Type R

[ouSeven]

i was bored recently and looked up Honda Civic Type R stuff, thinking they were as fast but not faster, then a DSM, i couldnt help but laugh histerically when i saw a discussion board for type r in which civic owners were bragging about 14 sec 1/4mile times. thats just wrong.

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-GSX

[greenstreak]

14 sec. quarters are the holy land for n/a Honda guys. Sad

[Shawn95TSi]

The fastest N/A DSM runs 15's so put things in perspective before you talk sh!t. I'm not a huge honda fan but its pretty amazing how much power they get out of normally aspirated 4-cylinders.

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Shawn B.
95 Talon TSi AWD
http://members.aol.com/shawn95tsi/tracks.jpg

[Quadcylla]

I have respect for the Type R... it'll run high 14's bone stock. There's noth'n whimpy about that... considering they don't have the turbo we do.

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http://geocities.com/r337m0nk3y/dvv/asthanos.gif Quadcylla
92 Laser RS-T FWD

[greenstreak]

I have a lot of respect for Honda's engineering dept. They do pull alot of HP from a small displacement motor with all kinds of neat tricks and technology. I just have seen to many 17 sec. hondas at the track to be very impressed by them. :o I am a big dsm fan and I am on my 3rd dsm and wouldn't get anything else but I don't hold the n/a dsm as a model for performance and I don't use it to compare other n/a imports to. The n/a are slugs (especially the 2Gs), I know I had one.

[ACR Neon]

whats wrong with 14 second n/a cars? I smoke n/a dsm's and even beat a lightly modded TSI at the track...barely but I still beat him. 14.9 to his 15.0 :)

[ouSeven]

no, what im trying to say is that most of them had a list of mods,
like 8 or 10 on average

is that right, that it would be going that slow after that many mods?

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-GSX

[This message has been edited by ouSeven (edited September 05, 2000).]

[greenstreak]

I don't mean to come off bad. I like cars, not just turbo ones. I especially like fast cars, turbo,n/a,import and domestic, as long as it is fast. Didn't mean to offend anyone.

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1995 Talon TSI fwd
http://www.zing.com/picture/p111539c01d762c8caad3728ca244351d/ff6bd54c.jpg.orig.jpg

[ForestTalonAWD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shawn95TSi:
The fastest N/A DSM runs 15's so put things in perspective before you talk sh!t.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, if you want to "put things in perspective", the N/A DSM's, especially the 1G's, don't have a tenth of the aftermarket support that the Honda's do. I think this is the defining difference.

And even "all-motor" Civic's/Honda's are running much faster than 14's, like 12's. So even for a n/a Civic, 14's is nothing to brag about.

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1993 Forest Talon AWD - modified

[pushandpull]

There is one all motor Integra running 10.9's, damn impressive. Several others are making mid 11's.

[greenstreak]

I agree that 14's is nothing to brag about but they do. A shop near here is 90% honda and if I hang there to talk to a guy with a 97 gsx all I here is 14 this and 14 that. Also about the fast ass n/a hondas...That skunk 2 integra is amazing!

[4npower]

well think of it this way, if a civic gets in the 14's, he has just shedded 2 seconds off his stock time. now a stock gsx runs 14.9 stock with a good driver, if he shedds 2 seconds off his time then he has just ran a 12.9....would you brag about a 12.9, i think i would. also i'd be willing to bet that the civic owner worked alittle harder to shed 2 seconds off his time compared to the gsx owner, exspecially if he is n/a still. i think that the problem is when a guy with a gsx starts pulling 12's in the 1/4, he(some people) think they are above or better than the "little honda boys". this is true with any motorsports. walk up to stephan papadakis or vinny ten and tell them you have a 12sec gsx...they will probally laugh at you as we do to 14 sec hondas. i love my "little 14 sec honda"(14.4@101mph) as i do my low 12 sec awd, but it was alot harder to get the civic in the 14's than the talon in the 12's. but it's all fun, i love spending my weekends working on my cars, honda,dsm,vw.

bill

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95 tsi-awd
91 tsi-fwd
95 civic turbo
82 gti
http://images.honesty.com/cgi-bin/honesty-image/13768263/greddytype-r.jpg

[greenstreak]

I agree that any body that has put their heart and soul, time and money into their car deserves my respect as I am a car guy. This goes for honduhs (j/k), F-bodies, dsms, whatever. I just get annoyed by a kid in a riced out accord that runs 16s and thinks his car is now a sports car because it is low to the ground and is really loud when he punches it... PLEASE! :rolleyes:

[ForestTalonAWD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 4npower:
well think of it this way, if a civic gets in the 14's, he has just shedded 2 seconds off his stock time. now a stock gsx runs 14.9 stock with a good driver, if he shedds 2 seconds off his time then he has just ran a 12.9....would you brag about a 12.9, i think i would. also i'd be willing to bet that the civic owner worked alittle harder to shed 2 seconds off his time compared to the gsx owner, exspecially if he is n/a still. i think that the problem is when a guy with a gsx starts pulling 12's in the 1/4, he(some people) think they are above or better than the "little honda boys". this is true with any motorsports. walk up to stephan papadakis or vinny ten and tell them you have a 12sec gsx...they will probally laugh at you as we do to 14 sec hondas. i love my "little 14 sec honda"(14.4@101mph) as i do my low 12 sec awd, but it was alot harder to get the civic in the 14's than the talon in the 12's. but it's all fun, i love spending my weekends working on my cars, honda,dsm,vw.

bill

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, let me get this straight - the Honda guys work harder, spend more money, shave 2 secs off their stock time, and still go slower, and we're supposed to respect that? Sorry, I disagree ... that's the whole point that people have against Honda's.

Now, I will respect whatever makes someone happy, and if the challenge of making a fast Honda makes someone happy, more power to em. That's what we all do this for anyway, right? :)

But, commenting on the example you gave about shaving 2 seconds off the stock times ... at least 12's is relatively fast in the grand scheme of things, especially for a daily driver. And 12's is still 2 seconds faster than a 14.x. Yes, there's 9-sec DSM's/Hondas/RX-7's/etc., but that's an extreme end of the racing spectrum. Vipers can run 11's stock, so 2 seconds off of that would be 9's. Now, would you expect that Viper owner to come slap the GSX owner on the back for running 12.9's?? No, it's run what you brung. When you can beat 99.5% of the other cars on the street, I consider that bragging rights.

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1993 Forest Talon AWD - modified

[4npower]

well i guess that's what separates me from you...respect. i don't compare my car to hondas just like i don't compare it to vipers. when i see a car at the track or on the street, i don't say "well he runs 14's and i run 12's so i don't respect him. i take a step back and look at the car in general and think what it would have taken to get the car to the stage it is in, including money and time,regardless of the make of the car or the time's it runs.(oh well i guess i'm getting old or something or maybe it's from choosing to drive an 82 vw rabbit to work :D ) i will say this, two things that turn me off to any car or owner is 1. a person that took his car to a shop and gave them a big check and said "make it fast".....anybody can do that(well not anybody :D ). 2. a cocky owner..you know the guy that thinks he is to good to talk to you because he runs 10's and your just a little pee-on in the 12's or "yeah my sh*t is the bomb" and if you have something different then he does it's junk.
it is kinda funny going to the "kill stories" of different chat boards and reading how the 20g equiped eclipse or the supercharged cobra had 5 car lenghts on the accord type-whateverthestickersays. the guy has his chest in the air saying "yeah i put that rice boy in his place" then 10 other guy's chime in saying "nice kill"..i think that is pethetic.

bill



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95 tsi-awd
91 tsi-fwd
95 civic turbo
82 gti
http://images.honesty.com/cgi-bin/honesty-image/13768263/greddytype-r.jpg

[dsm93talon]

WATCH OUT TURBO GUYS! :)
This post has inspired me to build my Talon up. I have a '93 Talon ES, i know it will cost a lot of money but I wanna see my N/A 4G63 running 12's. hey... if a honda can do it. so can a talon. :) what ya think?

[Talonted]

Good luck DSM93TALON. Those guys run those times with MUCH lighter cars. They also have tons of aftermarket options for making more power. I don't want to pee in your Cheerios, but there isn't much out there for N/A DSMs to make them that fast. I guess us turbo guys are to blame for that, sorry.

Right on, greenstreak. Fast cars rule! I am a little jealous of the Type R's wieght and brakes. On a road course, a stock R would kick the crap out of our cars, even lightly modified DSMs wouldn't be able to keep up. In Sport Compact Car a couple of months ago, they had a King Motorsports/Mugen Type R that was beating NSXs at Streets of Willow out in CA. That is fast! But it snows in MI so no R for me.

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- Trent

[This message has been edited by Talonted (edited September 12, 2000).]

[cveclipse]

Listening to all these replies is kinda intresteing. I personally don't have a problem with honda's because there is some real impressive honda's out there. But here where I am from there is definatly not. Ya there is a type R integra and acouple 14 sec v-tec. The problem I have is with there additude. Thay act and talk like the are it. I have a 90 Tsi Awd descent shape. I get them telling me how nice my car is. Being a smart A#%. Thats the only reason I throw my times in there face. And the majority of the Honda's I have encountered have been the same way. (not all of them) Like a couple a months aga I want to a NIRA event in seattle , Wa and I was stared at like I was an alien or something. You know the whole story would be diffrent about times if there was the amount of companys making dsm parts as there was honda's. I am at the point I made my own muufler and intercooler pipe. That plus a couple little things I run 13.68 @ 101 I think that is impressive beacause I didn't rely on anyone to sell me somthing to make me fatser. I did it myself. But this is just my opinon. Thanks for the space

[Jason D]

Hey...lets not forget what makes our DSM's fun to drive...we don't have to be at 8,000 rpm to make power like all those cars!!!!

I just sold my 99 V-Tech Civic because yea, it had 127HP from a 1.9 liter, but at redline!!! Nowhere else. So it is pretty useless, pretty much all of the time. The car felt way more refined than my 97 GS-T, but the DSM is refined enough when it comes to adding it all up...making a nice package.

[ForestTalonAWD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 4npower:
i don't compare my car to hondas just like i don't compare it to vipers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't. The point was about the relative times, not the fact that it's a Viper or Honda. In fact, part of the what I was saying was that they aren't comparable.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>when i see a car at the track or on the street, i don't say "well he runs 14's and i run 12's so i don't respect him. i take a step back and look at the car in general and think what it would have taken to get the car to the stage it is in, including money and time,regardless of the make of the car or the time's it runs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you'd read my post more carefully, you'd see that this is exactly what I was saying. I have utmost respect for anyone who put serious time and effort into their car - that's what it's all about, having fun and modding your car. If that's what they like, then I'm not going to dog on them for doing so, and I'm certainly not going to disrespect them as a person over a car. But at the same time, don't expect me to respect their times. ;)


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1993 Forest Talon AWD - modified

[This message has been edited by ForestTalonAWD (edited September 27, 2000).]

[90 Z24 5spd]

You guys should see the war I'm having in rec.autos.tech with alt.autos.honda (someone crossposted an incindencery post) over Honda engines. This one guy, BlueCivicSiR, is trying to convince me that Honda is the *best* engine manufacturer out there, and the Civic SiR will outrun *any* currently or formerly produced domestic 4 banger. Uh, okay, man.

--Tim

[spoolup]

Not to provoke any harshness but, My wifes car is an 98 prelude, no type sh, but just the regular model, It's bone stock 195hp. When I changed the oil for her last time, and she was at work I took that lil' honda out And It's no joke, got into a spitting macth with a 95 V-8 camaro and proceeded to pass him on the freeway at 120+ mph More than once, lucky to not have picked up a cop for how hard we were both trying to out prove each other. This is a fact not a boast, but once over 90 mph that v-8 could no longer pass me, because of that 7,400 rpm stock redline. Just my opinion, of course, civic or prelude, Honda should be more respected that talked piss about

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Randy on the spot
99 GS-T

[spoolup]

Hey cveclipse,
you remind me of myself I have done more to my ride on my own, with my own trial and error, than what I have purchased from the local speed shop. Good for man!!!!!! I know what you mean.

[AWDkitkat]

I used to have a honda (91 crxsi) and after adding damn near every bolt on in the book and nos i could only pull 13.8 on MT slicks
adding all up my recepts i totaled over $12,000 including some non go fast parts, ground effects, 17's, seats ect. To much damn $$$ to just be another rice boy in the 13's.

[ForestTalonAWD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AWDkitkat:
To much damn $$$ to just be another rice boy in the 13's. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HA!! What a great quote :cool:, that just about sums it all up! Someone needs to get this as the official forum slogan ... :D




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1993 Forest Talon AWD - modified

[AWDkitkat]

Not much "bling bling" with the 1g but ill be damnd if you cant pull the same time with a MBC and free mods.

[lee]

who cares if its NA or turbo,,, bottom line is who gets to the finish first.......

[slipspeed]

I agree. Respect is one thing. Giving props for dedication and hard work ia another. Now...Who trips the lights first? That's a whole different world!

[PNY TMR]

Someone mention that dropping two seconds to achieve 14's, versus achieveing 12's is the same. No, The faster you get the more power it takes to get even faster. Going from a 12.9 to a 12.0, takes alot more of a power increase then it takes to go from a 15.9 to a 15.0. So just becuase a honda finally makes it to the 14's doesnt mean anything. That is easy. Now see how much money they end of having to spend to get any faster.

-Ed

[AWDkitkat]

im not trash talking this is coming from a rehabilataded "rice boy", but would like to see your friend with the crx try and drive to the track with out breaking down and leave on the same tires he was racing on.
to get speeds like that from a honda you sacrifice all streetability. it wasnt worth it to me.

[thrownrods]

i would haveto say that regardless of the cars power or potential or what not, there is much more to that when it comes to cars. i repsect all
the diff attitudes and people that come along with the makes and modles of the cars. the way i see it there just anopther person obsesed with cars..just like me. i may be able to say this becuz in my city 454 big block guys, 1.8 liter v-tec guys, dsm guys..
blown 5.0 guys all hang out at tha same fri nite street races..and its all one nice scene im glad to be a part of.

[Quadcylla]

Well well. This thread looked like it could have exploded into a real sh#t throwing fest. Thanks for keeping your heads guys and not making me have to delete this post :).

I'm kinda torn on the issue. I've always said 'If you want a sports car then at least start with a sports car'. But at the same time I have a lot of respect for some of the Honduh guys out there. Just this weekend I witnessed a fellow Candian friend shoot into the 11's in an all motor CRX. I was more then impressed. But on the other hand it doesn't make any sense to me to get a low end Civic grocery getter and slam a few thousand dollars into it just to go 16s or maybe 15s. Compare that to spending less then a grand on a 1G DSM and running 13's easy. Ack I think I'm going bi-polar here.


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http://geocities.com/r337m0nk3y/dvv/asthanos.gif Quadcylla
92 Laser RS-T FWD

[ouSeven]

its been pretty cool to find out all of the different opinions, im not really sure where i stand now

[turbo=good]

Hey DSM93TALON, one of my friends has a 1G talon nonturbo with just a 5 angle valve job and out runs 5.0's all the time.

[DSMRSTPOS]

well just to add fuel to the fire, a guy i know has a 94 civic coupe, with a GSR swap and Type R head along with usual bolt ons. he ran a 13.6@103 on sreet tires last week at the track..im not a fan of hondas even though i used to own one, but that time is very respectable for an all motor car on street tires, especially for being FWD.

Mike

[Orange Crush]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hey DSM93TALON, one of my friends has a 1G talon nonturbo with just a 5 angle valve job and out runs 5.0's all the time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I find that a little hard to believe!

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1995 GS-T
Perfection Thru Speed
Check it out!!
www.angelfire.com/fl3/nicksdsm/pts/home.htm (http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/nicksdsm/pts/home.htm)

[Redsand187]

I don't have anything against hondas and I don't think most people here do it's more the guys that drive them. Most of the people that drive them brag about their 14.5+ passes totaly stripped and think that their cars are god. The people that actualy race them and know a lot about their cars are actualy pretty cool, because they are realist they know what their cars can do and what type of compition they have. Most people around here have no clue about their cars, there are a few people around he that I have talked to with honda that actualy know what they are talking about, Like a guy with a 95 supercharged accord, and there is guy with a turboed civic and there is one guy with ZEX on his prelude that all are running around 12-13's but when I told them that I wanted to get a GSX Eclipse they all said those thing are awesome cars, their cheap fast and esay to modify. Now on the other hand there are thousands of "ricers" around here with their Type-R badges and all their crap and I tell them I'm going to get a turbo AWD Eclipse and they say "they don't make a turbo eclipse" or "why AWD that makes you slower" or "no big deal my DX can still take you" I just can't wait to get a DSM just to show those punks up. And that is what most of the people on this forum think too, because for ever fast honda there is 1000+ slow ones that think they are fast.

[captain4g63]

This is a comparison between apples and oranges. If your trying to compare your usual Honda "racer" to a
DSM you might has well compare a DSM to a crotch rocket. There is a huge design/weight difference
between the two. Your average Honda weighs about 500 lbs less than an AWD DSM. The difference is
even more extreme when you talking about a stripped Honda. So when it gets down to it you can have a
3200 leather, a/c, full int luxury liner w/ 380bhp (for $2000) or a stripped out pile, no int, a/c, no leather,
and needs a swap (for $3000) to get any were. DSM nearly always beat out Hondas in hp, notice the trap
speeds....


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&lt;no motor&gt;
91 GSX w/ 4 tires

[Junior]

I am new to teh thread but reading teh last few post I noticed something very true, there are ricers and then racers. I have a few friends with all motor civics, gsr or b16 swaps with just a few bolt ons if any and are running mid14s to mid 13s, one of them with a b16 100 shot and full exhaust/intake ran a 13.1 street trimmed no slicks/w stock clutch!!! I have it on video. They are racers, and respect all other cars(especially the DSMS =). Then you have the local ricers always looking for a race with there stickers and when you beat them they tell you that the AEM civic will beat you, these guys are idiots, but its definitly not all of them. You cant really compare the 2 DSM Vs Honda because we are forced induction and they are not. If you were to evan fairly compare them it would be the normal DOHC honda motor(LS) and the Normal DOHC mitsu motor, you can problably guess whos engine is better and last longer. IMO