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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did search.. I cant find anything that relates to my problems. Wrong keywords probly. But please bear with me.

Im not new to DSM's but this is my first motor build. Had lots of professional help though.

I just rebuilt my 6 bolt in my 92 AWD Talon. New Rods, pistons, bearings, water and oil pump, seals, ARP everyting, BC 272's. Balance shaft removal.
950's.

Problem 1...
I did the inital 20 mile break in during this I noticed that my brakes SUCK!! They where rock solid and I had to push on them very hard to even slow down. I knew cams effected the brakes because of low vacume but this dosnt feel right at all. After a few miles I pushed on the breaks and the pedal just sunk to the floor. I had to pump them a few times then they returned to rock solid and hard as hell to push. The drivers side brake was rusted from sitting two monts in my driveway. While driving the brake got quite hot. Had some smoke. So maybe I toasted a caliper.

Problem 2...
On the way home something started to squeel. I cant quite tell where its comming from. I pulled off the upper timing belt cover and theres a small amount of oil on the timing belt. I noticed my oil pressure dosnt build up like it did on the inital start up. It only goes up halfway between zero and the first notch. Maybe the oil pump is trying to sieze? I lubed everything during assembly and primed the hell out of the motor before start up.

Problem 3... Probly cant help me here..
On deceleration around 3500 Rpm something rattles prety bad then goes away after 3000. It isnt there on acceleration. Sounds like a pressure plate for some reason..

Problem 4...
Im in a hotel room 500 miles away from my baby for a week, its about 2AM and all I can think about is this sh1t so I cant sleep... :( So im sorry for any typing errors, misspellings, or just plain crap.

Any advise or recomendations would be great.

Thanks alot guys.
Bob..
 

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The problem with your brakes is most likely air in the line. I don't know which caliper youre talking about, as there are two on the driver's side. Whichever one you took off, try and bleed that line.
As for the squeeling, I'm guessing it could be a loose belt, esp since you said its a fresh motor. A tensioner, maybe the alternatior, could have shook loose, causing a belt to squeel. That, however, should be fairly easy to figure out.
The rattling could be tons of things, but as it only for 500rpm, and only on decel, I wouldn't worry to much about it, as long as you are confident you've tightened all the nuts and bolts you played with. It could also just be exhaust rubbing, or a clamp loose or something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry. Its the front drivers side caliper. But none of the brakes have been dis conected, just unbolted and tied up.
 

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If that caliper is seized, which it likely is, it may be getting so hot after driving that it's actually boiling the brake fluid. When this happens, the pedal will get mushy and eventually hit the floor. as the fluid boils, it changes to a gaseous state, which can be compressed under pressure. Brake fluid, or any liquid for that matter, doesnt readily compress, which is why it's used to transfer pressure from the brake pedal to the calipers (kind of an over simplification of the brake system, but you get the idea).
 

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For problem #2: you will have to remove the covers to gain access to the timing components, and find where your oil leak is coming from. An oil saturated timing belt is the opposite of good. Repair your oil leak, and strongly suggest REPLACING your timing belt again (I know this sucks, but better safe than sorry). As for the low oil pressure, it could be anything, since the engine was rebuilt. Reccomend connecting an oil pressure guage to find out what it really is, compare it to spec, and go from there. Also, when you did the balance shaft elimination, did you install new balance shaft bearings so the oil holes dont line up? If not, that will lose you some oil pressure. Just some thoughts.
 

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For problem #3: Does the noise go away when depressing the clutch? Some things come to mind; Are the flywheel bolts loctited and torqued? Is there a possibility of the cause of problem #2 also causing problem #3? These may be things you'll want to look into, and let us know.
 

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My suggestions are as follows:

Prob 1: Make sure you retained the check valve in the vacuum hose running to your brake booster. This basically keeps your booster from being pressurized while driving, which will make it rock solid. Rather should I say it works as a pressure regulator to make sure only vacuum flows towards the booster. It is in the line itself so you may have cut it by accident. Other than that I would make sure that your brake system is properly bled. Also +5 on the caliper check as well. Cams really have nothing to do with your brakes.

Prob 2: Obviously you would need to get down there and take the timing covers off and investigate the leak. First culprit is obviously the oil pump, it may not be sealing properly, secondly I would check your front main seal for leakage, as it is in that same area as well. Thats really the only thing in the vicinity of the belt that could leak oil onto it. If its on the belt and the valve cover is not leaking, then it must be making its way onto the oil pump sprocket somehow, so it has to be one of those.

Prob 3: I would say this is most likely something caused by vibration. It could be something as simple as a loose piece slapping a drive belt. My guess would be either your shift linkage is sagging and contacting the exhaust due to vibration, or the exhaust itself is hitting due to a bent hanger or something. I really doubt its the pressure plate as that would destroy alot of shit should it become loose. Are you having problems engaging and disengaging the clutch at all? Hopefully you torqued everything to spec.


Your low oil pressure is the first thing you need to address. Hopefully you clearanced your bearings and other components of you build properly, as these can all affect oil pressure. The oil pump itself does not actually create pressure. The pressure is created as the pump pushes oil through the various clearances in you engine block. If these clearances are too large you will lose quite a bit of pressure. Also check your pump itself, your pressure sender, and did you happen to port the filter housing? Any problems with the filter? Removing your balance shafts also effects pressure. Although its got nothing to due with your problems, make sure you seat your rings correctly. In case you don't know how to do this, make some higher rev pulls and engine brake back down to a reasonable speed (low revs) to create a heavy vacuum within the cylinder. Rinse and repeat quite a few times. This is better than just driving on them and hoping they seat, as you will usually screw yourself out of quite a bit of compression. Newly built engines are finicky man, weird things can happen at first. Just make sure to address those things of most concern and seat your rings properly and she'll be okay.

Sorry for the long, winded post. Update us on how it goes.
 

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Oh yeah man, take it easy until you figure out what's up with the oil pressure, as oil issues can lead to spun bearings. Also make sure to reference you reading from the filter housing itself, and not an electronic gauge or the pressure sensor, that way you know you have a true and accurate reading.

Oh yeah as for the oil on the belt, I was thinking since you said you installed cams. I can't really remember, put make sure you cams are actually sealed and oil isn't seeping out around the sprockets and provisions in the cylinder head ( you know what I mean). Maybe someone can elaborate a bit better than I can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Well I have bad news.. I fixed the sound coming from the timing belt. It was just the cover. Then free'd up the caliper. Worked fine. Oil pressure seemed ok too.
Then took it for a drive. Drove about 4 miles at no higher than 4000 Rpm. Came to a slower road so I coasted to 2400 rpm and BANK SNAP BOOM CRACK.... stoped running.
I pulled head and the number 2 pistion was turned about 10 degrees. A valve hit where there was sposed to be a valve relief.
So problem one..... nicked pision, bent valve.
Pulled off the oil pan. Rods and pistions 1,2,3 where BEAT TO SHIT!
the number two rod was twisted.
Everything in #4 seems fine.
On #'s 1,2,3 Rods, Pistions, oil squirters, block, crank shaft.. all where banged up.
I got looking around at what caused it and what i found it the bottom of the oil pan made me shit a chicken... It was the stubby shaft from the balance shaft removal kit. It worked itself loose and went for a ride. It dosn't really look much like a stubby shaft anymore. The bolt that holds it in is striped too.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I know I assembeled everything to speck, so how this happened I dont know.
So ill post some pics when I get the courage to look at the parts again.

Thanks for the help guys.
Bob.
 

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When I re-did my engine I cranked the engine alot to lube the engine. I did this for 2 days each for about 1/2 hour. The second day noticed a little oil on the belt. After looking everything over, Found that the oil pump sprocket nut was a little loose and oil seeped out from the nut and dripped onto the belt. That is what you had. I did the balance shaft removal as well.

Than what I did was take a 200ft/lb air gun and before putting on the nut, I put OEM Ultra Grey RTV on the threads and on the bottom of the nut than cranked it on there with the air gun. Sealed it real good.
Sorry you had to find out the hard way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I primed the engine a lot too. All the bolts where tight when the engine was put in. The stub bolt even had lock tite on it..

Anyways heres some discusting pics.

First sight.

#2 rod.


#3.


#'s 1 and 4 look to be fine. There is a small nick in #1 but nothing major.

The very botom of the block has some markings in the bottom of the cylinder wall on #3. the rings dont get that far though. So could the block be salvageable?

So I guess I got a good 17 miles out of a $700 set of rods and pistions and a block. Costly mistake but learn by experience I guess.:(

Thanks.

:tree: <--- Why do we have this one? just curious. haha
 

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I have to say, you're taking this much better than I would. Best of luck getting it back on the road.
 

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Holy shit, that freaks me out. If that happened to me, no one would see or hear from me for about 3 weeks. That sucks man, and good luck. I decided to wait a couple months to do a coolant flush and thermostat, then one day lost heat... then my water temp gauge was buried. Overheated and warped the head, along with the loss of oil into the coolent DESTROYED the bottem end, and it ate the balance shaft belt. Pulled it out.... After almost 2 years of my baby sitting in the driveway while i dropped thousands on it, i'm about 2 weeks to a month from finishing. Better not die on me after 17 miles. So, sorry for the long post, and please everyone.... wish me luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
barcelona-GSX said:
Holy shit, that freaks me out. If that happened to me, no one would see or hear from me for about 3 weeks. That sucks man, and good luck. I decided to wait a couple months to do a coolant flush and thermostat, then one day lost heat... then my water temp gauge was buried. Overheated and warped the head, along with the loss of oil into the coolent DESTROYED the bottem end, and it ate the balance shaft belt. Pulled it out.... After almost 2 years of my baby sitting in the driveway while i dropped thousands on it, i'm about 2 weeks to a month from finishing. Better not die on me after 17 miles. So, sorry for the long post, and please everyone.... wish me luck!
Ya I wish ya luck. But I think this was just a freak problem.. I have never heard of this hapening. But hey.... ITS ONLY MONEY RIGHT? I found me a parts car already so the build begins. Again...
So once again.. Good luck.

Bob.
 

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This is the reason why I prefer to rebuild stock engines race them, break them and see what happens, then move on to the ''tough stuff''.

Yeah that ''stubby shaft'' it actually requires you to do 29 ft lbs on the bolt lube it and add 3m loctite to it. Things like to vibrate loose this has already happened to me (stubby falling out) causing the oil pump to generate a loud spur whine.




MSEngineering
David Steele

 
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