NT = DSM yes/no ???

[dsm_pup]

does a NT equal a DSM? especially the 2G NT.

i dont think it should rate the name.

[dsm93talon]

1G T & NT = DSM
2G T & NT = DSM
3G Eclipse = Non-DSM Slow POS

[LaFemmeDSM]

Good boy :)

"2G T & NT = DSM"

[HRC Engineering]

Oboy, here we go again.

There is no real way to define this, is there? I mean, my 98 RS has no DSM sticker under the hood, but my buddy's 95 Avenger does.....

Let me lay something on ya...let's take a look at the venerable GM F-body, aka Camaro and Firebird. It's been thru, what, five or so generations so far. During those years, it has also been produced at several different plants, with many different engines. And other cars have been made at those same plants at the same time, but that does not make them f-bodies. And the engines have been in other cars too. While I am sure that different "gen" Camaro-Firebird afficionados have a preference, I am also quite sure they don't openly s**t on the other cars or engines in the series.

Same for Hondas: produced in Marysville, Ohio, or in the mother country of Japan, they are all Civics. Or Mustangs. Or whatever else!

My point: maybe come up with a new term to describe the Talon-Eclipse-Laser series, but please stop all this divisive argument over "who is a DSM". How's this for groundbreaking: call it the Talon-Eclipse-Laser series!

This debate can never be settled, so let's retire it altogether. I think it only further fractures a group of enthusiasts who need to stick together better: there's a LOT of Hondas out there, guys. Maybe y'all get a charge out of this family infighting, but I think we should concentrate more on what ISN'T a Mitsubishi based compact sports coupe, and direct negativity in that direction instead. Nobody likes to hang out at that family's house who are always fighting: it's too tense there!

[LaFemmeDSM]

Take a deep breath.... :) :p

[HRC Engineering]

Breathe in, then out....ahh, that's better. I should know better than to post late at night when I am crabby.

Forgive my rant, but I really am disheartened by the exclusion I see from time to time of 3G Eclipses and non-4g63 cars from the "in crowd". Maybe my motive is unconsciously ulterior, as I do sell parts for the 420A cars. But in doing so, I have come across a lot of hurt feelings with those NT guys. Sure, they bought a less expensive car, but they still belong. I can't help but feel their pain, probably cause I also own a 98 RS! But I have owned factory turbo cars before too. I love 'em all!

It seems this whole "what is a DSM argument" is the tough part. I guess I am really silly in stating all this on a board called dsm.talk (doh!), but I just want all us brothers, sisters, (and yes, even cousins!), to band together and realize that there is strength in numbers. There are far fewer Talon-Eclipse-Laser cars out there than Hondas, so let's stick together!

[Dsmman]

I agree with LaFemmeDSM.

[Jeff99gs]

Mr. Hahn does bring up a valid point though in the argument...

Avengers and Sebrings are the exact same as the 2GNTs minus the body paneling, and therefore share a platform with the turbo model eclipses and talons as well. The sticker that says DSM on the 95 Avengers and Sebrings says Mitsubishi on my 99 eclipse..

I think they should be accepted as very close relatives, if not immedaite family :P

There are a few ASOG guys on the 2GNT forum, and are always welcome.

[10secdsm]

COOL! MR HRC IS ON DSMTALK.COM TALKING TO US

[phrenzy]

<breaks out into song> AND I'M PROUD TO OWN MY 99...ECLIPSE NON-TURBO DSM! :D I have never really got the feeling that I don't belong, simply because my car is a N/T. Of course, thanks to you Mr. Bill, I should be a turbo in about 1 months. ;)

[YULookN]

Hmmm, this whole *argument* is really disturbing. By the very nature of the DSM name, it encompasses ALL things Eclipse, Laser and Talon, be they turbo or not. I'm proud of my non-turbo Eclipse and it gets just as many looks and just as much admiration as its turbo siblings. I don't feel any less a DSMer because I'm not the fastest car around. I love my car for what it is (and what it will be soon as I have the money....) and any *TRUE* DSMer would agree with me there.

If you have to question whether or not an Eclipse, Laser or Talon has the right to be called a DSM, hang a FOR SALE sign on your car and buy a Honda!

[Dsmman]

I agree with YUlookn!

[1.8L_2slow_lol]

What about all these people that say they own a DSM because their Dodge D50 pickups have a DSM sticker on them? What do I say to them???

[dfowler21]

I definitely think all eclipse/talons/lasers are DSMs. If you want to go by the sticker, my 92 GS has one so there you go. But just look at the top of the dsm.org homepage. It says "Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, Mitsubishi Galant VR-4" It doesnt say anything about Turbo or Non Turbo so all are included.

[HRC Engineering]

The D50 pickup is easy to define: it is not a Talon / Eclipse / Laser, regadless of where it was built.

And as much as I like the Avengers and Sebrings, they are also not a T / E / L. A similar situation: Chevy Novas were built on the same chassis as Camaro/Firebird, but are not considered as same.

Mustangs also have twisted lineage: the first Mustangs were actually reskinned Ford Falcons! Even the current generation, whose chassis is known as a Fox body, was used for the Fairmont, Granada, Thunderbird, and others.

So, our dilemma here is not so unique. Where the car was built don't mean diddly. What is important is its name, which is its heritage. It is unfortunate that sometime in the past, someone with an inability to predict the future decided to call our cars DSM's. I feel that it is now an outdated and divisive label. Time to move on!

Talon / Eclipse / Lasers forever!