Automatic Trannys???

[2001Z06]

I usually try to stay away from Automatic anythings since they seem to take away a lot of power, but lately i've been kind of curious about them.

I've never drove a automatic turbo dsm before and I don't really know much about them. I did notice that for the most part, they seem to be cheaper to buy then the manual dsm's. I know a lot of people want to convert theirs over to a manual.

Are they pretty strong trannys stock or do you need to upgrade them right away? How far can you go before you have to upgrade? Are there a lot of performance upgrades available for them? What's the fastest anyones gone with one?

thanks

[zola84]

the Turbo 2g Auto and Manual are the same. The thing that gives the manual an advantage over the automatic is 1st gear (if you keep it in drive).

Over time, I've learned the bits and tricks of my auto tranny and I can confidently say I can go just as fast as a manual trans. I've proven it in a couple races I've won. Have not done a 1/4 mile yet, waiting for my new tires to get used a little more before I go burn 'em.

Anyhow, go to vfaq.com , they have two guides on installing a Translab Shift Kit. Personally, I do not see the need of them, but a lot of auto trans people say they notice more aggressive shifting with their kit. In any case, I have in my plans to add this kit when my car reaches 100k (74k at the moment). Lets put this aside for now.

Change the tranny oil and filter every 10k miles. It's a process that takes a little bit longer than oil change, but well worth it in my opinion. This will help your tranny stay in shape. The 2g auto trannys should last 150k-200k with normal maintanance.

Anyhow, the gears go like L - 2 - D - N - R - P. Every time I race or have a civic near by, at a stop I shift to "L" and turn "O/D Off" . I give it heat up to 6000rpm and slide the stick to "2", keep pedal down to 6000rpm in 2nd and slide the stick again to "D". With overdrive off, it switches to 3rd. Give it heat... than turn the "o/d" back on so it can switch to 4th. I can gurantee you, manual or auto, if u do this... you are just as quick. Now most would argue this is bad for the tranny and it probably is, but from my personal experience I will disagree, as far as this specific tranny. I've done this for a long time and not one tranny problem. It still shifts like new. If you ask me, do it as much as you want. But when u stop, most drivers dont let their car cool down, this is a must for you. You stop, put the car in neutral for a min and than turn it off, its not only good for the turbo, but also for the auto tranny, since you give it more heat than normal this way.

Things to NEVER do are:
- Never DOWN SHIFT in motion (say D to 2 or 2 to L)
- Never Neutral Drop (D to N - careful.. it slides in easy, takes time getting used to)

But since this rare practice I do does do more harm than just using "D", I have planned the following for when I reach 100k miles: End Clutch Replacement and Translab Shift Kit (maybe $150 total ?)

Personally, I find manuals to be much more fun. But for daily city driving automatic is more convinient. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I dont see why people would change their auto to manual, its pointless.

[turbolover2]

The stock automatic trannies are not really that strong. There are claims that they can handle 350HP, but I think that is a high estimate. The end clutch kit and the valve body kit are a must for modified DSMs with ATs. Even stock cars would benfit from these kits. The VB kit improves the flow of the ATF, and fixes problem areas with shifting. It can also be used to stiffen shifts (but if you use the right spring, you can have normal shifts). The end clutch kit improves a weak OD system.


As far as going as fast as an MT, sure, no problem. And Level Ten (levelten.com) sells a rebuild kit that they claim can handle 600+ HP. So, you can definatley mod the hell out of an AT DSM. The fastest AT DSM as of now, is a 10.5, and there are some in the 11s, and a lot in the 12s. I hope to be in the 12s myself after my next round of modifications.


Swapping a manual tranny into an AT car is not worth the trouble or the money. For a little more than doing the swap, you can buy an MT car and not have to worry about doing all the little things that are associated with the swap.

For more info, check out www.at.dsm.org

[zola84]

i thought the stock at tranny could only handle up to 300hp ? oh well ;)

[2001Z06]

I wouldn't convert a manual over to an automatic, I would just buy an automatic if I wanted one. I just was wondering what the automatics are capable of because I know someone who is looking at one, but doesn't want a manual.

thanks.

[RippinGSX]

Originally posted by zola84


I can gurantee you, manual or auto, if u do this... you are just as quick.
Um, not, go over to the times page and take a look. Have you driven a stick to even compare it to your auto? doesn't sound like it ;) 250hp on the auto before it needs upgrades to hold the power.

[ippkiss]

Originally posted by zola84
the Turbo 2g Auto and Manual are the same. The thing that gives the manual an advantage over the automatic is 1st gear (if you keep it in drive).

Over time, I've learned the bits and tricks of my auto tranny and I can confidently say I can go just as fast as a manual trans. I've proven it in a couple races I've won. Have not done a 1/4 mile yet, waiting for my new tires to get used a little more before I go burn 'em.

Anyhow, go to vfaq.com , they have two guides on installing a Translab Shift Kit. Personally, I do not see the need of them, but a lot of auto trans people say they notice more aggressive shifting with their kit. In any case, I have in my plans to add this kit when my car reaches 100k (74k at the moment). Lets put this aside for now.

Change the tranny oil and filter every 10k miles. It's a process that takes a little bit longer than oil change, but well worth it in my opinion. This will help your tranny stay in shape. The 2g auto trannys should last 150k-200k with normal maintanance.

Anyhow, the gears go like L - 2 - D - N - R - P. Every time I race or have a civic near by, at a stop I shift to "L" and turn "O/D Off" . I give it heat up to 6000rpm and slide the stick to "2", keep pedal down to 6000rpm in 2nd and slide the stick again to "D". With overdrive off, it switches to 3rd. Give it heat... than turn the "o/d" back on so it can switch to 4th. I can gurantee you, manual or auto, if u do this... you are just as quick. Now most would argue this is bad for the tranny and it probably is, but from my personal experience I will disagree, as far as this specific tranny. I've done this for a long time and not one tranny problem. It still shifts like new. If you ask me, do it as much as you want. But when u stop, most drivers dont let their car cool down, this is a must for you. You stop, put the car in neutral for a min and than turn it off, its not only good for the turbo, but also for the auto tranny, since you give it more heat than normal this way.

Things to NEVER do are:
- Never DOWN SHIFT in motion (say D to 2 or 2 to L)
- Never Neutral Drop (D to N - careful.. it slides in easy, takes time getting used to)

But since this rare practice I do does do more harm than just using "D", I have planned the following for when I reach 100k miles: End Clutch Replacement and Translab Shift Kit (maybe $150 total ?)

Personally, I find manuals to be much more fun. But for daily city driving automatic is more convinient. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I dont see why people would change their auto to manual, its pointless.

Well, you kinda have the idea. If you want and a/t get one. there not that slow, but definatly do the shift kit/end clutch upgrade.

[TheObiJuan]

wont manually shifting the auto tranny kinda hurt it?
with a shift kit and end clutches the tranny still does not go all the way to redline on every shift like an auto, so the only way an auto can be faster is if it has more power.
what do you all think about our cams. should i switch to manual cams or keep mine. i heard that mine are good for low end power, which is what i want, but i dont want them to cause my motor to run out of breath on the topend....

i like my auto, i like my new shifter from bmp racing, and i say not all sports cars need to be manual!

[RippinGSX]

Originally posted by TheObiJuan
wont manually shifting the auto tranny kinda hurt it?
with a shift kit and end clutches the tranny still does not go all the way to redline on every shift like an auto
You mean like a manual right? :D

[fu98765]

How exactly is shifting "L-2-D-OD on" hurt the transmission. It feels to me like the transmission shifts the same as if you had it in D and stepped on the gas. I want to drive my car L-2-D "racing situation" but I'm affraid of damage that may result from this. How is it hard on the transmission? :dunno: Will a shift kit and end clutch lessen the damage?


Rob

[TheObiJuan]

the computer controls the transmission's shifts. if you force it to do something it doesnt want to then you are taking away from what the ecu wants to do.
if i am wrong please correct me. i want the most performance and best times out of my auto, but not at a cost of harming it.

[RochNY91TSI]

Originally posted by TheObiJuan
the computer controls the transmission's shifts. if you force it to do something it doesnt want to then you are taking away from what the ecu wants to do.
if i am wrong please correct me. i want the most performance and best times out of my auto, but not at a cost of harming it.

It's not going to kill the transmission by doing this. What will kill the tranny is if you never shift it, i.e. put it in low and highway drive it at redline. Manually shifting it is fine as long as you don't keep it in redline for too long.

[zola84]

well, on the side note, some manuals even recommend you do this type of manual shifting on an a/t trans from time to time or if you want more power. It's perfectly ok, but it might do more harm (note: I am saying this coz I wont want blame if something happens to your tranny), I just have never had a problem and never experienced any loss of power.

Manuals.. beware.. autos can woop ya ;) if shifting is done properly. (besides, you cant miss the gear... just be careful with D to N.. very BAD)

[fu98765]

Too many contradicting statements. What is right?:dunno:

I know I can beat some ass if I shift because I have do it before but stopped for fear of damage. An automatic tranny is expensive to rebuild ya no.::scholar:

Rob

[turbolover2]

There is no point in maunally shifting an AT DSM. They don't actually go into the next gear exactly when you move the shifter, it hesitates a little. I've found my car to be a couple of tenths faster when I let it shift itself. I have no problem running it to redline, it usually shifts around 7100 or 7200 at WOT.

But manually shifting won't hurt anything as long as you shift before redline. I've found that when manually shifting, you should move the shifter before you want it to shift (at WOT). In other words, if you want to redline it, move the shifter whn you see 6500 RPMs, and because of the delay, it will actually shift at redline.

[zola84]

Too many contradicting statements. What is right?

I know I can beat some ass if I shift because I have do it before but stopped for fear of damage. An automatic tranny is expensive to rebuild ya no.:

Basically, do it at your own risk. I do not find any danger in doing it and so do others it seems, but a lot would argue the opposite.

The reason I will do an end clutch replacement and new shift kit is not because my tranny is screwed, but so I can improve it and make it last longer.

About rebuild, ya its not exactly the cheapest thing, but that is why I say "it might do harm", I dont want the blame for any problems you get.

I disagree with Turbolover2, you cant max out each gear with keeping the car in Drive. Have not met an auto DSM that can do that yet, than again, there is mods out there, although expensive, that can accomplish that but no point of such mods for a street car. But if yours can do that, although I find it hard to believe, consider yourself a rare case coz thats pretty impressive (if its really the way it sounds).

I've pulled on a Tsi manual and when we stoped to exchange a couple laughes and info, he was suprised mine was auto and pulled so nice. He asked me what kind of mods I got, how did I pull on him, so I just told him how I shifted and he seemed fairly suprised. Dont get me wrong, I did not kill him, his front end was right by my tail.

Experiment a little and you'll get the right rythum of shifting in the auto.

p.s. it only might hesitate between low to 2nd, but boy it flys when maxing 2nd than 3rd. (o/d off is the magic for third)

[RippinGSX]

Originally posted by zola84

Manuals.. beware.. autos can woop ya ;) if shifting is done properly. (besides, you cant miss the gear... just be careful with D to N.. very BAD)
Maybe if the guy driving the 5 speed just learned how to drive a stick and the auto has about 100 more hp :rolleyes: :D

[scotthidley]

There is a auto fwd laser running low 11's (with nitrous), its pretty much a strip only car, but that should give you a good idea what they're capable of. Other than that autos are huge, about another 100 lbs on them over manuals. Auto's are also more consistent, which is good if you bracket race. Manual's are still funner to drive though.

[turbolover2]

Zola: My car really does shift at redline or slighlty above at WOT. That was on 16psi on a 16G (estimate of about 250-275 HP, not to the wheels). But it was a stock convertor, maybe it was slipping a little. But it does feel strong all the way up.

[jamesw670]

Manually upshifting an automatic won't hurt your transmission, but if you down shift like you can in a manual you will kill the transmission. They didn't put 1st and 2nd gear on the shifter for good looks... As far as is being faster it could be if your consistent. That is the problem with automatics they shift when they want to. You can also try leaving it in drive and using the power switch. It is supposed to shift differently. I never noticed one though. And pretty much no matter which way you look at it you need more power to compete with a good manual. Automatics just don't shift quick enough.

[ippkiss]

Originally posted by zola84




Basically, do it at your own risk. I do not find any danger in doing it and so do others it seems, but a lot would argue the opposite.

The reason I will do an end clutch replacement and new shift kit is not because my tranny is screwed, but so I can improve it and make it last longer.

About rebuild, ya its not exactly the cheapest thing, but that is why I say "it might do harm", I dont want the blame for any problems you get.

I disagree with Turbolover2, you cant max out each gear with keeping the car in Drive. Have not met an auto DSM that can do that yet, than again, there is mods out there, although expensive, that can accomplish that but no point of such mods for a street car. But if yours can do that, although I find it hard to believe, consider yourself a rare case coz thats pretty impressive (if its really the way it sounds).

I've pulled on a Tsi manual and when we stoped to exchange a couple laughes and info, he was suprised mine was auto and pulled so nice. He asked me what kind of mods I got, how did I pull on him, so I just told him how I shifted and he seemed fairly suprised. Dont get me wrong, I did not kill him, his front end was right by my tail.

Experiment a little and you'll get the right rythum of shifting in the auto.

p.s. it only might hesitate between low to 2nd, but boy it flys when maxing 2nd than 3rd. (o/d off is the magic for third)

I can't take this anymore. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOUR TALKING ABOUT. First off, even with a high stall t/c, shift kit and end clutch upgrade, a manual dsm with the same hp will be faster. Shifting your a/t dsm is not bad for it, but "not recomended" beacuse your taking control away from the computer that was designed to controll it (that would be the TCU). the transmission in our cars was designed with "fuzzylogic" and the more hp it sees, the higher it shifts. If you don't belive me, Nano has a vid of his car(in drive) shifting at 7600 rpms from 1-2, then somthing like 7300-7400 rpms from 2-3. Why dosen't the stock a/t shift at 7600 rpms? beacuse the t-25 isn't making any power up there. The mods are not expsensive, its 75$ for an end clutch up grade and 75$ for a shift kit. when I used to manuly shift my car, it would hesitate on each shift, so to shift at 7500 rpms, I would push the shifter forward at 6500 rpms.

[2001Z06]

thanks for the info!

[fu98765]

Seeings how downshifting is a bad thing I guess if you want to race from a roll you have to shift it into L at a stop and roll around in first until you and the guy who you're racing decide to hit it right? I'm also assuming that if you shift around 6500rpm you can get it to shift at redline. Mine currently shifts at 6500rpm and I'd like it to hold out to 7000rpm. Ippkis your post was helpful. I personally can't beat my friends manual GSX. He kicks my ass everytime. :o We race from a roll and he holds his car in 1st or 2nd and revs the engine to around the rpm that it is at around 30. Then he dumps the clutch on my ass and he is gone. I think I can put it in L and have the RPMs high enough to keep up with him now. Most people race from a roll here.:scholar: From a stop he roasts me and all other cars he has raced thus far. No sweat I got some secret mods in store for him. Hopefully I'll catch him off gaurd and beat his ass for once. Some guy on here has a low 12 sec 16G powered Automatic monster and it is what I want my car to be.

Rob

[RippinGSX]

Thanks for clarifying that manual is quicker, I was just about to say lets line em up ;)

[FastGSXauto]

I just want to clear up some things..

Automatics just don't shift quick enough.

that's bullshit.. an automatic with the shift kit will shift quicker than any manual, and we don't have to get off the gas to do it (boost says up the whole time). That is our only advantage.

Now for out disadvantages in order of most significant:
1. Can't slip the clutch, making lag worse from a stop
2. more spread out gear ratios
3. extra weight
4. slightly more drivetrain loss

Number 1 can be overcome to a degree with a torque converter or nitrous.

Number 2 there is nothing that can be done. We effectively have only 3 gears. If you go into overdrive, forget about it.

Number 3 about 100lbs more..

Number 4, nothing can be done, just make more HP.

From a roll, if you stomp the gas, the tranny will automatically downshift for you. It just takes a little longer to react than a downshift in a manual car.

Downshifting or upshifting in the auto is NOT bad for the tranny in any way. As long as you dont' overrev the engine, but the same applies to manuals.

Now if a manual raced an AT with the same HP engine... Assuming the AT could get off the line (had a torque converter), it would be a close race. I'd say the manual would win if he was a good driver, but the auto would win if the manual was average or worse. Once an AT is set up right, the launches can be awesome and very very consistent. I like wasting mustangs while drinking a 40 from my right hand.

[RippinGSX]

Originally posted by FastGSXauto
I like wasting mustangs while drinking a 40 from my right hand. Um, Ok, thats smart :rolleyes:

[fu98765]

With all of those mods you can only get a 13.9.:eeek: Damn I'm kinda worried now about the future performance capability of my auto. Please tell me that most of those mods were not on your car when you set that time. I mean you have 550's, ported 16G, nitrous, and tons of other stuff. WTF?:confused: A 12.9 quarter mile is a lot more reasonable with the mods you have. I also must agree with you about the downshifting stuff. If you go into 2nd from drive w/ OD off at around 30mph it shouldn't do anything bad. I mean going from D to L at like 70mph will probably.............well it will be ugly at best.

:puke: <==== auto tranny from a 70mph drop into L.


Rob

[FastGSXauto]

yeah that time was last year.. with pump gas, PVC IC piping, and i could not get off the line (2.2 60' time). This year i'm hoping for 12's.. i now have a decent FMIC. I want 12's on pump gas, and only using the nitrous to get out of the hole. It turns off automatically when i reach 15psi.

[fu98765]

Phew! :o Glad to hear that your car is much more capable. I must support and wish my automatic brotheren well.

Rob

[All4Smoking]

Originally posted by TheObiJuan
the computer controls the transmission's shifts. if you force it to do something it doesnt want to then you are taking away from what the ecu wants to do.
if i am wrong please correct me.

you are wrong. The bottom line is that it is actually better for the transmission if you mani shift it. It helps the trans by doubling the oil pressure in the trans. That is a good thing.


IMO~ manuals are faster because you can not properlly launch an automatic w/o a stall converter which sucks for the street. The other problem with autos is that if you just keep it in drive from the stop it will not rev as high as you want it to, and if you mani shift there is a delay which makes it feel slushy and not as crisp as a manual. Shift kits help make the shifts crisper and hold the r's out longer, which helps a whole lot.

[BoostedTSi]

Automatics are always being under estimated. I ran a 14.4 with a 2.2 60'. I only had I/C piping, BOV, and 3" exhaust (no boost controller and no a/t mods!). Check out www.at.dsm.org.

[blackice]

Say if I was gonna shift it from L to 2 To D.....is it okay to keep the petal floored..or should i lift it every time i shift??

[RochNY91TSI]

Keep it floored, that's the advantage of autos :D

"Never lift to shift"

[FastGSXauto]

you are wrong. The bottom line is that it is actually better for the transmission if you mani shift it. It helps the trans by doubling the oil pressure in the trans. That is a good thing.

That is the biggest pile of crud i have ever heard. The oil pressure defenitely does not increase when you manually shift it. The oil pressure is dependent on throttle position.

[1997GS-T]

The following site hasn't been updated since 1999, but the figures are there:

http://www.heckconsulting.com/dsm/drag.html

An auto is the Fastest Car powered by a 4G63 at 8.126, while an auto is second Fastest DSM at 9.188.

[fu98765]

I tried that manual shift of gears in my automatic GSX tonight and man it worked like a charm.;) I pushed the shift lever forward at 6000rpm and it shifted right at 7000rpm. I was very please. I kept up with an LT1 Z28. I only lost ground to his door. This was a very helpful thread for me. I think they need to make an Automatic talk wing on this server. I like this server's forum style better than the yahoo at-dsm forum.


Rob:rockon:

[TheObiJuan]

I agree, where is Ted when you need him?
I want more out of auto's than just conversions to manual's. i'm going to put mine to the test, wish me luck, i will break a lot of stuff.

[zola84]

lol.. now now... we dont want stuff flying off :)

[ippkiss]

Originally posted by 1997GS-T
The following site hasn't been updated since 1999, but the figures are there:

http://www.heckconsulting.com/dsm/drag.html

An auto is the Fastest Car powered by a 4G63 at 8.126, while an auto is second Fastest DSM at 9.188.

What I can't figure out is why is rau's car listed as a/t? was it an auto at one time and then he converted it? beacuse it sure in the hell isn't a/t any more.

[fonduumaster]

It seem to me that the a/t dsm site hasnt been updated for a long time, I would like to learn more about beefing up the silky smooth auto, so I can show the 5 speeds that auto arent junk. I know some good links now, but I havnt really talked to anyone who has these goodies installed. How hard are these installations? How good do they really work?

[TheObiJuan]

no kidding. i feel like a red headed step child, unwanted here.
everyone wants manuals, has manuals, or wants to convert to manuals. :mad:

i would like some more activity on the at dsm site, or just have an active forum for us here. that would be nice.:D

[RochNY91TSI]

I'd like to throw in a vote for an A/T section. Seems there isn't any readily available information specific to a/t's here. Something like a sticky thread that contains all of the a/t threads so the info is consolidated into one place would be kinda nice...

[OmarGSX]

I agree with RochNY91TSI. I think it would be cool if we had an A/T section

[loreak]

You really dont need an upgraded TC. I pull 2.0 60 foot times with my mods and someone mentioned earlier about a low 12 second 16g a/t. That is 97tsiawd (jon), he has recently upgraded to the FP Green and he is still on his stock TC and pulled 1.6 60 foot with a best of 12.02 with his big 16g and he has just the shift kit and end clutch.

The biggest difference ive seen for launching was exhaust, you could brake torque all u wanted on stock exhaust and it would not build boost, but once i got full exhaust i build full boost in a matter of 1-2 seconds and it hauls ass off the line.

As for manu shifting if your holding power past where its shifting then yeah definately manu shift but for t25 guys it already shifts too high. Once you get the shift kit there is a lot lower delay when you click it to the next gear, its almost instantaneous so its more like shifting a manu.

My car shifts at 7000-7200 in first gear which is too high for the t25, it really loses a LOT of power at 6500 and i wish i could have it shift there i think i could gain a few tenths in the 1-2 shift and 2-3 if it shifted lower.

[1997GS-T]

I have to agree withe the above comments. There is not much infor regarding Auto out there. Let's start it here.

[loreak]

I think an a/t section would kick much ass. I dont even bother going to at.dsm because theres like 5 sentences of info and its all from 7 years ago. This is THE site and if we had a section on it for a/t's it would be very helpful.

[turbolover2]

I vote for an AT section.

[TheObiJuan]

there is our houston dsm section that we post on. it is an endless ongoing thread that the mods have allowed us to have. so long as we do not do anything that breaks the rules. we police ourselves, so no problem there. we can just keep this as an active thread. keep posting here and let the pages build. if the mods think this should turn into its own forum then so be it.....:D

i wonder at what rpm is the stock tc allowing the guy with the green to take off at, i would rather not have to spend the money if not necessary.those with tc's speak up.....

[LaNg Jii]

I also vote for an AT section.

I am also wondering why the AT site hasn't been updated.
I think Vineet Singh (one of our moderators) run that site. I know he is pretty busy considering that he has built a twin 4g63 DSM.
I also cant LOGIN to the at.dsm webpages anymore. I cant update my page. Anyone else have this problem?

It would be great to have an AT section. The NT guys got one. Im pretty sure there are alot of ATs here. We just need to unite.:D

[fu98765]

I vote for an a/t section.:rockon:



:hail: ============> A/T Forum on DSMtalk.com



Rob

[InvaderGST]

Yes, yes. DSM Automatics have very little info online. In my opinion in a drag race in a quarter mile an automatic will have more advantage. Anyways, the only thing I have read to be more beneficial for the automatics is a shift kit, end clutch kit, and high stall torque converter. I have been recently told to check out a Quaife Front Differential for a FWD automatic. Anyone have this or tried it? Also an aftermarket tranny cooler helps also. I also have checked out Level Ten. They seem to make good tranny upgrades for DSM's, but the prices seem crazy. Anyone ever buy anything from them?

[TSITALONGUY03]

Originally posted by zola84

Manuals.. beware.. autos can woop ya ;) if shifting is done properly. (besides, you cant miss the gear... just be careful with D to N.. very BAD)

hold up, this is a stupid question by me, butt uhhh, are you saying that going from D to N is bad in general or if your pounding the gas and accidently put it in N its a bad thing, well obviously its bad to do that.... and as for downshifting, i do it allll the time, had no problems so far, and also as for changing the tranny fluid, how long does this usually take?

[jamesw670]

Originally posted by InvaderGST
In my opinion in a drag race in a quarter mile an automatic will have more advantage.

Yes, a/t have some advantages in drag racing. less likely to snap the axles and you can just hold the throttle down and never let off. Lots of drag racers prefer automatics. and you should change your trans fluid and filter every 30,000 to 35,000 miles. That will help your trans last longer.

[All4Smoking]

Originally posted by FastGSXauto


That is the biggest pile of crud i have ever heard. The oil pressure defenitely does not increase when you manually shift it. The oil pressure is dependent on throttle position.


I am posative i am correct. check your resources.

[FastGSXauto]

Where are you getting your info from?

[All4Smoking]

my friend

[FastGSXauto]

well i hate to say this, but he's wrong.

[All4Smoking]

thats fine, i might be wrong, but i'll go ask him tomorow just for fun. I'll probally have to go down to his work, his own trans rebuilding shop that him and his dad have owned for 38 years.

[ippkiss]

Originally posted by All4Smoking
thats fine, i might be wrong, but i'll go ask him tomorow just for fun. I'll probally have to go down to his work, his own trans rebuilding shop that him and his dad have owned for 38 years.

Well, I would never let him touch my car if he thinks that. I might be the way your saying for other cars, but it's based on throttel positon in a dsm, I'm 110% sure of it. I just don't think there are any advantages to manualy shifting an a/t dsm. its not like the t-tosmall is making any power above 6500 rpms.

[RyanTalon]

I've spent the last few weeks dealing with a shifting problem.
The guy who made the Translab shiftkit was helping me.
I can assure you the pressure remains constant whether manually shifting the tranny or not.

It also remains constant whether 10% throttle or 100% throttle.

All of this was verified with a tranny pressure guage mounted while driving monitoring the 1-2 and 2-3 shift.

Yes, my car runs 12's no nitrous just a turbo.

[RippinGSX]

Originally posted by RyanTalon


Yes, my car runs 12's no nitrous just a turbo.
List your mods and time slip please :D

[jamesw670]

Hey ryan talon i think that there is some confusion going on here. i think that fastGSXauto is talking about the oil pressure for the engine, which does change based on throttle possition and rpm. the TRANSMISSION oil pressure should remain pretty constant. two completely different things.

[zola84]

to answer TSITALONGUY03,

D to N is ok of course as long as car is not in motion. Because if you are moving into 3rd gear (D) with overdrive off/on.. and accidently slip it into N, your car will jump waaaay above the rpm limit. Thats bad... it's how you break engines. I have to go right now so I dont have time to explain mechanically what happens... but I'm sure its explained several times in this forum if you do a search.

as for downshifting, its the same principal, if you are at high rpm, say in the auto... 3000/4000 rpm and downshift.. watch your rpm arrow go right as the car's back jumps and front stops. Obviously, not good.. I downshift only at highest 1000rpm... but I try to avoid it any time I can coz you can still feel its not quite right. I never go from 2nd to 1st tho, unless I'm at a complete stop. If you dont know how to shift, I say do not shift at all, the a/t dsm still goes fast.

I notice quite an advantage when manual shifting.. especially 2nd gear. Maybe its my setup. When I manual shift my mother's 99 toyota camry tho, I notice no difference at all, so draw your own conclusions.

[nano]

I'd love an A/T section here. The A/T digest isn't that informative most of the time and it can be a mess sometimes. I'd much rather use a message forum. A/Ts can be fast and reliable. And mine actually shifts right at redline even with nitrous. I'm really curious as to how 97tsiAWD car is going. I'm very curious as to how he's Green setup is working out. My buddy with a green that ran a 11.6 had a best 60ft time of 1.68. My best was a 1.70. I'm sure I could of done better but I was spinning up to 30mph. Here's a bid of my A/T kicking butt..

http://www.brokezr.8k.com/images/movies/june10/1213n.WMV

And this is me launching next to my buddys 12sec camaro.

http://www.brokezr.8k.com/images/movies/saturday/greggvsnano2.WMV

[TheObiJuan]

sweet ride nano.

what is your opinion of the transgo shift kit, a local shop will intall it for 150 including the shift kit. but if i bring a dunrite one that they have never heard of before then they want 120 plus the shift kit.

sounds kinda like the dunrite is better quality???

[loreak]

I was under the assumption that the translab shift kit was sold by dunrite. Unless im misreading your post u make it sound like they quoted 150 for the translab including it and 120 plus the dunrite, but it hought they are the same thing.

[zola84]

it is the same company :) they make the shift kits.

[zola84]

oh wait, he said transGo.. not translab.. :)

TransGo are mostly for domestic cars, arent they ? Or thats what I thought. I'd be interested in more info about TransGo's kits.

[loreak]

i assumed he misspelled it since the guy before said translab, i guess not =D

[TheObiJuan]

yeah it is a trans go shift kit. it is made for our cars for firmer shifts and stronger internals... but he gets them for like 25-30 dollars.....should i do it?

[loreak]

Yeah give it a shot thats a really good price. All they are is a set of different springs and its from a large company that makes shift kits for alot of cars Im sure they work just fine. If you dont I will =D

[tsixr]

anybody know of any reputable shops in the new jersey area that is capable of installing a shift and clutch end plate kit onto my 97 tsi awd? thanks.

[Fuse9Watt]

Come' on mods! lets get an A/T section going on this here board!

:D

[fu98765]

I've been looking for a company who will install it here is Kansas. Hopefully a local shop can take care of it.


Rob

[TheObiJuan]

i think that to get our own section we would need more post, look at the houston dsm thread, it has 1200 or so posts, and it is almost going to become its own section (south) in a forum...

we need to post more, we need to get more people involved, and we need to have better technical data. i wanna see timeslops that prove manually shifting is better, or worse. also, what shift kit does what, and what torque converter gives you the best performance. get technical and this thread will grow...

remember we are the red headed step child...

[Fuse9Watt]

I agree with ya about the techinical data. My tranny is still completely stock so not only would such data be really usefull to me when i comes time to do some work on this baby, but i could also be a test subject when that time comes around.

As you can guess from my current mods the next set of performance mods were probably gonna be 550 or greater injectors/S-AFC or DSMLink/Big T28/ and anything else that those involove. But i'm begining to wonder if maybe i'm allready pushing my stock AT tranny, yet i have no way to know whats tried and proven about our trannys?

Got a question though, does the 350hp limit INCLUDE tranny work, or is that stock? and if that includes the tranny work, then what is the real limit of stock. i think someone said 250hp?


BTW guys, ever tried building some boost at about 20 miles an hour, and then pulse the peddal at about 1 sec - 2sec intervals, the BOV blows off each time you let up! Just thought i'd share that, found it out last night at the local lot and attracted quite a bit of attention, not too mention revin' in neutral kicks the BOV off in our autos! :cool: :D

[fu98765]

Yo true dat.:cool: But I'm thinking that having an automatic only forum is pretty much a no brainer.

[TheObiJuan]

you would think that, however like i said we are the red headed step child

[BoostedTSi]

Hey, I think that we should all get together and really try to get our own section. We could take a poll or something. I think that there is enough of us out there. If the Non Turbos get their own section why shouldn't we get one!

[zola84]

i've head all kinds of numbers in terms of HP of what the stock tranny can hold... 250, 300, 350... I wonder which is true as well.

About our own section... thats a great idea.

[loreak]

and also are we talking crank or wheel horsepower cuz 350 at the crank and 350 at the wheels is a good diff

[FastGSXauto]

stop talking about specific numbers. every car is different. Just get the shift kit, and not worry about it. $75.

[Jehu]

I don't have hard numbers for you, but trust me when I say that a shift kit is worth doing. My shifts used to have a little flare, and the car's acceleration would drop off while shifting. With the shiftkit, end clutch, BM trickshift and DSMlink keeping timing up between shifts, my car actually shoots forward at each shift. I get thrown back everytime the car shifts. It like going from granny shifting to power shifting a manual tranny.

Oh, and zola84, if you go from D to N, you'll just run up to the rev limiter, it's no big deal. If you go from D to 2 at 100mph though, THAT would be a problem. Then you'd overrev the engine, like shifting from 3 to 2 instead of 4.

[TheObiJuan]

damn it i am still torn between trying the transgo shift kit or the real one that everyone does. it is mostly a price difference.
the dunrite one works and is proven.

[Jehu]

I think one of the guys on the at digest have the transgo kit. Try searching about it. I do know however that the shiftkit does not physically consist of too many components at all. Just some springs and Aurum balls. So it's really not that hard to MAKE a shift kit. If your research does not yield enough info on how good the transgo kit is, I'd play it safe and just go with the translab. It's been proven on many ATs and most people really like it. It's no fun trying to redo a shiftkit.

[loreak]

actually u can put it into 2 going 150 if u want or L going 100 it wont shift, theres a maximum speed that you can be going before it will not shift down into that gear. try it do like 60 and throw it down to L it wont do anything, and keep slowing down it will drop in once u get to like 25

[njriceboy]

Check out what I found from someone who replied to my post the other day. Shave .6 off your 1/4 mile with an AT tranny ONLY.

:P :P :P

http://www.geocities.com/rbsounddesigns//finaldrivemod.html

[zola84]

will this really be that big of an improvement ?

[njriceboy]

.6 isn't good enough for you? not bad for a 100 dollar mod.

you lose 6% fuel economy and you speedo is off by 3 - 6mph (ratios) but that is said to be fixable if you have the right tools.

i'm just restating what I have read.

[zola84]

said to be fixable if you have the right tools ? Could you please tell me more about that ? Coz this mod sounds really nice and its something I'll probably end up doing.

[Jehu]

Note, I think this applies only to the NT ATs.

[njriceboy]

Jehu: i'm not sure if its for Turbos, but dont make that assumption yet.

zola84: this the forum from 2gnt.com someone sent me (http://www.2gnt.com/dcforum/DCForumID13/5495.html)

it explains a few things and some people takes on it
i'm looking into doing it next month once do some research on it

enjoy!

[1997GS-T]

I have a stock auto tranny with the below mods. Can you give me a idea of what mods I can do to the tranny, what parts, where do I get the parts from and the prices.

Thanks, Dan

[zola84]

alrighty, so how many teeth do the turbo tranny ones have ? NT is 47/49 (drive/driven) whats the turbo, anyone know ? :)

[TheObiJuan]

good question. i will ask a local tranny shop about this. the only problem that i see with doing this is loosing what little top end we have. also, i dont like the whole speedo off thing. btw, apexi makes a great rev/speed meter that also can do other things...kinda like a gtech. and it is digital.


dan, welcome.
go to dunrite. get their shift kit, and their end clutches. should be about 120 a piece. your ass hitting the back seat between shifts will thank you. you will not regret it.

http://www.dunrite-converters.com/

[1997GS-T]

TheObiJuan, I checked the site out. What exact parts am I looking for? Do I have to contact them direct or can you give me more info.

Thanks. Dan

[zola84]

yeah, just call them, they'll know what you need.

[DSMeclipseGS]

Hy guys. I'm a NT auto and sorry..... the final drive mod is only for the nonturbo guys. It uses the Stratus gears. Well I guess I'll have the best of both worlds.... final drive mod and stage 2 turbo kit.

This mod has been popular over at 2gnt.com discussion boards. Any auto NTers go check it out.

[1997GS-T]

Guys, lets keep pushing for a Auto Site.

[TheObiJuan]

bump

i agree. however it would be nice if the auto forum could be more geared toward the turbo auto dsm's....
just a suggestion.
we need more people posting here to get any of the admin's to even look. and by posting, i dont mean doing it to get your post count higher. who cares anyways.

come on. lets talk about some technical stuff here

1.high stall tc launches vs regular tc launches (60' diff.) worth the $$

2.manual shifting vs leaving it in drive (et differences)

3.best oil cooler, diff oil cooler locations???

4.beefed up tranny's. when is it necessary??

5.shifter mods, replacement.

6.top end??

7.autox with an auto?

come on....lets get some discussions going.

[RochNY91TSI]

come on. lets talk about some technical stuff here

Agreed:

3.best oil cooler, diff oil cooler locations???

I like the looks of (though I can't speak for actions of as it's sitting in my closet) the FLEX-A-LITE Transmission Fluid Cooler with a 300 CFM Spal fan attached to it. It's pretty large in size and has a lot of fins to dissapate heat, the fan attached to it should work nicely to spread air over the entire surface of it.

Here's a pic:

http://members.cox.net/eagletalonawd/trannycooler.jpg

(picture borrowed from the person I bought the fan from {also happens to be a moderator here})

I'm not sure where I'm going to mount it yet though as I have a spoolinup front mount coming also... When I get everything together with the FMIC, I'll figure something for the tranny cooler and post results here.

Any suggestions until then?

-Scott

[DSMeclipseGS]

Yeah I'm all for the Auto section!!!!!

[1997GS-T]

Back to my original question for upgrading my Auto Tranny, I have been told I need the shift kit and the end Kit. Is there anything else besides Dunrite? I have contacted them many times with out a response.

Dan

[TheObiJuan]

keep trying. have you tried calling yet? trust me. it is defff. worth it. dunrite is just the best for shift kits and end clutches dont give up

[TheObiJuan]

okay, 1.8 guys have a sub-forum. we need one now. lets get pushing...

[1997GS-T]

I will take your word for it. I will keep trying. Let's keeping the pressure on for an A/T site.

[FastGSXauto]

I finally hit 12's last night at the track.

Best ET:
R/T : .551
60' : 1.784
330 : 5.284
1/8 : 8.255
MPH : 82.86
1000 : 10.802
1/4 : 12.994
MPH : 100.41

Best MPH run:
R/T : .474
60' : 1.897
330 : 5.406
1/8 : 8.359
MPH : 83.26
1000 : 10.908
1/4 : 13.062
MPH : 104.31

Both these runs had crazy knock and thus my timing was pulled back to 11 and sometimes down to 9 for the whole run.

[doug]

Congrats on the 12s!

I also would like to see an A/T Forum-- besides just posting that in this thread, what else should we be doing to nag the moderators or whoever about it?

[doug]

Originally posted by TheObiJuan
come on. lets talk about some technical stuff here


2.manual shifting vs leaving it in drive (et differences)



The one and only time I've been to the track (and this was still with the stock UICP and 2G BOV-- good riddance!), I got slightly better times (one or two tenths) shifting manually. With the Dejon UICP and TurboXS BOV, I'm wondering if manual shifting would make more difference, or less...

[1997GS-T]

FastGSXauto,

Congrats. Something What I am aiming for. I am yet to track test mine. What mods do you have? Did you manual shift?

Dsn

[DSMeclipseGS]

Does anyone know the owner's email address? Isn't it WhoaTed? Soemone see if they can get in touch with him. I think this would be the best additon this board needs. Plus I'm tired of the 5-speeds picking on me :( ....... LOL

[FastGSXauto]

my mods are on my webpage.. no i never manually shift. Though i will try it next time I'm at the track. My 1st to 2nd gear shift sometimes gets up to 7400RPM when shifted automatically. That's when I know i'm making good power. The 2-3 shift is waaay early, around 6500RPM. I think i might benefit from manually dragging out 2nd a little longer, that way 3rd can start at a higher RPM.

[TheObiJuan]

yeah, the owner is ted. he is pretty cool and will take it into consideration. however his current hosting package is pretty much maxed out and with threads like the ue, and the loung being so damn popular, we dont have much of a chance having our own forum. basically, no resources left.

[1997GS-T]

TheObiJuan, I finally got on to Dunrite regarding the Shift Kit and the end clutch kit. They told me they no longer sell the kit as the person they get them from doesn't deliver frequently. Any other suggestions of where to get one or what to do next. I need more power to the wheels.

Dan

[ippkiss]

Originally posted by FastGSXauto
I finally hit 12's last night at the track.

Best ET:
R/T : .551
60' : 1.784
330 : 5.284
1/8 : 8.255
MPH : 82.86
1000 : 10.802
1/4 : 12.994
MPH : 100.41

Best MPH run:
R/T : .474
60' : 1.897
330 : 5.406
1/8 : 8.359
MPH : 83.26
1000 : 10.908
1/4 : 13.062
MPH : 104.31

Both these runs had crazy knock and thus my timing was pulled back to 11 and sometimes down to 9 for the whole run.

I went to your site, and I couldn't see a high stall t/c listed anywhere. those are some damm good times on the stock T/C, what does yours stall at? mine usualy will go up to 3000, but the other night I got it to go to 3200 and I started to pull through the brakes. Oh and that was a damm good time, gives me hope for running 12.9's on the big 28 i've been dreaming about.

[TheObiJuan]

go with trans go. a local shop offered to isntall it for 120 with purchase price. it will not be the same as the dunrite kit but will still replace old parts. give you stronger, firmer kits, and overall is better than stock.

3200 on stock TC, DAMN :eek:

[1997GS-T]

TheObiJuan, as I live in the Philippines can you give me info on wherew to find one? Is the Shift Kit the Translab or Transgo?

Thanks, Dan

[TheObiJuan]

Originally posted by 1997GS-T
TheObiJuan, as I live in the Philippines can you give me info on wherew to find one? Is the Shift Kit the Translab or Transgo?

Thanks, Dan

damn, shipping is gonna suck for you.
dunrite made the translab shift kit. but not anymore from what i read above. the transgo is made by another company. cant remember which one. go back a few pages to where i posted it. think it was page 2.

the end clutches are still made by them though.
as for where to order them, the only place is through dunrite. all of the other supplier like rre, extreme, busher, dont give a fuck about us.

remember the guy in last place is always in front of you :rolleyes:

i wish there was more support for us.

[loreak]

keep tuning fastgsxauto, you should be able to get 110+ mph traps and very low 12's with that if you can get it all tuned up. btw did u use race gas or pump gas

[doug]

Originally posted by TheObiJuan


the end clutches are still made by them though.

Are you sure about this? I thought the end clutches were made by Alto. I also thought the TransLab kit was actually made by TransLab, but I'm not so sure about that...

[1997GS-T]

doug, do you know where or how I can get in contact with Translab / Alto. I contacted Level Ten and got the following reply. What do you guy suggest? Fistly go with part 1 or the whole lot.

Here is what i think you will need for a bulletproof transmission
system that is capable of handling up to 3 times the factory power. It will consist of a pts kit ($485-awd- or $452 fwd) and that will include our pts clutches, pts heat treated steels, pte bands, all seals, gaskets, filters, o-rings...
The other thing that is needed for the CLAMPING POWER is the pts hydrosystem in which you will ship me your valve body and I modify to make the transmission not slip in between shifts. It will also make it last longer and run cooler. (pts hydrosysetm upgrade $698) takes 1-2 business days.
Finally you will need a pts torque converter upgrade that will get rid of all the lag and the hesitation off the start and take off
anywhere from 1/2-1 second off 1/4 mile times with these combinations and simply the stall speed will match the new power band of the motor better. (pts torque converter upgrade $498) takes 2-3 business days.

It all seems very expensive. Comments????


Dan

[FastGSXauto]

I used a mix, about 6 gallons of 115 race gas with 3 gallons of 93 pump.

There is something wrong with my setup though. I'm getting knock even at 15psi on pump gas. Mike Huml (www.slowboyracing.com) thinks my timing marks weren't lined up 100%. We're going to check it out soon.

[FastGSXauto]

BTW, I weighed my car, and it weighs 3180lbs without me in it. So my runs were done at about 3330lbs. This puts me at about 300hp to the wheels according to the 1/4 mile calculator. I also put in the 1/8th mile time and mph, and it estimated my 0-60 at 4.3 seconds.

On one of my runs, I beat a fairly modded supra TT. It was a very nice car. I spoke with the kid that owned it and it had turbo back exhaust, a huge front mount IC, IC piping, intake, and 20psi boost. I think I ran a 13.15 and he ran a 13.19 or something like that. He was pretty impressed with how I came out of the hole. I jumped probably 3 car lengths immediately, and he played catch up the whole way. He trapped about 7mph higher than me, so he was about to blow by me had the race continued.

[BoostedAT]

You can get in touch with Charles @ http://www.plymouthlaser.com/ He used to sell the Alto end clutches. Or you can go and find a supplier at http://www.altousa.com/

He was having a hard time getting a hold of the Translab shift kit but he might have 1 or 2 left. Last I heard, it didn't come with a BSOD (Black Spring of Death) He also plans on testing the Transgo kit as well to do a comparison.

[doug]

Yeah, what he said. :) That's exactly what I was gonna tell you. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be able to order directly from Alto-- at least that's what I remember it saying on their web site. My brother-in-law runs a speed shop in GA-- I'll talk him up to see if he'll contact Alto to see about becoming a distributor. Chances aren't that good, though, but I'll ask.

Level 10, from what I hear, makes some really good stuff, but the prices are beyond outrageous. If you can afford it, you won't be disappointed, just judging by comments I've read/heard from the guys that have it.

[1997GS-T]

I have been in contact with Charles. He has the shift kits on the way but no end clutchs but can put an order through. Thanks BoostedAT for the link.

Any of you out there with this mod? What is the performance like? Are you getting more Hp to the wheels?

Dan

[ippkiss]

So basicly I finaly get enough money to get the a/t modds, and the companys have quit making them? that freaking sucks. I might just have to go with level ten, beacuse I want shifts that but your ass in the back seat. I did a run with my pocket logger last night, and my 0-60 was a weak ass 7.62 sec. I'm in need of a new turbo prety bad, the t-25 sucks ass. you guys think I should go new turbo before high stall t/c?

[turbotalon95]

Originally posted by ippkiss
So basicly I finaly get enough money to get the a/t modds, and the companys have quit making them? that freaking sucks. I might just have to go with level ten, beacuse I want shifts that but your ass in the back seat. I did a run with my pocket logger last night, and my 0-60 was a weak ass 7.62 sec. I'm in need of a new turbo prety bad, the t-25 sucks ass. you guys think I should go new turbo before high stall t/c?

I say that it all depends on what size turbo you are gonna get. If you want say a 16G then get the turbo first. If you want to get a laggy turbo like a Super 20G, you might want to get the torque converter first.

[zola84]

well, where could we get a better TC that is not as expensive as level 10 ?

As for the TransGo, is anyone planning on going with this setup now ? We dont have any info on it and I'm curious as to how it would work.

I'm getting an fpBig28 probably next year (winter or spring) and I'm curious as to what kind of TC I should go for... I'm not what you would call an expert when it comes to an a/t tranny.

Also, end clutches... bah... gawd dang dunrite.

[doug]

For end clutches, check out the Alto web site (http://www.altousa.com) to find a distributor. All I could find when I looked were ones in Alabama, though. It's one of those where you have to check state by state, and I only had time to check 6 or 7.

[casper]

can you belive i almost sold my baby because the auto is so unheard of? always has been looked at as such a joke? i thank you good auto people, i feel so much better about my car. i now am proud of my auto

[zola84]

when i click on IL i get page not found, great, just my luck, hehe.

About being proud to be an auto, well... the fastest DSM is auto. :D Check dsmTimes on main page.

[BoostedAT]

With an FPBig28, you could probably get away with the stock torque converter. I believe Jon Sarker had this setup with supporting mods and did see 12s, correct me if I'm wrong Jon.

As for torque converter choices, you can contact Tony at Dunrite or Joe at Protorque. If you have a drag car and money then Precision Industries will be releasing their 9.5" Billet torque converter soon. Mike at Spoolin Up would probably have more information on that.

That fastest DSM auto doesn't count but Russ Coxe's sure does. He's running with a protorque.

[InvaderGST]

Anybody with a 2G automatic that did a 1G 6 bolt motor swap? I have an automatic 95. Totally modified tranny with Level 10 PTS kit, Translab shift kit, Level 10 high stall TC, etc. ANyways I just got a 1G Race motor in and all the diagrams online show the swap for a manual. Sure no problem, but my car is an automatic and the flexplate does not match up perfectly. Just slightly off. Anybody out there sell aftermarket flexplate for an automatic or anybody on this automatic forum done a 1G swap in there 2G automatic? If so what did you do about the flexplate compatibility problem?

[InvaderGST]

These are to answer all the posts I read about the Translab kit not being made anymore and about Dunrite. Dunrite never ever replies to emails. I guess they make too much money to accept new customers. Anyways they do not make the kit. They were one of hte only authroized dealers. Anyways, when I called them they said they were backordered. I needed one ASAP as my whole tranny was getting redone with every mod you can possibly do to it. Anyways, somebody helped me out and showed me a place to get it at wholesale. Cost $47. Shipped to my door it came to like $52. And I will give the link to everyone one here as Dunrite does not deserve to make money when they cannot answer emails and when you can only get a lady to pick up the phone who doesn't know anything technical. This place is a wholsale company, but they will sell to individuals. You have to search under Mitsubishi and then valvbody upgrade to find it. They have both Transgo and Translab. Plus they have only a bunch of locations so they'll have it somewhere. I jsut got mine 2 weeks ago. Here it is: www.aceomaticrecon.com

[zola84]

hey thanks man... I think I'm gonna love you :D ... if they sell them to individuals and that cheap, they're gonna get some orders soon.. :)

[loreak]

jon did a 12.02 with a 1.68 60 foot on stock TC with a big 16g, hes now running a fp green and he told me he needs to upgrade his TC he can only build 5-7psi on the line.

[1997GS-T]

Regarding the Translab Shift Kit and an Alto End Clutch kit, Charles at www. plymouthlaser.com has the two in regularly. Contact him direct. He is very easy to deal with.

[JaJay721]

Originally posted by ippkiss
I did a run with my pocket logger last night, and my 0-60 was a weak ass 7.62 sec. I'm in need of a new turbo prety bad, the t-25 sucks ass. you guys think I should go new turbo before high stall t/c?

I think you need more than a turbo. A stock auto should be able to do 0 - 60 in about 7 seconds. Not 7.6 sec. Try letting the engine shift itself if you were not letting it previously and see what results you receive.

[ippkiss]

Originally posted by JaJay721


I think you need more than a turbo. A stock auto should be able to do 0 - 60 in about 7 seconds. Not 7.6 sec. Try letting the engine shift itself if you were not letting it previously and see what results you receive.

Well, I'm not stock but the proablem is that I'm at 4800 ft, and my car has 106,000 mi. and the compressor blades on my turbo look like some one ran with out a filter for a while. I need a whole shit load more than just a new turbo, but I was letting the car shift its self. What I realy need is about 10,000$ so I can do all the shit I want to it(2.4l stroker motor with 9:1 comp, high stall t/c, bullet proof trany, big 28, dsm link, 625's, and a 100 shot of n20 for "just in case").

[LaNg Jii]

Originally posted by InvaderGST
These are to answer all the posts I read about the Translab kit not being made anymore and about Dunrite. Dunrite never ever replies to emails. I guess they make too much money to accept new customers. Anyways they do not make the kit. They were one of hte only authroized dealers. Anyways, when I called them they said they were backordered. I needed one ASAP as my whole tranny was getting redone with every mod you can possibly do to it. Anyways, somebody helped me out and showed me a place to get it at wholesale. Cost $47. Shipped to my door it came to like $52. And I will give the link to everyone one here as Dunrite does not deserve to make money when they cannot answer emails and when you can only get a lady to pick up the phone who doesn't know anything technical. This place is a wholsale company, but they will sell to individuals. You have to search under Mitsubishi and then valvbody upgrade to find it. They have both Transgo and Translab. Plus they have only a bunch of locations so they'll have it somewhere. I jsut got mine 2 weeks ago. Here it is: www.aceomaticrecon.com

Man you are one life saver!

I called the place up and placed the order. $47.15. Today is Tuesday and they said I will most likely recieve it on Friday.

I'm so glad I got the kit. When I emailed Dunrite and got no reply AND heard that it is discontinued there, I was shocked. I couldn't believe that it wasnt available anymore. But its all good now.

Great place to deal with. Very friendly. Even though they are wholesale, they treat an individual with great respect. I know my $47 dollar order probably means nothing to their wholesale orders. Big thumbs up!

[BoostedTSi]

Originally posted by loreak
jon did a 12.02 with a 1.68 60 foot on stock TC with a big 16g, hes now running a fp green and he told me he needs to upgrade his TC he can only build 5-7psi on the line.

loreak, I can only build up about 1-2 psi at the line with my TRE ported Big 16g!!! Is there anything besides an upgraded TC that can help me? I was able to pull 2.2 sec 60' on the T-25 on sreet tires but now it feels like I'am doing 5 sec 60'. My turbo starts to spool at about 3,500 rpm and it reaches full boost at 4,000 rpm. Is this to much lag or do you guys have the same experience with upgraded turbos on A/T's.

[1997GS-T]

LaNg Jii, do you have the part number for the Shift Kit and End Clutch Kit? Thanks, Dan

[RochNY91TSI]

Originally posted by BoostedTSi


My turbo starts to spool at about 3,500 rpm and it reaches full boost at 4,000 rpm. Is this to much lag or do you guys have the same experience with upgraded turbos on A/T's.

It shouldn't be THAT bad, you should check for boost leaks as 4000 rpms seems way too high

[FastGSXauto]

depending on what gear you are in.. in 1st gear, once the boost starts rising, the RPMs go up so fast that it's probably 4000rpm when i get 18psi. But going up a hill in 4th gear at 3/4 throttle, I can get 8psi by 3100rpm.

[LaNg Jii]

Originally posted by 1997GS-T
LaNg Jii, do you have the part number for the Shift Kit and End Clutch Kit? Thanks, Dan

Yeah the part # for the shift kit is 4590921.

Here is the direct link to the webpage for the Translab shift kit.http://www.aceomaticrecon.com/catalog/automatics/series.asp?t=89

Just give them a call. Once you mention the TransLab shift kit for the Mitsubishi Eclipse, they'll know what you need.

[Fuse9Watt]

Never downshift???? how come? I just did the other day. I was in drive at 35-40 mph, low rpm range, I was about a car length from a mustang and so i dropped into 2nd... smooth as butter. So from 2nd gear at about 4000 rpms, i let it ripp, shifted at 6000 (car shifted at about 6700), no problems, and let the car cool down at the next light.

So my question is just how can down shifting hurt the transmission if your at cruise and at low rpms / mph

[fu98765]

As long as you are at low RPM's and low MPH it should not hurt the transmission. To get into first you must be going REALLY SLOW!!!!


Rob

[DCJ98GST]

What kind of 1/4 mile gains did you guys have after you did the shift kit? I am curious because I have a translab shift kit and end clutch going on my car Monday.

I was going to install it myself, but this guy is going to install it for $150 which I thought was a steel considering I hear it is about a 5 hour job.

[doug]

I have a similar question to DCJ98GST: does using a stiffer spring in the shift kit result in better track times, and if so, how much? I'd be willing to use the stiffest spring if it makes my car noticeably faster than using one of the "softer" springs...

[DCJ98GST]

Does a FWD Auto get less wheel spin compared to a FWD manual.

I know that the A/T are slower than the manuals for the reasons as stated above, but wouldn't the high first and second gears keep the front wheels from spinning as much compared to an manual FWD?

Kind-of like how people use the multistage boost controoler to keep power down at the 1st and 2nd gears.

[Maestr0]

I'm curious as to whether anyone sells a transbrake kits. That would surely help launch with a higher stall converter...:D

[fu98765]

I'm in serious need of some tranny mods. I went to the track the other day and was astounded by the poor performance of my car.


Here is MY BEST track slip:


60' 2.726

333 7.171

1/8 2.726

MPH 72.43

1000 13.613

1/4 16.114

MPH 89.66


My friend who has an automatic Mecury Sable beat the shit out of me off the line (about 1-1.5 car lengths) and then I passed him up hard around 5000rpm in second. From a roll my car pulls pretty damn good. I used every trick I know to get that 16.114. I stalled it to I think 2500rpm cause that is the stock stall. I manually shifted each gear. No neutral drops cause those suck. I also shifted flawlessly not hitting the rev limiter once. I usually do in first because sometimes it takes like a second for my car to shift.

For anyone looking at bigger turbos, make sure they spool quickly cause you will wish you had the T-25 back when racing from a stop. Now I know why Mitsubishi never put the 14B in an automatic car!!!!

Any suggestions or help would be appreciated. How much will it cost me to get back some of the serious perfomance loss I have encountered?

Rob

[TheObiJuan]

1/8 2.726

damn, that is some hardcore acceleration with your car having the same 60' as the 1/8 mile time.

there is something wrong with your car if you are getting a 2.7 60' time. were you towing a boat? did you have the ebrake on?
did you bother to powerbrake and build boost (please say yes)

[DCJ98GST]

Yea something seems wrong, Looking at your 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile trap speeds I calculated approx. 175 whp. You should be up around 200 hp with those mods.

http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/hp_mph_eight_mi.php
I used 3400 lbs and 20% drive train loss

Get the shift kit and end clutch done next and try again, I am curious what kind of time this will take off the 1/4 mile. Some people on the atdsm page were saying this will give you about 1/2 of a second. Although this seems like alot.

[fu98765]

I was not towing a boat but it sure felt like it. My car sucks. I've known that for a long time. I just needed some proof. Now I got it. Thanks.

I posted before exactly how I launched. I powerbroke it to whatever the stall is on the stock converter and manual shifted it through the gears. I ran 15 runs and this is the best I could get. The car had 1/2 tank of gas in it and the rest was full weight. Absolutly no weight reduction. I'm at about 1500ft above sealevel and the ambient temp was around 77*F. Very Very nice night at Heartland Park Topeka in Kansas.


Rob

[DCJ98GST]

My car sucks. I've known that for a long time. I just needed some proof. Now I got it. Thanks.

Your car doesn't suck.

Something is probably wrong though. The car is pretty new so probably no major problems. Try checking for boost leaks, change the fuel filter, plugs, wires.

Since you installed the 14B, check to see if you are leaking past the exhaust manifold, and does the 14B have shaft play?

[fu98765]

No my car is a piece. I've had to do thousands in repairs and maintanance since I got it a year ago. I have replace the wires and plugs (both NGK). How hard is the fuel filter? O2 sensor is also new about 4 months old now. I have no way to check for boost leaks. Maybe there is a internet site that says how to make a leak tester? Anyway my turbo had no shaft play. It boosts hard and consistantly when it hits 3000rpm. Like I said it has a damn good amount of power when the boost hits. I can make make up a 2 car lead that people get on me before the end of a 1/4 mile run.


Rob

[DCJ98GST]

I would check for boost leaks first. I got the JK leak tester from Mach V. Here is the link.

http://store.yahoo.com/machv/jkleaktester.html

I heard the fuel filter is a pain in the ass. This should help though.

http://www.stevetek.com/R-FuelSys.html

[Jehu]

The only way to really figure out what's going on is to datalog and analyze.

The other thing is, I really wouldn't go and buy a leak tester. All it takes is a PVC endcap, a tire valve stem, a coupler, some band claps, and you can make your own leak tester in under 1/2 an hour.

What's a super 14b by the way?

[turbotalon95]

Originally posted by fu98765
I'm in serious need of some tranny mods. I went to the track the other day and was astounded by the poor performance of my car.


Here is MY BEST track slip:


60' 2.726

Rob

Im sorry, but that is a horrible 60' time. I know you couldnt possibly have a traction problem, being reasonably stock and having awd. Something else has to be wrong with your car. From what I have seen every .10 off of your 60' equals up to .20 off your 1/4 time. If you can figure out what is wrong with your car and get that 60' time down to around 2.0 then you will be in the mid 14's or so. Which isnt all too bad. :) Oh yeah, how much are you boosting when you leave the line? You should be able to launch at full boost without problems.

[fu98765]

A super 14B is just bullshit that I made up when I wrote my sig that day. Now I have no desire to spend more money on my car. So data logging is out of the question cause I'm not going to spend the money on it just to find a problem that needs more money to correct. At least for right now I have no desire. Also I'd like to see one person here with a stock TDO5H who can launch with full boost built on the stock converter. Now the T-25 could do it. In fact when I had the T-25 in the brakes would break loose when I would stall the car and boost was built. When I leave the line it takes a couple of seconds for the boost to kick in. Then its bye bye. I think the problem is just turbo lag. NOT MY CAR. It runs fine and I've spent hella money on the bitch to get her running right. Maybe a boost leak exists but it is very small. No problems at idle and she holds boost strong an hard all the way to redline.


Rob

[InvaderGST]

Relax buddy. DSM's take time to tune. Not a simple task. That's what people have to learn. When you mod a car you have to get all the little things checked out before you can expect to kick ass. With any type of car you have to find out all your little problems. Like when I first started last year I bought all this stuff and it seemed like every little piece I put on I was pissed off about the performance and more stuff started to break. I even have a 2G automatic like you. I don't fell bad for you because I have replaced every piece under the hood. I blew my motor, blew my tranny, blew a 1 month old turbo, etc. etc. Well to make a long story short I finally have my DSM running strong and damn proud to have an automatic. You mod the auto trannny and you are going to spank manuals in the quarter. You cannot expect your car to perform much better going from a T-25 to a 14B. You just cannot expect much gain. But for everyone's knowledge, the datalogger is the best thing to buy for your car. For an automatic DSM the DSMlink is the single best thing I ever bought. It retains the timing through shifts. I love when people want to race me because they see I have an automatic. Don't give up. You'll eventually make a fast and reliable DSM. Not easy, but it will happen..........

[ukyo]

TransLab shift kit question -

I recently got the TransLab shift kit and I'm about to have it installed in my tranny. My question is this :

Will there be any issues of having a daily driver running with the stiffest spring in the kit? I ask because my old auto '79 Camaro literally ate the tranny internals because the shift kit was built more for drag racing and not daily driving... but it would spin the rears every time I took off, regardless of throttle position.

I just don't want to have anything bad happen to my auto GSX from the strong spring set up. ;)

Any advice will be very, very appreciated.

[Billios996]

Some websites you MUST visit if you drive an AT:

http://www.at.dsm.org
learn the basics of our trans, links to vendors, etc.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT-DSM/
Everybody on this list is super friendly and helpful. No MT guys to muddy the waters. The AT trans at the core of every mod discussion to insure minimal lag and drivability. All the latest AT technology trickles down through here. The fastest AT guys all post to this list - Russ Coxe and Kevin Kiggly - both running mid-10's.

www.vrcracing.com (http://www.vrcracing.com)
Russ' page.

fastest at times

http://www.plymouthlaser.com/
Lots of AT vfaq's


There are 2 real benefits to running an AT
1. torque multiplication you can get from aftermarket torque converters. I'm not talking about the gutted protorque units.
These guys are developing a brand new billet unit
[URL=http://www.converter.com]www.converter.com (http://users.erols.com/rcoxe/fastest.htm)
The more people that are interested, the quicker it will arrive and the less expensive it will be.
2. Never lift to shift.

Bill

[Billios996]

:D
I screwed up a couple links

Fastest AT times, courtesy of Russ Coxe
http://users.erols.com/rcoxe/fastest.htm

LOTS of VFAQ's courtesy of Charles
www.plymouthlaser.com (http://www.plymouthlaser.com/)

The more unified are AT efforts become, the faster we'll be kicking the MT's asses! :crackit:

Bill

[anoldsman]

I did not see an area for cars for sale so I hope this is ok. My 1992 Tsi auto car was totaled. Does any one know of an auto car for sale within 300 mile of Memphis TN? If not I will get a manual car and convert it later. That should make for an interesting test :)

Thanks
Chris S

[Jehu]

I have the black spring and turned up the line pressure, and I have no issues on mine other than the tranny being a little clunky as it goes in and out of first gear in stop and go. That's remedied by just dropping it down to 1st by the way.

[doug]

Originally posted by doug
does using a stiffer spring in the shift kit result in better track times, and if so, how much?

Just to reiterate and then I'll shut up: does using the black spring (or whatever color the strongest one is) make the car faster than using one of the other springs?

[DCJ98GST]

I just got the shift kit installed.:D

Wow!! This is definitely a performance mod. I choose the "red spring of wisdom". The shifts are very tight and smooth. I was assuming that the shift would bang into the gear hard, but it doesn't, it is so smooth it is almost hard to tell the gears have changed. And this makes me kind-of wish I chose the black spring. The boost does not go down at all between the shifts. Downshifting is instantaneous.

One more thing, it feels like the car has less Driveline loss than before, would the shift kit do this or am I imagining this. I used Synthetic BM Trickshift, would the synthetic make the torque converter have to do less work, and therefore give less drive line loss?

Anyway I am happy with this mod and would definitely recommend it to all A/T's.

[zola84]

that much difference really, the car feels faster ? I would like to see some ET times from before and after this mod.

[97TSiAWD]

I'm coming into this thread pretty late but I've read through all of it. I'm surprised that no one has posted in the DSMTalk.com Stuff forum about it. I will ask Ted about it and if you guys want to include your opinions, start a thread in DSMTalk.com Stuff.
Originally posted by Billios996
There are 2 real benefits to running an AT
1. torque multiplication you can get from aftermarket torque converters. I'm not talking about the gutted protorque units.
These guys are developing a brand new billet unit
www.converter.com (http://www.converter.com)
The more people that are interested, the quicker it will arrive and the less expensive it will be.
2. Never lift to shift.
Good links Billios996. However, I don't think you should put down the regutted Protorque or Dunrite units. They work, plain and simple. They may not be as nice as a brand new billet TC but they are available now, have been available for a while, and are a lot cheaper. Russ has run 10.5xx with his gutted Protorque; not too bad in my opinion.

I also just had my TC gutted by Protorque and am in the process of putting the tranny back in. The Precision Industries TC would be nice but 1. it's not available for public sale because 2. it's in development (and who knows when that will be finished). Pricing wasn't set but looking at the prices for billet units for domestic cars, it would probably be around $800-$1000. Compare that with $395 for a Protorque. :)

Jon

[Billios996]

Jon -
I was definitely not my intention to put down the Protorque unit. It is, in fact, an outstanding piece with a proven track record at a great price (no matter what that dipstick on the AT list says).
http://www.protorque.com/
I only mentioned the Precision Industries unit to show that there is ongoing progress to make our AT even more competetive.

BTW, I sould have also included Jon's web page in my previous post.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~sjburke/dsm/ownerJS.html

For those that didn't see Russ's fast AT times page yet, Jon is number five on that list, with a stock TC and a big 16g, with a 12.022. Very badass. I view Jon's page frequently as a reminder of what direction I want to go in.

Sorry Jon, I did the bragging for you ;)
Bill

[doug]

Originally posted by 97TSiAWD
The Precision Industries TC would be nice but 1. it's not available for public sale because 2. it's in development (and who knows when that will be finished).

I just got an e-mail today from them-- they said it would not be available for "a few weeks". So, take that for whatever it's worth. I doubt I could afford one right now, anyway.

[97TSiAWD]

Originally posted by Billios996
Sorry Jon, I did the bragging for you ;)
It's okay Bill, I don't mind. :D

By the way, that site is my member's page for Rochester Club DSM; it has my old mods that I ran those times with. My current mods are listed here: http://www.geocities.com/eagletalontsiawd .

Jon

[InvaderGST]

I had my tranny fully modded with everything possible. My question is does anybody sell aftermarket flexplates? This is the weak point of the tranny now. I tried contacting anyboedy out there that messes with the automatics and nobody sells a better than stock flexplate. Once's you start flying in the low 11's your flexplate will go.

[Billios996]

there was talk on the AT Yahoo group about a week ago regarding development an aftermarket flex plate. I think it was either Russ or Kevin Kiggly that was working with a manufacturer to develop the specs.

[RyanTalon]

A guy who has helped me a lot with my tranny and really knows his stuff asked me to post this:

TransLab TL-175 Mitsubishi performance
kit is available direct from TransLab:
Contact Dean Mason @
714-549-9922 or FAX 714-549-9933

TransLab also does technical seminars
for Alto and is a distributor for the
END CLUTCH anti-warp kit you've been
using, along with complete hi-perf
friction/overhaul kits for the F4A33 and
W4A33's (diamanti, stealth, eclipse, etc).

He literally wrote a book on these things and was great help getting me into the 12's

[InvaderGST]

Hey Ryantalon, ask your guy if he knows where to get aftermarket flexplates. That is the weak link of our tranny's with all the mods out there.

[RyanTalon]

I'll see what I can find.....

[loreak]

FU98765 it sounds like you have some major problems. As far as i knew the stock TC was supposed to stall at 3000rpm, if yours only stalls to 2500 that could make the difference in spooling off the line. I know the stock TC is plenty good to launch at full boost on a 14b or a 16g as long as your brakes hold. Do you have a downpipe? I noticed a big difference going from stock exhaust to catback and just as much of a difference in launching going from catback to full exhaust. I trapped 94mph on my t25 and i was running pump gas and running 16psi or so. U got a boost leak or somethings really off because you should be at least 95mph+

[loreak]

How much does that translab kit cost and what all is in it? I was reading earlier that translab stopped making the shift kits, is that true?

[doug]

Originally posted by loreak
As far as i knew the stock TC was supposed to stall at 3000rpm, if yours only stalls to 2500 that could make the difference in spooling off the line.

All the numbers I've seen say the stock TC does stall around 2500 or so, but it's different from car to car.

[fu98765]

I'm running the stock DP and yes I know my car has something wrong with it. However, I have lost hope in my car and am not willing to put money into finding the root of the problem. I want a DP upgrade but I'm going to wait till I got some more money. I'll check again to see what it stall at but no boost builds. That is for sure.


Rob

[ippkiss]

there is somthing wrong if you can't build any boost off the line. I can stall up to 3300 rpms, and then my cars just starts pulling through the brakes. Nano was saying that his car would stall up to 3500 rpms on the stock converter and small 28 and build 24 psi at the line.

[fu98765]

Well what the hell would cause it to not stall to a very high RPM?


Rob

[ippkiss]

how long are you powerbraking it for? I have to hold mine for a while(proably 6 or 7 sec to get that high). Did it powerbrake fine when you had the t-too small? I'm not sure but shouln't the 14b be making at least some boost at 2500 rpms? maby you have a cloged cat or somthing?

[BoostedTSi]

You should not powerbrake for anymore more than 5 second. Holding it longer could mess up your stock TC. I can on build up 1-2 psi at the line on my Big 16g at about 2,800 rpm's on my stock TC. But I'll hit 18 psi at about 4,000 rpms. The lag is bad compared to the T-25 but it really makes up for it after 4,000 rpms. :eek:

[fu98765]

Well I powerbroke my car last night and it will initially stall at 2300rpm and then slowly climb to a maximum of 2500rpm. No boost builds at all. It comes about a second later after releasing the brakes. Remember I have no downpipe or catalytic convertor upgrade. It is all stock. I'm pretty damn sure that my catalytic convertor is a piece of sh*t that doesn't flow much but I'll take care of that pretty soon.

According to the almighty DSM manual I should stall at a "Standard Value" of 3,300-3,600rpm. I doesn't. So it says that either I'm getting insufficient power from the engine or I have a faulty torque convertor.

I have no other symptoms that suggest a faulty TC cause my transmission seems to work fine. Especially when the BOOST HITS.:eek: I believe it to be insufficient engine power caused by turbo lag. If I remember correctly I could stall that high with the T-25 cause the boost created added enough power to make the TC stall higher. In fact my brakes used to not even be able to hold the car when boost built. The manual says to check the ignition timing, valve clearance, misfiring, etc in order to find out what the dilleo is.

Maybe I should take it to a professional. Or maybe I should wait until my exhaust is finished to see if that is what is choking my enigine. Or maybe it is a boost leak. Of course it would be leaking before the boost actually came. :rolleyes:

BoostedTSi seems to have about the same trouble as me. The stock engine running no boost is pretty damn weak at low RPM's.

Rob

[Fuse9Watt]

Hmm, fu98765, it's unlikely your exhaust is the problem since a better flowing exhaust helps out high end. however if it helps spool up that 14B then it may just solve your launching problem.

[fu98765]

Well I checked my transmission fluid level and it is pretty damn high. In fact with it cold the fluid goes past the black plastic piece with the hot and cold marks on it by about 1/2in. :eek: Of course this may be a f*cked reading level because it was cold and my car has not been driven in a day or so. I believe that much of the fuild would be drained from the parts of the tranny and collect in there giving a false reading. :scholar:

By all means correct me if I'm wrong. Could this be the source of my troubles? :dunno: I don't see how personally, but hell, who knows! Maybe fluid level does affect the STALL SPEED of the torque convertor. Remeber I can only get around 2300-2500 RPM stall. The DSM SERVICE Manual states the standard value is 3,300-3,600 RPM.

Where are the tranny NERDS when you need them!!!http://www.lamer.net/headshake.gif


Rob

[Jehu]

I believe that by the time your tranny fluid level affects your stall speed all your other tranny functions will be compromised too. You did move it through all the gears, stopping in neutral to check the tranny fluid level right?

Just a quick check to see if it's your exhaust, you could just disconnect your catback (I can't advocate disconnecting your cat because it would be illegal), and just take it for a run to see if it makes a difference. If it still spools slowly, you've either got a malfunctioning turbo, cracks in the exhaust housing upstream of the turbine, wastegate stuck open, anything that slows down the spool of the turbo. My 14b builds boost to at least 10psi at 3k rpms in about 5 seconds. It takes a little longer than the T25, but it should still build boost off the line.

[fu98765]

Oh, I got cracks alright. On the manifold (very tiny) and on the wastegate hole. Still I build boost fine by I'd say 2750-3000rpm. The only problem is that the tranny refuses to stall any higher than 2300-2500rpm. No boost there on my 14B. The disconnecting of the DP is an interesting proposition. Not sure if I like the idea though.


Rob

[BoostedTSi]

With my T-25 I could build boost fine off the line and my stall was about 2,800 to 3,000. I had 2.2 sec 60' on the T-25. Now I just Installed my TRE ported Big 16g a few weeks ago and when I powerbrake my rpms go to about 2,000 for about a 1 second and then they drop down to only 1,300rpm's :confused: . I can only build 1-2 psi at line if I'am lucky. I have a 2" 1/2 downpipe test pipe and 3" catback. I don't think that I have damaged the stock TC. Does anyone know whats wrong? Could it be the turbo causing this to happen? Do I need to upgrade my TC?

[ippkiss]

If you realy think that the 14b just dosen't have enough lowend torque to get a good powerbreak launch, why not just install a small(35-50 shot) wet N2O system, and use that to spool you turbo? Nano has some videos of some absoultly awsom nitrous launches.

[Gopherhog]

don't get him started on NAAAAWWWS.

[loreak]

this is so odd, everyones TC seems to be different, I can build full 15psi of boost sometimes within 1-2 seconds, when its cold out it builds like a motherfuka, if the tranny isnt warmed up or somethign it can take like 4-5 seconds. Mine stalls at 3000rpm. I was with Jon when he had his big 16g and he did a brake torque on stock converter and launched at 10-15psi with 3 of us it freakin took off. I guess its all about if u got a factory gimp TC hehe, thats an anti factory freak.

[Billios996]

what size exhuast housing do you have?

Originally posted by BoostedTSi
With my T-25 I could build boost fine off the line and my stall was about 2,800 to 3,000. I had 2.2 sec 60' on the T-25. Now I just Installed my TRE ported Big 16g a few weeks ago and when I powerbrake my rpms go to about 2,000 for about a 1 second and then they drop down to only 1,300rpm's :confused: . I can only build 1-2 psi at line if I'am lucky. I have a 2" 1/2 downpipe test pipe and 3" catback. I don't think that I have damaged the stock TC. Does anyone know whats wrong? Could it be the turbo causing this to happen? Do I need to upgrade my TC?

[Andre the Giant]

Just jumping on the bandwagon here... an A/T forum would be greatly appreciated. I've just about worn out the little red Search button, trying to find info about A/T to M/T ECU swaps and Injector info. If all that was concentrated in the A/T forum, things would be a whole lot easier.

[Billios996]

AndretheGiant - go to the AT DSM yahoo group and do a digest search. Huge amounts of discussion on your topic. Much of it was along the lines of do you need to swap ecu if you swap injectors, etc.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT-DSM/

the current discussion is about supplying fuel for a ported 16g upgrade.

[fu98765]

Well NAWS is out of the question. I'd rather drive my car off a cliff, end of story. I don't want to hear you NAWS fools bitch about my comment. PM me if you want to bitch. Anyway I would really like to know why some cars can stall and some cannot to the value specified by mitsubishi. All I know is that some of us, when we switched to the TDO5H setup, we exeperienced a dramatic loss of low end power and cannot stall to the appropriate stall speed. Does it really take a lot of power to push the stall up to 3300-3600rpm?


Rob

[hostilestealth]

Originally posted by doug


Are you sure about this? I thought the end clutches were made by Alto. I also thought the TransLab kit was actually made by TransLab, but I'm not so sure about that...

Yeah I think he is mistaken dunrite is a resale place that happens to have hift kits.

Look up transmission supply in your phone book and call around for the Trans lab kit.

[BoostedTSi]

Originally posted by Billios996
what size exhuast housing do you have?

I am using a 7 cm axhaust housing on my TRE ported Big 16G.

[fu98765]

Well I'm gonna order the shift kit and end clutch upgrade for my car. My car may suck from a stop but I'm gonna make it killer from a roll. Does anyone know how much tranny shops usually charge for doing the shift kit install?


Rob

[ippkiss]

Originally posted by fu98765
Well NAWS is out of the question. I'd rather drive my car off a cliff, end of story. I don't want to hear you NAWS fools bitch about my comment. PM me if you want to bitch. Anyway I would really like to know why some cars can stall and some cannot to the value specified by mitsubishi. All I know is that some of us, when we switched to the TDO5H setup, we exeperienced a dramatic loss of low end power and cannot stall to the appropriate stall speed. Does it really take a lot of power to push the stall up to 3300-3600rpm?


Rob

Did I say NAWS? Are we talking about mad tight vtek yo? no. I said that if you wanted to lauch like a bat out of hell, NITROUS OXIDE is the way to go. Are there a bunch of idiots that have no idea what there doing using naws? yes. Does that mean that its impossable to use nitrous safely? no. You have a problem, I presented an answer. If you don't belive me, search for nano's vid of him verses a low 12 sec Camaro, he must put 4-5 car lenghts on the camaro.

[Billios996]

Originally posted by BoostedTSi


I am using a 7 cm axhaust housing on my TRE ported Big 16G.

Do you have a clip on the exhaust wheel?
Do you have the stock O2, DP, and cat con and ported Exh mani?

You're at a little bit of a disadvantage with a 7cm housing (compared to a 6cm) because it will take some higher engine rpm's to get the exhaust gas velocity needed to rotate the turbine to spool the compressor wheel. It would be even worse if you have a clip on the exh wheel. (Try blowing through a paper towel tube, then blow throw a straw. It takes more work to blow the same mass of air thru the straw, but it's blasting out at a higher velocity. Imagine holding a pinwheel in front of each. What would happen?)

(These are not problems for the MT because they can engage their trans at eny engine speed they like. We are limited to engine speed by our torque converter.)

You can help correct this by minimizing the pressure drops in your exhaust, ie easy flow thru the mani, ported O2 housing for good wastegate function, downpipe (or O2 eliminator DP which is what I have on the way), hi flow cat/test pipe for track, and the cat-back. You could even get header wrap and a turbo blanket to keep the heat energy from being wasted.

This helps maximize exhaust gas energy transfer to the exh wheel rather than fighting through obstacles in your exhaust path.

I hope this helped

Bill

[DCJ98GST]

Does anybody make a LSD for an auto or can we use something like the quaffe?

[loreak]

I definately gotta agree with you billios996 about the minimize exhaust restrictions. My car would pull probably like 4-5psi brake torque and that woulda been like 2.6-2.7 60 foot, with catback id launch at like 10psi, and with downpipe too, i launch full 15-17psi and id guestimate im around 2.0 60 foot. I ran at the track once and my tranny wasnt warmed up and i only launched at 5psi and i managed a 2.35 60 foot, it was sooooo weak, if i launched like i normally do it would have easily been 2 flat.

[doug]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
Does anybody make a LSD for an auto or can we use something like the quaffe?

I don't know why we wouldn't be able to use the Quaife. I believe some guys on the DSM A/T list have one.

[LaNg Jii]

Hey guys,

I just posted in the "DSMtalk.com Stuff" section asking Ted for an Automatic section.

Please post there and show your support!

Support the Automatic Section (http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=61667)

Thanks!

[RyanTalon]

I run a td05 20g on my 92 awd and here's what I've found.
Stock brakes don't cut it I used to pull through them with a 16g

My current launch technique (AEM rotor upgrade/SS lines/2 piston calipers) Pull the handbrake as hard as I can, mash the brake pedal with the left foot, mash the gas with the right foot.
Probably 5-6 secs to build to 4k rpm and 10psi- ish
The car starts to creep, drop the handbrake lift the left foot

Consistently, I see low 1.8 60fts my best has been a 1.736
No drag radials here 235/45/17 bridgestone 730's

I think (myself included) a lot of guys are scared to break something and don't push as hard.
My T/C is stock and I think "stall" is directly related to the amount of torque your engine is making. Which is why manufacturers never give an exact number but more of a stall range.

As for the 2g guys I think they have a harder time because the T/Cs lock up differently than the 1g's

[Billios996]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT-DSM/message/21276

great thread on 6 cm vs 7 cm housings

Bill

[rdperf]

automatic turbo cars are faster than standards if set up correctly. High stall converters, manual valve bodies with manual converter lock up add up to never being out of the power band, instant shifts, and direct 100% coupling through the coverter when locked up. Look at the grand National Buicks. the all came with an auto, and every time someone switched to a standard they got slower. the reason there arent a lot of fast auto DSMs is because the is just not enough interest in the after market because people who buy these cars want to shift a manual. Also the automatics come frome the factory with a less agressive cam profile and a smaller turbo. so they start out slower right out of the box. Until someone comes out with some real hard core parts (stronger input shafts-billet drums-ect) the autos will be slower, or broken.later..........Danny

[Billios996]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT-DSM/message/27133
you MUST read through this thread. Probably the best discussion on torque converters you will come across. (hehe, he said come across :D )

You may want to go thru this link first to learn how torque converters work. The above thread gets detailed.
http://www.ecanfix.com/~atdsm/faq_torque01.htm

Bill
Me Tonite >> :beer:

[WhoaTed]

Its been suggested before by several people including moderators, but it was LaNg Jii's post in DSMtalk.com Stuff which finally pushed us to get this Auto Tranny forum created. :) Thanks for the suggestions.

I don't want to cut off this thread mid-stream, but please try to now form topic specific threads in this new forum instead of adding to this very long thread :)

[TheObiJuan]

thanks ted. we can finally feel like part of the family and sit at the table when we eat. i was getting of tired of licking scraps off the floor:P


now...lets keep the tech business going...

[doug]

Originally posted by rdperf
Also the automatics come frome the factory with a less agressive cam profile and a smaller turbo. so they start out slower right out of the box.

Note that this is true only for 1Gs-- 2Gs have the same cams and turbo for both auto and 5-speed. BTW, putting 1G manual cams in a 2G auto is a nice upgrade, from what I've heard.

[TheObiJuan]

BTW, putting 1G manual cams in a 2G auto is a nice upgrade, from what I've heard.

that is actually a good point that i would like to discuss.
people say that the auto's have a good exhaust cam that gives good lowend torque, but the intake cam from a manual is way better than ours. has anyone ever tried a combination of manual and auto cam's?

[InvaderGST]

I have a 2G auto and it runs like a champ. The key is getting a high stall torque converter, the translab shift kit, and most importantly the DSMlink. The DSMlink is probably the best thing you can buy for a 2G DSM. It retains the timing on automatics through the shifts. Yu just zip through the gears. In a quarter mile the automatics have a great advantage. In 2G's the auto's and manuals have no difference. In the 1G's there's a drastic difference in stock form.

[TheObiJuan]

yeah i know, i have a 1g dsm auto...it sucks...:(
but that can be fixed with a few parts and upgrades...

[loreak]

I read about that with the dsmlink, keeping the timing up during shifts. Does it really make that much of a difference? I do remember when i was into probes the 2g auto guys had some mod they would do and the car wouldnt cut spark or timing or something inbetween shifts and it would squeal 2nd gear hard on the shift.

[InvaderGST]

Well of course it makes a big difference retaining timing through shifts. That is why manuals are more popular than automatics. When you drive your stock automatic you'll se and feel the shifts and notice it slows the car down as timing is retarded until it gets into the next gear. When it retains it's timing it just goes. It's like if you ran down the block and pause while your clone next to you never pauses. Will you or your clone of yourself win the race?

[DCJ98GST]

This whole thing has been bugging me since I heard about it. I was about to ask the same question as loreak's.

Well of course it makes a big difference retaining timing through shifts.

Yea it retards timing between shifts but in the split second between shifts the engine is not engaged so why does it matter, as long as the timing is there again once the clutch is released?

Or does that lack of timing between the shifts carry over to when the engine is engaged?

[Doric]

Jeebus - I thought I'd never reach the end of this thread!

Thanks for the A/T forum, mods. I think it'll be well-received.

[nano]

Some people have issues launching with the stock TC. But with good tunnig I was able to get a 1.81 60ft with no nirtous power braking to 3500rpm in about 3 seconds. Then I got a dunrite High stall thinking it would be much better. I would stall to 3000rpm quicker just by punching it. But when powerbraking it felt the same as the stock one and I was able to power to 3500rpm the same way, but it would get there a little quiker. To my surprise the upgraded dunrite only got me a 1.82 60ft. I was sort of disapointed for $500 + $72 for shiping. I want something with a 4000rpm stall now. But to get real good awsome launches there's nothing like launching with a 75 shot off the line. I just sit there barely holding the throtle at 2800rpm. Then when I floor it the nitrous kicks in and the rpm shoot to 4000rpm and the boost instantly jump to 21psi.. Tires brake loose and I'm gone.

Here's some vids on the nitrous.
Here's me doing a 1.70 60ft with nitrous and a 12.1 @ 112mph. The pinto with a v8 next to me ran a 13.3.
http://www.brokezr.8k.com/images/movies/june10/1213n.WMV

This is me the same day running with no nitrous with a 1.82 60ft.
http://www.brokezr.8k.com/images/movies/june10/1297n.WMV

This is my buddy doind a 1.68 60ft on he's green powered 5spd talon.
http://www.brokezr.8k.com/images/movies/june10/1161.WMV

And this is me again doing a launch on my buddys 12 second Camaro. This is me back when I had the stock Smic running pump gas and only a 55shot. Actually the car felt weak. But the launch was preaty good.
http://www.brokezr.8k.com/images/movies/saturday/greggvsnano.WMV

[BoostedTSi]

[Originally posted by Billios996
[B]

Do you have a clip on the exhaust wheel?
Do you have the stock O2, DP, and cat con and ported Exh mani?

You're at a little bit of a disadvantage with a 7cm housing (compared to a 6cm) because it will take some higher engine rpm's to get the exhaust gas velocity needed to rotate the turbine to spool the compressor wheel. It would be even worse if you have a clip on the exh wheel. (Try blowing through a paper towel tube, then blow throw a straw. It takes more work to blow the same mass of air thru the straw, but it's blasting out at a higher velocity. Imagine holding a pinwheel in front of each. What would happen?)
Bill [B]

Billios996, I have a ported but not clipped 7cm with a ported O2 housing, 2" 1/2 downpipe/testpipe, and 3" catback. I don't have a ported exha mani but even with my turbo back set up I still get a lot of lag. I reach full boost at 4,000 rpm's on my Big 16g.