The MUTT Turbo

[BigRedAWD]

From what the old DSM Shop, what is now DSM Performance says that these are great turbos. The Stage 1 flows like a 20G but spolls as fast as a 16G. Is this really the best of both worlds or is it just advertising?

Steve

[steyr]

i don't know the answer to your question, but this turbo is fairly new. i'm very interested to find out what kind of reputation it will develope.

-steyr

[jayntguru]

Originally posted by steyr
i don't know the answer to your question, but this turbo is fairly new. i'm very interested to find out what kind of reputation it will develope.

-steyr

This is NOT new! Check:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com
http://www.forcedperformance.net

-Jay

[Grilf]

Everyone is too scared to buy one, no ones gonna be able to answer the question till someone actually tries one out (that is, someone not working for whoever is trying to sell the turbos).

[bill9009]

well i bought a mutt level 2 last week, but it will take some time to get to me, they have to get the parts and build it since i wanted a new one because i am sellin my 16g, well i am going out to sea for two weeks and when i come back hopefully it will have been delivered and once i get it on and going i will let everyone know just how good it is, but from what i have heard they are pretty amazing

[Speaker]

i am getting one ASAP

but its been put on a back burner because of some other product that just came out...

the Honda CBR600F4i :D

[TalonEvolution]

So the mutt isn't ASAP, the CBR is ;) Guess we won't be hearing any reviews for a while.

[bill9009]

hey guys give me a month at the most and i will know how the level 2 is, sorry but u will just have to wait!

[BoostLE]

did they sink? what's the url to the new shop? i'm thinking about the t28/28 but is 80K miles too late to add a bigger turbo?

[BigRedAWD]

The DSM Shop is no more. They are now DSM Performance.
http://www.DSM-Performance.com

[bill9009]

yea some of them left to combine with extreme turbo so now they have all your basice dsm stuff plus custom turbos

[Matt Gent]

Are they still local to South Florida?

[DanGSX]

No, they are in Texas now I believe.

It's either Houston or Austin.. I can't remember.

[sublime]

Well its like this. The web designer and pretty much the main guy lives in Austin. The turbo shop is in Alabama, so all the turbos come from there. And they still have the shop in FL to do misc stuff to cars.

[Fast16G]

Actually, it's come to my attention that many people are still thinking that we are "The *** Shop" under a new name and that is not the case. Our business has absolutely nothing to do with his. Zip, zilch, nada.

I just took my "free" site with me when David left and we started the new place. Just because the site looks very similar, don't let that fool you. I will be changing it within the coming weeks to avoid any more of incorrect associations.

sublime got it right :)

I am not sure why jaynt has Robert's site listed there, he makes nothing even remotely close to a Mutt unless he's starting to use Garrett comp housings all of a sudden :D

Ross
DSM Performance

[jayntguru]

Check out Forced Performance's website. They have been selling the green model. It's a hybrid turbo (garrett comp housing).

-Jay
97 GSX
http://www.nx2k.com/eclipse/

[widebody]

i'm gonna be running a level 3 here very shortly just gotta work out some details with ross and dave

[TalonEvolution]

Ross, so how is the mutt going to run on pump gas? You keep talking about high boost levels that most people would never run on the street.

[Fast16G]

jaynt--

LOL. That is NOT a Garrett comp housing. Yes, it's a "hybrid", but a Frank by any other name is still a Frank.


TalonEvolution--

You can run as much or as little boost as you want on pump gas....whatever your car will safely support.

Ross
DSM Performance

[TalonEvolution]

Well most of us can't run more than 20 pounds on the street and that's even kinda high. I know this is most likely asking too much, but when you guys start doing dyno numbers can you post pump gas numbers and race gas?

Originally posted by Fast16G

TalonEvolution--

You can run as much or as little boost as you want on pump gas....whatever your car will safely support.

Ross
DSM Performance

[jayntguru]

Originally posted by Fast16G
jaynt--

LOL. That is NOT a Garrett comp housing. Yes, it's a "hybrid", but a Frank by any other name is still a Frank.


I was told that it had a Garrett T04E comp housing.... Could be bad info, I haven't verified it myself.

[Fast16G]

Most "pump gas limited" boost issues are a direct result of tuning and outlet temps. The hotter the intake charge (increases with boost), the higher the cylinder temps and the greater the chance of knock. As a result, it is safer to run "lower" boost and richer mixtures on pump gas.

We've measured pretty cool outlet temps on the Level 1 Mutt (250° in 2nd and 275° in 3rd/4th @ 28psi and 70°)

<<snip non-verified 20G outlet temp info>>
I have taken this out to turn down the S/N ratio as mentioned by Bill.

On my 16G, I ran 21psi on the street and at the track for 2+ years. I just changed my timing and fuel curves to support each type of fuel.

I will see what I can do to get them to get them to dyno on pump gas, but I cannot make any guarantees.

jaynt--

Nope, unless he started doing it in the past few weeks. I was at his shop just a few weeks ago and they are TD06 housings.

Ross
DSM Performance

[Edited by Fast16G on 03-04-2001 at 05:45 PM]

[GST95]

Would the minimum mods for a mutt level 1 or 2 be the same as a 16g, or would it require more? Which mods would you recommend for putting these turbos on a 2G?

[Fast16G]

GST95--

At a minimum, the same mods as a 16G including a fuel pump. The Level 1 is just fine for a lightly modded DSM, you'll just need to start with lower boost. As you mod more, simply turn the boost up as the car will safely support more power (fuel injectors, FMIC, etc). As seen on our test car, it made 400HP at the wheels on a decently modded '95 with a stock bottom end (I don't really recommend producing that kind of power on a stock small rod motor...upgraded rods should be installed).

So as not to clog up the forum, all Mutt-related questions can be answered by calling Daniel at our turbo shop on Monday @ 205-661-1726.

Ross
DSM Performance

[HRC Engineering]

<<edited by HRC>>

[Edited by HRC Engineering on 03-05-2001 at 12:20 PM]

[welderx]

post yer data bill......i always love your posts. if you can help keep the signal to noise ratio down, we'll all be happy. thanks, greg

[HRC Engineering]

S/N Ratio! LOL! That's good, welderx!

We do offer a comparison chart on our website for efficiencies of 16G's compared to 20G's up to about 450 HP.

[Edited by HRC Engineering on 03-05-2001 at 12:36 PM]

[BigRedAWD]

On the exhaust side of the turbo what are the pros and cons of a 6cm housing compared to a 7cm housing. I know it will aid in spool-up time. Does the 6cm housing promote boost creep since the exhaust can't flow out as well.

[magnus]

The fast spool up comes from the O2 housing, boost creep comes from the fact that the wastgate dumps into the O2 housing and the outlet of the O2 housing cant flow enough to get both the wastegate gasses and turbo out the same hole at higher rpms. Th hole is too small on the regular housing. That is why 'porting' your o2 helps eliminate boost creep.
I can't believe this is still an unknown. Changing you o2 housing is one of the BIGGEST performance mods you can do for your car. Go with an EVO, custom 2.5" or 3" or just hog the one you have but you must really open it and its alot of work unless you have a milling machine. The amount you have to open a stock one to operate like an EVO is crazy.
We have recorded 200 degree drops in EGT temps with the addition of the O2 housing, And torque improves greatly.
On the 6cm housing thing, they all crack, they are too restrictive. Just like the O2 housing. Anyone serious about longevity or performance should really have a 7cm housing, they get hairline cracks but they never affect performance.
6cm's crack up by the wastgate port and then the turbo no longer spools as fast as it used to.

I remember doing a high speed run and after I was siting at the traffic lights we actualy heard the 6cm crack. How do we know, because after that there was only 5 psi of boost when before ther was 20. After inspection the housing was junked. Split across the wastgate port.