RRE T28

[Joseph]

Well, just received RRE's T28 a few days ago. Install went pretty smoothly with the help of the factory manual (Chilton's). Everything hooked up fine and I only needed to replace the exhaust/turbo gasket.
With boost set at a conservative 16.0 psi, lag was not present at all (just like stock T28), and power delivery was all the way to redline. I still have my stock downpipe so I know more improvement is in order. Just ordered an Apex Dunk and downpipe from a guy off dsmtrader and I hope to get it by saturday and see how install goes.
As far as time slips go, tonight is "test and tune" night at the sacramento strip. I'll see how I do. Looking foward to low 14's at best with my current mods,pump gas, and 16 psi.

95 TSi AWD
Greddy SP, BOV&pipe, and MBC
K&N filter
T28

[Edited by Joseph on 01-31-2001 at 02:54 PM]

[redryda]

how long did the install take, honestly
did you have truoble with oil lines.

Did you port anything, or just leave the
ex mani on. Post and lets hear more
about times on this.

[gsxalex]

Can you tell us more about the turbo?

Cost?
Is it a simple drop in replacement?
Apearance compared to the t-25?
Is the wastegate better than the t-25?
Can you tell much of a difference with how hard it pulls?
In your opinion, Is it worth the money?
Any other impressions?

Thanks:)

[Talonboy604]

im very interested to hear about it.....im considering goin the same route and setup for a huge turbo....i know i know...save the money for the big turbo but i wanna have some fun while i setup for the big turbo.

[Joseph]

Ok, install, it took me a good day to instal this turbo. About 6 hours or so, as I never messed with the turbo before in my life! As for appearance, it looks exactly like the t25 when installed. But, if you had it in your hands, you can tell the the blades are A LOT bigger, like, 60% or so. As for cost, it was reasonable, $850 which includes your core. As for oil and water lines, it is recommended that they are replaced if they're bad, but mine were still very good. The gasket on the other hand, needs to be replaced, only a few bucks.
As far as performance goes, after a few days of driving at 16 psi, I'd hafta' say that lag is almost like the stock, give or take 500rpm's. Mike (at RRE) said that after porting the exhaust mani' and sensor housing, it "shouldn't be a problem". "GXSALEX", it makes a world of a difference when it pulls, it pulls hard. And yes, it's a drop in replacement. The wastegate looked the same, as it is the same turbo, but I"ll hafta' email Mike about that. "Redryda", the mani' could be left stock, but porting it will help you take adavantage of the t28's power. Mike says up to a 20hp gain with the downpipe. I'll probably get it ported when my downpipe and new exhaust arrives.
Ok, numbers...my car with the stock t25 ran a best of 14.95 at 15.0 psi. As all you guys know, it takes lots of practice to launch your AWD right. My first runs with the t28 were quite dissapoining, 14.952 and 14.775. By the end of the day, I finally had it right more. Best time was 14.289. Not bad, but I should be doing better with more practice. Time to hunt down those 'Stangs! Anyways, I'll probably head up there on Saturday looking for AT LEAST LOW 14's possibly, high 13's at best. Still have my stock pump (which is why I don't wanna' run past 16 psi) which I'm worried about. I'll probably order one from Summit this weekend too. If my downpipe and exhaust arrives by then, 13's should definately be a gaurentee!
Oh, one more thing, why not a 16g upgrade you say?? Didn't wanna' messe with a hassling instal kit which will probably run me $300 on labor and the darn thing needs to be ported to take advantage of it's full potential, about $200, depending on where you go. Also, I can basically run my stock ECU and injectors and not worry about anything on the T28. Well, I'll keep you guys posted on how I do guys...and keep the questions coming if you'd like.

95 TSi AWD
Greddy SP, BOV&pipe, and MBC
K&N pipe
T28

[Edited by Joseph on 02-01-2001 at 04:22 PM]

[Talonboy604]

im very impressed....14.2 wit jus a intake,uicp,bov and the t28...this was witout the exhaust and dp rite? dang...that jus makes my decision for me between a 14b or t28.

[Joseph]

Well, yeah, but I did have my Greddy SP exhaust, about 2.75"-3.0". Though it's not a "real" exhaust it does get the job done. The Apexi exhaust and downpipe (along w/ a high flow cat) unit will give me a true exhaust system and hopefully consistant 13's (which I'm positive, it will).
While this is all great, "heat soke" is now a concern as I am running with the stock intercooler. Still, I should be okay since I am keeping my boost pressure down.
Anyway, Saturday looks good as I should get my parts . I will not accept anything below a 14 flat! Mike reccomends a high flow fuel pump so that is coming too. Still looking for a deal. When I get my mani' and O2 housing ported, mid to low 13'a should be expected. On pump gas too. We'll just hafta wait and see. Meanwhile I'll probably drive down to DSS to get the porting done next week.


Talon TSi AWD
Greddy SP, BOV&pipe, MBC
K&N intake
T28

[Creamo3]

If you are considering buying a bigger turbo, wait and save for a least a 16g. Otherwise you will be wasting your money the first time. Anyways I have heard of GST's that ran 14 flat on a T-25 with intake,exhaust, boost control. Save your money now and be happier later.

[Talonboy604]

well the thing is that im gonna get my t25 upgraded for cheap...really cheap...only reason im doin this is because i wanna have some fun this season and setup for a big turbo later on...something bigger then a 16g...not sure which turbo but something that would push me into the 11's easily..

[Joseph]

Wow, a 14 flat from a t25 and fwd! Unheard of ! Good for him. Well turns out that my stuff didn't arrive until Monday, still ok though. The Apex Dunk, downpipe, and high flow cat bolted on good with no problems. I also took the extra time to make a trip to Concorde, California. One dude was selling his ported O2 so I bought it from him for 50 dollars. I would have loved his mani' too, but he sold it on dsmtrader already.
Anyways, on to the numbers. With my mods: bov&pipe, dp&exhaust, mbc&intake, ported 02, and the T28, I got a best time of 13.452 (without power shifting!!). Still, I think if I were to get the shifting thing down better and my reaction time quicker, I would have easily nailed a 13.3 at 16 psi. Mike says that if I get my fuel pump, crank it up to 18 psi, port my mani', and get some better rubber (instead of my stockers), I can expect to run very low 13's..."possibly high 12's on a good day." As far as my stock intercooler goes. I will have to address that issue as well. I am running with the plastic fenderwell off at the track. That, plus very good weather has lessen my worries. When the weather starts hittin' the high 80's and beyond, I will definately hafta' shop for one. I can still run with the stock one, but if I want more consistant times, this upgrade IS a must for anyone.
How about race fuel and 20 psi you say??? Feasible, but I'll wait 'till I get an intercooler. Don't wanna' risk the high temperatures. Anyways, if I can hit a solid low 13 with 18 psi, it will be all worth it. Lag is totally unnoticable and my ride is still as streetable as the day I bought it, asides from the deep tone of the exhaust (which I love). All this and I have only spent a little more than 1500 dollars. Not much people can say that. Well, time to hunt for an intercooler and some good tires, possible some NT555's!! Stay tuned...

[95TalonTsi]

I hit a 14.2 with a fwd and mods listed below. Should be in the 13's with downpipe and uicp. Thats on street tires, if I had slicks on car I would be in the 13's now. Im glad you posted about the T28 because thats what I want to replace my T25, good info.

[Boostd4]

I had a 95 AWD back before I sold it for my 91. I too considered the T28 upgrade. It was just so darn expensive.

You can get a reasonably low mileage 16G off the trader for $450. You can also put together your own kit by ordering 1G kit parts from Conicelli at cost. I built a kit for $90. That's $540 AND I kept my T-25.

When it comes to driveability.. the T28 with same mods of course will spool faster, but when you compare to stock, it's not that bad. my 95AWD with ported (free - did it myself) 16G, manifold, 02 eliminator d/p and 3" exhaust was at full boost under 3000rpm. Maybe 200-300rpm later than my T25. You could tell the difference, but it was negligable.. the power however was not.

My $0.02

Adam

[Joseph]

Cool...well, like I said, earlier, I didn't wanna' mess with a hassling install kit. Personally, I don't think I'm mechanically adept to handle that kinda stuff. I had the thing up in about 6 hours. Which included unhooking my old t25 and installing the t28, so that wasnt' bad. I can probably do it again at half the time. While the 16g is cool and all, I personnaly don't wanna sacrifice the drivablitly of my ride. The t28 spools quicker and hits just as hard as a 16g, given if it's not ported. Maybe you can gives us some hints on how to do so.
Anyways, I am trying get my site up, which will be up in a few weeks. I will try to document what I did, and put up my slips as well.

[Edited by Joseph on 02-15-2001 at 04:12 PM]

[redryda]

hey Joseph
why dont you help me put on a t28

come on you got time
i am only in FRISCO

[ProjectGSX]

The only T28 I have experience with, is the unit that Forced Performance sells.. but I would assume that the one RRE sells is pretty similar.

A friend of mine with a Spyder GST put the T28 on his car, and I have the XS Engineering IHI 16G Killer on my GSX. From a rolling start, we were just about dead even. We have just about the same mods, and see almost identical HZ values on the AFC. So it is safe to say that the T28 flows about the same as the XS Engineering 16G Killer.

However, the T28 looks stock. That is nice. The 16G killer doesnt use a lower heat shield, and it uses a funky J pipe.

So between the two, I would definitely say go for the T28. Of course, this is for people with 2Gs. If the T28 isnt enough turbo for you, go to a 20G.. dont bother with a 16G though.

[eslai]

Hi all, I just got on the forums today.

I installed a T28/28 into my '98 GS-T late last year. The turbo was purchased from Road Race Engineering, and it is indeed the Forced Performance T28/28.

I initially installed it with just a 150lph fuel pump and typical intake upgrades. Yes--stock exhaust. Boost was set to 16 PSI.

I found that the stock exhaust severely hindered the turbo. Lag was increased about 500 RPM. I took it to the track and my best was a 15.2@96MPH. Keep in mind that I SUCK at drag racing.

I then upgraded to a full 2.5" turbo-back exhaust system with a hi-flow cat. Lag returned to normal--about 3400 RPM for full boost, and I was able to pull a 14.6@101MPH. Once again, keep in mind that I REALLY SUCK at drag racing. My 60' times are horrendous.

Moral of the story is--don't upgrade your turbo before the exhaust system.

I love this turbo--I've since put in an S-AFC and 550cc injectors. I'm in the process of tuning everything for 18PSI and the car feels nice. If you're looking for great driveability, good top end, and a stock installation, this is THE turbo for 2G owners. I'm more interested in Road Racing than drag, and this turbo kicks ass around Buttonwillow.

However, if you're into drag racing, and you wanna push 2 bar through your engine, may I suggest a 20G? :)

[Joseph]

Ok, it has been a while. Well, here is what I have done so far. Got my fuel pump from dsmtrader for 100 bucks. Install went Ok, it took my friend and I about 4 hours. Also made a drive to Pismo too. Visited Diamond Star Specialties to port my manifold. Cost was 100 bucks.
Anyways, just came from the track yesterday. Boy was I impressed. Lag was imperent and I achieved a best of time of 13.088 at 18.0psi. I think I would have done better had the rain not ruin the day. I still have my stock tires so it did hender me a bit. Launching at 5500 rpm's and shifting at around 6500-6700 produced the best times. I have shaved my times by almost half a second with only 200 bucks worth of mods, cool huh?
Plans for now are a custom 'straight through' and a better response time. The new tires are on hiatus as I am now shopping for a new intercooler. Probably a new side mount or a second hand fmic. Stay tuned...

[ProjectGSX]

Sounds like you got some pretty good times out of that turbo! Was the 13.0 on pump gas or race gas? Did you use a catalytic converter or a test pipe? What was your trap speed? Are you running the stock SMIC or a FMIC?

[Joseph]

Ok, my best time of 13.088 was with my stock intercooler (with the plastic fenderwell removed). Trap speed was 106 mph. Anyways, I must admit that my times were not consistant. It ranged from 13.0 to 13.8 (13.825, to be exact). With a bigger intercooler, I can expect more consistant times. I am at the hands of mother nature, so to speak. I have a high flow cat as of now. I'll probably get a removable custom straight done at the muffler shop some time this week. I will be at the Sacramento Raceway this week if weather permits.
Yeah, this turbo is cool. I personally feel that this is what 80% of us need. A good all around turbo that doesn't lag and is reasonably priced. If an all out horsepower war was what I wanted, I would have gone with the 20g.

[97GSTAT]

I'm interested in the T28/28. I read on FP that there's ran like a 12.7 with it. I think that's pretty impressive. But I would like to be able to break into the 11's with what ever turbo I get, and in a daily driver. I know it's pretty difficult to do with an A/T. But that's my goal. :) Does anyone have any HP and TQ numbers for any T28. I like the idea of stock lag with more power all around. But right now it's between either a T28, Small 16G, or Big 16G. Keep up with the info, it's greatly appreciated.

[ProjectGSX]

97GSAT - Chances are with an AT, you wont run 11s with any of those turbos. You are going to have to go bigger than that.. with a 2G, expect to do the 1G Intake/Head/TB swap as well, plus cams.

[97GSTAT]

Originally posted by ProjectGSX
97GSAT - Chances are with an AT, you wont run 11s with any of those turbos. You are going to have to go bigger than that.. with a 2G, expect to do the 1G Intake/Head/TB swap as well, plus cams.
Yeah I know it's probably going to be hard to pull those number's off, but has been done with a Big 16G I believe. Anyways that is my goal, not that I'm ever gonna get to that goal but I'm going try. :D I like the FPT28/28 but my local shop doesn't install FP stuff. I believe they use Greddy and Archer Racing. But if it's not to difficult I might do the install myself. I ,like Joseph, have never done any turbo work before in my life. So that kinda worries me about doing the install myself. But first I have to done the Tranny first. So it's gonna be awhile until I get the turbo anyways.

[ProjectGSX]

Thats cool, sorry if I came off badly. I just cant understand having goals that you dont think you will ever attain. But to each their own, right?

As for installing a turbo.. when I bought my GSX, I had never even so much as changed the oil on a car before. Never. Ive done 3 turbo swaps on my car now, and it just gets easier every time.

[97GSTAT]

ProjectGSX,

It's cool. I know you mean't well, so no hard fellings. As for not being able to obtain my goal, I just don't want my car to no longer be a good daily driver. I no I can pull those number's if I go with a 20G, but to me that's to much turbo for an A/T daily driver. Although I have heard of people using it on a daily driver A/T, so I know it's been done before. I don't really know how far I'm going to go with my car just yet. If money wasn't an issue then I'd try for 10's. :D Oh well I guess I can dream. Thanks for the encouragement over installing a turbo. Man I just don't want to screw up my car, it's my pride and joy. By the way awesome car man. I love the look of a 2G lowered, that's next on my projects.

[mymitsu]

Joseph, those times are quite impressive with the turbo. Thanks for posting all your information.

Are you running with the stock clutch still or have you burned it up yet?

[Joseph]

Well, I am still using my stock clutch as of now. The guy whom I bought it from (Nov' of 2000), just replaced it for me with a stock version. It'll still hold up 'till summer at best. I am looking for an ACT2100 or 2600. That or a side mount. Brake pads are shot as well. Looking for some too.
I'm making a trip to the Sac Racepark this Wednesday. Hopefully I'll see someone there.

[ProjectGSX]

I was at Sac Raceway on Saturday afternoon.. I would recommend against going on a Wednesday night. You will get maybe 3 runs tops. It is REALLY crowded. Saturday afternoon test 'n tune is a lot better.