Crower vs. Eagle rods [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

: Crower vs. Eagle rods


DSM Storm
09-13-2001, 11:10 PM
So I got both sets of rods today, Crowers and Eagle rods, the crowers I ordered a long time ago and they kept being backordered so the shop sent me eagles but it kept getting delayed, so i couldnt wait and ordered crowers from someone off the trader.

Eagle Rods:
PROS:

Rods are noticably lighter than the crowers
ARP 2000 rod bolts
Machining inside and outside the caps are very well done, cant! even make out where the cap seperates from the rod, and I say that with all honesty
Nice smooth finish
Wider wrist pin bore (good because load placed on the wrist pin is spread out)
Very inexpensive rod @ $400-
Extremely good deal for the money! and very avalable


CONS:

Wider wrist pin bore (bad because a few more grams could of been saved making the rod even lighter)
Noticable burr on outer edge of the wrist pine bore, noticable by eye and feel
Inner edge of wrist pin bore has been unevenly countersunk, this doesnt change anything operation wise but to a machinist such as myself, we take notice to such minor blemeshes.
Uneven machining of the inner beam, once again...a machinists notice to minor imperfections, does not change operation at all
Little to no information on machining procedures and rod specs, very dissapointing
Very few people running these rods, no idea as to what they are capable of holding.
Flank thickness is very thin. (.087")


Final Thought
Very very well made rod, the lack of information on the rod specs didnt float my boat, it is made clear that these rods will not hold as much power as the crowers will, and the fact that they are an H-beam rod means they they will tolerate alot less detonation, I did measure the center cection showing me a measurment of .196". Do not be fooled by the name or the look of the rod, this rod will hold at least 600hp to the wheels without a doubt.


Crower Rods:
PROS:

ARP 2000 rod bolts
I-beam construction is the same as stock
Extremely nice machining work & finish all around
Oiling hole at the top of the wrist pin bore to feel oil from the cylinder walls to the center underside of the piston
Noticed no blemishes
Came with a "CROWEROD TAG" showing information on rod specs
Rod has been proven to put well over 800hp to the wheels, have been known to take a beating without any operational failure. (cant give Eagle a praise on that due to their recent release for the 4G63 engine...within time)


CONS:

Noticably heavier rod
Very expensive! compared to Eagle rods
Can sometimes be difficult to attain a set
Rod can be used in all applications but you wont be pushing this rod to its limits unless your making Xtreme power
Eagle rods are better for cars making 500 - 600hp to the wheels


Final Thought
Crower rods are definatly an awsome rod, I however will admit that I am going with the crowers only due to the fact that I bought them for the same price as the Eagle rods, they also offer me a better piece of mind, if it wasnt for the price being right, then the eagle rods would of suit me just fine.

I think we have two winners here, some of you may have heard me speak badly of the Eagle rods, in honesty it was because i was upset about something and was looking to start an arguement so I picked on a topic concerning Eagle rods, sorry for any wrong information, however both of these rods are exeptionally well made, I was dissapointed about the burr on the outer edge of the eagle rods but its no big deal. I hope to have some pics up by the end of the weekend and some numbers on thicknesses and depths etc... to be hosted from my site.

Thanks
Storm

[Edited by DSM Storm on 09-14-2001 at 01:18 AM]

BeachBird
09-14-2001, 10:38 AM
Excellent comparo. Did you happen to weigh them? If so, how well-matched was each set?

DSM Storm
09-14-2001, 09:52 PM
Actually no, I did not weight them, the crower rods had a weight in grams on thier spec sheet but my engine builder wanted my engine this morning so the rods went with it, and the pictures of the crower rods will be with them installed which kind of sucks, however the eagle rods will be taken this week. I will get a weight between the two rods for you, a buddy of mine has a scale that im going to borrow.

Storm

davejcb
09-15-2001, 04:37 PM
Who carries the Eagle rods? I'll be looking for a set soon.

DSM Storm
09-15-2001, 05:10 PM
I carry a set of Eagle rods :) I have a set of 6-bolt rods, going a bit cheaper than what they stock them for. But you can get them from Extreme turbo for $400- or from Buschur for $500-.

Storm

colonelfox
09-25-2001, 03:36 PM
I've been looking for some 6 bolt Eagle rods for a few weeks, and can't find them anywhere. I just wanted to try them out, and save a few $. What do you want for them cause I'm sick of looking at the empty block in my living room, and the engineless dsm in my yard?

DSM Storm
09-26-2001, 01:34 AM
I would like to get $360- for them, I did pay $420 for them new and shipped to my home. I would like to get rid of them, I was going to trade this guy a PS2+ game for one but he flaked out on me. But they are brand new, never used, they are still in original packing along with information and lube. If your really interested drop me an e-mail @ override@mediaone.net

Thanks
Storm

BeachBird
09-27-2001, 12:00 AM
Storm, ever get the weights on those rod sets?

Thanks
Kevin

DSM Storm
09-27-2001, 01:58 AM
Sorry, I havnt had time to take pictures of the Eagle rods and weigh them, im going to try to weigh them this weekend If i can remember to ask my friend. Its just that Ive been really busy trying to get my car back together and the time just isnt there, but I promise, I will do a closing on both sets of the rods.

Storm

DSM Storm
09-30-2001, 12:40 AM
Got some weights for you, now I dont have the crowers here, they are at the machine shop along with the rest of my engine, but if i remember correctly ... Ive also decided to add Pauter in for reference, hope you all dont mind..

Rod Weights per rod:

Crower Rods: 639 grams
Eagle Rods: 550 grams
Pauter Rods: 675 grams[/list

Weight between all 4 rods:

Crowers vs.Pauters : .39lbs or 144 grams
Crowers vs. Eagles: .95lbs or 356 grams
Pauter vs. Eagles: 1.34lbs or 500 grams[/list]

In the first set, the Crowers weigh 144 grams less than pauter rods, the Pauters weight almost half a pound more..ouch!

In the second set, the eagles weight almost 1 lb less than the crowers!

The third set, the Eagles weigh almost 1 and a half pounds less, I feel bad for the suckers that think bigger is better!

Total Weight between all 4 rods:

Crowers: 6.85lbs or 2556 grams
Eagles: 5.9lbs or 2200 grams
Pauters: 7.23lbs or 2700 grams[/list]

As you can see, the pauter rods are quite heavier than both the other rods shown here, they are mostly built for guys making serious power, I was quoted that the pauter rods would handle well over 1100hp, thats phuqin nuts! But for a street car, the advantage goes to the eagle rods. Hope this helps..

Storm

BeachBird
10-01-2001, 10:23 PM
Storm, thanks for taking the time. That's the info I was looking for. Good luck with the new engine.

Kevin

DSM Storm
10-01-2001, 11:23 PM
Not a problem Beach, however, one thing I did forget to mention is that these rods reviewed above were all for a 6-bolt engine, note that the 7 bolt engines have lighter rods due to the extra milling they require to fit the wrist pin and crankshaft.

Storm

awd92gsx
10-15-2001, 10:46 PM
I didn't realize Eagle was making rods for 6 bolts.

What's the link for the Eagle website?

DSM Storm
10-15-2001, 10:53 PM
Dont know, anyone?

Storm

Crankwalker
10-18-2001, 12:01 AM
Eagle rods are probably the most commonly used rod in NASCAR with the exception of Cup and Busch cars. They work, their reliable, and reasonable in cost. I don't understand why the H-beam is more prone to problems from detonation? Can someone explain? Every high end race motor I know of uses a H-beam rod design.

LA Enterprises make their Kryptonite rods for all out race applications. I believe most Cup, Busch and World of Outlaws teams use them. Very expensive but worth it.

Weight of rods shouldn't play to much of a role in it's strength. The heat treat process and design will determin this for the most part. The Kryptonite rods I mentioned are very lightweight. Aren't people using aluminum rods to reduce the rotational mass in some applications?

Mark

DSM Storm
10-18-2001, 01:51 AM
>>I don't understand why the H-beam is more prone to problems from detonation?<<

An H-beam rod is very thin in the center beam, in this case, I think I measured a little over a hundred thousanths, H-beam rods do not handle as much shock so they tend to crack, not that im trying to imply that an I-beam rod cannot crack due to excessive knock because they can and Ive witnessed so, but just that due to the design of an H-beam rod, they are a bit less forgiving.

>>Every high end race motor I know of uses a H-beam rod design<<

Right, due to the design of the rod, they are able to make the rod lighter without sacrificing integrity.


>>Weight of rods shouldn't play to much of a role in it's strength. The heat treat process and design will determin this for the most part. The Kryptonite rods I mentioned are very lightweight. Aren't people using aluminum rods to reduce the rotational mass in some applications?<<

Ive honestly never heard of kryptonite rods, I will have to get into it sometime, do you have a site link? ; regarding weight and design... like I stated above ; People are using aluminum rods, they are using them in 4G63 engines also, there is a company called "Groden Racing Rods" making aluminum rods for the 4G63 engine, check out their site....

http://www.ctechbis.com/Groden/Main.htm

Storm

Crankwalker
10-18-2001, 08:47 AM
Here's an address for LA Enterprises / Kryptonite.

http://www.crankshaft.com

DSM Storm
10-18-2001, 09:51 AM
Nice page, I didnt get into the site much, but im assuming that they dont make stuff for imports, or do they do custom orders? have you ever spoke with one of their reps?

Storm

Crankwalker
10-18-2001, 09:55 AM
They do but like most vendors of that type the delivery times are stretched out a ways.

yourNexus
10-26-2001, 08:50 AM
hey i purchased the pauters, they are heavy i grant you that but I am looking for 600hp at the wheels ultimately so i figured i get the beefy rods that i will never have a doubt in mind if will hold up or not , i will be shaving more than enough weight off my crank to make up for it also.
here are some pictures
http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/coated.jpg
http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/pauter2.jpg
http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/pauter3.jpg
http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/pauter7.jpg

DSM Storm
10-26-2001, 09:09 AM
>>they are heavy i grant you that but I am looking for 600hp at the wheels ultimately so i figured i get the beefy rods that i will never have a doubt in mind if will hold up or not<<

Im looking for a slightly smaller goal within the next few years, I also wanted a rod that would hold up to what I could give it, so I went with a set of crowers, glazer runs the same crowers that I run and hes putting over 800hp to the rollers so that should say something, another thing is, lately everyone has been going with lighter rods and aluminum rods, so I didnt want something too heavy. But Pauter does make a very nice connecting rod, are those a set of Arias pistons I see in the backround :) Whats the grind on those cams? :)

Storm

stinkonamonkey
10-26-2001, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by yourNexus
hey i purchased the pauters, they are heavy i grant you that but I am looking for 600hp at the wheels ultimately so i figured i get the beefy rods that i will never have a doubt in mind if will hold up or not , i will be shaving more than enough weight off my crank to make up for it also.


HOLY ROD SIZE BATMAN!!!! Thats a beefy set of rods for sure!!!

NINJA7
10-26-2001, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by stinkonamonkey
Originally posted by yourNexus
hey i purchased the pauters, they are heavy i grant you that but I am looking for 600hp at the wheels ultimately so i figured i get the beefy rods that i will never have a doubt in mind if will hold up or not , i will be shaving more than enough weight off my crank to make up for it also.


HOLY ROD SIZE BATMAN!!!! Thats a beefy set of rods for sure!!!

If your goal is only 600hp,then the pauters are over kill. The crowers will be more than adequate. As far as the eagle rods- they are good for about 90% of us dsmer, because they too are capable of holding 450-500hp.
In some ways I understand, you dont want to break anything. I was in that same state of mind, but after seeing, listening and expirencing a few things about our cars I say we somtimes tend to have an over kill attitude and go overboard.
I have learned to keep things simple and keep a close eye on things. :D

BTW...I hope those aren't WEBCAMS next to your Pauter Rods! Now! :D You should have spent the extra cash on HKS cam rather than Pauter Rods! Reason #1 Your bottom end may be bullet proof but your top end is a time bomb!


"ALL IN ALL DO WHAT YOUR HEART DESIRE" my $.01

yourNexus
10-26-2001, 01:26 PM
yea actually overkill is what i was going for, that is pretty much my moto
those are ross racing pistons 9:1 with swain tech coatings on them
as far as the webcams , yea i have heard about the lobe wear issue, im not even sure if i want cams other than stock but i figured i would try these, i will watch the cams periodiclly for wear and if they do at least they stand behind them, also i like the way the cams sound (street grind by the way)

awd92gsx
10-26-2001, 06:34 PM
I'm wondering to myself...if Eagles are good to about 500hp, then are they really any better than the stock big rods, which are good for around 500 themselves?

colonelfox
10-26-2001, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by awd92gsx
I'm wondering to myself...if Eagles are good to about 500hp, then are they really any better than the stock big rods, which are good for around 500 themselves?
I heard the range was around 650-700 hp for Eagles from a couple places. I would think they safely hold 600 to the ground. They're a lot beefier than the stock big rods. Thanks again DSM Storm.

awd92gsx
10-26-2001, 09:16 PM
What do you think EVO III pistons are good to?

That's my current thought... Eagle rods and EVO III pistons.

DSM Storm
10-27-2001, 01:17 AM
>>I'm wondering to myself...if Eagles are good to about 500hp, then are they really any better than the stock big rods, which are good for around 500 themselves? <<


Yea, but are stock 90 style rods reliable at 500 wheel horsepower? I estimate that the Eagle rods are reliable at around 500-700 hp, no one here has tried them to an extreme application, most of us here would also rather spend the extra $400-$700 to ensure that our investment is not somethig that is going to destroy itself, however going to something as large as a Pauter Rod is a bit of an overkill and can actually hurt, but Ross makes a nice piston, can we get a better look at those babys? You mentioned 9:1 compression, what head gasket did you end up going with?

Fox <-- Let me know how your setup turns out. Glad you like the rods.


Storm

yourNexus
10-27-2001, 01:04 PM
sure i got some ross piston pics for ya
as far as the headgasket... felpro , nothing fancy if somthing goes wrong with this motor i want it to blow the head gasket and not somthing else

here ya go
not the best quality pics

http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/Jun15$04.JPG
http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/Jun15$06.JPG
http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/Jun15$08.JPG
http://www.yournexus.com/enginerebuild/Jun15$03.JPG

DSM Storm
10-27-2001, 10:36 PM
Very nice man, very nice, what kind of machine are you driving? I noticed that the pistons are flat tops instead of reverse dome, you building a NA car? Im a fan of the Ross pistons myself, let us know how ure ride turns out.

Storm

gsxalex
10-31-2001, 04:16 AM
yeah, whats with the flat-tops?
My 9:1 ross look identical to yours in every aspect, except mine have dish to them, rather than flat.

Isn't the dish better for proper "squish"?

any reason you went with the flatties?

My 9:1's definetly like to knock more with anything over 15psi with pump gas.

gsxalex
10-31-2001, 04:19 AM
Oh, by the way, this was an excellent right-up, storm.

sleeper142
11-03-2001, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by DSM Storm
Got some weights for you, now I dont have the crowers here, they are at the machine shop along with the rest of my engine, but if i remember correctly ... Ive also decided to add Pauter in for reference, hope you all dont mind..

Rod Weights per rod:

Crower Rods: 639 grams
Eagle Rods: 550 grams
Pauter Rods: 675 grams[/list

Weight between all 4 rods:

Crowers vs.Pauters : .39lbs or 144 grams
Crowers vs. Eagles: .95lbs or 356 grams
Pauter vs. Eagles: 1.34lbs or 500 grams[/list]

In the first set, the Crowers weigh 144 grams less than pauter rods, the Pauters weight almost half a pound more..ouch!

In the second set, the eagles weight almost 1 lb less than the crowers!

The third set, the Eagles weigh almost 1 and a half pounds less, I feel bad for the suckers that think bigger is better!

Total Weight between all 4 rods:

Crowers: 6.85lbs or 2556 grams
Eagles: 5.9lbs or 2200 grams
Pauters: 7.23lbs or 2700 grams[/list]

As you can see, the pauter rods are quite heavier than both the other rods shown here, they are mostly built for guys making serious power, I was quoted that the pauter rods would handle well over 1100hp, thats phuqin nuts! But for a street car, the advantage goes to the eagle rods. Hope this helps..

Storm
How does this compare to the wieght of the stock rods? Because i know that changning the interal rotating mass will change the torque curves... since torque is the measurement of rotating mass.
Albert 95 Tsi
possibly buying eagle rods today.... let me know

DSM Storm
11-03-2001, 05:18 PM
I dont know, Ive never weighed stock rods, I did have a set but never got around to having them taken off the pistons+pins.

Storm

sleeper142
11-03-2001, 06:54 PM
Will the eagle rods fit on stock 95 pistons? I need to know because id like to run this combo.
Albert (doesn't want to have to worry about piston slap, with a forged piston)

yourNexus
11-05-2001, 03:35 PM
the flat tops are supposed to be 9 to 1, they had better be thats what i asked magnus for. ill let you know how it runs next year , one of my 2mm over valves broke off in the cylinder after 300 miles, you dont want to know the specifics its ugly... so next year it will be fixed.

QKRTHNU
11-06-2001, 08:57 AM
Here's a quick comparison between I & H beam rods.
This is from ENDYN http://www.theoldone.com They're an engine builder, they've been around forever in NASCAR, Pro-Stock, Indy, etc.

"Back to rods again. The two most common "types" of connecting rod designs are the I beam and H beam configurations. The I and H refer to the shape of the beam of the rod when viewed from the end. The beam is the portion which connects the crank end (big end) to the rod end (small end). Each configuration has some unique qualities, however when each is designed and manufactured properly, the differences in strength are minimal.

The I beam configuration is slightly better than the H beam when it comes to compression strength. So, under load the I beam can handle slightly more pressure before bending. The H beam rods are stronger in the unloaded cycles and are therefore a better choice for high rpm applications, as they don't easily break on the overlap stroke.

The weights are pretty much the same for each, so the only real differences would be slight and application driven. It's also easy to "modify" each configuration to minimize the undesirable characteristics, and once again you're back at a toss-up on the (type) to use.

Manufacturing is another area that must be addressed, and I believe that the H beam is somewhat less costly to machine than the I beam rods, so there is a slight cost advantage in this respect for the H beams."

BigRedAWD
11-06-2001, 11:04 PM
Has anyone actually used the eagle rods. If the eagle rods are just as good as the crowers great. I would love to save the weight but, I do not mind the extra weight if my bottom end is going to be bullet proof. I know the crower have a reputation of being indisructible. I don't want to spend a couple of thousand dollars on an engine but have that all go out the door because I saved a hundred bucks on my rods.

steve

sleeper142
11-07-2001, 07:27 AM
I ordered my eagle rods today, 350 shipped. its a group buy from ctc motorsports. http://www.groupbuycenter.com
I dont think you have to worry about breaking these rods, especially if people can run 10's and 11's on 90 big rods. Depending on your application these should be plenty strong for most street cars.
Albert

intaginize
11-14-2001, 11:40 AM
Does anyone know how much it would cost to get the 6-bolt Eagle rods machined to fit the 2g 8.5:1 pistons? Would it be worth the money to do?

sleeper142
11-14-2001, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by intaginize
Does anyone know how much it would cost to get the 6-bolt Eagle rods machined to fit the 2g 8.5:1 pistons? Would it be worth the money to do?
This is exactly the route i am taking, when i get a quote, ill let you know how much i end up paying.
Albert

intaginize
11-14-2001, 11:49 AM
Sweet, let me know.

High Booster
11-10-2002, 07:45 PM
I called eagle and talked to alan about the 6 bolt DSM rod. He told me the limiting factor for the eagle rod is not the connecting rod but the 5/16" rod bolts. The rod bolts he explaned have held up well in 700hp dsm engines. But he didn't have any higher hp test cars to test them in so he puts the limit at a safe 700. He also said that some builders are going with 3/8" bolts. The 3/8" bolt itself he says is good for over 900hp. Hope this helps.

colonelfox
11-10-2002, 07:48 PM
Holy 1 year old thread Batman!
I'm looking to get another set of Eagle rods to build up a 6 bolt block for my GST. I was very happy with the cost and quality of the Eagle rods. The rod bolts are ARP though. I thought they would be good for more than 700HP. Still, 700 is more than 99% of us will see.

High Booster
11-10-2002, 08:10 PM
I was told by alan that "on paper" the 5/16" ARP bolts are good for up to 850. So I guess 700 hp is a conserveative rating. The thicker 3/8 bolt i think are for those who belive too much is never enough.

intaginize
11-11-2002, 09:48 AM
This thread is OLD good to know Eagle rods can handle 700hp even know I doubt ill ever push that much. I wonder how much HP my Ross pistons can handle?
Later :)

colonelfox
11-11-2002, 03:39 PM
Doesn't Extreme use ross pistons? They're breaking like 800 at the wheels.

Mike'sGSX64
11-12-2002, 01:09 AM
So no one found out about putting 2G pistons on eagle rods.

colonelfox
11-12-2002, 01:42 PM
That was what I had planned on doing with the rods I had for my 1G. I'm sure it's possible, but after the cost of new pistons, and machine work, you'd be just a few dollars cheaper than just buying a set of forged pistons. I would think it would be harder to machine the Eagle rods, and probably more expensive. I'm not a machinest or anything, it just seems like it would cost more due to the hardness of the eagle rods. :dunno:

300dollarGSX
11-20-2002, 04:32 PM
Anybody have trouble getting the full floating pins from the Ross pistons through the Eagle rods? I expected the pins to slide in easily while mock assembling them, but couldn't get them to go in more than about 1/4 of the way. I didn't want to force it, so I pulled it back out. I am familiar with full floating pins on Toyota engines which slide in easily.

colonelfox
11-20-2002, 04:39 PM
They have to be press fitted with a hydraulic press don't they? :dunno: There's ways to do it yourself, but trust me, it's not worth it. A machine shop will do it usually for around $7 to $11 a piston.

300dollarGSX
11-20-2002, 04:47 PM
The pins for Ross pistons are supposed to be full floating, meaning you slide them through the rod and the piston and put spiro-locks or the like on the ends to keep the pins from coming back out. I'm thinking that I will need to take these Eagle rods to the machine shop and have them hone the pin bore to whatever specs the Ross pins require. I just don't know what those specs are...

Does anybody have the spec sheet for the Ross pistons and pins? I lost mine. I got my pistons from the group buy. They are 8.5:1 .020 oversize.

knockedoutawd
11-23-2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by DSM Storm

Eagle Rods:
PROS:


Machining inside and outside the caps are very well done, cant! even make out where the cap seperates from the rod, and I say that with all honesty




So true. I was amazed when I held it in my hand. You seriously cannot see where the cap and rod connect. :)

http://www.cse.ca/darko/piston.jpg

colonelfox
11-23-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by 300dollarGSX
The pins for Ross pistons are supposed to be full floating, meaning you slide them through the rod and the piston and put spiro-locks or the like on the ends to keep the pins from coming back out. I'm thinking that I will need to take these Eagle rods to the machine shop and have them hone the pin bore to whatever specs the Ross pins require. I just don't know what those specs are...

Does anybody have the spec sheet for the Ross pistons and pins? I lost mine. I got my pistons from the group buy. They are 8.5:1 .020 oversize.
Ahh. I misunderstood what you were complaining about. I've never used floating pins before, and just jumped to the conclusion that you needed them press fitted. That's odd that the pins don't fit at all. There shouldn't be any machining needed. Are you sure you got the right rods? :dunno: I'd make sure they fit the crank as well. Maybe there was a mixup or something.

300dollarGSX
11-23-2002, 08:39 PM
Good point, so I used my mic to see where everything stands:
Rod journal diameter inside rod: 1.877 (without bearings)
Rod journal outside diameter on crank: 1.771
Rod pin bore inside diameter: .825
Pin diameter: .828
???
Maybe I should call the people I bought the rods and pistons from. They assured me that no machining would be required to fit the pistons onto these rods. Why would the pin diameter be larger than the bore diameter? Maybe I'm just tired, I'll mic it again tomorrow. I don't have any good rod bearings, so I'm not sure if that clearance of .106 is correct.

colonelfox
11-23-2002, 08:59 PM
Yeah, it sounds like a machining problem to me. I'd get ahold of them.
If I had a mic, I'd give you the measurements on a standard bearing, but I'm an idiot, and passed up several opportunities to buy one. Just like me passing up on a tranny jack, and hating myself the last 3 times I had to drop it.
It could be either the pins, or the rods, but I suspect the rods themselves because the pins fit freely into the pistons. It also seems like the difference between crank, and inside the rods crank journal is too small. That's only .106" of space to fit the bearing, and still have the proper oil clearance. Maybe I'm not thinking right, but that seems very tight to me.

cmeflibi
11-24-2002, 10:06 PM
I got the eagle fords, but I wen't with the JE 9:1's. Am I going to have alot of problems with these pistons b/c I see everyone here uses 8.5:1 rosses? A guy on the first or second page said he had alot of knock over 15 psi with street gas. On RRE's website, they say you can run regular gas at higher boost.???

im confused

2mchboost4u
11-25-2002, 05:55 PM
-- Ok im nto sure if i should be posting this in here or not but since we're on the topic of pistons and rods....

-- Im trying to do a 4g64 conversion on my 95' awd tsi BUT.... since the stroke is longer there could be a piston to valve clearance problem.... everyone says buy the ross pistons and crower rods.... well i had anticipated that from the get go. My only problem is no one can tell me the specs i need.

-- I know the 4g64 bore stock is 85.6mm (3.4055") and there needs to be a .006" skirt clearance.... so i know all of that fun stuff

-- My true question is what about the longer stroke? how do i fix the V2P clearance problem? I know use 2g rods.... but what needs to be done to the pistons? or can i just order pistons and rods send everything to the machine shop and say make it work? I know more machining will cost more but i cant seem to get any answers anywhere.

-- My Plans for the 4g64 when i get them straight: Ross 8.5:1 c/r pistons, Crower Rods, Knife Cut crankshaft, stage III buschur Race Head, HKS cams (not sure of what grind), Findanza Adjustable Cam Gears for the 4g63, and elminated balance shafts.

-- Somebody please help me :)

colonelfox
11-25-2002, 07:52 PM
From what I know, there's no piston to valve problem, and no special machining of the pistons or rods is needed. Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard of anything like that being needed. I'd really like to do a stroker motor when I go to a 6 bolt. What did the 2.4 crank cost?

2mchboost4u
11-25-2002, 08:22 PM
-- Yeah i havent really heard anything about the valve to piston clearance problem but what got me was the more stroke the 4g64 has...

-- I guess the 6mm higher deck height makes up for it.... oh well
thanks a lot guys

Fickle
06-07-2004, 09:21 AM
Here is my email to Eagle:


Question (Me): "What is the HP rating for the CRS5900MA3D?"


Answer (Eagle): "About 1000 wheel HP."


That seems a little far fetched. The SBC rods are rated at 1000hp with the bolt upgrade but these rods are thicker/larger than the 4G63 rod.


I wrote Eagle back and asked this:

" I see where a bolt upgrade takes the 5.7" SBC rod to a HP rating of 1000hp. But, the 4G63 rod isn't as big right? So, how can it withstand the same amount of stress? "


I'll post their response as soon as I receive it.... It's just too hard to believe that a $300 rod will take me into single digit ETs....

sleeper142
06-07-2004, 10:27 AM
I could be wrong, but I believe buschur was using eagle rods on his race car. I know of people making 400+ hp on stock 2g 7 bolt motors. And if you have ever seen those rods, you know what to pick your teeth with after eatin'.

PokeyTSI
06-07-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by cmeflibi
I got the eagle fords, but I wen't with the JE 9:1's. Am I going to have alot of problems with these pistons b/c I see everyone here uses 8.5:1 rosses? A guy on the first or second page said he had alot of knock over 15 psi with street gas. On RRE's website, they say you can run regular gas at higher boost.???

im confused

I had a bit of the same issue with that on a set of NT pistons that were in my 1G boosted Talon but I think that was probly from lack of tuning. We put the same motor in a laser and it pulled mid 12's on an 18G at 18psi. And it's still running fine. The higher compression ratio seems to be pretty good for daily driven too.... Just my .02......

Fickle
06-07-2004, 02:13 PM
Well, I talked to Buschur today.

They are using the Eagle rod in the tube car and the Conquest.

So, I'm sold on the Eagles.

I guess the "1000 wheel hp" comment from Eagle was right on par. ;)

sleeper142
06-07-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Fickle
Well, I talked to Buschur today.

They are using the Eagle rod in the tube car and the Conquest.

So, I'm sold on the Eagles.

I guess the "1000 wheel hp" comment from Eagle was right on par. ;)
Thats kind of humorous actually. Cause when I purchased my eagles a few years back they claimed a 550 ish whp limit with them... although I still find that hard to believe since people have safely put down that kinda power on stock blocks (6 bolts and evos)

Fickle
06-09-2004, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Fickle
Here is my email to Eagle:


Question (Me): "What is the HP rating for the CRS5900MA3D?"


Answer (Eagle): "About 1000 wheel HP."


That seems a little far fetched. The SBC rods are rated at 1000hp with the bolt upgrade but these rods are thicker/larger than the 4G63 rod.


I wrote Eagle back and asked this:

" I see where a bolt upgrade takes the 5.7" SBC rod to a HP rating of 1000hp. But, the 4G63 rod isn't as big right? So, how can it withstand the same amount of stress? "


I'll post their response as soon as I receive it.... It's just too hard to believe that a $300 rod will take me into single digit ETs....


Here is Eagle's response:

"The pistons used in a 4G63 (an any import) are far lighter than any small block Chevy piston. Plus, the power on a Mitsubishi is made through turbocharger boost and some nitrous usually. Small block Chevys tend to make their power with superchargers or all nitrous, which is much more stressful on connecting rods. The most HP we've actually had reported back to us from a Mitsubishi customer is 920 HP. But the rods were holding up fine at that power level. We hate to speculate much more than that, but People who are making that much power generally understand that they are on the ragged edge of what is known about the components they are using anyway. Suffice it to say, these rods are overkill for just about any practical street car use."

I'll take the $300 set of rods please. :D