how to launch [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

sonnguyen

10-06-2002, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by igs
Mash the brake all the way down. Then mash the accelerator all the way down. Once your RPMs stop rising let go of the brake (should be a few seconds). Launching will probably wear out your ATF real soon.

ATF? sorry im kinda new too.. i dont know all the acronyms..

well at stock level, and i only powertorque to like 2500 IF i do powertorque it (not too often at all) would that cause excessive wear, or is that not too bad? hard on the tranny? or the engine?

Blackboost

10-07-2002, 04:12 AM

I believe that ATF means "Automatic Transmission Fluid"....:confused:

fastplant

10-08-2002, 03:27 PM

Put the car in 1st and turn the overdrive off. I usually hold the brake down and step on the gas until about 3k rpms. Then let go and shift up at about 6k each time. That seems to work for me. I don't know a whole lot about transmissions, but I wouldn't slam on the gas while on the brake and let the rpms scream, that would only seem to do damage.

aaronsbig16g

10-09-2002, 02:47 AM

I brake torque and launch in 1st and shift through gears, but I think I'm fucking up my tranny. Sometimes my tranny doesnt shift for a while or when I shift into gear it shifts really hard. New tranny fluid:confused:

zola84

10-09-2002, 07:43 AM

I've been told numerious times to launch or brake torque in second with overdrive off. You launch, once it comes time for third gear, push the knob forward and done. Forget about O/D. That is how I scored my best E/T at least.

turbotalon95

10-09-2002, 09:37 AM

mytalon

10-09-2002, 10:06 AM

At what speed do you turn your O/D back on. At high speeds it is bad for it to be off isn't it? My mom blew the engine in her car as did a friend because they were driving highway speeds with it off. :dunno:

zola84

10-09-2002, 11:43 AM

best e/t was 14.9 , but without downpipe, test pipe, and intake. Hoping of 14.7 or 14.6 now. Going to the track this weekend.

doug

10-09-2002, 03:38 PM

So, just to clarify, do you leave the O/D off during 1/4 mile runs? I've only done 1/8 mile thus far and it wasn't an issue.

zola84

10-09-2002, 04:51 PM

definitly off. No O/D. Unless you have very high trap speeds, which I doubt.

turbotalon95

10-09-2002, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by zola84
best e/t was 14.9 , but without downpipe, test pipe, and intake. Hoping of 14.7 or 14.6 now. Going to the track this weekend.

yeah I think that with those extra mods 14.6 should definitely be possible. Last time I went to the track, I ran 14.60 and had 2 boost leaks and a shitty 2.35 60'.

sonnguyen

10-09-2002, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by zola84
I've been told numerious times to launch or brake torque in second with overdrive off. You launch, once it comes time for third gear, push the knob forward and done. Forget about O/D. That is how I scored my best E/T at least.

hm, i think i might try to powertorque it in 2. is it still in 1 gear though? cuz on my car it's werid... i get more power in 1 than in D (if powertorqued) but i have yet to try 2.

ACTUALLY. i raced a guy once with a TSI FWD stock manual though, and from a dead stop (I BEAT HIM GET THAT) it was because he spun. i beat him by a good 2.5+ cars, and he said that he got a 12.9 in 1000ft. (1/8?) and he said he even spun too, so maybe i would do better? :D i dunno, maybe it was a bad run too... i have not tried going to the track yet.

HERES A TECHNIQUE I USE SOMETIMES:

powertorque it in 1, launch at 2800, no spin but no :D and then once it reaches 5500 RPMS shift UP TO DRIVE fast. it will delay for a sec and shift a 6500 of course, then it will go to 2 (in D) then it will shift to d by itself, that eliminates that manually shifting up part, WITH the powertorqueing in 1.

good idea?

zola84

10-09-2002, 11:00 PM

What I found out after numerious runs is that, when you brake torque in 1st and upshift to 2nd, it takes a while for it to shift (that second you were talking about), anyhow, the point is for you to shift right at red line, when you do 1st to 2nd it usually jumps above red and you don't want to do that (it doesnt always take a second, sometimes it takes longer). I brake torque in 2nd just because of that mostly. Thing is, it takes 1st gear all the way to the red (6300 rpm to be exact) and woosh, second kicks in by itself. Take it to 6400rpm and wooosh third manually.

I will continue to experiment with that, but the difference between my launch with O/D off and D and manually shifting in 2 with O/D off is only .2 . In other words, my best e/t "D" launch with O/D off is 15.11, my run from second and o/d off was 14.987 to be exact. So, see, not that much difference. This weekend I am going to the track, and if anyone is still interested, I will give you different times for different launching techniques.

I am still debating if one way is better than the other, because the runs were so close, my 60' times were both 2.2, one 2.21 the other 2.29, r/t .519 and 6.08. One thing you want to do when you race tho, is turn o/d off. You don't want it to shift to D too early. Use up all of that third gear. When you think its time o/d to be turned on (hasnt happened to me yet when racing) simply press the button.

I want to see some input by some of our faster a/t dsms that dont have aftermarket torque converters or shift kits, see what they've discovered.

Blackboost

10-10-2002, 12:21 AM

I am going to make this one a sticky for the moment!!!;)

Keep up the excellent info guys, but also stay on topic...:D

ippkiss

10-10-2002, 09:06 PM

I just turn off o/d, and power break it. On a good cold night I can just stop on the breaks, and the gas count to five(the car will jump right to 3500rpms and start pulling through the brakes) let off the brake and hold on. I've found that if the trany is hot(ie repated launching with out some time to cool down) that It won't launch for crap. I've also found that anything over about 4 seconds on my car, and it pulls timing. past 6 and timing is down to 0, or negative.

sonnguyen

10-10-2002, 11:22 PM

"pulls timing" -- sorry, what is timing exactly? and how do you know if your timing is off? -thanks

well for me, ive raised my rpms well over 3000rpms while EXTREMELY pressed down on the brake, and it didnt start to pull through, the highest ive been i believe is 3500. and all i did was spin, i didnt get much traction at all and then it bogged :( i launch it at about (AT MOST) 2800, that's when i get awesome traction while the manual car is spinning, im gone. (but it might really depend on your tires too so.. i have some michellein tires or something)

doug

10-11-2002, 10:27 AM

I'm still learning this stuff too, but I believe they're talking about ignition timing-- here's a good article about it:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm

ippkiss

10-11-2002, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by sonnguyen
"pulls timing" -- sorry, what is timing exactly? and how do you know if your timing is off? -thanks

well for me, ive raised my rpms well over 3000rpms while EXTREMELY pressed down on the brake, and it didnt start to pull through, the highest ive been i believe is 3500. and all i did was spin, i didnt get much traction at all and then it bogged :( i launch it at about (AT MOST) 2800, that's when i get awesome traction while the manual car is spinning, im gone. (but it might really depend on your tires too so.. i have some michellein tires or something)

I mean ignition timing. Basicly the more advance you get in igniton timing, the more power you make(to a certin point). I use a pocket logger to see what my igniton timing is.

ApexiGSX

10-15-2002, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by zola84
definitly off. No O/D. Unless you have very high trap speeds, which I doubt.

i beg to differ...it really doesnt matter, when your flooring it, your flooring it, regardless of od being on or off, from a stand still, go 1/4 with od off, then do it again with od on, there will be 0 difference, your car does not use the overdrive gear unless your crusing along, its used to save gas and less strain on the engine..but when your at WOT, it makes 0 difference.

ippkiss

10-15-2002, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by ApexiGSX

i beg to differ...it really doesnt matter, when your flooring it, your flooring it, regardless of od being on or off, from a stand still, go 1/4 with od off, then do it again with od on, there will be 0 difference, your car does not use the overdrive gear unless your crusing along, its used to save gas and less strain on the engine..but when your at WOT, it makes 0 difference.

the thing is, the TCU is programed to stay in each gear longer if you have the od off(I don't know if it realy does, but it suposta do that). I belive some people have actualy tried it and found a difference.

zola84

10-16-2002, 09:55 AM

yeah, it will shift to "D" while still in the 1/4 run if ON, with o/d off I push mine all the way through 3rd gear.

Try flooring it with o/d off and take it to the max (meaing rpm limit), than try do the same with o/d on and you will see it wont take 3rd to the max, duh, aint no rocket science if you think about it :D I bet you'll shift somewhere around 5500 rpm if od is on, maybe sooner ?

I dunno about 2nd if overdrive is on or off.

Anyhooo, I couldnt go to the dragstrip the past weekend, hopefully this week and I'll post some results for you o/d on/off questioneers. :)

By the way, I've got a buddy who just ran 13.1 @ 105mph with his Automatic GS-T, maybe I should invite him to this forum so he could share his secrets.

doug

10-16-2002, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by zola84
By the way, I've got a buddy who just ran 13.1 @ 105mph with his Automatic GS-T, maybe I should invite him to this forum so he could share his secrets.

Yeah, that would be cool. The more people that can share, the better. I appreciate you relaying your experiences as well.

zola84

10-16-2002, 10:43 PM

I just came back from the track and here are the results of my experiments, total 11 runs (track was near empty, maybe 20 cars total)

My best run is 14.671 @ 95.33 mph. Turn O/D off, Put it in second. Brake Troque to 2700 rpm. (did three runs)

With just O/D off and stick in "D" I was doing steady runs between 14.7 - 14.8. (did six runs)

With O/D on and in "D" (did two runs) steady 14.9 .

Make your own conclusions.

(mods listed in signature)

igs

10-19-2002, 03:40 PM

Well, I do know that with OD "on" downshifts take a full second longer.

ProDodgeBall

11-07-2002, 02:55 PM

Has anyone ever thought about using Nitrous right off the line, by doing a normal(or maybe a slightly lower rpm) brake torque, then activating the NOS the same moment you release the brake? I'm not talking about spraying the whole run, but cutting the juice when full boost is reached-strictly to improve our holeshot. Obviously this would only be an option for AWD racers, but I've been wondering if that would be an easy solution to make up for the long, slow first gear of my A/T.

doug

11-07-2002, 05:12 PM

I believe that's how Russ Coxe does it...

ProDodgeBall

11-07-2002, 08:21 PM

Ok, who's Russ Coxe?

doug

11-07-2002, 10:44 PM

Woops-- sorry...

http://users.erols.com/rcoxe/

Do a Google search to find out more if you like. He's also a regular poster on the AT DSM list.

ippkiss

11-08-2002, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by ProDodgeBall
Has anyone ever thought about using Nitrous right off the line, by doing a normal(or maybe a slightly lower rpm) brake torque, then activating the NOS the same moment you release the brake? I'm not talking about spraying the whole run, but cutting the juice when full boost is reached-strictly to improve our holeshot. Obviously this would only be an option for AWD racers, but I've been wondering if that would be an easy solution to make up for the long, slow first gear of my A/T.

I know that nano does this(but he actuly sprays for the whole run). There were some vids of his car posted on here a while ago, and he jumps off the line.

ProDodgeBall

11-08-2002, 01:20 PM

Thanks for the input, this is something I have to think about doing. If I decide to go ahead with it I'll try to post some video.

dsmturbo44

12-15-2002, 09:28 PM

Most of the posts are for AWD auto's
I have a 91 Talon TSI FWD auto

I have lots of mods, and I run 15 psi.
on the launch I power brake it, until boost reaches close to 0. I then release the brake as a floor it. I spin a little, then my turbo spools fully, and I break loose, and I dont stop spinning till around 50-55 MPH. I can spin almost all the way through second and into third. I have Kumho Ecsta 712's so I know its not the tires being shitty. Just wondering if Anyone has an ideas to help me hook up better.

I run a 13.7 @100.8

Spinning about halfway down the 1/8
I have since bought a set of HOOSIER 16" slicks, and I can launch on the street with 10 psi, and minimal wheel spin, hooks and goes like a bat out of hell.
But my slicks are gonna be for the strip only, just had to test them :), really quick on a side road.

Winter mods:
SAFC
FMIC
KYBS
Eibach Sports
Brembo CD/Slotted rotors
Stainless lines
550's
EVC
255 walbro pump
with the slicks Im hoping for a 12.5 withj all these mods, at 20 psi

SpeedRacer

12-18-2002, 11:21 AM

For me, it seems best to let the A/T shift itself, because (at least for you 2gs) the T-25 runs out of gas above 6 grand anyways, and mine always shifts crisply right around 6500, which is perfect to me, I am even chirping the tires on the 1-2 shift when the a/t does it for itself and i still keep on the gas for the whole shift.

My times so far : bone stock (no intake no bc no nuttin): 15.1@89. Me and all of ClubDSM_SW were SOOOO suprised with this. I outran a bunch of stock 5speed FWDs in the club at this point...Car mighta just been a phreak who knows :)

Now, with K&N, MBC, UICP: Hoping for mid to high 14s, considering i did so well in the 1/4 stock. Is this so far outta my range?

zola84

12-25-2002, 09:51 PM

15.1 ? wow, that track must have been downhill. What was your 60' time?

eclipse1gen

12-26-2002, 05:04 PM

In your sig it says you crashed your car??:confused:

SpeedRacer

01-15-2003, 09:04 PM

Old talon was crashed. 5sp. I actually like this one more just cause it make the morning commute that much easier, and more time to sleep on the drive ;)

jake98gst.at

01-20-2003, 10:40 PM

if you start in "L" itll rev all the way till the rev limiter kicks in and then you shift into "2" itll do the same thing, then after you shift into "D" itll shifter right before the tach goes into the red.

well thats how it does for me.

also, so have we decided yet? should we even mess with overdrive or not?

NOmoreDSM

01-21-2003, 07:31 PM

I just powerbrake it at about 5500rpms....

windells91turbo

01-22-2003, 11:13 AM

i hold my foot on the brake....press the gas down till around 2500rmps..and hammer it! Tires sqeel abit and im off!

NOmoreDSM

01-22-2003, 01:54 PM

^^
Works well too!

haulinTSI

03-24-2003, 06:32 PM

hey everyone i was told to launch at 2800 at the most. it works well. i have a auto tsi fw. does anyone know where i could get gauge wires at? i have a boost gauge and a volt gauge but no wires they are both auto meter phantom gauges? im not sure where i can get the wire? thanks what would u guys think i would run with a 1995 talon tsi auto fw. i have thermal catback exaust, filter.. thats all i have. next step is a BIG 16g +downpipe+injectors. what would u think i would run and if u can give me some advice on what i can do first to make the biggest diffrence in speed. thanks a lot everyone:D

jake98gst.at

03-24-2003, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by haulinTSI
i have thermal catback exaust, filter.. thats all i have. next step is a BIG 16g +downpipe+injectors. what would u think i would run and if u can give me some advice on what i can do first to make the biggest diffrence in speed. thanks a lot everyone:D
you might run mid to high 14's. i dont know. :confused:

also,i would do some intercooler plumbing before gettin the turbo but thats just me. its my philosophy to have enough cool stuff to compensate for all the hot stuff. but again, just opinion.

dsmturbo44

05-20-2003, 10:57 AM

The way I launch my 91 FWD automatic Talon

I brake torque till about 0 psi of boost, drop the brake, and smash the gas, this makes me leave the line somewhat fast, without spinning, as soon as my turbo spools, I break traction till about 60 mph, when my tires hook back up. My 91 Eclipse GSX, automatic, I can brake torque it, and launch with 15 psi, shit screams outta of the box, I love AWD.

My best run with the FWD auto I left it in Drive, and overdrive was on, I ran 13.7 @100.1 MPH, this was with no traction either.

Thanks, Clayton

AndyTsI95

06-20-2003, 12:28 AM

also if your racing someone, you might want to start back a little behind him. Maybe its my brakes but after holding for the person to drop their hands, my car creeps up to where the person thinks im getting a head start :)

InvaderGST

06-28-2003, 12:50 AM

I just read through this thread. First off everyone is telling what RPM they power brake to. All that info is irrelevant because everybody has a different setup in their car. RPMs really doesn't matter for my case. I always look at the boost gauge and power brake until I the boost doesn't go any higher. It's more reliable to look at your aftermarket boost gauge and read how much boost you are building and do a few test runs to see how many lbs of boost your car likes to take off at. In my case I have to get a new High stall torque converter because my big turbo has so much lag downlow that I can only build lie .2 bar of boost which is like 3 psi. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. And with a T-25 power brake all the boost you can will still not be enoough to lose traction. So as a tip you want to build boost my rpms.

Rdy2race

07-14-2003, 10:41 AM

ok just some side notes as we have done a lot of work with the trany and found what works and what tends to bust parts.

first off, thinking of any sort of racing on your AT? Get a trany cooler. Once a cooler is in the car it will help extend oil life a lot and should help the trany last. coolers range from $30-$70 and instal very easy. 11X7X1 is a good size or around that.

don't stall a car till it's in to the front clutch pack. Adam G from NYCC DSM has been through 3 tranys now. all R&D for what we just did. what we found is with the protorque converter we were seeing about 500 RPM's more then stock but I could hold the car on the brake till 4K. the converter only was allowing about 2800. Well in short it bent the front clutch pack ( 1st gear disks in the trany ) and that was from power braking it to hard and going past the converter stall and in to the front clutch pack. it was 1st gear that was stalling now. the disk that is flat was now bent like a U.

the slipshift 1-2. this is the real killer. start making some power in the car and you will soon see the trany give up around 5K and rev to redline with no power, pop off the rev limiter once and then make a soft shift in to 2nd. All no good since this is the clutches slipping. This is why we worked on the4 shift box to make the car shift 1-2 hard. a hard shift might now feel nic but it's better for the unit father then tryin g to slip in 2nd and riding the clutch pack wearing it out.

so stall it to where it will stall but not out of the converter. stock converter maybe 2200-2500 RPMs ( tops ) and protorque to maybe 2500-2800 ( again TOPS ) anything past that and your in to the 1st gear pack and hurting the trany. we run the "rattler" from PE 9" and the car will stall 3400 RPM's ( and some ) with out going in to the front clutch pack. with the 1-2 firmed uip with the HSP shift box the car can be shifted and bang gears.

hope this helps some
BM-

BlownGSX

07-27-2003, 01:08 AM

yeah power braking like that REALLY does work. little on the dangerous side cuz i did that befor i got a stall converter, and it put TOO much stress on the crank and i bent the whole bottom end. but brake torque does build better boost to get off the line.

Jehu

09-19-2003, 03:39 PM

So what are you getting for short-times? So far I've only be interested in 1/4 ets, so my timeslipes go like this...

R/T : 3.5 (sitting there brake torquing :))
60 ft : 1.87
.
.
.

So on. I haven't figured out how to brake torque at the 1st lights then creep to the 2nd. It's hard enough just holding the car still brake torquing, even with the handbrake.

kiggly

10-26-2003, 07:08 PM

I just found this thread and thought I'd share some of my experiences.

Whatever Bill was fighting in his customer's car is completely and totally atypical. I've never seen this. I've never burned up a rear clutch in my car. This clutch is also sometimes called the forward clutch (domestic terminology for what it does). This clutch pack is engaged in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. It is the ONLY clutch pack normally engaged in 1st gear. I've never seen this clutch hurt and I've put over 800hp through this tranny (610whp).

Also, for what it's worth, I've had a plethora of different stall speeds in my car. The range spans from stock (~3300-3500rpm stall) to a dunrite high stall (~4000rpm stall), to one of the experimentals I was testing out for PI that was a little bit too loose and stalled past 7000rpm. Through all of this, I never damaged the 1st gear clutch pack. I have destroyed a few front clutch packs though, but this is a different part than Bill was referring to. The front clutch pack is also called the high frictions (again, domestic terminology), and it is used in 3rd gear.

Kevin
former fastest at-dsm (I guess I still am as I type this, but the car has a 5-spd in it now)

DSMscreamer

05-29-2004, 07:14 PM

To my Experience on a 1G auto with a 14b, it seems best to just leave it in drive. I run 15psi and break torque until it reaches that point then side step the brake. I ran 13.4s@100-102 MPH with only free mods, MBC and everything else stock including exhaust. Added exhaust and UIP and ran 13.2x's with same boost. If you have a larger turbo than a 14b you may need to hold it in 2nd longer berfore letting it upshift to 3rd.

Ricerdude

06-07-2004, 12:44 AM

I just bought a 1991 gsx with 110,000 miles for $1000.00 and about 3 days ago i got it running, i had to put a head gasket in it, but i was talking to my dad and he said not to powerbreak it like that, because something has to give, somewhere something is slipping, i dont know how autos really work but this cant be harmless on a tranny.

Wufei

09-10-2004, 11:15 PM

Anyone have detailed knowledge of how much power braking hurts the tranny? :confused:

Jehu

09-11-2004, 01:07 AM

Yes, something is slipping. It's the torque converter. It's basically a fluid coupling. There's no actual contact between the pump and the turbine, so the only downside to brake torquing is the heat it generates. As long as you don't over do it, i.e. more than 5 seconds, and have an upgraded tranny cooler, you really won't hurt anything. Autos have been brake torqued for 1/4 mile races as long as there have been autos and 1/4 mile racing.

And to add another data point to Kiggly's post...my original tranny had a TC that let me stall at 3500 rpms or so. The very brief time I had the 2nd tranny in there, that only stalled to 2500 rpms. Upon opening up the 1st tranny, there's no evidence of damage on any of the clutches...

Spaniel1287

04-03-2005, 09:54 PM

doug

04-03-2005, 10:46 PM

Probably just because of this:
My car is totally stock nothing done to it. There were some problems with the car at the tiem

Spaniel1287

04-03-2005, 10:58 PM

valo

04-21-2005, 09:58 AM

Anyone have detailed knowledge of how much power braking hurts the tranny? :confused:
i had my 92 for 2 years brake torque'd all the time and never any problems, they are very strong tranny's. My 96 handles it real well now to no problems with either car ever. Oh and I brake torque until my gauge reads 16 psi or my brakes stop holding.

thor_bud

06-05-2005, 08:39 PM

Isn't brake torqueing and shifting manually on a a/t bad for the tranny??? Just wondering cuz i don't know.

doug

06-11-2005, 11:21 PM

I just had my tranny rebuilt after totally trashing it. One of the things the tranny shop (who has done DSM-related A/T work before) told me is that manually shifting actually opens up additional fluid passages, which means it's better to manually shift it at the track. Has anybody else heard this? I'm not sure if they meant additional passages in the valve body or in the tranny itself, but if this is true, it seems like a decent case for manual shifting.

95AWDTSIAuto

08-15-2005, 02:10 PM

Power Breaking on D is the best for the tranny. Think about it. Its an automatic. It was made to automaticly have a perfect shift. If you haven't messed up your tranny. Take your car out and drive it out in town and just step on the gas. It should shift everytime by itself and not redline. If it redlines time for an tranny oil change. Shift should be between 6k and 6.5k.

valo

08-26-2005, 02:07 PM

Well i have a 1995 Talon TSI FWD Automatic and I was at the track. My car is totally stock nothing done to it. There were some problems with the car at the tiem and they have recently been fixed but i havent been at the track since. I ran a 16 flat 3 times in a row. No joking i ran 16.0 3 times in a row. I thought that sucked balls. I also used O/D. Each time my overdrive was on. Why the hell do you guys think i ran a 16.0?

That is about right. High 15s low 16s. I used overdrive and got the same results as I did without OD. What was your reaction time like? Could be the difference between 15.7 and 16.0. Have you ran again since then?

valo

08-26-2005, 02:09 PM

Power Breaking on D is the best for the tranny.

this is what I do. works the best for me

pimpzachy69

08-26-2005, 02:31 PM

Well I run regular oil in my car right now and i got about 97,000 miles on it. Would i tbe a good idea to put in mobel1 synthetic blend and then on the next change put in full synthetic? Would that f*ck up my car if i switch to synthetic?

We put the translab kit in my 97 with about 97k on it. We then put in Mobile 1 synthetic and a couple months later my tranny went out. At your own risk man.

Darkeclipse

09-07-2005, 08:16 PM

Have been power braking for years, never had a problem.

GODspeed1320

09-07-2005, 11:30 PM

I don't know how old this thread is but I'm gonna put in my .02. From a previous statement that said "just gun it and it will shift fine". That is right to an extent.

From a dig(stop) if you leave it in drive and just gun it...I have noticed that it will shift to a different gear too soon....Loosing power. What I do is start at first, take off O/D, brake torque to 2500, and then let off the brake. As soon as the car is rising in rpm's I automatically shift to second. It doesn't matter when you shift to second... Since the car is automatic it will shift perfect. Then when your in second and your rpm's are rising hit the O/D button back on and it should do it about 6000 to 6700 rpm's. Lastly when the rpm's are rising shift to drive. That is what I do and I have had my auto 1998 gst for about two years. No tranny problems whatsoever. But then again I don't race every freagin day. I have turned it down to around once or twice a week. I'll be purchasing a tranny cooler in the near future. It seems like a very good investment.

MidnightViper

09-09-2005, 01:03 AM

I drive a 98 Eclipse RS (N/T of course) so I'll give a few tips on how I power brake off the line -- just for any A/T Non-turbos out there.

I mainly press the brake down all the way. I mean slam it down where it won't go down any further. I usually have it in D most of the time with OD off, but I like the idea of having it in L; I might try that tomorrow. After that, I just mash the gas down all the way of course and I let off at about 3,000 rpm, where it wants to take off (I kinda get it down to remembering how long it takes to get there and then letting off right at that time). And basically my tires bark off a quick sec because of the good traction (and A/T trannies don't burn tires well IMO) and I'm off the line. When my car is up in 3rd gear and about to redline, I normally click the OD button on to allow it to shift to it's fourth gear.

I'm sure this is nowhere near the same as a turbo model A/T, but I figured there were other non-turbo A/T Dsms in the crowd as well. That's just what I do though.

SVT Rob

09-14-2005, 05:32 PM

I've got a 91 GSX that's been 12.76 @ 108 with hks 272's, 550's, 14b, and an AFC coupled with a 50hp pill. It's currently awaiting a transfer case and output shaft, so I can start swapping everything from my 90 into it. In order for it to brake boost properly, you had to put the car in neutral, rev it up to about 2K, place your foot on the brake, and press very hard. Let off the throttle, drop it into gear, make sure OD is off, then mash your foot down on the gas. Doing this, we were able to bring the revs up to about 3500, and using the nitrous in small squirts, got the turbo to spin up to 16psi before the lights dropped at the track. We left the car in D the whole race, with the TCU set for Power mode, and with O/D off, it shifted at 6900rpm every time.

Rob

DSMscreamer

09-16-2005, 10:28 PM

That is about right. High 15s low 16s. I used overdrive and got the same results as I did without OD. What was your reaction time like? Could be the difference between 15.7 and 16.0. Have you ran again since then?

Reaction time does not affect E.T.

nongthep

12-28-2005, 11:21 AM

i heard that it might kill ur tranny....

2gBoostinGSX

03-09-2006, 02:22 PM

I dont understand what I'am doing wrong then. I've tryed just about EVERY brake boosting/brake torqueing method I have heard and my launches SUCK. I mash the brakes, floor it, build boost, even get up to 3-4krpm and when I let off the brake there is no launch whatsoever. Its just as if I were flooring it from a dead stop...... any ideas??

nailmark

03-09-2006, 06:18 PM

Reaction time does not affect E.T.

It affects your 60ft...which affects your et...Im not following you when you say it has no affect.

Dan70402

03-09-2006, 08:53 PM

It affects your 60ft...which affects your et...Im not following you when you say it has no affect.

Reaction time has NOTHING to do with E/T. It's simply the difference in time from when that little blinky lighty thing turns green and your car starts moving. :rolleyes:

2quickturbo66

03-09-2006, 09:33 PM

Reaction time does not affect E.T.
wow :rolleyes:

2quickturbo66

03-09-2006, 09:38 PM

talonkev

03-09-2006, 11:11 PM

Reaction time does not affect E.T.

that is true

SSZero

03-09-2006, 11:37 PM

Hey guys. I just ran the other day with my stock auto 96 GST and the fastest I got was 15.741. I always hold the brake, bring it to around 2500 - 2700, then take off on green. I usually get wheel hop if I launch a little higher than 2500, but that's when I got my best time. You'll get the same times no matter whether or not you shift because I did it both ways and surprisingly got a faster time when I DIDN'T shift. Also that idea of a tranny cooler is a really good one since it will help us autos survive abusing our trannies at the track. Now I believe we should be able to hit 15.5's stock, and I think the way we can do that is by deep staging, meaning to only have one of the yellow lights go on when we're staging at the track. Then, instead of launching at green, launch on the third yellow, which should give us a bit of traction beforehand and possibly shave off a tenth of a second or more...

DSMscreamer

03-09-2006, 11:45 PM

Jesus H Christ! Are you guys idiots or what? Bracket racing aside, REACTION TIME HAS NO EFFECT ON YOUR E.T. Hate to sound angry but I can't stand it when people put out bad info. You could sit at the light for .5 seconds or 10 full seconds it does not matter. The clock will not start until you cross the start clock beam. I've gotten a 4.0 reaction time by brake torquing when I saw the green, launched as usual and still got my typical 1.59 60ft.

Ive lauched with a perfect reaction time and still get the same result. If anything my 60ft can be a little slower trying to cut a good light because I'm not always reaching my target boost on launch.

SSZero

03-09-2006, 11:53 PM

By the way, I had my overdrive OFF, but at Wide Open Throttle, I don't think it really matters much... Anyway, these guys are right, reaction time DOES NOT influence ET...

DSMscreamer

03-09-2006, 11:54 PM

the clock starts counting as soon as the light changes.DUh. so your telling me that if you sit there for .5 secounds that will not affect your e/t. com on guys just try to think about this for a secound.

I can't believe you have been on this board since 2002 and still believe the above statement.

DSMscreamer

03-09-2006, 11:57 PM

By the way, I had my overdrive OFF, but at Wide Open Throttle, I don't think it really matters much... Anyway, these guys are right, reaction time DOES NOT influence ET...

Sounds like you have some issues. How long do you BT? You could be overheating the tranny fluid and putting air pockets in the converter which would make your launch sluggish. Try getting a high stall converter in the 3800+rpm range.

SSZero

03-10-2006, 12:04 AM

Sounds like you have some issues. How long do you BT? You could be overheating the tranny fluid and putting air pockets in the converter which would make your launch sluggish. Try getting a high stall converter in the 3800+rpm range.

I usually brake torque for like 2 to 3 seconds... Why does it sound like I have some issues? o_o'

DSMscreamer

03-10-2006, 12:09 AM

SSZero

03-10-2006, 12:18 AM

2-3 seconds is not long at all. Whats your boost look like at launch? Get some mods under your belt. Can't expect much on a bone stock T25 setup. Some 2gs will stall as high as 3500rpm. You should at least let it get to that.

I remember trying to get to 3500, but my car stopped climbing at around 3k or 3100. I thought that was a bad thing, though, since it caused so much wheel hop. Plus, isn't it bad for your engine/tranny mounts? Am I wrong? Does launching that high actually help? Speaking of mods, I have a boost controller, am waiting for an air filter and tranny cooler to arrive in the mail, and will be getting a 3" exhaust soon. Also, I need to do that free mod with the solenoid to give myself 2 extra pounds still, along with cleaning out the intercooler grill...

LatDSM

03-10-2006, 01:51 AM

I can't believe you have been on this board since 2002 and still believe the above statement.

TT= ET + RT
Where,
TT - Total Time - equalts the time from green to finish
ET - Elapsed Time - equals the time spent on track from start line to finish line
RT - Reaction Time - equalts the time from last amber to cross of start line

http://www.nhra.com/basics/glossary.html

http://www.bttbracin.com/PAGES/term.html

http://www.newenglanddragway.com/trackinfo/handbook/glossary.shtml

Of course you can say that the sites quoted lie ;)

DSMscreamer

03-10-2006, 08:51 AM

TT= ET + RT
Where,
TT - Total Time - equalts the time from green to finish
ET - Elapsed Time - equals the time spent on track from start line to finish line
RT - Reaction Time - equalts the time from last amber to cross of start line

http://www.nhra.com/basics/glossary.html

http://www.bttbracin.com/PAGES/term.html

http://www.newenglanddragway.com/trackinfo/handbook/glossary.shtml

Of course you can say that the sites quoted lie ;)

We are speaking of E.T not T.T

That confirms exactly what I've been saying.

For those of you who don't understand and do actually take your car to the track, try this simple test. Do your usual run trying to get your best possible reaction time which will surely knock 10ths off of your E.T :rolleyes: . Then on your next run once fully staged, sit at the light for 3 seconds. If your first run was a 15.XX then your second run should be 18.xx if what you all believe is true.

Silver Surfer

03-10-2006, 02:47 PM

^exactly, r/t is meaningless unless you are going heads up or doing bracket racing

most of the time at the track the big hp cars let the lights go and launch when they are ready in order to practice and find out the best way to launch the car

SSZero

03-21-2006, 01:57 PM

Ok, aside from the reaction time, what do you guys think about my elapsed time in a stock auto GST? Is it possible to do better or is my slushbox fated to stay at 15.7 on its stock system?

DSMscreamer

03-21-2006, 02:22 PM

Judging from your E.T. vs mph your 60 foot must suck a$$. Then again you are FWD so it most likely does. To get any quicker on your stock setup your going to need to drop your short times. When my car was stock it ran 14.40@90 mph but that was with AWD and a 1.9 60ft. You need more power and/or slicks/drag radials to drop your times.

TinSecondRice

07-02-2006, 03:46 AM

Anybody have any tips for getting an auto to stall up quicker? My car seems to stick at 3k or so rpms and not want to stall any higher. It gets to 3k really fast tough. Sorry to bring back an old thread. Btw, on a note about r/t....if you really think that affects your e.t. or 60 ft. I can post a timeslip with a 11.8 second rt but an 11.5 second et.

DSMscreamer

07-02-2006, 03:47 PM

Your going to need a restalled convertor. Try IPT.

TinSecondRice

07-02-2006, 10:12 PM

Sorry, forgot to mention I have the billet IPT stall at ~5500.

Djwired

08-22-2006, 12:49 PM

how was you guys holding ur stalls? when i stall to 2k.. wait more.. then jump to 4k.. i just go forward! no matter all the wait im holding on my brakes and e brake ( my e brake really doesnt work so.. i guess that wouldnt matter much) do u think if i fixed my e brake i would stay put? or.. can u guys make lots of boost off the line with just ur regular foot brake?
details?
thanks
BTW i have 16g and a 4k stall

Djwired

08-22-2006, 12:51 PM

hey tinsecondrice
mine is like that too but my stops at 2k... takes a little.. then jumps to 4k.. which is ANNOYING to have to stage sooo long, and PLUS i just freaking.. roll forward, gr

Djwired

10-18-2006, 09:37 PM

finally hit my 12.5's on race gas and 21 lbs on a evo3 16g and 272's....
i'm going to go bigger... is there such as 'trans brakes' for our cars? if so.. point me in the right direction.. thanks :)

aquito

05-20-2007, 07:09 PM

nice info....

cbnass

06-12-2007, 12:31 AM

wow dude u totally just post whored

Buddhalux

04-15-2008, 08:51 AM

Pot meet Kettle!!

dmc0162

04-15-2008, 09:32 AM

Pot meet Kettle!!

huh?

LatDSM

04-21-2008, 04:34 PM

I haven't figured out how to brake torque at the 1st lights then creep to the 2nd. It's hard enough just holding the car still brake torquing, even with the handbrake.

So has anyone found a way around this?

The 1,2seconds aren't enough to build decent boost for a good launch :dunno: or just mash the gas and hope for the best?

DSMscreamer

04-21-2008, 10:39 PM

So has anyone found a way around this?

The 1,2seconds aren't enough to build decent boost for a good launch :dunno: or just mash the gas and hope for the best?

I don't know why people seem to have trouble with this. They must have incredibly bad brakes or very weak legs.

I have no problem holding my car back even approaching 20+psi on my 3575. You must rev the motor before pre-stage to get some vacuum in the brake booster. Slowly creep up to trigger the 1st pre-stage light then stop and begin a mild brake torque. I like to get about 5psi going then creep to trigger the 2nd staged light and roll on the throttle to target boost.

If you have an opponent next to you, let him full stage first so you can dictate when the tree starts. If you end up having to full stage 1st, just get your boost up to about 5-10psi and nail the throttle once your opponent fully stages. That should give you enough time to reach target boost for launch. It can be a little more difficult cutting a good light with pro-tree.

Mac 108

04-21-2008, 10:56 PM

The trick to a good stall is getting that initial rev in for more brake pressure before stalling. My brakes won't hold a stall without it.

LatDSM

04-22-2008, 01:46 AM

What about the general 5sec rule before the car starts pulling back timing? or do you manage to build 5psi and creep into full stage before the 5sec pass?

DSMscreamer

04-22-2008, 12:07 PM

What about the general 5sec rule before the car starts pulling back timing? or do you manage to build 5psi and creep into full
stage before the 5sec pass?
My car has never done that. Timing stays just how I set it. Even on the afc my timing was never pulled. Is that a 2g thing?

lg93awdgsxer

06-27-2008, 10:39 PM

Ok I'm kinda new to the auto trannies. But how come sometimes when I try to stage and brake torque, the turbo wont build boost sometimes. Whats up with that?

With the 13g(on a 2g) (long story), it would build 5-10 psi, but now with sm 16g, it wont build at all really..

98gsxjeff

06-28-2008, 12:02 AM

This is why all dsm's are broken or running like shit

lg93awdgsxer

06-28-2008, 12:15 AM

This is why all dsm's are broken or running like shit

CAre to elaborate.....

Djcorkscrew

07-15-2008, 10:39 PM

I Have found The best way that works for me to Launch is put the car in L and O/D off, Starting in 2 didnt do pull as hard off the line like 1 does. push the brake to the floor and slowly increase the gas. Now i have a high stall T/C set at 3600 RPM's with my DSMLink to Have my launch set at 3500 RPM's so i dont creep forward when building boost. I Get 10Psi of boost built up then relese the brake and go. I also have Translab shift kit (Which i recommend) and i shift at about the 6K mark so the time inbetween my 1st and 2nd and the shift from 2nd to D is a lot faster with the shift kit. I havent gotten to the track lately but i will post when i do.

95' Mitsu GSX A/T
Mods: intake, big 16g, 3in downpipe, Full 3in Exhaust (no cat), Walbro 255fp, 650cc injestors, DSMlink (not fully tuned yet), UICP, Greddy Type-S BOV, MAF Trans with 3in GM MAF, Rebuilt Tranny w/translab shift kit, High Stall T/C, Turbo XS MBC, Gauges, Free Mods