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Discussion Starter #1
It is a 1991 Talon TSI Auto/AWD The car idles high and starts easily. The motor sounds like a loud chatter or knock near the bottom right hand of th motor where all the pullies are. It use to make a loud vibration noise but now its louder. there is no metal shavings in the pan or filter either. The car does smoke alittle bit white. the head and belts were done recently im not sure if the countershaft is messed up or if something is going to go. it is loud and Im afraid to drive it. Any suggestions to take apart or try to fix let me know Id appreciate it. Other than that im thinking of doing a jdm swap(will it fit my auto AWD tranny?). Thanx alot.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok Im not sure if its the pullies cuz the sound is constant with engine rpm and is like a knck. Im going to figure out how to drop the driveshaft and stuff to take the pan off and might as well replace the rod bearings. Im also going to see how to take out the rear balanceshaft do the rear bearings need to come out of them too? Ill leave the front one in. Also ill have to see how to retime the engine so I dont smash up my new head.
 

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replace the water pump
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Im going home tonight to take off the stuff in my way and look at the crank pulley. Not sure where the water pump is but ill find, the noise is the loudest knock I have heard in a car but still seems to be on the right side of the motor. i just hate to keep on testing pullies and start the car over and over in case it is a bearing. Is there a way to cut the balancer shaft belt off and start the motor and then see if there is noise? will that rule those out as the proble? thanx guys first DSM'er
 

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If you cut the balance shaft belt the front engine shaft will not spin, but the oil pump driven gear shaft will. As it is turned by the oil pump itself.
This will STILL result in an "out of phase" vibration akin to OMG, my shits going to blow up.
You need to get the removal kit, or atleast the oil pump b/s stub. That's all you really need, as you can leave the front shaft in to prevent removing/installing new bearings. (Which is a BIG pita) The oil pump side b/s bearings don't have a feeder groove like the front side ones. That's why you need to block them, or oil will just blast out of the holes with no resistance.
I'm getting some shitty vibe/harmonics when the engines cold that sounds like its coming from the same place. I don't have b/s and I installed a new water pump AND idler pulleys for the timing belt. (I did use a 1G crank pulley since my 2g walked apart) But originally had no such problems.
It developed after 2-3 weeks of driving the vehicle.
I let it hit op temp (2-5 min idle) and it fine. It won't make any noise at idle.
No clue, my bottom end has 161,000+ on it.
(to my knowledge) So I'm running stock boost to avoid the obvious. No tap, knock, or smoke. (could be rebuild gremlins) The rest of the car was kept in really good shape, so it could have been overhauled. I'm thinking its the water pump tho. (I'm not running a thermo, due to overheat in the beginning, now its fine, I'm just lazy and haven't put it back in.) But the style of the pump angered me. It looked like a 1g brake rotor style pump, instead of the 2g OEM open face bent fan style. I asked 50 times "are you sure? if its wrong I will come back and shoot you". But it still never sat with me. Sounds like pump howl but with more vibe. I'm basically online with the same problem. If I get anywhere I'll post it. Could be anything tho, its been "my car" since July... someone else's for 10 years. :rolleyes:
I think the knock sensor is picking up on it tho, as it gets sluggish when its doing it. Then pulls 200% better when its warm. (I used perfectly cleaned & tested, or brand new parts when I rebuilt the top end. To avoid trouble shooting shitty parts.)
I've already changed out my "break in new parts oil & filter" so all my assembly lube & such is flushed already...
Keep going down the list... :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
well i drained all the oil and it was sark but smooth and clean. i didnt see anyhing that resembled metal shavings or sparles at all. Rotated the crank by hand and didnt hear too much and it had hard compression. i have the oil drain tube and wheel off ready tot ake off exhaust and transfer case/drivehsaft. I plan to replace all the rod bearings and remove the rear balance shaft. Can I access the rear balance shaft with the belts still on or do I got to take off all the accesories and belts and pullies and gears to the timing belt setup??? Getting more progress everyday(have every evening to work on the car all week!!!...thats a first...lol) any tips on redoing the bottom end will be appreciated. thanx.
 

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My car made similar noises and it turned out to be my crank pulley. Check it thorougly and make sure your dampener (the rubber thing around the pulley) hasn't separated from the pulley.
 

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once the crank pully rubs through the timing belt cover it can make an aweful squealling noise that's intermittant
 

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It can also walk into the timing belt or trigger plate for the crank angle sensor (2g) and cause reactor meltdown. As was the case on mine.
Replacing that pulley as soon as I can JIC.
Because now that I think about it it sounds just like when I was running the engine with no pulleys to see where I was leaking. (bolt in the crank pulley no actual pulley, just the timing belt part of it) You could see it "walk" a bit from not being tightened alot. Same noise. Maybe I'll give it a crank in the mean time... I only had it off 1400 times when rebuilding...
:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I got my balance shaft removal kit. Im only going to remove the rear one and cut the front belt. I have the driveshaft and transfer case out of the car. And I took off all belts and Im ready to do the rod bearings and balance shaft. All pullies as well as the crank seemed to spin smooth but A/C pump was a lil noise like light sand in it? I ripped up the timing belt cover splash thing it was a P.I.T.A. So Im hoping the bearing replacement and I might do the water and oil pump while its apart and some gaskets and seals. I did a compression test while the car was cold so not sure how much it differs. I got 45psi in #1, 60-65 in cylinders #2,#3,#4. So I dont know what that means I wish i did it while it was hot and I did the the throttle open and cranked it like 4 times over by hand. Any advice id appreciate it. Thanx. 1st timer DSM and its all in pieces...lol..
 

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why are you chagning bearings in it again?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Um sorry if you got confused this whole post is about my engine noise. I post everyday or two on my progress and what Im going to replace. I havent done anyhting to the car ive only had it a week now. Im going to change the rod bearings now that i have all the parts off the car and get rid of the balance shafts. I did the compression check in the middle of taking stuff apart. I will be putting in the bearings this week whether their bad or not might as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I took off the oil pump today, also loosened all the bolts from the bottom cover that goes onto he block and pan. Is this necessary to do in order to remove the balanceshafts, also some wierd square altenator bolt is in the way too. ima get the oil pan off and pry that cover off when I get all the bolts then its bearing time!!!. Thanx guys...Still need some tips...
 

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eh, if the bearings aren't bad then why take a chance on screwing up your tolorances...it's not jsut pop out pop in you ahve to measure tolorance with plastigauge and if they're not in spec then what are you going to do.....are you a machine shop? no offence but rod/main bearing swapout isn't for someone who's asking for advice on what the chattering is and talking about a weird square bolt on the alternator......
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I wasnt looking to make this project a huge affair, I do hav tools to measure since I did work in a mchine shop for two years. If I have to grind the crank or get a new one Ill either sell the car or find another motor. I thought Id give this a try, I dont see how the noise could be this loud and not be the bottem end?
 

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you should just pull the pan and check for bearing play you said there was no metal in the oil....well if there's no metal in it then how can it be the bearings
 

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Could be a rod bolt not a bearing. That'll make some noise...
:eek:
Once warm mine stops.
I tried looking around and I cant figure mine out.
So I'll do it the old fashioned way.
Turn up the boost and FIND IT
Preferably before I'm laying on my back in snow
putting in the 6 bolt bottom end.
 

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if a rod bolt was loose enough to rattle the bearing would have spun
 
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