computer shifts faster than manual?

[sonnguyen]

ok, when i say manual i mean when you put it in 1 then 2 and so on. well for some reason when i go from 1 2 D it seems a lil slow then when im at a roll of 20 mph and just tromp the gas pedal... anyone know anything of it? (oh yeah, both are from rolling 20mph) from a dead stop i put it in 1 and powerbrake it at 2600 then let off.

[igs]

When you shift manually there is a delay between when you put in a gear and the computer recognizes it's there. In order to effectively shift manually you have to anticipate when you will want to shift.

[91SilverTalonTSI]

I tried both ways at the track. My times were slower when I manually shifted but, every car is different. I tried everything from shifting at redline to shifting aroun 6k and when the car shifted on its own, I always had better e.t.'s. My manually shifted runs would be 1-1.5 seconds higher then the tcu shifted runs.

[sonnguyen]

ok, yeah, like sometimes when im out on the street or something and ill leave it at 2 and have kinda high rpms (2-4000) and then like something lines up at me and i just gun it. well it doesnt feel as hard of a pull as if i were to leave it for the comp to shift it. but the thing is. how do you launch leaving it in drive? (like launch kinda hard but still have the comp shift it. aka power braking)

[boostedcustomz]

Originally posted by sonnguyen
ok, yeah, like sometimes when im out on the street or something and ill leave it at 2 and have kinda high rpms (2-4000) and then like something lines up at me and i just gun it. well it doesnt feel as hard of a pull as if i were to leave it for the comp to shift it. but the thing is. how do you launch leaving it in drive? (like launch kinda hard but still have the comp shift it. aka power braking)

the reason it doesnt feel like its pulling hard is because the tranny isnt downshifting. that pull you feel when you gun it in drive at say 60mph is just the tranny downshifting.

[Blue97GST]

why the hell would you shift the auto manually while racing? If you floor it in drive its gonna shift at redline anyway which is what you wanted to do in the first place. The only reason to play with the gear selector while driving in an auto is to feel useful or pretend you got stick. There is no performance increase. Just brake torque it in drive and let the computer do what it's designed to do. ---my .02

[91SilverTalonTSI]

Actually, It doesn't shift at redline in any gear. 1st shifts at 6100 2nd shifts around 6300. This is also in a car with no shift kit or end clutch upgrade.

[JaJay721]

My car shifts are redline with no shift kit or add on shifting mechanisms. Every car is different though.

[Geo]

I have logged my car's timming when shifting both ways. The only advantage when shifting manually is that the ECU doesn't pull timming. Before the shift kit install I could grab rubber on the up shift. I couldn't do that with it in drive before. You should be faster manually shifting the car but you have to hit the power curve just right to be. The draw back is that it reeks havoc on your trans.

[Jehu]

Actually, in addition to gearing, one reason that the car accelerates better when it down shifts is that the extra speed differential during the shift makes use of your TC's torque multiplication ability. That's why when you accelerate in 2, and the computer doesn't downshift, feels slower than when you are in drive, at the same speed, and the computer downshifts to 2.

[igs]

Originally posted by JaJay721
My car shifts are redline with no shift kit or add on shifting mechanisms. Every car is different though.

Same here.

[igs]

Originally posted by Blue97GST
The only reason to play with the gear selector while driving in an auto is to feel useful or pretend you got stick.

Um, no..... The computer always wants to shift to the highest gear possible, so when you're going 15 mph in traffic or coming out of a turn you're pulling in 4th gear at about 1k rpms. Not only is that bad for the engine but you have no power so grandma in the minivan will be accelerating faster than you.

[boostedcustomz]

Originally posted by igs


Um, no..... The computer always wants to shift to the highest gear possible, so when you're going 15 mph in traffic or coming out of a turn you're pulling in 4th gear at about 1k rpms. Not only is that bad for the engine but you have no power so grandma in the minivan will be accelerating faster than you.

oh so i guess grandma drives a 5 speed minivan? oh and i dont think the engine could even accelerate in 4th at 15mph.

[igs]

Originally posted by boostedcustomz


oh so i guess grandma drives a 5 speed minivan?

Minivan = V6
DSM = 4 banger


Originally posted by boostedcustomz

oh and i dont think the engine could even accelerate in 4th at 15mph.

Exactly.

[nano]

Originally posted by igs


Um, no..... The computer always wants to shift to the highest gear possible, so when you're going 15 mph in traffic or coming out of a turn you're pulling in 4th gear at about 1k rpms. Not only is that bad for the engine but you have no power so grandma in the minivan will be accelerating faster than you.

What do you mean? The computer will imidiately downshift to first at 15mph if you press on the gas. Plus it never even gets in fourth at 15mph.

[igs]

Originally posted by nano


What do you mean? The computer will imidiately downshift to first at 15mph if you press on the gas. Plus it never even gets in fourth at 15mph.

Ok maybe 15 was a bad example. If you cruise at 25 you will definitely be in 4th. Step on the gas 1/2 way and there will be a delay before it downshifts. Step on it full throttle and it will downshift twice. But as soon as you let up the gas it will upshift all the way back to 4th. Step on the gas again and it will downshift again, again with a delay. That's no way to drive. If you let the computer control it it's impossible to hold a 3, 4, 5, or 6k cruise which is what you want for instant throttle response. I shouldn't need to explain this because anyone who drives an automatic knows this it how it behaves, that's why they came out with sportshift transmissions. :rudolph:

[Jehu]

Uhhh...that's why it's recommended that OD stays off under 55mph. I don't know about you, but if I go WOT at 25 mph, there's maybe 1/2 to 1 second delay, then the car absolutely SQUIRTS forward :). OD off ofcourse.

[nano]

Originally posted by igs


Ok maybe 15 was a bad example. If you cruise at 25 you will definitely be in 4th. Step on the gas 1/2 way and there will be a delay before it downshifts. Step on it full throttle and it will downshift twice. But as soon as you let up the gas it will upshift all the way back to 4th. Step on the gas again and it will downshift again, again with a delay. That's no way to drive. If you let the computer control it it's impossible to hold a 3, 4, 5, or 6k cruise which is what you want for instant throttle response. I shouldn't need to explain this because anyone who drives an automatic knows this it how it behaves, that's why they came out with sportshift transmissions. :rudolph:

Exactly... That makes more since. That's also why I drive with OD off most of the time.

[Asmodeus]

I tried both, just tromping on the gas, brake torqueing, and then "manually" shifting... the brake torque and the manual shift times were within thousands of a second. So here's the dilly... you want your car to go faster, your going to need to DO something to it, to MAKE it faster. I also noticed after adding an intake and exhaust... its even slower in 2. ALSO why the HELL would you put it in 1 or L? Are you pulling a trailer? Are you stuck in snow? Trying to go up K2 with a cow in your trunk? NO... your not. Put it in drive, brake torque... find a good launch rpm.... and let the kickdown do its job!!! Want your tranny to shift better? Get a kit. Thats the only way its going to shift faster. If you wanna play with a stick, try the one in your lap, just dont rear end anyone!:D

[sonnguyen]

well look at this... i experimented with brake torqueing it in both D and 1. and it lauches SO much better in 1. i usually dont downshift ever to 1 unless im brake torqueing. NEVER while im driving. (well i did it once for the f*ck of it. i was going like 15 and did it next to some fart cannon civic and it made it sound like a standard... lol just being stupid)

anyone else think that brake torqueing has better results in if you leave it in 1 rather than D doing it.

when i do do it, i just automatically shift up to D i dont even mess with 2 cuz i know the comp will do it. and it wont shift immediately to 2 nor d if im like fully throttling it.

[JaJay721]

How much damage does power breaking do to your car?

[Boostin'X']

I shift into second for engine breaking purposes. This doesn't cause any harm to the tranny because the ecu does it anyways at a set speed or whatever. but never into first.

[sonnguyen]

"engine breaking" ... power braking i take it you mean? well does it have the same effects if you power brake it in 2 than in 1?

[nano]

Originally posted by sonnguyen
well look at this... i experimented with brake torqueing it in both D and 1. and it lauches SO much better in 1. i usually dont downshift ever to 1 unless im brake torqueing. NEVER while im driving. (well i did it once for the f*ck of it. i was going like 15 and did it next to some fart cannon civic and it made it sound like a standard... lol just being stupid)

anyone else think that brake torqueing has better results in if you leave it in 1 rather than D doing it.

when i do do it, i just automatically shift up to D i dont even mess with 2 cuz i know the comp will do it. and it wont shift immediately to 2 nor d if im like fully throttling it.

Is your car stock? Cause if it is it explains a lot. It's like the car refuses to power brake. I know that just a MBC helped the car to powerbrake much better. I assume the ecu dosen't want to make boost down low when it's using the stock boost solenoid.

[Asmodeus]

I actually went and test drove a TSI just to prove my point.... lol.
~Boostin X meant by shifting into a lower gear to slow the car down... like you were jus' doin 120, been riding the breaks to death, they're fading, trying not to hit this BMW in front of you, oh shit! downshift, hit the breaks a lil harder... ahhhh thats better.~
OK I tried your launch from 1... lmfao are you smokin crack?! I swear it almost stalled.... it looked like it moved 6 inches! Then I was like WTF threw it in drive and SLAMMED the hammer down... and hey guess what... it took off like a bat outta hell! This is coming from a 91' TSI auto... and I'll tell you what that car still rocks! I ate 2 civics, and a probe (lol, gawd that was funny!) in the half hour I drove it. I tried launching from 2 as well... still not as fast as drive. Luckily some of these cars were so slow I had time to shift and still go blaring past! I tell you gentleman... your wasting your time shifting!

[igs]

Originally posted by Asmodeus
I tell you gentleman... your wasting your time shifting!

If you're drag racing, yes. I was talking about driving on the street or track.

[sonnguyen]

wait wait. a 91 TSI? well arent teh autos in the 1g different from the autos in 2g? i SWEAR i can only spin if i powerbrake it in 1. i tried and tried in D but damnit, it wont spin! i have no idea what youre talking about how it almost stalled or w/e, that has never happened to me. yes im stock. completely.

i havent tried PB in 2 yet.. but i SWEAR UP AND DOWN TO YOU that i can only spin in 1.

[Boostin'X']

power breaking in 1 is no different than drive because when you are stopped the ecu puts the car into "1". From what I hear, "2" is debatable because I heard you get more torque launching in 2 but i don't know i just launch in drive.

[Blue97GST]

Why the f*ck would anyone launch a car in 2nd gear?

[Asmodeus]

Are you trying to spin? Why? Lose traction and go slower? All I'm saying that is if you just put in drive and brake torque it, it should launch well, without you trying to tell it what to do. When you launch from LOW or 1, 0 to 25-30 it just feels like its trying way to hard to be going as fast as it is. Then you shift to second and its the same feeling... but you're not really going any faster than you would be in Drive? Im not making fun of anyone... if you have an auto you've all tried it. Dont lie. :D But in truth, I dont believe its going to help you. Thats all I was saying.
~sonnguyen, it didnt stall but it only moved about 6 inches... like it was being powered by a 5Hp lawn mower engine... it didnt like jump and take off... it just kinda shrugged and went unh uh, not doing that... I snapped it into drive and slammed the pedal thru the floor and off I went.~
~Blue97GST, we are speaking of an auto tranny, JIC you thought I meant manual.~

[sonnguyen]

well i know where you're getting at. but what im trying to prove is not that D is stronger or faster than low. even if it is, alright, im saying that it isnt the same feeling. as in MY case, if i power torque it in LOW i will spin if i let it go high enough. not my intention though, BUT if i power torque it in drive to the exact same RPMs, it will not do that same. and it doesnt seem weak like bluegst said. well my car just might be different, i dunno.

and another question, for some reason, when i floor it, yes it does downshift and go, but it just doesnt seem to have the same ol pull back as it use to... maybe spark plugs? i dunno, it still hauls, but it just doesnt seem to be peppy as it use to be. anyone with suggsetions?

[nano]

I don't know why some of you have strange behaving cars. But weather I launch in D or L it's the same thing. Either way when you launch it's in 1st gear. Nothing changes mechanically between 1st and L. Even when I launch in D I have pulled 1.81 60' on the stock TC. And a normal launch in D with out power brakind is always going to be slower, infact very slow. ALso if you powerbrake for way too long the ECU starts to pull timming causing the car to bog off the line. That's not good since you're probably over doing it and causing the tranny to heat up way to much. I think an upgraded BOV and a MBC should fix most slugish launching isues.

[Geo]

Nano is that now or before the shift kit? My car was a slug with out the shift kit and end clutchs. You guys are talking about delay in down shifting I thought I could get out and kick the car in a lower gear before the shift kit. I also noticed that the more mods I put on the car the higher the car wanted to shift. I don't know if that was the computer setting it self or what. I also did a couple of data logs with the computer shifting and manual shifting. The only difference is that the timming doen't get pulled. I have seen the when the computer controlls the shifting it would go to 12 degree timming. When I shift the car it would stay around 18-20 degrees. But alass I have not been able to drive my car since april. I have been sturck driving a f150 in line 6 talk about a slug.

[doug]

The one time I took my car to the track (1/8 mile...:mad: ) I would consistently get slightly better times manually shifting. Only a tenth or so, but it was that way every time. I got in about 10 runs-- about half and half between shifting manually and not.

[Asmodeus]

I think this needs to be the true goal of the convo;
find out if it damages your transaxle to manually shift it.
Because everyone is having different experiences with this.
And if you say you ran a faster time manually shifting, I'm not saying your lying just cause I didn't.
So... I'd say if you think you're faster shifting, I'd find out if you are doing damage...
If not, then I say choose whatever you think works best in your car.
If it does, (do damage) I'd recommend coughin up the dough for the shift kit.
Just my $.02