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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am planning on getting a whole new exhaust for my 91 TSi AWD. I know exhaust plays a major role in turbo cars and I was wondering how much more gain of power I will get with a turbo-back exhaust opposed to a cat-back exhaust. I want to get the Thermal R&D Catback, but am also thinking about spending more $ to get the whole turbo back being that I should be gaining a decent amount more HP then a catback. How much HP will I gain compared to the stock exhaust with a catback or a turboback? Thanks so much!



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91TSiPower
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
 

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I suggest just putting on the entire turbo-back exhaust at one time. It'll probably be cheaper (labor-wise), and you'll see more gain than just the cat-back. If you do decide to use a test pipe as part of the package, you should port the turbo first or else you'll have some major boost creep. With a 2.5" cat you should be fine.
 

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I suggest calling up Mike or Ty at RRE, or check www.roadraceengineering.com and order yourself the 2.5" 1st bend, a 3" cat, a 3" Magnaflow muffler, and all the flanges and gaskets you'll need.
After that, take your care package to an exhaust shop (unless you or someone you know can weld, then just buy some straight pipe and some bends) and have them bend and weld everything for you.

I spent a total of $325 (inc. shipping) with RRE, then another 150 at an exhaust shop, and I had a full 2.5" dp and 3" cat/catback. I also had flanges welded onto the cat and pipes so I can swap in a test pipe if I want. Very sleek :)

Anyway, IMO "homebrew" exhaust is the way to go. I have all mandrel bent pipe, and all stainless steel. My total cost (~$500) is less than just a Catback from most of the major vendors... you don't even want to compare the price of my turboback and the ones you can buy online :D

Anyway, there's my nickel before taxes.

-M

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92 TSI AWD
2.5" DP, 3" cat, 3" catback
MBC @ 14 psi
Autometer Phantom Boost
Gauge & A Pillar Pod
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What exactly is a test pipe? And do I need one? Is that a downpipe? Im so confsued. Also, how much more HP will I gain with a turbo back opposed to a catback?

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91TSiPower
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
 

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A testpipe is nothing more than a piece of pipe that replaces the catalytic converter, in order to increase flow. I'm not sure what else it does, but they're rather cheap, and add a few horses as well.

The advantagee of a turboback over a catback are these:

1. You don't have to do the rest later.
2. An aftermarket downpipe is $150+. The 1st bend from RRE is $30. Flange = 12. Pipe = few more bucks. waaaay cheaper than buying one somewhere.
3. You'll flow a lot more with an aftermarket downpipe than with just a catback, too. Probably 5-10 horses, would be my guess.

-M

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92 TSI AWD
2.5" DP, 3" cat, 3" catback
MBC @ 14 psi
Autometer Phantom Boost
Gauge & A Pillar Pod
 

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Hmm... I doubt 45-60.

Probably 30, at most... however, it's definitely enough to feel the difference in teh butt-o-meter!

-M

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92 TSI AWD
2.5" DP, 3" cat, 3" catback
MBC @ 14 psi
Autometer Phantom Boost
Gauge & A Pillar Pod
 

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If I could do it over; I would do exactly what Mike 92Tsi says. I went the fast and expensive route. Order part, receive part, bolt on.
As far as hp:just ballpark guesses here ;)
depending on engine health...
cat-back = 15-20 hp
turbo back w/hi flow cat = 45-60 hp
Myself, having done it in steps; cat-back and later hi-flow cat w/ downpipe. I can tell you that each piece adds considerable power, by simply allowing the engine to breathe.
If you can do it all at once, cheaply, you will be a happy, fast man! With more money for more mods... ;)
BTW - a custom Extreme/Thermal turbo-back is about $1100, I think.

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Rocky Mountain modified Talon
Live, Learn, Love and Bleed DSM...

My DSM
 

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Hey Van, 45-60 Horsepower for a full exhaust??? really? wow that's a lot... did anyone prove that on a dyno or something... that's a lot.
 

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Damn it, here we go again!! :rolleyes: Everytime someone asks "How much hp will I get from X mod?", there's a debate on how much power it will add. The problem is that the exhaust really can add different horsepower increases on different cars, DEPENDING ON WHAT OTHER MODS YOU HAVE. This is true for all cars, but much more so on a turbocharged car.

A turbo-back exhaust will contribute more horsepower on an already-modded car than on a stock car. This may seem like common sense, but apparently creates a lot of confusion.

Example: If you take a stock 1991 Tsi AWD and add a turbo-back exhaust, you'll probably see a hp gain of ~ 30 hp. BUT, take the same 1991 TSi AWD that already has a K&N, 95 manifold, ported turbine housing, and is running 17 lbs boost, and your'e likely to easily get another 50 hp out of your car. Your engine is a system, and modifications work together. This means that X mod doesn't give XX.XX horsepower on everyones car, it depends on what else you've done to your car, boost levels, state of tune, etc.

So, 91 TSiPower, your question is really a difficult one to give a definitive answer to. However, I'd suggest going with the full turbo-back exhaust to begin with, using a hi-flo cat. Also, unless you have money to burn, having a custom job done using the muffler of your choice is really your best bet. The custom 3" turbo-back w/ hi-flo cat and dynomax superturbo muffler on my Talon was ~ $500 all told, if I remember correctly. That's a little less than the price most vendors want for just a 3" cat-back.


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1993 Forest Talon AWD - modified

[This message has been edited by ForestTalonAWD (edited October 18, 2000).]
 

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Forrest is right.

The only thing I'd do differently is go with a 2.5" downpipe instead of a 3" unless you plan on serious power, like 20g+

-M

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92 TSI AWD
2.5" DP, 3" cat, 3" catback
MBC @ 14 psi
Autometer Phantom Boost
Gauge & A Pillar Pod
 

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Good call ForestTalonAWD, I forgot to mention about other mods...and my figures were just guesses :D as stated.

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Rocky Mountain Talon - modified
Live, Learn, Love and Bleed DSM...

My DSM
 

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How loud are the Dynomax and Magnaflow mufflers? Are they louder than the 3" Thermal?

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95GSX
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ohmygawd:
How loud are the Dynomax and Magnaflow mufflers? Are they louder than the 3" Thermal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler on my Talon - 3" inlet, two 2.5" outlets. Combined with a 3" downpipe, 3" hi-flo cat, and 3" catback, it's pretty loud, but not unruly. Has a deeeep tone to it, NOT tinny or buzzy. For me, it's just the right loudness - sounds like it means business, but won't really turn heads. Again, keep in mind that the diameter of your piping and whether or not you have a cat has A LOT to do with how loud your exhaust is.

Hope this helps,


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1993 Forest Talon AWD - modified
 

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The straight thru design of the 2.5" dynomax muffler is VERY loud. I'd recommend another.

You might as well get the downpipe a well, because it's gonna need replacing soon. My 1990 talon DP leaked back in March. Not bad for a stock exhaust system lasting 10 years and 200,000+ km. Your 91 may need replacing soon. My setup was a 2.5" downpipe,2.5" cat, 2.5" dynomax all mandrel bending. The performance gain was phenomenal with a slightly modded car (boost 15-16psi). I'm estimating around 45hp gain. My stealth TT unforunately didn't benefit much HP gains from a catback alone.
 
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