E.T. vs mph???

[gsxalex]

I know a thing or two about performance and mechanics when it comes to dsm, but as for drag racing, im a newbie.
I went to the strip for the second time in my life tonight. My first time was less than a week ago. I got 10 runs tonight, but two of them stand out the most two me, and they seem to be opposite in nature. I was hoping some of you with experience on the strip could help give me an idea on what to make of these two time slips.

My personal best e/t so far was 13.568 @97.49mph with a 1.787 60ft

My personal best mph so far was 100.22mph with a 14.504 e/t and 2.221 60ft. (I think i fumbled a bit getting it into second gear on this one.)

My mph on average for the night was around 97. My e/t average was around 13.7. So my question is how the heck did i get such high mph on such a slow e/t and 60ft. And why aren't my mph's higher on my faster runs?

I guess there could be a million variables, but are there any "most likely's"?

By the way, I was running the stock unported turbo @20lbs, modded mass/k&n, stock downpipe with unbolted cat and no catback(freeflowing and loud!) Fuelpump with rewire, 100 octane, and my buschur rebuilt engine.

[This message has been edited by gsxalex (edited September 14, 2000).]

[NOSLO2PT0]

I also use to be a newbie to actual drag racing. I've only been to the track 3 times but have about 40 runs under my belt now. One trip only netted me one run since i blew a hose on the 2nd pass and had to go home very early.
On the first day, my best pass was 13.87@97mph. My 0-60' was one of my fastest but only avg. mph. The second time i went, I changed my clutch master cylinder cuz it was going bad. I was turning low 14's all night with a best of 13.84@98. I had a lot of runs in the 100-101mph range but the times weren't as fast. Lots depends on your hookup at tht line, how well you shift, rpm when shifting, track conditions, weather, clutch conditions. You start to make back to back passes, your clutch will balk a bit when it's heated and may slip a little, just enough to drop 1 or 2 mph.
Are you running stock piping to and from IC? I was told that is a major hinderance in your setup. it kills some of the top end. I've just installed my Brode UIP and will be testing it at the track Sat. I'll have to turn my boost back down to 16psi to see if it makes any difference. Then i'm cranking it up and hoping to get into the mid 13's!!!!!! Wish me luck.

Mike
90 Laser Turbo FWD

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"Usually when you go for broke, you get there."
"It's hard to go home a winner if you never go home."

[NOSLO2PT0]

GSXALEX
I see you are from Racine. Do you ever head out to Great Lakes Dragaway?? I've raced there my two days of test and tune. I'm not sure how far Racine is from GLD. If it's not too far, maybe one day we can meet up and race and try to tweak the car or something.

Mike

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"Usually when you go for broke, you get there."
"It's hard to go home a winner if you never go home."

[dsm4eva]

The MPH is an indicator of power potential of the car. The ET is representative of how well the car can hook & book. Taking a look at your respective ETs you will notice a BIG difference in the 60' times, almost a full half second. This really hurt your overall time, but it would help to see a comparison of your other distance indicators like the 1/8 and 1000' if they print those at your track. The pick up of 3 MPH isn't overly significant below say 120 MPH. This can be as simple as a really good shift or temp drop of a few degrees. Once you hit the 120 MPH barrier, the horsepower required to go faster increases almost exponentially.

[ouSeven]

how many runs are you guys getting in one night at the drag strip? when ive gone with my brother he only gets like two/

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-GSX

[4npower]

hey GSXALEX, i dunno if this helps but i have ran a 14.5@116mph...i've also went 12.7@116mph...and mid 13's @ 116mph. all of this was on the same day, why you ask, well i went to a test n tune at cecil county dragway(md)and raced with my stock clutch because i'm too lazy to put the 2600 in that has been in my livingroom for 4 monthes. well that day i got 13 runs in. ofcourse i really couldn't launch the car because the clutch would slip on take-off but seemed to grab in third gear....my best 60ft was 2.5 and that was the 12.7 run.....kinda weird huh :D basically no matter how the car took off once it was in third i could always get to atleast 114mph. mph says how much hp your car is capable of making on the top end, the bigger the turbo the easier it is....on the top end, you know were the car stayes through the whole 1/4 mile. i'm running the hrc s-20g with the 10cm turbine housing, for the top end i love the turbo, well atleast the 10cm turbine housing. in my opinion the 6 & 7cm turbine housings are a big flow restrictor on the top end. that's why people clip the turbine wheels on 7cm 16g and 20g turbo's, to get more top end flow. as far as spool-up, i have 20psi by 3800rpm.

bill

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95 tsi-awd
91 tsi-fwd
95 civic turbo
82 gti
http://images.honesty.com/cgi-bin/honesty-image/14016989/greddyfmic.jpg

[ecoli]

Same here, I have bogged off the line really bad and pulled a 2.9 60' but still ran 14.25@115 in my AWD. Mph tells the true power of the car, while ET obviously tells some of the power, but also depends alot on your hookup of the line and your shifting.

[WhoaTed]

Alex,
What dsm4eva says is just what I was going to say :) The difference between those two runs (Best E/T vs. Best MPH) is all in your 60 foot. The difference in MPH, at that speed range, is really negligible.

It was talked about in this forum, that a .1 diff E/T in 60 foot can work out to a .2 sec diff in E/T. It looks like those two runs are a textbook example of that. I forgot my physics, but I think this is in the chapter on inertia :) .

Bill,
If those 116 MPH runs were in your AWD, and you had the 2600 in there, you would have probably turned an 11.xx run.

ouSeven,
Problem is import drag racing is too popular. Too many Hondas clogging up the lanes (not a slam, just the truth :)). Its the same thing at ETown in NJ. If you get in the lanes by 6PM on a weeknight, you spend your whole night there, and your lucky if you get 3 runs. 2 is pretty typical and is a rip off considering $gate fee, $race gas, $dinner, blah, blah.

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http://www.dsmtalk.com/images/forumgallery/burnout.gif ** Ted-95 GSX **
http://www.turbologic.com/images/smallcar.gif

[This message has been edited by WhoaTed (edited September 14, 2000).]

[gsxalex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Do you ever head out to Great Lakes Dragaway??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, its about 20 min away. Thats where i go.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If it's not too far, maybe one day we can meet up and race and try to tweak the car or something.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure that would be cool, but i'll only be in Racine for about two more weeks, then I'm off to California, perhaps permanently.

[ecoli]

Just throw in some cams...

[NOSLO2PT0]

Cali permanently?? Land of the Honduh's? What you gonna do out there?? I'm probably gonna head out to GLD this Saturday. wanna go?? I'm gonna try to get 1 or 2 other people to head out with me. Let me know if you wanna go.

Mike
90 Laser Turbo FWD

[NOSLO2PT0]

boy i'm glad i live in the midwest. The Honda craze isn't that big here yet. You won't find hardly any imports during test and tune nights. You mostly race against 10-11 second muscle cars out here!!! And most of the Honda's out here are really slow. I've only come up across 1 that gave me a race, but he still couldn't get there. I can avg. at least 15 runs during my test and tune nights. The last one i went to i got 27 passes in, and that was taking 1/2 hour break after every 3 passes!!!! Sorry to hear about the lane clogging at NJ!!!

Mike

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"Usually when you go for broke, you get there."
"It's hard to go home a winner if you never go home."

[gsxalex]

Thanks everyone. I guess my times were more consistent than i thought.


NOSLO2PT0,
I'm not sure if i can make it on saturday, i have lots of "goodbye" get-togethers this weekend. If you think you might go anyways let me know 'cause i will still go there if i get a chance. If you can go on a weeknight, i will definetly be able to go. You can email me: channelexit@aol.com

[4npower]

TED,
no i didn't have the 2600 in for those 116mph runs, was running the good ol' stock clutch in my AWD. i think i've learned that you just gotta heat those stock clutches up a little for it to hold :D as far as 11's, all i can do is hope. my mph suggests 11's.
i'm hoping for a 12.2-12.4 et once the clutch is in there. i'm still running the stock unported head and i just don't think it is possible to go 11's on it being unported.....so that is my next upgrade. the problem is that it's so damn expensive...over $1000. you wouldn't know of a cheaper place that does good work??would ya??bill m.????

bill

------------------
95 tsi-awd
91 tsi-fwd
95 civic turbo
82 gti
http://images.honesty.com/cgi-bin/honesty-image/14016989/greddyfmic.jpg

[TSi92]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 4npower:
hey GSXALEX, i dunno if this helps but i have ran a 14.5@116mph...i've also went 12.7@116mph...and mid 13's @ 116mph. all of this was on the same day, why you ask, well i went to a test n tune at cecil county dragway(md)and raced with my stock clutch because i'm too lazy to put the 2600 in that has been in my livingroom for 4 monthes. well that day i got 13 runs in. ofcourse i really couldn't launch the car because the clutch would slip on take-off but seemed to grab in third gear....my best 60ft was 2.5 and that was the 12.7 run.....kinda weird huh :D basically no matter how the car took off once it was in third i could always get to atleast 114mph. mph says how much hp your car is capable of making on the top end, the bigger the turbo the easier it is....on the top end, you know were the car stayes through the whole 1/4 mile. i'm running the hrc s-20g with the 10cm turbine housing, for the top end i love the turbo, well atleast the 10cm turbine housing. in my opinion the 6 & 7cm turbine housings are a big flow restrictor on the top end. that's why people clip the turbine wheels on 7cm 16g and 20g turbo's, to get more top end flow. as far as spool-up, i have 20psi by 3800rpm.

bill

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that MPH is frm your AWD car, then your car is a potential 11 sec car! Change that clutch! I bet that you are loosing quite a bit of HP with the stocker. Judging form your mph you have close to 400 hp at the wheels, that's way too much for the stock clutch! Put the 2600 and you will see 11's.

MPH vs ET? Well, for me drag racing is all about ET, mph tells you more about how much power your car is making.


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'92 Talon TSi FWD
K&N cut air can, DDP mbc @ 15 psi
14.71@96 2.5 60ft

[Fourdoor]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsxalex:
My personal best e/t so far was 13.568 @97.49mph with a 1.787 60ft

My personal best mph so far was 100.22mph with a 14.504 e/t and 2.221 60ft.
[This message has been edited by gsxalex (edited September 14, 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Real simple, on the 14.504 run you accelerated for almost a full second longer than you did on the 13.568 run. In that .938 seconds you gained 2.73 mph. Time accelerating has much more effect than distance accelerating when it comes to trap speed.

Keith

[hipogtr]

4npower, what boost were you running to get that 12.7@116mph? I've also got the HRC Super 20G on a 95 AWD and have gone 12.8@107 (18psi + 94 octane pump gas). I'm trying to gauge what sort of improvement I should see in mph with 23 psi and 104 octane race gas in the tank.

Anybody know what the safe limit for boost is on a factory 2G bottom end using 104 octane race gas?

Thanx in advance.


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Cya O!
SPOOLIN!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/gstagno/index.htm

[4npower]

hipogtr
i always race at 25psi with race gas. that s-20g doesn't even start pulling till 20psi. if you got everything to go along with the 20g...fuel pump, injectors, fmic, fuel control, CLUTCH :D then turn up the boost, and you'll be lovin it. the differance on my car from 20psi to 25psi is like having a second turbo kick in.

bill


------------------
95 tsi-awd
91 tsi-fwd
95 civic turbo
82 gti
http://images.honesty.com/cgi-bin/honesty-image/14016989/greddyfmic.jpg

[ecoli]

I personally thought the Super20G came alive and started pulling like crazy once you hit about 22psi.

[hipogtr]

Thanx for the feedback. Looks like I'll be ramping the boost up to at least 23psi. Hopefully my 3rd & 4th gear will finally feel strong!


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Cya O!
SPOOLIN!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/gstagno/index.htm