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Discussion Starter #1
I am starting this after TIME AND TIME AND TIME again of searching for good reliable info on the SBR GT turbos.

I am going to start by listing my car mods.
1994 GSX (stripped down for race)
6-bolt
eagle rods
wiseco 8.3:1 pistons
ARP headstuds
Cometic HG
Stage 4 SBR race head
Comp 101200 cams
HKS cam gears
OS Geiken twin disc clutch
FIC 750's
DSMLINK
Walbro 255HP
Weapon Rice FPR
BJ's cylinder heads in. Manifold
clevite main and rod bearings
SFP tubular header (this might change to EVOIII)
BIG front mount
2g MAF removed honeycombs and backed flush.
EVOIII 02 housing (ported)
3" exhaust.
MY own piping and stuff.

Ok here's the deal. I don't want a drag car. I want a good solid sweeping reliable powerband. And right now, I have a GT14 turbo internal gated on the SFP header (never run yet), with the 4" inlet housing and all mods (see pic). My buddy got a divorce and I got the turbo and header on the cheap...I took it off his car he had 300 miles and I was the one who originally installed it anyway. Well the turbo decision brings up alot of potential problems that make me think It's not what I'll want:

1) I want a good sweeping powerband. A 50 trim turbo setup is 850.00 at the minimum, It would even hit my target goals fine. I was going to sell the GT14 and get a 50 trim, but I already have all the lines to bolt up a GT turbo to the car. Any proof of real spoolup times between these turbos? I've read 3700 for GT12 and 4200 for GT14. MY car should run 8k fine, but don't want to if I don't have too here.

2) Fitment issues of T04S 4" inlet housing. This is looking TIGHT at the engine mount on my 1g. I haven't plumbed in the intercooler to the turbo and think a T04E 3" inlet housing (which isn't even recommended for a GT14) would fit ALOT better. Anyone give me tips?? I would like to switch to the EVO3 manifold if possible since I wouldn't have to cut my DP then.

3) I can get a NEW GT12 for 1075.00 with no options and swap it directly into this turbine housing since the GT12-14 share the same exhaust wheel. This would give me an internal gated GT12, a 3" housing, BB, a sweeping powerband and all for 200.00 more than a new 50 trim and I'd have a complete GT14 to sell to someone who wants to run it on an external gate.

4) My fuel system would need to be upgraded to run the GT14 to it's max. I've read that the lines start becoming a restriction soon and 950cc's would be needed.

5) I have a stock tranny for now. Keep in mind this is a road race / weekend warrior. NOT a full on drag car, but I'm sure I'll still be hammering it pretty bad until I have $$ to upgrade.

Aight well thanks for the input. Also If anyone has any offers, let me know.

Thanks,
Patrick Harris
 

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From what I've read on dsmlink forums, the gt14 is a real laggy drag race only turbo. If your looking for 600whp it will work fine. If you want a streetable, good spooling turbo then you will not like it. I like your idea about the gt12, or maybe you can look into a gt3076/gt3071r swap. Call slowboy and see what they think. The gt3076r for example has put down around 500whp on pump with full spool alittle quicker then a 50trim.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for the help. I have talked to the guys at SBR many times. And of course, they want me to push the GT14. That means more sales, more money, and another guinea pig for the GT14...which I don't blame them for. I think I would be happier with the GT12 setup and since it looks as though it can make 500 awhp. I think that would be plenty for 2700 lbs of weight.

Thanks again,
Patrick Harris
 

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I don't think the GT12 is going to make 500awhp. ;) The GT14 should achieve that. I would really stick with the GT14 you already have. Get bigger injectors (950cc's or 1,000cc's) and that should be good till the mid-high 20's boost wise even on that single Walbro. Not sure why you think it's too "big." Spool should be max at 4,500rpm on a 2.0L. With DSMlink you should even be able to run that MAF to achieve 500WHP. It would be a shame spending money downgrading the turbo....unless you found a lucky person with a 12 to swap you across. I say, spend your money elsewhere - although I would recommend switching to an EWG setup whichever way you go. Never liked the IWG on my GT12 and it was the first thing I got rid of.

About fitment issues, you may need to bang your water outlet pipe pretty good and probably modify your lines (especially the water and oil drain) to get clearance.) I had to do this on my GT12 even though it was a TO4E. Can't imagine your 4" inlet just fitting on there.
 

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The gt14 is pretty much a gt30/40 hybrid, and has a 65lb compressor wheel-It should be good for a lot more then 500whp and for a daily driver would be pretty laggy. I would think the gt3071 or 3076r would be more street friendly, and get you to your goals. I would sell the gt14 and get the turbo right turbo from the get go. Have you read the fp3052 review? That sounds right up your alley-its basically the same as the gt3076r, just with the slowboy housing instead of the forced performance. I would still upgrade to bigger injectors to keep the duty cycle down. Let us know what you decide.
 

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Stick with the GT14. The GT-3076R is not making 500AWHP on pump gas. The GT14 will not be "laggy" for a DD. 4500-8K is a pretty good powerband even for a stock valvetrain (if you had one.) If you don't want lag, one can always stick with a 14B/T25. Take this from people who have tried both turbos. Now I wouldn't recommend a GT14 for auto-X (even the GT12 was laggy for that) but for road racing, a GT14 will work just fine. I am with the SBR guys on this. YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys.

Ok I think coming from someone who has had the GT12 I will take your and SBR's advice. FYI - The SFP header has the "perfect" amount of clearance. The comp housing "barely" touches the unmodified water pipe. I will also take your advice and put an external in the manifold. I have all the materials and welding machine to do it right here, so I don't think that it will be a problem. And if I do it that way I should be able to clock the comp. housing a little more to get around the engien mount. Yeah it's tight as hell in there right now, and I already made the 4" inlet piping. Talk about a monster setup in a stock-appearing car. So GT14 it is. Any bets on the first thing to break are gonna be?

Thanks,
Patrick Harris
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What exactly is the problem with the SBR internal WG on the GT turbos? It seems the consensus is that they aren't good, but why exactly? My guess is they don't hold high boost?

Thanks,
Patrick Harris
 

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SBR are bunch of POS no good $$$ whores. I put a SBR disk in with a ACT 2600 PP. I called SBR before hand and asked them if this would be a good combo for a mildly drivin Street car that mostly see's the track. There response, sure it will work great with the ACT. My fucking ass it works great, I made (9) low 12sec passes on that clutch and now it's completely TOAST, I can barely drive the car. This is after maybe 9k miles, That is complete BS. Once I take the tranny out I'm going to take Pics of the front and of the rear of the disc and I'll post pictures on this site here for you guys to all see. SBR I hope you read this because it's your own dam fault for giving me a POS clutch disk, the Kevlar on that disc fried right up the day I ran 5 12sec passes, the last pass I had to stop in the middle of the track because the disk wasn't gripping. What a POS I believe the disk was originally bought from Competition clutch then SBR had there Kevlar crap put on the surface.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well I must say after ordering damn-near EVERY single part for my friend's and my car from them over the last 3 years, Thier customer service is EXCELLENT. I mean absolutely excellent. If you got bad advice and a bad clutch, I'm sorry to hear that. I can't imagine what went wrong with your car, and I'm sorry that happend. But on the other hand, I also don't understand why you ran a mis-matched clutch setup in the first place. Even though 1 salesman tells you 1 thing, not always does that 1 guy's response reflect the true conveyance of the shop owner's attitude. I assure you that there is nothing wrong with SBR's shop, and I haven't had any trouble with even 1 part yet (besides a set of pistons my dumbass melted).

And even on top of all of that....I get on these boards and ask the same questions I ask them, because not even every doctor in the world is right all the time. Then I make a plan, get prices, and haggle them for every penny I can. When you spend 8k in parts, you can do that.

Patrick Harris

PS - wait, I just realized they did in fact make a mistake. And it was rather recent. I ordered a oil feed line kit for my GT14 and they accidentally threw 1 wrong fitting in the order. Took me 5 mins of confusion and 1 call. Viola, new fitting 3 days later.
 

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Forced Performance Gt3065 might be what your looking for. On my 8.2:1 2.0 liter it was just the right size to shift into full spool with the stock redline. any bigger turbo and you'll drop out of boost. Plenty of powerband to still be fun to drive. I wonder which sbr turbo is for sure the equivalent?
 

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Charliebrown said:
Forced Performance Gt3065 might be what your looking for. On my 8.2:1 2.0 liter it was just the right size to shift into full spool with the stock redline. any bigger turbo and you'll drop out of boost. Plenty of powerband to still be fun to drive. I wonder which sbr turbo is for sure the equivalent?
The SBRGT14 and the FP3065 use the same center section from garrett.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok, thanks.

To update, the car is running now. Even on my very basic tune in the DSMlink the GT14 is still pretty dang responsive for a big turbo. I haven't fully gotten into the powerband yet, but the car is running and driving now so only time will tell. I also got the SBR Race FMIC. VERY NICE PRODUCT. We'll soon see how everything will work out.

I still need the bigger injectors, so that's next. And possibly a MAFT to convert to blow-through to eliminate my transient airflow issues. I also need to do the external WG if my ideas don't work on the boost control issues, but these are all after I break in the engine.

Everything fit great with the SBR FMIC and 4" inlet GT14 and SFP manifold.

The only thing I regret is not getting the SBR oil drain kit for my turbo. I am kicking myself for making my own since it is trickling oil around it now.


Thanks guys,
Patrick Harris
 
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