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I'll give you the basics and let an expert give you the exact details...
1. The 1gen intake manifold and throttle body flow better than the 2gen. There are some expensive aftermarket intakes for real top-end flow out there. The 2gen intake elbow flows better than the 1gen model. This is why alot of UIC pipes come with a 2gen elbow, or a custom one. (DBrode's for example) The 2gen exhaust manifold outflows the 1gen model.
2.Turbos - The 2gen turbo (t25?)is way small but spools quickly and is good for about 15-16 psi max., I think. The 1gen turbo (14b) flows alot more and is good for about 20-21 psi, I believe. The 16g is yet a bigger turbo that will bolt straight up and comes in two versions, small 16g and big 16g. They will flow more air at less psi and thus are more efficient. Then going upwards you have 20g, the Frankenstein series, etc. Generally speaking, the bigger the turbo, the more lag (spool up time) you will have.
3. Injectors - They are simply spec'd. by flow rates. 440, 550, 660, etc. The more air you put in the engine, the more fuel you will need to keep things safe. A bigger flow injector will flow more fuel through it. ie: a 550 inj. flows 110cc more than a 440cc inj. over the same period of time.
Anybody else feel free to add details if I forgot something or I'm wrong somewhere here...

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Rocky Mountain
'91 Talon Tsi AWD - modified
Live, Learn, Love, Bleed DSM...
 

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I own a 2G and a 1G. I recently acquired the 1g to make it an all out performer. I am no expert per se however I can give you my opinion on the performance and upgrade differences between the two based on my experience with the 2G that I have owned for 3 years.

The 1G will cost a lot less performance vs. performance to upgrade.

[1G Pros]
Is lighter.
The intake is bigger (better flow)
The head is bigger (better flow)
Turbos for the most part are a direct bolt on and many choices and benefits available. Engine rebuild kits and blocks are readily available.
More room to work in the engine bay. Can monitor knock sum on a obd I port. The clutch can be easier to change on the 1G.

[1G Cons]
Exhaust manifold doesn't flow like the 2gs but one can fit the 2g exhaust manifold on the 1G simple enough.
Trannies are weaker. The 2G's can retro fit onto the 1G's I'm told. Can someone verify this?

[2G Pros]
Quicker spool up due to a smaller turbo and higher compression. Higher compression helps with spoolup with turbo upgrades up to a big 16G with a stock flowing head.
Better flowing exhaust manifold.
Stronger tranny.

[2G Cons]
The head in stock form cannot flow as well as the 1G. The 1G head can however be retro fitted onto the 2G block or the 2G head can be ported. Getting a stock 2G head to flow more beyond a big 16G turbo upgrade becomes too restrictive. The block IMO is subject to warping under conditions still being determined. As a result a condition known as crankwalk plagues a lot of 2G owners.

The 1G block is cast in Japan and not subjected to crankwak like the 2G's. There are many 1G Blocks out there. There are not very many 2G blocks out there and harder to come by. Some have installed a 1G block on a 2G but not without some work.

The engine compartment is very crowded due to the 2G's cab forward design.
Can't monitor knock sum from the OBD II port.

I purchased the 1G under the impression that the suspension is a lot rougher ride and susceptible to more tranny grinds then the 2G. The 1G suspension handles and rides just as well as the 2G stock for stock and the tranny shifts better on my 1G then my 2G unlike what many 2Grs would have you believe.

Bill Norton
98 TSiAWD
91 TSiAWD
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks guys. Anyone else?

I'm familiar with Turbos, injectors, electronics, etc. I've had 3 Mopar Turbos, a 92 AWD Talon, 4 Buick Turbos (3 GN's)1 280zx turbo, 1 Thunderbird Turbo. Im a ASE Master Auto and HD truck tech and L1 Advance Engine performance certified also. :)

I was thinking about a 1G AWD hoping for a high 12 with pretty much stock stuff and tuning (except the stock clutch) Then low 12s/high 11's with internal mods and upgrade parts (turbo, injectors, etc)

So on the 1G is there a preference of certain parts on certain year models?

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Mike Smith
87 Buick Turbo
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www.turbomike.com
 

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Parts that are better on 1G:

Cylinder head, intake manifold, throttle body, turbo, intercooler (bigger core but smaller inlets and outlets), Blow-off valve (metal vs. plastic leaky 2G BOV)

Parts that are better on a 2G:

Exhaust manifold, o2 sensor housing, higher compression pistons, transmission, MAS, throttle body elbow, better designed turbo oil supply line, fuel system runs at higher fuel pressure, redesigned lash adjusters

Pretty much everything listed as better for the 2G is retrofittable to the 1G.

If I think of anything else, I'll edit the post ;)

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Brian
Wildberry '95 TSi AWD



[This message has been edited by Genius (edited October 01, 2000).]
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

Is it worth the money to stroke a 2g eclipse? i heard you can put the 2g cylender head on a 6 bolt 1 g short block and than port that to 2.4L would that be ideal
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

That question depends a lot on the purpose of the car. if you want to build a car that you don't mind revving to the moon you can stick with a 2.0 if you are looking for some stump pullin torque then you might want t o look at a 2.4. I do know that the 1g head is preferred over the 2g head. there is a list on vfaq I think that tells you all the differences.
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

TurboMike said:
thanks guys. Anyone else?

I'm familiar with Turbos, injectors, electronics, etc. I've had 3 Mopar Turbos, a 92 AWD Talon, 4 Buick Turbos (3 GN's)1 280zx turbo, 1 Thunderbird Turbo. Im a ASE Master Auto and HD truck tech and L1 Advance Engine performance certified also. :)

I was thinking about a 1G AWD hoping for a high 12 with pretty much stock stuff and tuning (except the stock clutch) Then low 12s/high 11's with internal mods and upgrade parts (turbo, injectors, etc)

So on the 1G is there a preference of certain parts on certain year models?

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Mike Smith
87 Buick Turbo
[email protected]
www.turbomike.com
Hey.

Id go 1g, you will simply go faster easier... Engine mods aside, stock weight 2gs are heavy pigs . A factory 2g GSX, depending on its features can weigh up to 3400 lbs without driver i believe.. I have my 1gs weight down to 2750 with me in it.

Also, the 6bolt 1g block is strong. If well maintained and tuned right, you wont need internals to your damn near doing 130 + mph traps in my opinion.

Stroking a motor is a good idea for streetability and gives a better feel on a bigger turbo, but its a bad idea for old stock beat up drive train parts as its just more torque... Id build a 8k rpm 2.3/ 2.4 if i had the money though.

The 1g of choice you should get is same model i have

Why..

4bolt rear end, stronger than the 3 bolt rear end

6bolt engine, which is stronger than 7bolt motor
(thicker rods, less prone to Crankwalk.)

Also save yourself headache and just get a AWD and not a FWD model.

Therefore for that combo i believe it will have to be a 1992;
which also in that case youd be more prone to get an eprom ecu.
Mines had it, this ecu allows you to get your ecu reprogrammed thru chipping, non eproms cant do this and are only subject to piggy back tuning which sucks ass and is for ametures in my opinion.

Last but not least, ( especially if your not partial to looks)

Id get an Laser model over the Talon and the Eclipse because they are more rare and they weigh almost 100 lbs less straight out the factory...
Maybe that is being a little biased though lol

Either way be patient and do it right the first time... The right one will come along.. Good luck.
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

Holy OLD thread, Batman!
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

Wow this thread is 8 years old. But i prefer 2g eclipses because they look so damn sexy!!! And crankwalk is overrated anyway. I just rebuilt my 7bolt and it runs like a champ.
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

Did I dig this old thread up , sorry if i'm beating a dead horse but Im a new guy. I have the 98 GSx and the motor only has 77 k on it I started posting becouse I am finally starting to build it and my mechanic claims that it will have no torque untill 4000 RPM's I was just worried about the daily driving in traffic. With the evo 3 big 16g on there
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

Start your own thread.
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

98gsxjeff said:
Did I dig this old thread up , sorry if i'm beating a dead horse but Im a new guy. I have the 98 GSx and the motor only has 77 k on it I started posting becouse I am finally starting to build it and my mechanic claims that it will have no torque untill 4000 RPM's I was just worried about the daily driving in traffic. With the evo 3 big 16g on there
Your mechanic is a douche bag. It will "have no torque until 4000 RPM's" if you have massive boost leaks.
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

Lol, on a 4G63, tourqe is our middle name! lol:) But seriously if i were u, i'd do the 6bolt bottom end, fully built with a built 2g head, arps beastly hg etc and huge cams and go from there. I prefer the 2g head because although the 1g head flows more from the factory, the 2g head is obviously newer design meaning better technology and also there is way more metal that can be machined to outflow any 1g heads.
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

MuffinMan7580 said:
Start your own thread.
No, reviving the old thread with the same question already asked was the correct thing to do. That means he searched before adding to the clutter.
 

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Re: Clear up somethings

I cant see to start new threads anywhere I'm restricted I cant look at some of the web pages either don't really ge that ,
ppl on here are a big help tho thanks.,
I do plan a whole 6 bolt short block build but that is a whole other ball of wax i have owned this Dsm for 5 years stock two of which its sat around with a broken clutch so im just so stoked on getting it up and running finally modified.
I am trying to reason with this guy and there are not many choices around Albany but he is hot shit guy with a VR4. So i just want him to bolt it up and get it running for me to drive to PRUVEN Engineering
 
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