NT Based Road Race Car [Archive] - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

: NT Based Road Race Car


Trys_Hard
02-27-2001, 12:13 AM
In SCCA competition the NT falls into the CSP Division for street prepared cars. I wonder whats your opinion on how competitive it would be. Right now the Miata is considered the class of the Division.

The reason I'm thinking it could be competitive is because of my experience last weekend autocrossing in the rain. At the practice was our local regional CSP Champion (Maybe the current national Champ) at the practice. It was pouring down raining at the California Speedway in Fontana CA. The Miata was consistantly running in the low 44's and the best was his last run at 41.1 sec. My times started at 52 sec and by the end of the day about the same time that the Miata ran his 41.1 I ran a 43.087. Well lets just say that out of about 25 cars I was either the 3rd or 4th fastest there. Most of the cars we VW's even the Supercharged GTI was 2 sec slower than I was. I was 6 sec faster than this TT Dodge Stealth, must have been a lousy driver. Now I have just been doing this since Mid Jan so I know it wasn't the driver (a little maybe :eek:.) Plus the only mods I have are catback, drop in K&N. The Miata was as fully modified as the rules allow and driven by a proven winning driver. Plus mine is an AT.
Maybe the rain had something to do with it but the car just responded real well to the wet conditions.

So what do you think? Should I go with it or buy a Miata :(
The mods allowed are basically any suspension except frame rails and bolt on engine mods no internal mods. What should my first mods be? Because I can't afford all of them at once and any one single mods puts me in the next class, which ones should I go for first. Lets say you had an initial budget of 1000 dollars.

Trys_Hard
02-27-2001, 12:15 AM
BTW I already have a line on a Tiptronic type mod for my AT so that I can shift gears at will with just a push of a button on my steering wheel. From Level 10 Transmission, costs about 3 grand plus though!

Iceman21
02-27-2001, 03:00 PM
what does it take to get into the SCCA and how do you feel that it is worth it if you want to try and get into the road racing scene as a hobby. I have a 93 ES MT and I would think that DSM's could be a very good road race vehicle


Let me know what you think

DSMspeed
02-27-2001, 07:06 PM
I say stick with the DSM! :) they are very capable. well if you are talking about 1000$ mods all around i would go with.

KYB AGX's (definatlly)
new springs (coil-overs preferably)
tower strut bars
(if you don't already, really good tires,i recommend toyo proxies, or yokahama)***
i would really work on low end torque for that type racing without sacrifing high's. go with some headers 4-2-1 or maybe an ecu upgrade.

(if you want to go with a cold air intake, but that will not help you a whole bunch in lows more highs and some mids.

DSM Storm
02-27-2001, 08:58 PM
Congrats on the good job, I think you should definatly stick with it, Road Racing is definatly my kind of deal, Im curious though, what division would an AWD T be in street prepared? What does it cost to Road Race?

Trys_Hard
02-27-2001, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Iceman21
what does it take to get into the SCCA and how do you feel that it is worth it if you want to try and get into the road racing scene as a hobby. I have a 93 ES MT and I would think that DSM's could be a very good road race vehicle


Let me know what you think
Hey thanks for all the Tips! :D
To get in the SCCA try this link:
http://www.scca.org
If you are in So Cal also try this one:
http://solo2.com

Originally posted by DSMspeed
I say stick with the DSM! they are very capable. well if you are talking about 1000$ mods all around i would go with.

KYB AGX's (definatlly)
new springs (coil-overs preferably)
tower strut bars
(if you don't already, really good tires,i recommend toyo proxies, or yokahama)***
i would really work on low end torque for that type racing without sacrifing high's. go with some headers 4-2-1 or maybe an ecu upgrade.

(if you want to go with a cold air intake, but that will not help you a whole bunch in lows more highs and some mids.

I already have Kuhmo V700's as my racing tire. Here is a picture of my car in Racing Form:
http://members.aol.com/arinner/images/823%20es%2001a.jpg

I do think the next step is the KYB's which will put me at the limit for stock class which I currently run. I didn't know that the 4-2-1 headers were good for low end, thanks for that tip. I am definately staying DSM I just love my car and I think that the NT can be very competitive, as I think I have proven. But I would still like to find out more about suspension setup and any tuning tips. Plus I didn't know that some made a modified ECU for our cars. Where can I get one?

DSMspeed
02-27-2001, 10:35 PM
well the 4-2-1 are not really a torque only mod really but they are what most factory comes with.i think they give you a good mod. for low and high mids mainly. but have a better torque flow than the 4-1 which have better high ends. now what i meant but ecu was really a couple options. there are not really any companys that sell already tuned ecu's for are cars :(. but there are selescted companys that you could call and see if they will tune your current ecu. (i reccomend getting a junk yard ecu just to have a spare :) , but what may be more 'complicated' but actually better and prolly cheaper or same price is the old apex-i S-AFCwhich is bacically a ecu 'hacker' and actually can do better for your scca because you can have a tuned setting for at the track , so you can adjust the lean and rich mixtures for your various rpm ranges for when you are taking those turns. then have a setting when you daily drive your dsm. it will also help ALOT with tuning in all your mods. for optimal horsepower (i luve that word :) )

Iceman21
02-28-2001, 03:29 PM
i am in the process of getting a front strut tower brace, but I can't find anyone with a rear strut tower brace, does anyone know where I can find one, companies etc.

I am going to look on the parts trader today

shdow92talonNT
02-28-2001, 05:43 PM
Buschur Racing has an excellent rear strut bar. Go to http://www.buschurracing.com...I believe that is the address, if it is not go to http://www.dsm.org and go to the listing of vendors you will find it there.

Trys_Hard
02-28-2001, 10:03 PM
Where can I find one of those ECU Hackers! :D
That's what I want Optimal Horsepower:) That does sound good!

DSMspeed
03-01-2001, 10:51 PM
goto http://www.apexi.com look for the 'S-AFC'


:)

GermanDSM
03-02-2001, 06:00 AM
How do you tune your car with this AFC??? Do you need a dyno??

95ESi
03-05-2001, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Trys_Hard
BTW I already have a line on a Tiptronic type mod for my AT so that I can shift gears at will with just a push of a button on my steering wheel. From Level 10 Transmission, costs about 3 grand plus though!


Hey Trys_Hard,

I have an auto 2GNT too, and I'm wanting to get more performance from my transmission. What was done by level10 to allow you the tiptronic feel? Is it really tiptronicy? :)


[Edited by 95ESi on 03-05-2001 at 12:55 PM]

Trys_Hard
03-05-2001, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by 95ESi
Originally posted by Trys_Hard
BTW I already have a line on a Tiptronic type mod for my AT so that I can shift gears at will with just a push of a button on my steering wheel. From Level 10 Transmission, costs about 3 grand plus though!


Hey Trys_Hard,

I have an auto 2GNT too, and I'm wanting to get more performance from my transmission. What was done by level10 to allow you the tiptronic feel? Is it really tiptronicy? :)


[Edited by 95ESi on 03-05-2001 at 12:55 PM]
I don't actually have the installation yet but have contacted Level 10:
http://level10.com

It comes in three parts.
First they retune your control valves, add a shift kit with torque converter lockdown and install a new electronic control which I plan to rewire so that I can control it with switches installed on my steering wheel.

I raced an autox this weekend with a pretty steep grade up hill and because my AT would not downshift into first I lost out by 1.3 sec. I know if I could get it to downshift at will I could be faster.

95ESi
03-06-2001, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Trys_Hard
I don't actually have the installation yet but have contacted Level 10:
http://level10.com

It comes in three parts.
First they retune your control valves, add a shift kit with torque converter lockdown and install a new electronic control which I plan to rewire so that I can control it with switches installed on my steering wheel.

I raced an autox this weekend with a pretty steep grade up hill and because my AT would not downshift into first I lost out by 1.3 sec. I know if I could get it to downshift at will I could be faster. [/B]


Retune control valves as in they modify the valve body, correct? And the shift kit would my it less sluggish?

So does the electronic control replace the TCU? Hmmm...this would be so much better to be able to downshift at will!

BTW, one question: wouldn't swapping the tranny out for a manual one be more or less the same cost?

Trys_Hard
03-06-2001, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by 95ESi
Retune control valves as in they modify the valve body, correct? And the shift kit would my it less sluggish?

So does the electronic control replace the TCU? Hmmm...this would be so much better to be able to downshift at will!

BTW, one question: wouldn't swapping the tranny out for a manual one be more or less the same cost?

[/B]
Thats the problem I'm sure swapping the tranny to MT would be cheaper. But then again you know how well our cars pull when the tranny downshifts properly and I've been toying with the idea of experimenting with the AT to see if a sport compact car can be competitive in autocross with an AT.

95ESi
03-08-2001, 11:22 AM
I don't know if any of the tranny mods will make this better or not, but I find that if you gun the car from ~45 km/h (it doesn't downshift to 1 since it's just past the limit), it accelerates awfully slow to 60km/h or so before it really picks up.

The only advantage I see with these tranny mods would be the 'uniqueness' and the simplicity of the install over a tranny swap. But which way results in the most "bang for the buck?" hmm

However, our auto tranny is still limited to 4 gears! :(

But I do wonder how the controls will be/look/appear for the shiftronic.

Trys_Hard
03-09-2001, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by 95ESi
I don't know if any of the tranny mods will make this better or not, but I find that if you gun the car from ~45 km/h (it doesn't downshift to 1 since it's just past the limit), it accelerates awfully slow to 60km/h or so before it really picks up.

The only advantage I see with these tranny mods would be the 'uniqueness' and the simplicity of the install over a tranny swap. But which way results in the most "bang for the buck?" hmm

However, our auto tranny is still limited to 4 gears! :(

But I do wonder how the controls will be/look/appear for the shiftronic.


I'm not sure how it will look. It might be just controlled by moving the shift lever. My plan is to see if I can redirect the electronic control to work off pushbutton switches I will install on the steering wheel. Our cars will go 42 mph in first but won't downshift if your past 28mph. If we could force the downshift at 35 mph it should do the trick. You can't override the rev limiter so it should still be safe just a bit harder on all the involved parts. (Engine and Tranny)

I'm not worried about the number of gears because in Autocross I've never gotten out of 2nd. We can do 72 mph in second and over a 100 in third so speed is not the problem acceleration is.

[Edited by Trys_Hard on 03-09-2001 at 10:47 PM]

95ESi
03-10-2001, 04:52 AM
Yes, I totally agree with you there that acceleration is a problem.

I wonder if with all these tranny mods would it be able to make the a/t accelerate just as fast as an m/t would?

Hmmm..

jza
03-11-2001, 08:11 PM
hey, i've also been thinking of autocrossing and i also have a auto 2gnt. i thought having an auto would limit me but seing what you've done i guess it ain't too bad.
also, level 1 also sells the torque convertor and shift kit alone for 700, maybe that will help and you wouldn't have to blow 3 grand for the other thing.

supposedly this makes you about 1 second faster quarter mile 95esi. that's a little bit slower than what the average person with a manual would do but you wouldn't have to worry about misshifting and it wouldn't be apain with a lot of traffic or when you're sleepy in your morning commute or when they call you if you have a cell phone or if you like to play w/ your radio all the time and it definely is cheaper than a conversion (i guess you now see why i have an auto :)), i mean i'd love to have a manual just for the fun, but for those reasons and more i have an auto. some times i put a water bottle on my cup holder and preten i'm shifting :D

now that i've said all this about myself, i'd also like to tell you guys about http://www.2gnt.com if you havne't been there. i mean, dsmtalk is an awesome place, but i don't know of any real expersts with 420 engine here, and there are a few over there.

no offense to anyone though, this is just what i'm assuming and you know what assuming though :D

oh yeah, about the s-afc, for directions on setting one for a NT goto http://www.turbogs.com (careful, this site can easily get you hooked on turbo ;) ). the directions that come with the afc for the eclipse is for the 4g63 engine, so don't follow those!

the s-afc is about 350 new.

95ESi
03-13-2001, 12:51 PM
I dunno...there's still something about driving a manual that makes it so 'appealing' ...

I guess cause you need to develop the skills of being able to control the car and its gears...

Trys_Hard
03-21-2001, 11:23 PM
Here is my mod list for a road race NT which would ultimately have to run in the Street Modified Class.

Tokico Illumina 5 way adjustables $450
Road Race Engineering Coil-Over Adjustable Height Suspension $600

There goes the 1,000.

Next
Road Race Engineering front and rear strut tower braces.
Road Race Engineering front and rear custom sway bars. Greddy 4-2-1 Header
Apex RS Exhaust
AEM Cold Air Intake
Unorthadox Pulley
Cam (Unkown brand at this time - Still reasearching)
Port Match intake and exhaust
Urethane Suspension Bushings
apex-i S-AFC
Circle 14x7 racing wheels (they weigh only 10 lbs each)
Level 10 Torque converter and shift kit
Level 10 Electronic Transmission Controller
225x45x14 Hoosiers
Stock size replacement fuel cell.
Relocate Battery
EBC Green Stuff Brake Pads (front and rear)
DOT 5.1 Fluid
SS brake lines
brake cooling ducts
Sparco Racing Seats
Sparco 5pt Harness
Welded Roll Cage
Engine Brace
Major weight reduction program.
Custom Paint Job

That should make me very competitive and cost around $7000
but heck it's my hobby. A turbo may be in the works but I like to have the broad power band that a Normaly Asperated Engines have. I figure the car will be pulling about 230HP and weigh in the neighborhood of 2400 lbs. It should corner like nothing you've ever rode in.