Solid lifters to degree cams?

8863 Views 20 Replies 8 Participants Last post by With_Flow, 23 d ago

Demon33

Discussion Starter · Nov 28, 2010

Does anyone know where I can buy solid lifters to degree my cams with?

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

DSM Loki

· #2 · Nov 28, 2010

http://www.4g63turbo.com/tech/4g63-camshaft-degreeing.html
Read this link.

Demon33

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 28, 2010

Thanks, I saw that one already. Just before step 4 it states "The preferred method is to use solid lifters(nut adjuster type). You can accurately adjust the lifters to have .001" preload, which can not be easily done using shims."

So I'm looking for the "nut adjuster type" of solid lifters, as they're easier to use than shims and can be adjusted more accurately.

Ripper_XX

· #4 · Nov 28, 2010

I think I saw some on extremepsi's website. Yep http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=1328

9.0Buck60

· #5 · Nov 28, 2010

Demon33 said:
Thanks, I saw that one already. Just before step 4 it states "The preferred method is to use solid lifters(nut adjuster type). You can accurately adjust the lifters to have .001" preload, which can not be easily done using shims."

So I'm looking for the "nut adjuster type" of solid lifters, as they're easier to use than shims and can be adjusted more accurately.

You can either buy a few home-made solids from Forced Performance or make a few solids out of OEM lifters. If you want to run them as appose to just using them to degree your cams the shim type are by far the better choice.

The jam nut type offered by BLE are junk.Why spend several hundred dollars on something that your going to use once? Just use some OEM HLA's. BLE's are really junk. This is coming from myself and my machinist. Had them in a motor that was built in our shop. The jam nut is a PITA. Shim type are a lot less of a headache.
Tomei makes solid shim type lifters. They are not cheap,but thats what I would run if I was going solid.
If you get yourself a decent set of cams you really don't have to worry about degreeing them. Degreeing cams is like quality controll. It's more or less to assure the cams specs are dead on,and to assure everything will orchestrate correctly. I dropped in my Kelford's and never looked back.

9.0Buck60

· #6 · Nov 28, 2010

DSM Loki said:
http://www.4g63turbo.com/tech/4g63-camshaft-degreeing.html
Read this link.

Good link. Great info to have if you don't already know.

Just an example though. If you have a set of BC cams or something equivilent,than I'd say go ahead and degree them. However if you spent $500-$600 on a decent set of cams I would drop them bitches in. How can I explain this simply? My 93' Talon had a set of HKS 280's in the motor. The first motor was not degreed. It made 557whp with a beautiful power curve from 4,500 to 9,200 rpm's. Long story short the water pump went on the way home from the track. It was in the fall so I opted to take the motor down and freshen up for the spring. This time I degreed the cams and the motor made 550whp with a solid curve from the same rpm's to the same ceiling. So,not that degreeing them made more power. It's more of a piece of mind kind of thing. But is it absolutely necessary? Not at all. Most guys will tell you it's a waste of time if you have a set of high end cams. Out of all the cams I've installed in a 4G63
I've never had an adverse effect from dropping in a set of un-degreed cams.

Now as far as running solid lifters goes,look at how many people are having good luck with 1G HLA's and the Kiggly or Magnus pressure regulator. I'm still waiting to test out my new setup,but my buddy has the same setup in his motor and he gets ZERO float at 1,000 rpm's higher than he was experiancing float at previously. In simple terms,it works.
You've also got to take into consideration the fact that solid lifters need to be adjusted. Shimmed type are better for this reason in my opinion. However,if this is a street car your not going to want to keep adjusting them. Same goes for BLE's timing belt tensioner. Why the hell would someone want to let the lifeline of the motor rest on a single jam nut? Atleast we all know that a new OEM hydraulic tensioner will last for quite a while. And it does'nt have to be kept up on.

See less See more

99gst_racer

· #7 · Nov 28, 2010

9.0Buck60 said:
You can either buy a few home-made solids from Forced Performance or make a few solids out of OEM lifters. If you want to run them as appose to just using them to degree your cams the shim type are by far the better choice.

The jam nut type offered by BLE are junk.Why spend several hundred dollars on something that your going to use once? Just use some OEM HLA's. BLE's are really junk. This is coming from myself and my machinist. Had them in a motor that was built in our shop. The jam nut is a PITA. Shim type are a lot less of a headache.
Tomei makes solid shim type lifters. They are not cheap,but thats what I would run if I was going solid.
If you get yourself a decent set of cams you really don't have to worry about degreeing them. Degreeing cams is like quality controll. It's more or less to assure the cams specs are dead on,and to assure everything will orchestrate correctly. I dropped in my Kelford's and never looked back.

The BLE's are actually perfect for cam degreeing. Much easier and quicker than trying to use shims to adjust out lash.

OP - It seems that about every year, someone buys a full set and sells them as pairs in the forum classifieds. Maybe you could be that guy this winter?

Demon33

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 28, 2010

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Just so that we're on the same page and talking about the same thing, I DO NOT want to use these solid lifters to drive the car on. I'm perfectly happy with my 3G hydraulic lifters. I'm merely looking for a pair of solid lifters to degree my HKS cams with.

I know that HKS cams are some of the most accurate right out of the box and many have simply dropped them in without degreeing them. I did just that when they were first installed. However, I now have the head off at the machine shop for new guides and valves. I overheated the motor so the head needs to be milled a couple of thousandths. This may or may not be enough to affect my cam timing noticeably, but add to that the unknown error of the cams (ableit probably small) and you can see why I want to degree them. I have adjustable cams that I have not yet installed making this the perfect opportunity to install and set them up correctly.

I'll see if Extreme will sell me just 2 of the solid lifters, but if anyone has a pair that I could borrow or buy, please PM me. Thanks for all the help.

See less See more

Demon33

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 28, 2010

99gst_racer said:
OP - It seems that about every year, someone buys a full set and sells them as pairs in the forum classifieds. Maybe you could be that guy this winter?

LOL! Not likey, I'm just as strapped for cash as the rest of you! And with :tree: around the corner...:dunno:

9.0Buck60

· #10 · Nov 29, 2010 (Edited)

99gst_racer said:
The BLE's are actually perfect for cam degreeing. Much easier and quicker than trying to use shims to adjust out lash.

OP - It seems that about every year, someone buys a full set and sells them as pairs in the forum classifieds. Maybe you could be that guy this winter?

I'd have to disagree with youthere.I don't like the design of the BLE's. They are not eay to adjust properly. Like I said,I built a motor a few years back for a friend of mine using BLE solid lifters.It's much easier to accurately set lash with shims. There is not lock nut to worry about.You get your shims in there and thats that . It's just that the jam nut type would definately not be my first choice though due to the price. I just use modified OEM lifters to degree.

OP, There is a guy that works at Forced Performance that sells the modded oem lifters for degreeing. You don't need a full set.

This is why I don't care for the BLE's.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/271153-hydraulic-vs-solid-lifters.html

9.0Buck60

· #11 · Nov 29, 2010

99gst_racer said:
The BLE's are actually perfect for cam degreeing. Much easier and quicker than trying to use shims to adjust out lash.

OP - It seems that about every year, someone buys a full set and sells them as pairs in the forum classifieds. Maybe you could be that guy this winter?

To degree cams,ok. I could see using the BLE's. But at the price they are, Big Len must be smoking some good shit. When my shop was doing quite a few 4G63's we looked into buying some sets of BLE's. Len was only willing to drop the price a few bucks per set on a pretty large order. Needless to say I'm glad we never did anything with him. We just use 1G modded lifters now when it's absoluetly necessary. I mean did you read some of the horror stories from other BLE lifter users?

"I used the BLE solids on my motor for a few dyno pulls.
1) They are very hard to adjust once installed. to se the lash you have to pull the cams.
2) the tolerances where way off
3)I broke 2 Jam nuts off while trying to loosen then when first pulled them out of the package
4) they are noisy as hell, you think a lifter tapping is bad how about 16 of the clanking at idle
5) there is no use unless you are running a Piper Drag Cam with so much lift and such an aggressive lobe that it collapses lifters, but at the point the car isn't street driven and is probably inspected after each race weekend.

Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/271153-hydraulic-vs-solid-lifters.html?ktrack=kcplink"

See less See more

99gst_racer

· #12 · Nov 29, 2010 (Edited)

9.0Buck60 said:
To degree cams,ok. I could see using the BLE's.

Degreeing cams is what this thread is about. Nobody is asking about running them in an engine.

9.0Buck60 said:
OP, There is a guy that works at Forced Performance that sells the modded oem lifters for degreeing. You don't need a full set.

Link? I'd like to see how they modify them.

9.0Buck60

· #13 · Nov 30, 2010 (Edited)

99gst_racer said:
Degreeing cams is what this thread is about. Nobody is asking about running them in an engine.

Link? I'd like to see how they modify them.

Just friggin' call them. I just happened to be BS'ing with a guy from there and he said he keeps some to sell to customers. It's not that difficult. Just google it. I'm sure you'll find a thread somehere.

9.0Buck60

· #14 · Nov 30, 2010

Degreeing cams is what this thread is about. Nobody is asking about running them in an engine.

Someone mentioned BLE's. I just said they were junk. End of story.

99gst_racer

· #15 · Nov 30, 2010

Demon33 - Perfect timing: http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54103

Demon33

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 2, 2010

99gst_racer said:
Demon33 - Perfect timing: http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54103

Thank you for the link!

For the record, I contacted Forced Performance and got a reply from Aniel. He said that FP doesn't have solid lifters for sale.

9.0Buck60

· #17 · Dec 3, 2010

For the record, I don't know how you went about speaking to them,but when I was in te process of trying to get a set of FP5R/11R cams, they had discontinued them. I was speaking to someone their (I don't know what his name was) and he said that he had a bunch of OEM modified lifters for degreeing cams hat he sells.Not FP,but him personally. I did'nt say they had them on their site for sale or anything like that.

MacGSX

· #18 · Apr 10, 2014

Anyone know where I can get a set nowadays? I can't seem to find a pair anywhere.

Jordan

90BLACKAWDTSI

· #19 · Apr 10, 2014

MacGSX said:
Anyone know where I can get a set nowadays? I can't seem to find a pair anywhere.

Jordan

There made by BLE.
http://www.maperformance.com/ble-upgraded-solid-lifter-set-dsm-evo.html

MacGSX

· #20 · Apr 10, 2014

Yes, that is a complete set. I'm looking for a company that sells sets of 2 lifters.

1 - 20 of 21 Posts