Ported stock turbo

[FastFWD]

gsxalex, this is mainly for you. I saw on a post that you said you had you stock turbo nicely ported and you are running 12's? Who did the port job on it, and is it cheaper than buying a 16G?

[gsxalex]

You should be able to get the turbine and compressor housings done for around $100, and maybe less depending on what exactly you want done to it. just check out his website, the prices are listed.

As for clipping the 14b, I doubt you would ever benefit from it. If i am mistaken on this, someone please tell me why.

[gsxalex]

I had TRE port my turbo. I have nothing but good things to say about Jon and his work. His portwork is that of a master. Check out his site: http://www.teamrip.com/

By the way, I don't have a timeslip yet.
But 12's on the stock turbo isn't too big of a deal, several others have proved it possible. My goal is 11's on my 14b.

[dsm4eva]

While I like the guys from TRE and know many people who use goods purchased from them, TRE overports a lot of the exhaust housings they do. People have been experiencing more and more severe cracks due to thermal cycling induced stress which leads to crack propogation. If you do decide to purchase goods from TRE, ensure you inform them that you would prefer to stay on the medium side of their porting. Trust me when I say that their medium is above and beyond that of any other DSM vendor.

[Mitchy]

I have a TRE 16G unfortunetly I haven't installed it yet. Right Bill hehehe. I can't say how it works or if it has any cracks. But it looks real nice in my mom's china closet in the dining room. It is a real conversation piece.

[Steve Rennick]

What is the approximate cost of Porting and Clipping a 14b? Rough ideas?

[dsm4eva]

Clipping the exhaust wheel is to let a percentage of the exhaust flow past the turbine wheel without adding more work into shaft. Clipping is only necessary in high flow WOT high performance applications, even then the clip angle is very small, usually smaller than 15 degrees. Basically unless you're pushing large amounts of air through the engine a clip is useless to you. Once you get above the 400 cfm range (i.e. T3, 20G, T04E, etc.) clips become more useful and allow more control over the system by decreasing the amount of exhaust that must exit via the wastegate.

[FastFWD]

Okay, wow, lot's of info, but one more question. Will getting the port and polish done, I take it I also need to port the o2 housing to take full advantage of this? And TRE will only do it if the turbo is in great shape, right? Mine has like 90,000 miles on it, is that a problem?

[gsxalex]

TRE will port anything you want them to no matter how many miles are on it. If there are severe cracks or something it might be a good idea to replace your housing or what ever, but otherwise don't worry about it.

Yes you definetly should port your o2 housing at the same time. I think he charges $60 for that. Or you can get a new ported 95 o2 housing for like $150 or something.

[dsm4eva]

If your wastegate flapper area is significantly cracked I would warn against opening that out. Otherwise get the housing ported to 7 cm and call it good. The above suggestion for the O2 housing is a very good one, you'll receive faster results working from the exhaust turbine exit through the rest exhaust system. Then working from the exhaust turbine back through the engine and intake to the turbo will net significant gains as well.

[FastFWD]

Porting the turbo wouldn't overwork it, would it, by causing extra heat?

I'm just curious what the stock turbo can handle..

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John Lewis
1991 Eclipse GS Turbo

[dsm4eva]

You'll run into bearing life issues if you run the turbo over 19-20 psi. The 14B must spin an astronomical amount to compress the intake charge to that degree. Porting will not overwork the turbo, it will reduce the amount of time it takes for the turbo to spool.

Oops wrong message icon. :(

[This message has been edited by dsm4eva (edited August 30, 2000).]

[FastFWD]

So...if I want to run SERIOUS boost, I will need to upgrade..right?

By the way, dsm4eva, I grew up in Port Huron, MI. We were neighbors once...

[gsxalex]

fastfwd
there are a few things to consider with all of this. First is that porting alows the turbo to flow air easier. Not only will this help spool-up time, but it will also increase top end flow as well.

It is true that higher psi will wear the turbo more, but it might not be as big of a problem as you think. Plus frequent oil changes with the right oil and perhaps a good oil additive will help prolong the life of your turbo as well as the rest of your engine.

A bigger turbo like a 16g or 20g will likely wear just as fast at high psi. Remember that the extra torque and thrust of the larger compressor wheel is going into the same shaft and bearings that the 14b have. I have heard many times that 20g's with a tdo5 cartridge will wear prematurely.

The bigger turbo does have the advantage of flowing larger amounts of air at any given psi, which means that you can run less psi with the same results. But slower spool-up time is the cost.

It all comes down to your ultimate interest. If you are building a street car, lag is definetly a significant issue. If you are building a drag car this isn't as big of an issue.
Just think of a scenario where you are cruising down the road at 40mph and some hotshot in a mustang pulls along side of you. You both floor it at the same time and he quickly pulls a few car lengths on you while your big turbo is trying to get up and go. Sure you will eventually pass him, but by that time the other guy already thinks he won. If you were staged at a stoplight against the same guy the problem wouldn't be anywhere near as severe, especialy if you are awd. But now you're drag racing.

[FastFWD]

My goal is to basically be able to smoke almost anything on the street, and run low 12's in the quarter mile. I am not trying to build a "drag only" car, it still has to be streetable. I'm not gonna strip the interior out of the car to race, I want looks and power.

I also agree, most racing is done on the streets while rolling, but the occasional stop light race happens alot too.

Basically, I guess I am asking what is the best recipe for the kind of power I want. I admit, there is alot about turbos and DSM's that I do not know. My only other tuners were Honda's. I don't have a big budget, I am married, have to pay rent, and two car payments. This is why all the questions about porting my stock turbo. I know cheaper isn't always better, but sometimes that's all you can do.

Well, that's it for now, any input is appreciated, and thanks to all who have replied to this post. You all lit my little folder on fire....

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John Lewis
1991 Eclipse GS Turbo

[gsxalex]

For ultra high performance on a budget, Dave at boostedperformance has one hell of a nice recipe. His approach to tuning is unlike any other DSM person or company I've seen, but if you take a close look at what he does, it makes a ton of sense. He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve, you have to ask the right questions if you want to extract them though.

[ohmygawd]

What's the fastest someone has gone on a T25 in a 2G. And, what mods were done to get there?

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95GSX
http://www.zing.com/picture/p96d08345b4b3a1eb71cffca209ea66a2/ff734d4a.jpg.orig.jpg

[DiamondsR4EVR]

I had Jon at TRE port my 16g in every orifice. Compressor inlet, outlet, wastegate,
turbine intlet and outlet. He also ported my O2 sensor housing ...i could stuff a tennis ball half-way through the O2 housing when he was done..it was absolutely HUGE!!! He installed a 34mm wastegate valve as well.
Boost is as solid as a rock at 17 psi. No creep no spike no nothing. I'd recommend him to anyone. As for overporting of exh. housings which causes cracks, I am probably immune to this since I had HPC hiper coated my entire turbo.

Jesse




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1999 Eclipse GSX born Dec. 1998- Injen intake, Hahn Upper IC Pipes, HKS Turbo exhaust, Archer SS DP, CFDF clutch, RRE flywheel, TRE ported 16g and O2 housing, B and M Edge shifter, modified Autometer A/F and Boost gauges, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK BPR7ES, Neuspeed front STB, Buschur Racing rear STB.
http://gc.dsm.org/moore.jpg

[gsxalex]

DiamondsR4EVR,
I can't agree with you more on Jon's portwork.
What is the deal with the special coating you have? What does it do and how much did it cost?

[VTEC THIS]

High Performance Coatings (HPC) coats parts with ceramic (?). It retains the heat of the exhaust gasses, supposedly making the exhaust gas travel faster. It also makes the engine bay not as hot and the parts last longer as well.

[DiamondsR4EVR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsxalex:
DiamondsR4EVR,
I can't agree with you more on Jon's portwork.
What is the deal with the special coating you have? What does it do and how much did it cost?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

High Performance Coatings is a company based in Oklahoma City that applies a high temp spray-on coating, which they describe as "an inorganic matrix", to just about any metal surface on the vehicle. Headers, downpipes, turbo compressor and exh. housings, valve covers, springs, retainers and pistons. They have two levels, Hipercoat (1600 F) and Hiper Coat Extreme which can withstand heat in excess of 2000 degrees. These coatings protect against rust, thermal corrosion, increase laminar flow, and reduce underhood temps, although just coating your turbo and O2 housing probably won't do much to lower you underhood temps.... I had mine coated for the long term protection and to decrease spool up time. Cost was $250.00 for both sides of the turbo (inside and out) and O2 housing inside and out. They say with the Extreme coating the skin temp of the turbo will be reduced almost 50%. I'd believe that, since my raditor hasn't had any trouble keeping my coolant cool since I had the coated parts installed. www.hpcoatings.com (http://www.hpcoatings.com)

Jesse

PS- I'm not affiliated with HPC :o)

[74PlymouthRR]

JET-HOT also has some coatings you might be intereste in. They have one, called Jet-Hot Sterling, that looks like burnished silver. It's supposed to be really good. I DO know that a lot of Top-Fuel drivers use Jet-Hot. Website, http://www.jet-hot.com/ . here's there phone#'s 610-277-5646 (tech info) 800-432-3379 (order line).
There's also another company called AirBorn Coatings, http://airborncoatings.com , phone#'s (405)685-4433 Oklahoma, and (860)528-8281 Connecticut. I haven't heard much about them tho.

I am in no way affiliated with either of these companies

Scott

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DIG through the ditches, and BURN through the witches, and SLAM in the back o' ma' DRAGU-LA-AA!

[This message has been edited by 74PlymouthRR (edited September 02, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by 74PlymouthRR (edited September 02, 2000).]

[magnus]

got on this thread kinda late,
porting a 6cm housing is not going to give you huge top end like that of a 7cm. no matter how much you port it it will never flow like a 7cm.
That is the inherent reason they crack, because the retain so much heat.
if you ever have the chance tak a 6cm and a 7cm and stand them side by side you will see the difference in the size of the scroll, stand it next to the rare 8cm housing and you'll see it dwarfs the two. on the 8cm the scroll is wider.
Mitsubishi changes A/R ratio's usually by changing the width of the scroll where other turbo companies like Garret actually change the diameter and radius of the exhaust housing so it is easer to notice without having a comparison piece beside you.
Back to the topic if you really want some topend get the bigger housing or the bigger clip, we have done 12.5's on the stock turbo clipped 15 degrees with ported 6cm turbine.

[ohmygawd]

Magnus, are you talking 14b or T25?