. Anyway I truly wanted to do it myself so sweet, I do have a couple questions though before diving into this and buying the parts and tools. If anyone has additional advice separate from my questions I would greatly appreciate that too. Ok, I have been planning on getting the timing kit from extreme psi all oem + BSE kit, topline waterpump, front and rear energy suspension motor mounts, 3 oem accessory belts(ac, pwr steering, alt), new turbo drain tube + gasket, new oil pan, new outer waterpump pulley, oil pump cover gasket, oil pump filter gasket, oil pump seal, front crankshaft seal.

Based on the vfaq for timing belt and BSE I think that's it, plus a couple things that need done anyway and if I understand the process will be easily done ie motor mounts and new oil pan. Does this list seem right to you all? Anything I should add that would be easy and necessary since it will be apart anyway?

Several BSE questions. Is the vfaq for the 1g BSE applicable to 2g? If not what are the differences I should be aware of. The gaskets and seals, I have found them all at extreme but a couple of the part numbers between the vfaq and the site are different, which makes me nervous. Also, there is a set I stumbled upon from fel-pro that looks like it has everything and then some but Im not sure since the names are slightly different, and I wonder if anyone has experience with these particular ones or is oem the way to go. http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=19704&cat=744&page=1
I have read of some people having oil pressure problems after BSE. Is this always the case? It seems that to port the oil filter housing all at same time as BSE would be relatively easy, but if it turns out that pressure is not always a problem than would that then lower it too much?

Those are the questions I can recall at the moment, but I have been working on the list in my head for days and probably forgot something. Thanks to all who have any advice or criticism, and props to everyone for a great site.

cAPSlOCK97gst
11-18-2010, 08:45 PM
Do a little research and consider this product:

http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/AMS-4G63-Race-Balance-Shaft-Eliminator-Kit.html

NoHndlbrsRqrd
11-18-2010, 09:59 PM
An excellent suggestion, thanks CAPS. I had read about people removing the counter-weight on the shaft just for that reason but I have no way to do it. That extra hundred would pay for itself if it saves a oem oil pump. I wonder if most core exchanges are accepted or if it is common that they cant be used.

NoHndlbrsRqrd
11-19-2010, 03:58 PM
I read a post where this AMS kit was thought of as a waste of money, saying that oil pump failure is more likely caused by improper timing belt tension.

Octane
11-19-2010, 05:11 PM
Negative on the topline water pump! Definatly go OEM. A difference in a timing belt job on a 2g is their is much less space on that side of the motor. If I was in your position I would replace the balance shaft components and not eliminate them, Ive heard its quite a bitch to eliminate with the engine in the bay.

NoHndlbrsRqrd
11-20-2010, 12:43 PM
OEM over Topline, thanks. This is why I chose to post, because sometimes no matter how many threads one reads there is still conflicting opinions. Some say topline is fine, some OEM, some say its easy to pull the balance shafts in car, some say its impossible. Octane, when you say replace the balance shaft components you are meaning the belt, tensioner pulley and bearings right?

Octane
11-20-2010, 02:04 PM
Yeah in regards to topline spend the money for the OEM you dont want to have to redo this job when it fails on you. By components I mean the balance shaft belt and the tensioner, not quite sure what you mean by bearings?

NoHndlbrsRqrd
11-20-2010, 04:17 PM
I mean the bearings for the Balance shaft. What I have read of peoples experience is that even if the balance shaft belt and tensioner are kept in good condition and changed regularly the balance shaft bearings tend to seize up causing the belt to skip and break. That is why they say one must do the BSE and not just change the belt and tensioner regularly. That is what I have gleaned so far from reading every post that pops up when searching, and from my understanding if someone is going to change the bearings then they might as well just eliminate the shaft and port the OFH since to change the bearings the shaft must be removed anyway.

Racah15
11-23-2010, 10:12 AM
I'll speak from experience, that removing the balance shafts with the engine is a pain in the ass. If you're going to do everything (timing, balanceshafts, waterpump) I think it would be worth the extra few hours and just remove the engine from the car. I spent a few hours (taking breaks and shitty,dull,handsaw) sawing off my front balance shaft because it wouldn't come out, only to find that after i cut through it, it still wasn't able to come out. That put my in a rage of sailor talking and metal throwing. Luckily during my quest, the bearing was taken out, which free'd up space and I got to remove it. Getting the bearings in was part 2 of of my epic quest, and quite frankly, hard as fish-stick-tits [/tourettes guy]
If you were just doing the timing belt alone, I'd say leave the engine is the car.

So yeah I'd remove the engine if I had to do it again.
The timing belt is 10x easier to do, The water pump is 10x easier to do, and the balance shaft removal, is 30x easier to do with the engine out.



But goodluck brother, Hope your quest goes easy

NoHndlbrsRqrd
04-27-2011, 10:17 PM
I know it's been awhile since I posted this but since I hate reading a thread that just fizzles out I thought I would conclude my own. I finally got all the parts (all oem) ordered and the free time set aside to change the timing belt in March. I ended up replacing the balance belt, timing belt, all brand new tensioners and pulleys, new water pump, water pump outer pulley that was bent from past owner, and all accessory belts. I also did the window weld and cutting board mod on my front motor mount.

I took my time through the whole process and it finished up nicely. There was a few points that took a bit of extra time to get right, namely putting tension on the new belt, and of all things getting the AC bracket bolts back on. But on the upside next time I need to do any of these things it will be much quicker.

For anyone who reads this and is looking at jumping into the project I highly recommend getting the Jay racing timing belt tool kit. I got mine through JNZ and it made the process easier x3 ;)
Big thanks to everyone in the DSM community who have helped and made the information available for learning. It's a nice feeling to finish a job like this, turn the key and hear the engine purr.
All the best, Dan