You will need some way to control those injectors. Going with an SAFC is one way to do that.
550s plus fuel control????
I know to run 550's you need some sort of fuel control, I have an aeromotive fpr, data logger and a wide band, is this enough, or do I need a mas-t setup or SAFC????
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I believe the wide band can do it for you, but to fine tune it would be helpful to have a SAFC.
Take care,
David
Take care,
David
Just switch to a 2G MAS while you're at it. Nearly a perfect match.
hmm... i have one if u need to swap to a 2g Mas...talon_1g said:Just switch to a 2G MAS while you're at it. Nearly a perfect match.
find yourself an EPROM ECU and go dig around on the yahoo dsm-ecu list. the 1g ecu is pretty well hacked, you can have total control over fuel, ignition, fuel cut, injector compensation, 2g MAS compensation, add a stutterbox, raise rev limit, etc. i can't believe people still use AFC's to tune *shudder*
hmmm, lots of misinformation is some of these posts
a wideband has nothing do with injector control
the 2g mas swap will not control the larger injectors
the GM MAF, and translator (maft) has some dip switches on it to set base injector size, but they will not deliver the tunability that a SAFC will
EPROM's are a great, but again, they will not deliver tunability that a SAFC will, only get the fuel trims in a general area of where they should be
to run larger injectors you'll need to buy a SAFC - or another kind of piggyback fuel control
a wideband has nothing do with injector control
the 2g mas swap will not control the larger injectors
the GM MAF, and translator (maft) has some dip switches on it to set base injector size, but they will not deliver the tunability that a SAFC will
EPROM's are a great, but again, they will not deliver tunability that a SAFC will, only get the fuel trims in a general area of where they should be
to run larger injectors you'll need to buy a SAFC - or another kind of piggyback fuel control
cool, thanx 
No, but a 2G MAF flows more, so dropping one in with 550s makes the car run perfectly. PLENTY of people have done this in the past with no AFC or anything with no issues.haut said:the 2g mas swap will not control the larger injectors
th
Interesting - I'm aware 1g's use the 2g MAS since it is much larger, but didn't think this would trick the ECU the same way an airflow correction would - makes senseSteve93Talon said:No, but a 2G MAF flows more, so dropping one in with 550s makes the car run perfectly. PLENTY of people have done this in the past with no AFC or anything with no issues.
Still, it is very nice to have a AFC to tune with
Searched the site about this - seems like most of people who do this have no problems at lo throttle/open loop - but after logging their runs, they are no were near a good tune at WOThaut said:Interesting - I'm aware 1g's use the 2g MAS since it is much larger, but didn't think this would trick the ECU the same way an airflow correction would - makes sense
Still, it is very nice to have a AFC to tune with
Hacked 1g MAFs have ran 10's - so it seems the money spent on a 2g MAS + hardware, could be better spent elsewhere
Based on what? Were they using a wideband? I've set up quite a few 1Gs with 2G MAFs and 550s, and their AFCs had to be adjusted no more than a few % to get the AFRs perfect on pump gas. Obviously, every car is different, and on race gas, you'd want it alot leaner, but for a typical street setup, a 2G MAF/550s will run just fine. Hacked 1G MAFs have gone 10s (once - Al Blaha), but a 2G will still flow alot more before it starts missing counts. A 2G MAF is still a cheap alternative to a MAFT, even if you factor in a used 5 knob AFC for fine tuning. If you have DSMlink, a 2G MAF would be your simplest solution for more airflow on a 1G - until V3 comes with native GM MAF support.
i agree. here's some, for instance:haut said:hmmm, lots of misinformation in some of these posts
an EPROM in a 1g allows full control of fuel (meaning you can lean out/richen ANY part of the fuel curve as much as you want), ignition timing, idle, injector compensation (you can run ANY size injector you want, unlike the AFC), MAS (the 2g MAS is plug and play if you know what code to change- and it's all VERY well-documented), you can also raise the rev limit, add launch control etc. there are even people who have a WORKING speed-density conversion for the 1g ECU. explain to me how an AFC can do ANY of that beyond fuel??haut said:EPROM's are a great, but again, they will not deliver tunability that a SAFC will, only get the fuel trims in a general area of where they should be
to run larger injectors you'll need to buy a SAFC - or another kind of piggyback fuel control
piggybacks are garbage. if you're fooling the main load sensor, you're affecting MORE than just fuel. not only are you manipulating timing, but you're also changing how the ECU deals with things like changing airflow, PE, DFCO, etc. every change you make to the fuel side of things screws up the timing side of things, and last i checked, an AFC has NOTHING for timing control. if you feed garbage data INTO the ECU, what do you think is going to come OUT of it???
as i said before, i honestly cannot believe that people STILL continue to use AFC's for tuning when there is a much better (and possibly cheaper) option out there. if he already has an EPROM ECU, it's even CHEAPER than an AFC. a socket costs $6. a chip costs $5. a burner costs $50. the software to edit the chip is 100% FREE. so not only does it offer 10x better tuneability, but it does so for 1/3 the price. all you have to do is EDUCATE yourself.
hmmm, good point there... However for someone who is not comfortable messing with chips and such, the afc is a reasonable alternative. As for the part about putting garbage in and what do you get out....I wouldn't think that 10s and 11s using an AFC for tuning would be the product of garbage. As for the tuneability of EPROMS, sure, you can custom map them however you see fit, but not on the fly. With the AFC you can do so on the road, at the light, whatever the occasion needs. Of course the DSMLink would be far better than either one since it is real time, provides logging, and allows many more options to change than the AFC. The next step would of course be a full stand alone, but they are far from cheap...
just my .02
just my .02
people have also run 10's and 11's on FMU's. doesn't mean it's a good idea. the fact is that when you manipulate the main load sensor, the ECU only has a vague idea of what's going on. leaning out for larger injectors advances ignition timing. lean out too much and you can push the advance curve beyond what the ECU can pull out in case of knock. this is precisely why 3SGTE's can't use AFC's to run larger injectors.. the perceived change in load makes the ECU advance an already extremely agressive ignition map, then POP!! goes the engine. the ignition curve on the 1g's isn't terribly aggressive in the high load cells, but when you start leaning out more than a few %, it BECOMES aggressive and puts the engine in danger.PokeyTSI said:As for the part about putting garbage in and what do you get out....I wouldn't think that 10s and 11s using an AFC for tuning would be the product of garbage.
actually, on the fly tuning is already possible. the rom editor allows the connection of a ROM emulator (look up "moates ostrich") for real-time, on the fly tuning. so, for the cost of an AFC and a little reading, you COULD have pretty much full standalone capability- at least the functions most people use anyway.As for the tuneability of EPROMS, sure, you can custom map them however you see fit, but not on the fly. With the AFC you can do so on the road, at the light, whatever the occasion needs. Of course the DSMLink would be far better than either one since it is real time, provides logging, and allows many more options to change than the AFC. The next step would of course be a full stand alone, but they are far from cheap...
just my .02
lol...DRSully said:I believe the wide band can do it for you, but to fine tune it would be helpful to have a SAFC.
Take care,
David
Anyway, I think everyone basically hit it right on the money; you will need a tuning device to control the injectors and compensate for the extra fuel...
btw: I hope you have an aftermarket fuel pump to go along with this setup, a 255lph should go splendid with the afpr and injectors...I have a feeling you are new to the dsm/tuning game, so post a log before you start cruching down numbers and changing settings...blown engine's from detonation is never fun
We are all aware that DSMlink is the best answer. Not everyone opts to do it though. 99% of the tuning that people do is something that is misleading the computer. While it is not always healthy, it can accomplish what someone desires. I never endorsed it. I just said people do it. I myself never have. If you do not want to "fool" the computer, then no, you should not use any kind of piggy back. You should only do what you can actually program into the computer.ender said:people have also run 10's and 11's on FMU's. doesn't mean it's a good idea. the fact is that when you manipulate the main load sensor, the ECU only has a vague idea of what's going on. leaning out for larger injectors advances ignition timing. lean out too much and you can push the advance curve beyond what the ECU can pull out in case of knock. this is precisely why 3SGTE's can't use AFC's to run larger injectors.. the perceived change in load makes the ECU advance an already extremely agressive ignition map, then POP!! goes the engine. the ignition curve on the 1g's isn't terribly aggressive in the high load cells, but when you start leaning out more than a few %, it BECOMES aggressive and puts the engine in danger.
actually, on the fly tuning is already possible. the rom editor allows the connection of a ROM emulator (look up "moates ostrich") for real-time, on the fly tuning. so, for the cost of an AFC and a little reading, you COULD have pretty much full standalone capability- at least the functions most people use anyway.
Take care,
David
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