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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, been reading the different threads on RWD conversion.
I think this is a project I'm going to undergo...but there is a lot of misleading/contradictory 'facts'.
Here is the best (I hope) info I've found.


Aus Starions used the km-132 mitsu 5 speed.
It is also found in the dodge d-50 & mitsu small rwd 2.0 pickups.

The 4g63 block has 2 different sizes
Slim type comes in All FWD applications and also in RWD pick ups
if 87 and up p/u only on 5spd types .

The wide 4g63 comes in Japanese Starions (low compression turbo) and also in 87-up automatic pick ups .
*This is the same size bellhousing as a 2.6L

Also the 2.4 blocks are wide if RWD, and narrow if FWD in trucks.

The same goes for the RWD transmissions they have wide and narrow depending on the application .

The Mazda b2600 has a Mitsubishi 2.6 in 87/88, but a Mazda (togyo kogyo) 5spd like the RX7 turbo has.



Ok, so I'm trying to figure out which tranny to use....
The D50 one bolts right up.
But using the b2600 bellhousing and an RX7 tranny... it should 'bolt-up' as well.

The Turbo II trannies are fairly strong...and their gearing is similar to us AWD:
5-Speed Turbo II Ratio
1st - 3.843
2nd - 2.015
3rd - 1.391
4th - 1.000
5th - 0.762
Rev - 3.288
Final - 4.100

5-Speed AWD 1G/2G Ratio
1G/2G AWDMT
1st - 3.083
2nd - 1.684
3rd - 1.115
4th - 0.833
5th - 0.666
Rev - 3.166
Final - 4.929

Now unless I'm thinking wrong, then when you take the final into consideration they are pretty close.

Now the KM 132:
1st - 3.369
2nd - 2.035
3rd - 1.360
4th - 1.000
5th - 0.856
Rev - 3.578
Final - ???

I haven't been able to find the final drive of the KM yet...


Ok, now I want FACTs on the two trannies (KM-132 & TII).
The main things I need to know:
How strong, in terms of HP, are these two?
Are they hydraulic clutch or cable?
Cable gear selected or rod?
Which one is better (opinion counts)?
Any other Misc stuff I should look out for?


I think that’s it. Otherwise I'm using a 4-bolt rear-end (until it blows up), going to have a custom drive-shaft. I work in a performance exhaust shop, so I have access to (and am good with) a MIG, Oxy/Acetylene torches, Plasma cutter, ect.

I don't want to hear opinions on why I'm doing this or that I should/shouldn't do this. I don't really care if an AWD car with the same hp/turbo/rice/ect will beat me in a quarter mile.

Anyone who has had experience with this swap, to include you 4G63 StarQuest guys, please help me out.

Thanks

Rogue
 

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Discussion Starter #2
One other thing. Anyone have any suggestions of what to do with the rack & pinion? It is going to be right in the way.

Rogue
 

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This should help you a lot. As someone who was WAY into RX-7s this is good info...Trust me on this.

The turboII transmission is your choice for a few reasons. Firstly, it is way way overbuilt. They will easily handle 400 horse. 500 horse even if you are somewhat gentle. The TII transmission is also fairly available as there were a lot of blown up TII RX-7's. The TII transmission was also available in the GTUS RX-7 which was a lightweight high output N/A RX-7. It is visually distintive from a regular 2G RX-7 transmission by the VERY large case. It is a large and heavy and tough transmission. Built to the hilt.

In summary
How strong, in terms of HP, are these two? 4-500 for the TII
Are they hydraulic clutch or cable? hydraulic
Cable gear selected or rod? rod selected directly on the transmission
Which one is better (opinion counts)? All i know is the TII
Any other Misc stuff I should look out for? can be pricey if you find someone who knows what they have, as they are somewhat desirable as an upgrade to strong N/A cars that have very weak transmissions. High po clutch disks should be easy to find however.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
OWGTI, thanks for you input. I did know the TII was the one I wanted, but I didn't know the GTU had the same trans.
I think I have the drivetrain covered.
My main concern is now the front crossmember/rack & pinion. It is right in the way...
And also I'm wondering what to do with my front hub assemblies.
Seeing as how they used to have half-shafts going to them...

Rogue
 

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The GTUs tranny IS NOT the same as the TurboII/FD trannies. It is the exact same as the other N/A rotaries (which the Miata tranny is based off of). The GTUs is exactly like the GTU on the driveline, except the GTUs gets a 4.30 LSD rear instead of the standard FC NA 4.10 LSD rear. THE GTU/GTUs/Sport/GXL/et. .al NA FC trannies are exactly the same.

I would go with a TurboII tranny (series 4[87-88] or series 5[89-91]?) as they are VERY strong, and shift VERY WELL at high rpms. The only person I know that can break the TII tranny with easy is a guy with a 4link and about 700rwhp. He started blowing up third gear around the ~10/9 second barrier.

Also, any j-spec 5-speed FC tranny will be a turboII tranny, as they only offered turbo FCs in japan, no NA FC's...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Dyre13b, thanks for clearing that up.
What is the difference between the series 4 and series 5 trannies?
I was pretty sure they would allow high rpm shifts since they are mated to a rotary. This is good considering the turbo I have won't build any boost before 4K, so I am considering raising RPM to ~9000 range.

BICTURBO, Rotation shouldn't be too hard. Mainly its just making the motor mounts. Considering where I work, this is trivial for me. One of my co-workers went to Wyoming Tech (hot-rod school) and has made motor mounts before. I'm prob going to use something like the set-up Buschur used, for the 'front' mount.

Like I said, the main thing now is the crossmember/rack. I need to go look at a Starion and see how their set-up is, and if I can retrofit parts from it to my car.

Rogue
 

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Rogue_Ant said:


Like I said, the main thing now is the crossmember/rack. I need to go look at a Starion and see how their set-up is, and if I can retrofit parts from it to my car.

Rogue
maybe you could snap some photos for us of the starion rack, linkage, etc
 

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Discussion Starter #8
No problem, I have a little digital camera for this type of stuff. I won't get to it this weekend; Parents are coming to visit, but next weekend at the latest.
Like I said, I'm going to document everything, and have plenty of pics.

Rogue
 

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You know, I don't really know the differences in the S4/S5 trannies, and Im not even sure if it makes any difference. I think you can bolt either block to either tranny, most parts are interchangable.. I am sure the S4 and S5 use different clutch and flywheels. Based on the info you gave, I would bet the S4 would work the best, but with a S5 flywheel/clutch/pp an S5 would probably work.

Heres some good tranny info for mazda's... http://www.mazdatrix.com/g1.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the site, I've been looking for more info on Mazda Trannies...
Why do you say the S4 would work the best?
I'm guessing the whole flywheel/clutch/pp isn't interchangeble between the two?
Hmm, now I'm going to have to firgure out which one to look for.
I think it will prob be the S4. Seeing as how the years are the same as the B2600 for the correct bellhousing.

Rogue
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Bushcur uses a Ford 9inch rear-end with a GM powerglide trans.
Pretty much indestructible.
I don't think the 4-bolt will hold up after I get bigger tires (245s) and start producing the power I'm planning on.
But I do believe it will hold up long enough for me to get this project working.
I have a video on my computer of an AWD DSM that had front half-shafts removed, and its doing a burn-out....
I tried to get to the junkyard today, to inspect a Starion but they are closed...darn holidays.

Rogue
 

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Rogue_Ant said:
Bushcur uses a Ford 9inch rear-end with a GM powerglide trans.
Pretty much indestructible.
I don't think the 4-bolt will hold up after I get bigger tires (245s) and start producing the power I'm planning on.
But I do believe it will hold up long enough for me to get this project working.
I have a video on my computer of an AWD DSM that had front half-shafts removed, and its doing a burn-out....
I tried to get to the junkyard today, to inspect a Starion but they are closed...darn holidays.

Rogue
Rogue, I'm considering holding off on the TRE tranny that was my next planned modification to want and see how this turns out. That might be $1700 that would go a long way towards the RWD conversion. Any idea yet to projected costs, and yah I know it never works out anything close to it. Also I will definately need a rear end that can take power.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Bicturbo;
Well I did a quick www.car-part.com search, and I will say ~400 for the RX7 tranny, ~200 for the b2600 bellhousing, modify driveshaft for length and correct yoke ~150(?), 4-bolt rear ~200, clutch kit ~200 (stock replacement).
Now the things I'm not including:
Motor mounts, these I'm building myself.
Misc hoses, I'm going completely to AN fittings and lines.
Misc wiring.
Complete front-end retrofit, I have still yet to look at the Starion Front non-the-less come-up with a solution.

So what’s the current total? ~1150. Now of course I'm not using a stock clutch, so you can add another ~250, and remember I still have the front-end to worry about..

Now this is for my 1G AWD. I do believe it would be exponentially harder (and more $) to do on a FWD car, as it doesn't have any provisions for rwd...


Rogue
 

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Well, the S4 tranny was used in the RX-7 during the same years as your B2600 production numbers. I don't think they would put a S5 tranny into the 87-88 trucks, when it haden't been built yet. :)

Im just going off your data, and what i know. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ok, actually got some pics of the Starion front-end...

Here is a picture of the passenger side of the Starion.



Ok, now lets take a closer look:



I've highlighted the things I feel are of importance.
Ok, notice how the strut/hub assembly appears to be one piece, not a bolt-on strut like ours.
The lower control arm is more of a 'dogbone' piece then a wishbone like ours.
There is a 'tie-rod' bolted to the lower control arm.
The sway bar is in front of the control arm, opposite of ours.



Here we see much of the same thing, except you can see the complete 'tie-rod', and its mounting point on the 'frame'.



The steering linkage/setup for the passenger side. The main thing is the support/pivoting assembly. I'm wondering how much importance is this piece. But it doesn't look hard to use.



Ok, sorry for the blurriness (my digital camera is touchy).
There is no rack & pinion. The steering box is mounted under the master cylinder, and is connected directly underneath by the steering linkage.

***what you can't see***
My picture of the crossmember didn't come out...sorry. But its a relatively simple piece that goes under the engine and provides a mounting point for passenger & driver lower control arms.

All in All this doesn't look too hard to modify/retrofit. I will need to take measurements, but I'm fairly excited to see a (hopefully) simple solution.

Rogue
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Laser, thanks for the link. I'm glade you found the info helpful. I think the greatest part of this board is the wealth of knowledge here.
BTW, love the turbo mirage site. Those are some quick beasts... hopefully mine turns out times like that :).

Rogue
 

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Just wondering your logic as to why you are doing this? Not trying to slam it at all, just wondering, trying to learn more. Buddy of mine has a theory that at a certian point you get so much weight transfer that the front wheels are just robing you of power and/or just aren't helping you anymore. This would mainly depend on how you had your suspension setup (it would happen sooner power wise with a drag setup). Makes sense right?

I wish you luck in your project, sounds like you've got most of the bugs figured out. I don't think it would be a path I'd chose to go down, but would like to see pics non-the-less.

Is Buscher even using the stock frame or is he using a tube frame (I'm not versed in pro IDRC rules, or any drag racing clasifications for that matter)?
 
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