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Old 11-18-2002, 04:59 PM   #1
oakrai
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Question Newbie Tranny Question

What's up everyone?

About a month ago I bought an 1990 Eagle Talon ES for a really cheap price(SHH!) This car was majorly neglected, I have it about a month and have since givin it a complete tuneup, Tires, rear struts, Swapped the tan Interior to Black and Gray, Alternator, Timing Belt and all motor belts. I recently changed gear lube in my transmission and it started shifting much better. I went from about a .5 qt of flat coke to 3.5 qts of gear lube. I believe I went with a 120w-80 (It was thick). The car started to shift better it won't go into 2nd when it's cold. After 1-2 miles it will go right into second. Now it's developed a condition. After the car gets to operating temp 3 gear grinds no matter How slow or fast i shift. When it's still cold I can grab third quick enough to not let off of the throttle and it still doesn't grind. Only when it's warm. I really don't think it's the synrchos cuz i can flat shift(no clutch) it at 3100-3200 rpms with no grind. I know not good for drivetrains but Its better than grinding. My clutch starts grabbing at about 1/3 of the way off the floor and by 3/4 the clutch is fully holding. I have about an Inch of freeplay in the pedal. Bleed the clutch master cylinder and slave sylinder. what do you guys think is wrong? The shifter is weird in 1st/2nd seems like forcing gears sometimes, No Grind tho. and 2nd to third shift seems off. I will give everything a look over tommorow if it is nice.

I have this narrowed down (I think)
1. Clutch Master Cylinder Rod needs adjustment
2. Clutch Freeplay
3. Shifter/ Shift Linkage needs adjustment
4. The car was run hot by my boss maybe gear lube lost viscosity and is thinning too much.
5. Maybe snycros but i really doubt that

I love this car but man shifting this thing sucks


I wanted to Post this in the Tech forum but I figured u see alot of tranny problems I'd be told to search, and I did do that but every problem is unique and most forums i got as a return query were to the point of my car grinds gears.

If you guys have had this problem or have any good suggestions please let me know, I would really appreciate it.
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Old 11-18-2002, 07:13 PM   #2
1BADDSM
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Our cars are known to be dificult going into second gear. Now there isn't a real fix without having the tranny rebuilt and built up better than new, but most of us here enjoy a light viscosity oil for this. You went the wrong way, you want thinner oil. Try BG Synchroshift or hmm... (GM..?) I know there is another as well, anyway. This oil has a viscosity of about ATF yet it still protects quite well. I could hardly believe the difference when I went from 80w90 to bg, so your difference should be just insane.

~jm
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Old 11-18-2002, 07:17 PM   #3
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btw- the only place I know who sells this is RRE:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfluids.htm

~jm
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Old 11-18-2002, 07:30 PM   #4
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I'm thinking of trying that but i'm also thinking that the 3rd gear grinding is coming from the fluid being too thin it is new but the car has given 4 "GOOD" overheats like pegged to H cooking all the antifreeze out the overflow. I got the overheating problem fixed and I am thinking that the last overheat it had thinned the oil too much because it's regular oil it might have lost viscosity and at a normal operating temp is TOO thin? I dunno does this sound right. When i first did the fluid it shifted mint... now it's really rough... been running 1/2/4 because i don't want to blow 3rd out over a possible fluid problem. I am thinking of running gm snycromesh with some Lucas Tranny seal (it's like molasses) in hopes of Cushioning the synchros. Any other ideas? I have read that if the linkage is off bad enough it can do this... and this car has been in 2 major accidents and is/was beaten. I am trying to "nurse" it back to "health" Thanks
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Old 11-18-2002, 07:53 PM   #5
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I'm not following you here. There is no correlation between the motor being hot and your gear oil breaking down. Manual transmissions run very cool, hence they last a long time. Auto trannies have heat problems, but not manual. Auto trannies heat problems don't do anything with motor temperatures either, just having to shift frequently causes this and kills their life.

Yea GM synchromesh is good as well, but Lucas, I wouldn't do that.... :-/ Anything that incorporates the words "stop leak" in it's description is a no, no IMO.

As far as the linkages, sure they could be off, but might just as well start with the easy stuff and work our way to the harder more complicated things. Really your killing your tranny with that thick of a oil, it just takes a while to coat everything while cold. It's about the same thing as not having anything at all (ok, exagerating) when really cold as it's pretty much grease. Thinner is better, but using pure ATF would eventually eat the synchros so it has to be synethetic mix for trannies.

~jm
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Old 11-18-2002, 08:17 PM   #6
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Thanks for your help I appreciate it... and I don't want to argue with you but if my motor temp goes way up over 180 and my metal transmission is bolted next to it It heats the metal of my transmission. This in turn would heat my transmission fluid to a fairly warm temp. Any Oil base product at 30degrees is much thicker than at 80 degrees. The car was overheated... 4 times to the point were the temperature gauge was past the little H... my car usually runs in between the 1/4 to 1/2 range with a 180 termostat. So I can only imagine that the little H is in the 250-300 range which would kill not only the organic motor oil which turned to black water basically *i already changed it* but it would also kill the viscosity of the gear lube being basically an oil itself. Maybe a Synthetic Oil wouldn't do this but I know regular old gear oil will. The main thing I am worried about is 3rd gear grinding.... It works great until the car warms up to normal operating then it begins to grind *severly*... what I am kinda worried about is putting like a synchromesh or synchroshift in and having it not have enough thickness to keep my synchro from grinding... I have a feeling if i keep grinding 3rd gear i won't have it for long. I'll check into it tommorrow if it's nice... Thanks for the info though 1BADDSM I do appreciate it I'm not trying to sound cocky or anything it's just that I drive the car and I know exactly what it's doing and I think we missed each other during my description

~Dane~
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Old 11-18-2002, 08:31 PM   #7
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You did get this overheating problem fixed right? 1/2 way is good, but full. :-o

While it is close to the motor, it isn't affected much by the motors heat. Most of that is in the cylinder head of the motor. I'm sure this could kill the motor oil and coolant, but inorder for oil to break down it has to hit ~400 degrees. While I've never tried this, I'm sure after driving for hours one should be able to grab onto the manual tranny and be able to keep your hand there.

If you don't trust a product like synchromesh (a rare few have theorized that it speeds up synchro wear) maybe try a synthetic like Redline 75w90. ( www.autoil.com ) I forget now what it protects like, but it seems like it is around 300 level protection with the 75w90 viscosity and better than that for cold temperature properties. Only way it isn't better than your current gear oil is the price.

No problem, just here to help....

~jm
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Old 11-18-2002, 08:37 PM   #8
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9 chances out of 10 it's probally the *road tar* I used for tranny fluid. I'm just wondering why it only grinds after I've been driving it for like 5-10 mins... Anyways i'll call my local parts store and get some Syncroshift or some Redline I'll keep ya posted on what happens...
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Old 11-18-2002, 08:54 PM   #9
1BADDSM
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Talking friggin dsm trannies....

Mine keeps it simple and grinds second almost always, and I can feel a little in third. Anyway... good luck.

On a similiar side note I just bought some 5 packs of these insanely strong magnets (1/8" thick, 1" round, can pick up 30#s) and have atached them to all my drain plugs, I'm eager to see if it actually helped. In 6k miles my X-fer case oil went from pink to a nasty looking color laced with metal.

~jm
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Old 11-18-2002, 09:03 PM   #10
oakrai
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I remember the first DSM i Rode in was like 5 years ago in my friends 94 eclipse and I made fun of him for grinding gears... boy do i feel like an asshole It's an odd transition from my celica grabbing gears with a nice momo shorty and a little yellow shift knob to shifting this butterchurn with a huge knob that DSM called a transmission... sheesh but hey the car does move when i can shift it Well I need a new clutch soon so maybe i can do a quick teardown and rebuild *hopefully not until Jan or Feb tho~* ... got any sites i can get gears and syncros from?
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Old 11-18-2002, 09:23 PM   #11
1BADDSM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oakrai
I remember the first DSM i Rode in was like 5 years ago in my friends 94 eclipse and I made fun of him for grinding gears... boy do i feel like an asshole
LOL, the best is when you put it in reverse leaving somewhere and you think it's in gear, let off the clutch and it pops out/grinds....

Yea, Team Rip is the king of DSM trannies. They rebuild them better than new (literally, they will "rebuild" a brand new tranny if you want them to ) and I'm sure they can get you any upgrade part you could need.

http://www.teamrip.com

With hearing this "it only grinds after I've been driving it for like 5-10 mins... " I have a pretty good feeling your synchros are tired, but this oil should relieve it a little and buy you some more time.

~jm
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