Auto Transmission woes. HELP PLS?!?

[16G TSi]

I just got done reading about 100 threads that discuss many of the exact same problems my car is exhibiting (but mine seems to be a mixture of ALL the described problems).

Three weeks ago, I was driving and could hear a slight whining noise coming from the transmission area. eventually, the car would not move in any forward or reverse gears. I found that by shutting the car off, letting the ECU reset would let the car work again for 2-3 more minutes, then would stop working again, in any gear. SO, I changed the fluid and the filter, and to my suprise, it seemed FINE, shifted like new. It wasnt slipping, if it were slipping it would still move somewhat with throttle... this was like it was in neutral in all forward/reverse gears.


Yesterday, driving home from work it started acting up again. So, I pulled the pan down again, and this time decided to take out the valve body, and clean it, then reassemble. this seemed to fix what I described above, drove like new, but 30 minutes into a test drive it started acting up AGAIN, but this time different symptoms.

1. The car seems to only have 1st/3/OD gears when it is working.
2. Sometimes, coming to a stop, the car will jerk and die like stopping in a 5 speed car in 5th gear without pushing in the clutch. When this happens, you have to put it in neutral or park to avoid stalling. Then when trying to get moving again, shifting in to any forward gear, the car will die, like its trying to start off in 4th gear. You have to get the revs up to like 5000rpm and push it back into drive to get it moving again (produces nice burnout in my fwd car, but is undesireable ;)).
3. Other times it just stays in 4th, but stops and starts off OK from a stop. Its quite sluggish until say 40mph though. OD still works. So its effectively a 2 speed, drive and overdrive.


I guess its possible I put the soleniods in the wrong place, but I doubt it since it drove fine for 30 minutes. This tranny does have the lock up converter.


Any suggestions/comments appreciated. I have a fellow with alll the parts to do a 5speed swap(for 600 bucks), but funds are short and I'd rather find a way to fix the auto, cheap if possible.

Thanks!
Jason

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by 16G TSi

I guess its possible I put the soleniods in the wrong place, but I doubt it since it drove fine for 30 minutes.


That or the solenoids are damaged...:(

[16G TSi]

Originally posted by Blackboost



That or the solenoids are damaged...:(

thats kinda what I was thinking. Do you know of a way to test'em (or a faq that shows how?).


thanks for your reply!

Jason

[Blackboost]

Nope, I don't :(

Try contacting fellow member tsi91at . Perhaps he knows how...;)

[16G TSi]

Originally posted by Blackboost
Nope, I don't :(

Try contacting fellow member tsi91at . Perhaps he knows how...;)


Well crap. He's not talking. Any other suggestions? I just bought a house and am broke as fug, but if I dont get that auto fixed (myself), I'm going to have to swap in a 5 speed (I have someone willing to sell the stuff to do the swap for $600, cheaper than rebuilding the auto).


any help greatly appreciated!

[SportStreetRace]

My auto tranny I just dropped was doing the same exact thing. My tranny makes this spooling/whining noise, almost sounds like a bootleg turbo... haha... when I stop, it disengages, almost like I pushed a magical clutch pedal in, the only way for the tranny to re-engage is to rev it up passed 3 grand, sometimes 4. When it's rolling I have to shift into Low gear, when it hits 30mph, I havr to shift into 2nd, then at 70 I have to shift into 3rd and after that put in drive. A few times it would stop working all together and I'd have to restart the car. Funny thing is, It might just be the actual tranny computer that's faulty.


One thing I do know is that my seal/gasket was leaking tranny fluid and at the same time was burning it, i'd check the fluid, it'd be black, I mean it looked like 90,000 mile oil with deposits and everything. To me, forget rebuilding the auto, I purchased a 5 speed and I'm in the process of finding my last parts to do the swap. If you did your swap already, let me know how it turned out for you, I have some of the stuff in, I already put the pedals in, that was a project and a half.

[tsi91at]

Im not talking because I lost my hard drive, pics for future VFAQS and a bunch of mail. So if you emailed me it;s gone. Not much time lately.


Check these pics.

http://www.plymouthlaser.com/alto/vb_solenoid_ohms.jpg

http://www.plymouthlaser.com/alto/terminalat.jpg

Second link: Same as pulling ECU codes (www.vfaq.com) . Try this: Hook positive lead to pin6 and neg lead to pin12. Check for pulses and see if the TCU has anything stored.

These are some pics i am going to add to the site. Feel free to look in the folder http://www.plymouthlaser.com/alto/ for anything else.

Charles
http://www.plymouthlaser.com

[tsi91at]

I can say this since I have a 5 speed.

My 1993 5 speed AWD Has 85K and the 1991 FWD AT has 76K. THe AT has the same tranny in it never rebuilt (Translab and Alto Kit at 40K only, fluid and filter) and the 1993 is now needing it's third transmission pull out and fix (This time its a Synchro). I use the AT to drive everyday and the 5 speed for racing and weekends (Obviously better launches). The 5 speeds are not the greatest in the world. Something to consider before wanting to swap.

Another thing: Go to DSM trader and search "parts wanted". Put in 5 speed and see what you come up with.

Yes, I am hard on the AT, after all it is a Talon.

I figured get both :D

Charles
http://www.plymouthlaser.com

[16G TSi]

does the problems I explain sound like they're solenoid related or maybe TCU?

[tsi91at]

Are you getting a Check Engine Light???

Did you try pulling the TCU and ECU codes as described in the previous post?? Write down the pulses. For EX: Normal is s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s etc. Search vfaq for the procedure for the ECU and use that. If you get long pulse, pauses so on. Write them down and I can look it up.

I cannot say what it is (as can no one else). So to skip conjecture, try the code pulling. If that produces nothing lets go from there.

Meanwhile, you can look around the tranny for broken loose wires and connectors. The Square connector or round depending on year. Four wires. They go to the Solenoids. I would check that one out.

We want to eliminate that before going into the trany or you paying someone to "fix it".

Charles
http://www.plymouthlaser.com

[jchiodi]

You said that you have someone that will do the swap for $600.00?

In Cincy? Where?

I think my daughter's auto trans is going south and I trying to figure the best way to go?

Thanks for any info.

jc

[BoostedTSi]

Originally posted by tsi91at


Second link: Same as pulling ECU codes (www.vfaq.com) . Try this: Hook positive lead to pin6 and neg lead to pin12. Check for pulses and see if the TCU has anything stored.



I don't know about 1g Auto tranny's but, it should be pin #4 and pin #6 for a 2g Auto tranny. I agree, you should try to pull the codes first and then go from there. Stick a voltage meter in pin #4 and #6. There is a way to test the solenoid but try to pull a code first. If you can pull a code just let me know cause I have the 95 Tsi manual. Good luck.

[16G TSi]

OK, I will pull some codes this evening. thanks again to everyone who has replied, its greatly appreciated.

I've had a CEL for the last 6 mos. due to a custom 3" exh. I built and didnt reinstall the after-cat o2 sensor.
One question, do I pull the codes with a voltimeter (if so, HOW?), OR do I have to get a code reader for a mitsubishi? I see that a buzzer is used for the 1G to tell short or long, but how does the s - l sequences relate to codes?




jchiodi: I found the parts to do the install for $600. I wish I knew someone to do the swap and provide the parts for $600!!! I hope to fix my auto. Since I've had the VB apart soo many times now, i'd feel comfortable doing the shift kit install and the end clutches. If I get mine fixed, I'll turn you on to the fellow selling the parts, if you'd like.

[BoostedTSi]

Originally posted by 16G TSi
OK, I will pull some codes this evening. thanks again to everyone who has replied, its greatly appreciated.

I've had a CEL for the last 6 mos. due to a custom 3" exh. I built and didnt reinstall the after-cat o2 sensor.
One question, do I pull the codes with a voltimeter (if so, HOW?), OR do I have to get a code reader for a mitsubishi? I see that a buzzer is used for the 1G to tell short or long, but how does the s - l sequences relate to codes?



The way you pull the codes with the volt meter is:

1) Place the voltmeter in pin #4 and #6.
2) Turn the key to the ON position (or ACC I forgot.)
3) The voltmeter will move from 0 volts to like 12 volts. If it stays on 12 volts for a few seconds that means 10. If it moves for one second that means 1. For example, if the voltmeter gives you six long and one short that means your getting code 61.

Hope that helps.

[16G TSi]

Originally posted by BoostedTSi


The way you pull the codes with the volt meter is:

1) Place the voltmeter in pin #4 and #6.
2) Turn the key to the ON position (or ACC I forgot.)
3) The voltmeter will move from 0 volts to like 12 volts. If it stays on 12 volts for a few seconds that means 10. If it moves for one second that means 1. For example, if the voltmeter gives you six long and one short that means your getting code 61.

Hope that helps.

Yeah, that helps alot, thanks! One thing though, looking at the faq on dsm.org, it looks like the 2G codes are three digits!

So, for the solenoids, the code is: P0783

Does that mean its going to go long for 78 pulses and then three short? that doesnt seem right, is it?

[Matts95GSX]

I got a 95 auto gsx and I am having the exact same problems that youve described. I have taken it to several shops and none of them have been able to figure out whats wrong. If I had any money I would just put a new tranny in but I don't. Someone said you are up in Cincy, Im in Columbus so if you find some place here in Ohio that knows whats going on, please tell me. Thanks.

Matt

[BoostedTSi]

I three digit codes are only for the engine I think. For the tranny they are only 2 digits. At least thats what it shows in the service manual.

[tsi91at]

Okay, I am a 1G guy so I may be wrong.........

BoostedTSI is correct in his posts.

PINS:

If you have a 12 PIN NON-OBD-II Plug under the dash. use pins 6 and 12. (1990-1995??)

If you have a 16 PIN OBD-II Plug use 6 and 4. (1996-UP??)

Now, I believe the OBD-II did not go into our cars until 1996. SO you may have the first.

If someone can find out 100% and let me know, I will post it as a VFAQ. A diagram of the plugs would be great as well. I have the diagram drawn up for the 1G.

This would enable us to bypass all this posting and share the info quickly. My email is on the web site.

Now The Codes:

Long pulses are 10s Short pulses are 1's EX: L-L-S-S= Code 22 (Short-circuited Servo)

My ATSG guide shows NO codes in the 70's.
(Solenoid fault codes are in the 40s) EX: L-L-L-L-S = Code 41 (Open-Circuited Shift COntrol SOlenoid valve A).

Charles
http://www.plymouthlaser.com

[BoostedTSi]

Originally posted by tsi91at
Okay, I am a 1G guy so I may be wrong.........

BoostedTSI is correct in his posts.

PINS:

If you have a 12 PIN NON-OBD-II Plug under the dash. use pins 6 and 12. (1990-1995??)

If you have a 16 PIN OBD-II Plug use 6 and 4. (1996-UP??)

Now, I believe the OBD-II did not go into our cars until 1996. SO you may have the first.

If someone can find out 100% and let me know, I will post it as a VFAQ. A diagram of the plugs would be great as well. I have the diagram drawn up for the 1G.

This would enable us to bypass all this posting and share the info quickly. My email is on the web site.

Now The Codes:

Long pulses are 10s Short pulses are 1's EX: L-L-S-S= Code 22 (Short-circuited Servo)

My ATSG guide shows NO codes in the 70's.
(Solenoid fault codes are in the 40s) EX: L-L-L-L-S = Code 41 (Open-Circuited Shift COntrol SOlenoid valve A).

Charles
http://www.plymouthlaser.com

The OBD-II went into the 2g in 95. My car has OBD II and it was built in April of 95. Here is the diagram for an OBD II plug which is in our 2g.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid33/p99617e5d6f9c0e1d0441e559e453d660/fd3c73a5.gif.orig.gif

I hope is shows. If not, just go to www.obdii.com .

[tsi91at]

Ahhhh,

Thank you very much.

I hate to take an image from another web page, but it is for a good cause. :D

I will work on getting a web page together with the TCU info and post when I complete. Then I will send it to Tom for the VFAQ page.

I am trying to get a used TCU for the CAPS VFAQ as well (They have the same leaky cap probs as the ECU). Basically, when all is said and done I hope to have a lot of AT info (fluid, troubleshooting, etc..).

Charles
http://www.plymouthlaser.com

[DSMNightmare]

OBDII is in the 95s also. I have a 95 and I have to use the OBDII pocket logger.

[InvaderGST]

Hey I have the exact same problem in my 95 GS-T auto. Encountering the exact same problem. When I first turn on the car I can get going for a minute then totally loses gear and the only way to get it going is to turn it off and back on. And this happens to be a tranny that I had just rebuilt with some performance clutches. Drove it for around 2 days after the rebirth of the tranny. Then it just took a dump. So I figured no way it can be killed after two days, so I spent $250 for some brand new solenoids. Was really happy as it worked...... 35 miles later the smae problem occurred. Back to same problem. Dropped tranny. Opened up the tranny. I see a little burnage and smell some burnt oil. Replaced all clutches, got new seals. Everything.... Put it back together. Tranny pump replaced. You name it it has been swapped. Still nothing. Still same damn thing. Only thing I have yet to possibly try is swapping TCU's and swapping back to my stock torque converter. It has a Level 10 High stall. Not sure if they sent me a bunk one or not? If I went through all this work and it was the TC the whole time I am gonna throw it through their window as I just got it from them. If anyone has any suggestions let me know. I am totally going out of my mind here. It's crazy that the people with all the same problems on here are all 95's...... Anybody out there who has fixed this problem email me: Invadergst@aol.com.

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by InvaderGST
If I went through all this work and it was the TC the whole time I am gonna throw it through their window as I just got it from them.

ROFLMAO!!!:D
That sounds funny indeed!!

Try swapping the TCU with a known working one.;)

[eagletalonawd]

I just got around to reading this thread. My car does the same thing as what the last guy said his does. I am kinda leaning towards the TC. However, I did pull my TCU and the only unusual thing that I found was on the back side of the board there were a few spots that kinda looked like corosion or acid. Kinda had some blackness to it. I was able to scratch it off with my fingernail for the most part. The component on the other side looked to be a transistor? It was a small black D-shaped thing. The caps looked good from what I could see. ??? When I pulled the pan back in JUNE I could find no major metal. Just a small ammount on the magnets. (It had been rebuilt 10k miles ago) I will say it again, I wish I had a DAMN digital camera. I just cant get myself to spend the money on one.

I have yet to decide what to do with my car, but rolling it out of the garage the other day felt good. Even thought it looks like it has been stripped down and does not run. :)

[vegabass15]

check the fluid, make sure its not to full I had a similar problem in a different car and it ended up theat there was too much fluid in there

[InvaderGST]

I checked the TCU and it looked clean. If it were the TCU it would default to 3rd gear. But like I said before it will just die after a few minutes. I can first turn the key and get going, but after a few minutes you cannot get into any gear. Yesterday I dropped the pan and replaced the filter with new tranny fluid. Same damn problem. A tranny guy said it would have to be pressure tested. That is the last resort or the TC is bad. There is no other expanation as I already replaced the solenoids. Getting really irriated at this point.

[nano]

Could it be possible that the TCU just acts up but dosen't fully die and sends bogus signals to the solenoids? Cause it sounds like the tranny just shifts eraticlly or locks up the TC ramdomly.

On my first tranny the pump granaded it self filled the tranny with metal chunks and ran low on fluid by two quarts yet it still drove perfectly. It just kept moving no matter what happened. I really doubt it's physical tranny damage.
Ones one of my solenoid cables broke and it would ramdomly connect again but it would cause the car to want to lock up ramdomly and would loose 1st and 2nd or 4th and have 2nd and 3rd instead sometimes. It sounds like it could be electrical. I'd swap the TCU just to make sure. You've checked everything else so It's very likely it's the TCU.

[nano]

Anyone figured what causes this? I started getting the same symptoms on my brand new 6000mile old tranny. It runs for a few minutes then dies. WTF?

[InvaderGST]

No I gave up. It's sitting in my garage until next season.

[nano]

I'm starting to think it might be a TCU issue but I'm not sure. It's a brand new tranny and it shifts fine while it's cold. THere dosen't seem to be any bad physical damage. And it happned over night out of the blue. What's really strange is that it seems real common problem.

On my original tranny I powered braked it and raced it daily and had 100+ runs at the track in one year. I would spin roadys on the lot and even when the pump started dieng and spewed metall chunks all over the tranny it shifted great. It shifted perfect for 54k miles untill the damm mechanic rebuilt it. So I know this trannys can be tough, and my old one kept running untill it literaly froze and blew up just after the rebuild.

In the past all my missshifting problems where always related to me messing with things, solenoid cables and valve body problems, that where fixed with a good VB rebuild.
This just dosen't make since to me unless it's the TCU. SPecially in a brand new Tranny. HOw many miles do you all have? I have 61k miles right now.