Spray sucks IMO. A Boost control you can run at constant high psi if you were too. Nos...well you have to spray when you wanna go fast and yes its hard on your engine and expensif. Just my 2 cents.
Boost Cooler VS Nitrous
I am in the planning stages of my project and am undecided on which way i want to go. I am still new to turbos so figures someone out there might have some useful info.
the question is which one will produce better power results? I have read a lot of good things about boost coolers (snow performance, etc), but since i plan to go with a FMIC it may be overkill. Nitrous is a proven performer but also has the drawback of increasing cylinder pressure over and above what the turbo is doing. Also, boost coolers act as a kind of octane booster (when methanol is used with the water) so you can use more boost. Any thoughts on this anyone?
the question is which one will produce better power results? I have read a lot of good things about boost coolers (snow performance, etc), but since i plan to go with a FMIC it may be overkill. Nitrous is a proven performer but also has the drawback of increasing cylinder pressure over and above what the turbo is doing. Also, boost coolers act as a kind of octane booster (when methanol is used with the water) so you can use more boost. Any thoughts on this anyone?
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What is a boost cooler? I have never heard of this product before.
Uh oh..........I thought the topic said boost CONTROLLER ignore my post 
He's talking about the Ntercooler. The Co2 or No2 kits that douse the intercooler in freezing gas. To me blowing $8 a lb nitrous anywhere but in the engine is fucking retarded. Run a purge solenoid to your front mount and attatch it to a perforated copper tubing circle that goes on your FMIC. Then you purge the lines thru the intercooler, and all that expensive GOOD gas goes into the engine. Simple. Waste not want not.
A boost cooler is basically a a 50/50 mix of methonal and water injected into your intake to cool the charge. it is cheaper than nitrous, it allows you to run higher boost, and as i said the methanol acts as an octane booster to help hold off detonation. Here is a good explanation from MM&FF magazine.
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0407mm_snow/
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0407mm_snow/
Ah... Meth/water injections. Just never heard it called that before. Meth injection or water injection is a good option even if you have done a fmic. I would personally use this to widen the margin of error in tuning and stay on boost alone rather than run NOS.
Meth/water injections should be cheaper to buy and easier/cheaper to install than NO2.
Why not have both, lol
Why not have both, lol
Wow, I was wrong.
I guess I had no idea what he was talking about...
I'm used to "water injection" as the term too.
I guess I had no idea what he was talking about...
I'm used to "water injection" as the term too.
sorry to confuse you guys. i am coming from a chevy/ford building background so we may use different terms (dont hold it against me im leaning to the meth/water injection. you can even use some types of winshield washer fluid as the meth in a pinch. how is that for budget?
im leaning to the meth/water injection. you can even use some types of winshield washer fluid as the meth in a pinch. how is that for budget?
People have had great results with such setups in the past on this board. Cheap and it works well.
Here's a link to what looks like a very complete how built water injection system.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81892
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81892
thanks for the info. i am a complete DIY type so i may try this route.
If you are looking for power and dont want it all the time necessarily the nitrous isn't a bad way to go. You can do a nitrous/propain kit and not have to do anything with a fuel pump too. Propain is cheaper and last longer and is already a vapor. Just a thought..
sneaking in a question:
- I still don't understand one part of the h20/meth injection craze...I know that you can run more boost w/ no knock b/c of the cooler charges, but is it used in the same nature as Nitrous??
----- Do you only spray it during/before a pull or is it always spraying?
People seem to like it a lot, but is it only used for track passes/hard pulls?? If so, how would that make tuning easier?: Won't knock just re-appear once it's not being used...
Confusion City^^^
- I still don't understand one part of the h20/meth injection craze...I know that you can run more boost w/ no knock b/c of the cooler charges, but is it used in the same nature as Nitrous??
----- Do you only spray it during/before a pull or is it always spraying?
People seem to like it a lot, but is it only used for track passes/hard pulls?? If so, how would that make tuning easier?: Won't knock just re-appear once it's not being used...
Confusion City^^^
It is used with a pressure switch, commonly called a Hobbs switch. When you reach a preset boost level (whatever the switch is set for), the spray comes on. Say you are running fine on pump gas at 15psi but want more. Set it up to come on at around 13-15psi and pump up the boost. This requires tuning and testing to see how much more boost you can safely handle, but that is how it works. Also cools the charge and the alchohol/methanol acts as a high octane fuel (ie race fuel) which helps keep you from detonating.
Also, some companies offer kits that will ramp it up or down, depending on the boost. For example you would set it to start spraying at 10% at 15psi and be at 100% by 20psi. Do a search for water/meth injection and you should find plenty of sites that will help you if you are interested. Hope this helps.
As for nitrous, I like using it, but for a boosted app I think water/meth injection might be better, it is definitly cheaper. I know nitrous can give you more HP if you pump up the spray, but then you better have the bottom end ready for it. Thanks for everyones input so far.
Also, some companies offer kits that will ramp it up or down, depending on the boost. For example you would set it to start spraying at 10% at 15psi and be at 100% by 20psi. Do a search for water/meth injection and you should find plenty of sites that will help you if you are interested. Hope this helps.
As for nitrous, I like using it, but for a boosted app I think water/meth injection might be better, it is definitly cheaper. I know nitrous can give you more HP if you pump up the spray, but then you better have the bottom end ready for it. Thanks for everyones input so far.
roughneck9725 said:but then you better have the bottom end ready for it. Thanks for everyones input so far.
Electronic nitrous stage.. slowly brings up the nitrous amount so its not such a harsh smack in the face when it comes on. A guy locally is running a 200 shot on his viper that way.
Water injectionis great if you are not running a fmic. It was developed for indy car mainly as a weight saving tool. If you are going to run a fmic then I would not waste my time. Especialy if you plan on running the laughing gas. I went witha buschur racing race fmic and my next item will be a fogger system. NO2 has a greater cooling effect then water injection which is one of the reasons it produces the kind of power it does. My question to you is what turbo are you ruuning, how much boost, etc. Basicly how far into the upgrades are you?
I agree nitrous will make more power "pound for pound". My main intent with this question was to see peoples successes or failures with both to help me decide. Again, I am from a V8 background. Those motors, which I love, cannot handle the same power levels in stock trim as a 4g63 motor (at least, from what I have read). This is my first 4cyl build and I always plan the build well in advance so I know exactly what I want and can start gathering parts (which I am now doing). As for your question AWD, I am still in the planning stages, no car yet as I am in Iraq and havnt been able to look at any in person, although I am shopping around now as I will be home very soon. I was planning a Mustang build (have the engine in my garage), but changed my mind and decided to do something different for me. Thanks to everyone who has responded and keep em coming. I would like to hear from people who have run both if there are any out there.
I have never used water injection but I had a friend that used it and he liked it. The same with NO2. Now all you have to do is decide how much power you want to make. Are you going to do a 1G or 2g car? I don't know how much money you are going to have so this is going to be a bit hard. The first thing I would do (if I was doing a 1G) is this. Replace the factor MAS with a 2G or a 3" GM mas. Then a turbo back buschur exhaust, Boost gauge ans boost controller, walbro 255 fuel pump, AFPR, act 2600 clutch, then depending on how much power you want I would get a fmic, different turbo, extrude honed or sheet metal intake manifold, different injectors, dsm link. That just about everything for a stage 2 except a external wastegate and a few other goodies. Like I said I don't know how much you will have to spend so it's kinda hard to tell you what I would do, you know. here is a link to my dsm registry page so you can see what I have done to mine.
http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1052
http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1052
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