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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am very confused about my new Frank II turbo. I was told it flowed more air than a 20g. Feels about the same to me. But the part throttle compressor surging is driving me nuts! Has anyone else had this problem, and is there any solution?

I was told clipping the turbo would help, but I would prefer to see it gone for good.

I can't for the life of me understand why no one has ever complained about this on the Digest...

TIA

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Purple Plymouth Guy
1992 AWD Laser
 

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Only time I had compressor surging problems with my Frank 3 was during WOT from low RPM AFTER I put on an HRC O2 housing eliminator down pipe. Mine is currently set up with the upgraded internal wastgate from TRE. I am switching to a Forced Performance 3" O2 housing with a Tial wastgate to get ride of this problem.

Later,

Keith

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Best pass to date 12.817 @ 108.42 with a 1.786 60'. Not bad for a 4 door huh?

Dyno sheets at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/1635/Galant_info.html

PS: Yeah, I know that time is slow for that dyno sheet. This track sucks!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ForceFED:
A buddy of mine had a TRE Frank 2 on his 1g AWD. Franks suck plain and simple. 4th and 5th would always compressor surge and occasionallly 3rd too at part throttle. Jon replaced the frank with a ported and clipped big 16. The car feels faster at every RPM and he also improved his ET's by just under a half second. Whoever said a frank 2 is equivalent to a 20g is smoking some good ****. Here's an opinion of franks I picked up somewhere else on the net.

Frank1 = ported 14b with bad lag
Frank2 = 16g with bad lag
Frank3 = ported big 16G with bad lag
Frank4 = unclipped ported 20G with bad lag
Frank5 = same as BR 20g but with bad lag
Frank6 = Better call Jeff Hill

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

jeez, i don't know where you get your info from but the frank series turbo's are some of the most efficent turbos on the market. i'll be more specific...the garrett compresser wheel is probaly the most efficent on the market, and what do all frank turbo's have for a compresser wheel...garrett compresser wheel. starting with a frank-1, it has 10cfm more then a regular 20g, that's not much but go with a frank-3 with a 3" inlet and you got 690cfm, that's 40 more then a regular 20g. i personally wouldn't start with anything less then a frank-4 though. the only bad thing about frank turbo's is that they use mitsubishi center and exhaust sides. i'd take a garrett turbo over a mitsu anyday.

bill

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95 tsi-awd
91 tsi-fwd
95 civic turbo
82 gti
 

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A buddy of mine had a TRE Frank 2 on his 1g AWD. Franks suck plain and simple. 4th and 5th would always compressor surge and occasionallly 3rd too at part throttle. Jon replaced the frank with a ported and clipped big 16. The car feels faster at every RPM and he also improved his ET's by just under a half second. Whoever said a frank 2 is equivalent to a 20g is smoking some good ****. Here's an opinion of franks I picked up somewhere else on the net.

Frank1 = ported 14b with bad lag
Frank2 = 16g with bad lag
Frank3 = ported big 16G with bad lag
Frank4 = unclipped ported 20G with bad lag
Frank5 = same as BR 20g but with bad lag
Frank6 = Better call Jeff Hill
 

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What do you guys mean by compressor surging? Do you mean power is surging? Usually when I hear compressor surge it is in reference to the inability of the bov to vent pressure quick enough.
 

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The Franks use a Garrett compressor wheel, but they don't use the Garrett compressor housing. I don't actually know how that affects it. I have heard a few people complain about premature bearing failure on the Franks though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am wondering what the downpipe would have to do with it. I have an 02 eliminator DP too (not Hahn's)

I think the lag is minimal on my turbo, its spools faster than my old 20g. But the part throttle surging is killer. It seems to take the drivability away from the car if you always have to drive around the surging.

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Purple Plymouth Guy
1992 AWD Laser
 

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mark we need you to clear the air if you will. When you say surging you need to be more clear. Do you mean the CAR is surging as in your not changing the throtal and the car picks up and then drops of and the cycle starts again

OR,

Compresser surge when your getting a fluttering from the turbo. Kinda like a Wubba wubba wubba ( hard to do this in type =-)

Both of the above nameed have nothing to do with surging.

What W/G do you have on the car? If stock set up is it a larger flapper? what size falppers (BTW I hate ALL flappers, all are a joke works stock and lower limits but not high HP cars)

About the Frank thing please start a new post if your going to go on about them. Lets keep on topic :cool:
 

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The surging my buddy felt was kind of like this. If you wnated to accelerate in 4th or 5th mostly part throttle but even full throttle sometimes....the car would start to pick up and build boost then boost would fall off and the could would kind of like buck. Almost as if you hit fuel cut but not nearly as hard. This would continue for several repititons then accelerate normally. Needless to say it was extremely annoying. We tried many many different things to resolve this but to no avail.

As for the effiency of the franks and how good they are. I could careless what kind of effiency numbers they claim to have. I care how they perform. And from what I have seen so far from other peoples experience they're nothing great. Just my .02
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK here goes.
I have an HKS external wastegate and 02 eliminator downpipe (as seen here http://www.ppg.trends.ca/images/ppg-new-pics/PPGengine2.jpg )
The wastegate hole of the turbo housing has been bored out to help increase the flow and the turbo is ported. The turbine wheel is not clipped though.

I am refering to the wubba wubba thingy like you describe. I was told that THAT was compressor surging. I called it surging for shortbecause compressor is such a long word :D

I am happy with the turbo, just not the part throttle or low RPM compressor surging and want to know if anyone else out there has fixed it, or did you just learn to live with it.

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Purple Plymouth Guy
1992 AWD Laser
 

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Mark, that sounds very odd. The compressor should not be surging if you have a bypass valve in line with the turbo output. What BOV are you using? If it is an aftermarket model where you set the base opening pressure, you may want to adjust the base to open a bit sooner.
 

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Mark PPG--that is what I thought you meant by surging! :) The surging like you are describing should have nothing to do with your Frank it has to do with your bov. If you are using an adjustable one I would imagine that it is set to stiff and if you are using a 1g I would think it cant vent the air quick enough when the throttle plate is closed or is damagad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Green, not to be an ass :D

BUT what does a BOV have to do with part throttle exceleration? Its not surging while I shift...its low RPM WOT and part throttle boost.

I didn't have this problem with my 20g (exact same setup, no changes but the turbo)



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Purple Plymouth Guy
1992 AWD Laser
 

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Kevin, the fastest AT DSM, runs a frank 3. I noticed he surges also after finishing his burnout, and I have about 50 runs of mine on tape with my 20G and it does not do that. Weird...
 

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Mark PPG: I know this is off the subject but [email protected] that is one CLEAN engine bay! :)
 

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Hey dsm4eva,

Is this Chris? If so did you ever get that broken axle out. It was too bad you had to leave the DSM V them event.

And yes Kevin is the second fastest AT DSM. However Russ Has a AWD a huge garrett and NOS. And kevin is FWD and no NOS. without NOS kevin is by far the fastest.
 

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Yes its me! :) The axle swap was easy! I used a screwdriver to pound the broken axle out from the otherside. I replaced both axles as the passenger side was showing some fretting wear on the spline. Kevin and I were at Milan last night, I ran a 12.604 @ 117 for best ET and a 12.710 @ 119.7 for best MPH. Kevin STILL hasn't broken into the 11s and as it got colder traction was harder to get.
 

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Mark- the reason I was suggesting that it was bov related was because that is the only thing that I have heard that is related to the compressor surge problem (fluttering). I would not think it has anything to do a power fluctuation.
 
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