DSMTalk Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I bought a 90 talon turbo awd yesterday for $700. Its a victim of someones ex vandalizing it. Body is good other than broken tail lights and such. The tank door was pryed open and sugar was put in the tank. My guess is he didnt notice pry marks and drove it. I pulled valve cover and "all" of the intake (firewall side) roller rockers are broken and or came off lifters. The exhuast side isnt damaged. I retrieved all pieces except a couple. My question is what the hell happened? I assume the sugar gummed up valves on intake side which didnt allow them to close and some thing had to give so the rockers exploded? Or the pistons hit intake valves? I need to know what needs to be replaced, just head and flush fuel tank, or does the bottom end need fixing also? Any advice would be helpfull. Has any one experienced this before?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
sounds like the timing belt broke or slipped causing valves to contact the pistons I dont think it has anything to do with the sugar. as for the surgar I'd say drop the tank clean it out flush the lines and get new filters and maybe have the injecters cleaned
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
587 Posts
I would imagine that while running, the heat would caramelize the sugar, and throw a sticky coating on everything fuel contacts... once shut off, this caramel would harden, and then when restarted, either excessively wear, or break the parts it's holding back (ie: rings, valves, maybe lifters). It would probably also score the cylinder walls. Sugar, once caramelized, becomes quite hard.

-Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I guess im gonna have to pull head and look. Hopefully no bent valves. The timing belt is still on so it may have slipped but I doubt it. I was tempted to just replace rocker arms and I tried to put one on but there is no tension on spring so it just sits there with out cam pressing it down? Almost like valve isnt closed even though the spring should be pulling it up? That was just the one I tried first though. Guess ill pull head and check it out. I wish I knew if bottom end is still good. By the way, can I pull head without taking off the intake first? Seems like it would be much easier to unbolt with head off of car?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
If you only paid $700 why not get a JDM engine and drop ot in? I have seen some people get them for around $800 including the 16G turbo and in great condition. I would also do what th eothers said about the fuel system and also replace the pump and injectors.

:tat: Sugar
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I have a 91 gsx im rebuilding right now so I dont want the talon, thought a decent fix would put more money into my gsx rebuild after I sell talon. But that is a good deal I suppose. Anyone have a link or search reference?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Why not part it out then? You should be able to get more than $700 depending on the condition of parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
I was tempted to just replace rocker arms and I tried to put one on but there is no tension on spring so it just sits there with out cam pressing it down?
You should be able to press the spring down with a little effort. But if a 5 yr old can press it down then the spring is bad.
can I pull head without taking off the intake first?
You can leave the intake and exhaust manifolds on. And yes it's much easier that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I pulled all of my lifters on the gsx and cleaned them a few years ago so I understand how the top end works, on this tsi its like half the rockers on intake cam broke literally and half fell off the retainers/lifters because some thing other than cam lobe position is compressing the springs. None of the lifters are compressed, they are all fully open and functional.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Maybe I'm thinking back asswards tonight but how would the sugar make it past the strainer on the fuel pump AND the fuel filter?

Just a thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Same thing as if you throw sugar in a glass of water or any other liquid and shake it up it dissolves into it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Rotate the engine by hand and try to get the timing marks to line up...if they don't then you know it jumped timing. I know what you mean by the rockers falling off and not wanting to stay in place because of lack of tension....it is most likely because the intake valves are bent and the spring can't pull them up all the way. I just experienced this this weekend when my girlfriends n/t eclipse GS balance belt broke and made the timing belt jump timing...it bent all 8 intake valves.....however the exhaust valves were fine. I guess only the intake cam jumped timing. Anyways i had a spare set of valves and a headgasket around so i just pulled the head cleaned everything up and put new intake valves in. Bought all the timing belt stuff at autozone for ~$100....slapped it all together and the car runs just as good if not better than before.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,215 Posts
Sugar doesn't dissolve in gas and sugar crystals aren't all that hard. I suppose if you put enough in it could plug the sock on the pump pickup.

I once pulled the head on a car where the head gasket was leaking antifreeze into a cylinder. In the cylinder was this white translucent stuff that looked like sugar glazing. Well, I tasted it and sure enough, it was sweet. As you should know antifreeze tastes sweet. Don't try this, it is poison.

So I wonder if sugar in the gas tank isn't an old wives tale that dates back to when the auto makers started using ethylene glycol. I think dirt would work better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
barney said:
Sugar doesn't dissolve in gas and sugar crystals aren't all that hard. I suppose if you put enough in it could plug the sock on the pump pickup.

I once pulled the head on a car where the head gasket was leaking antifreeze into a cylinder. In the cylinder was this white translucent stuff that looked like sugar glazing. Well, I tasted it and sure enough, it was sweet. As you should know antifreeze tastes sweet. Don't try this, it is poison.

So I wonder if sugar in the gas tank isn't an old wives tale that dates back to when the auto makers started using ethylene glycol. I think dirt would work better.

LOL! You tasted it????? ROFL! You knew it was leaking coolant, but you felt the urge to taste it anyways? OMG, thats frickin hilarious man.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,215 Posts
I guess a person should be careful about what they admit to but there's no getting out of it now. Yeah, I tasted it.

Anyway, the stuff in the cylinder looked like sugar glazing. Slurp! There was no stopping at that point. It was hard but you could dent it with a fingernail. It also was sticky. I've always thought since then that maybe that's how the sugar in the gas tank story got started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Just because it was sweet doesn't mean it was sugar. :puke: Sugar will dissolve into gas try it. If you think it is an old wives tale are you willing to try it out on your car?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
hmmmm... I didn't think sugar (or any other crystallic substances) dissolved in petroleum products... I guess my high school science teacher was full of shit.. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
I was wrong and your teacher was right it won't dissolve :scholar:

Here are some answers I found in the web

Does putting sugar in someone's gas tank ruin their engine? Some also say sand in the gas tank will work, but it seems as though it would simply block the fuel filter. --Alan Whinery, Honolulu, Hawaii
SDSTAFF Dogster replies:
Having a spat with your sweetie, Al? Any sort of gritty substance put into a fuel tank is going to have an adverse effect on the car's performance. Salt and sugar are probably the most effective, since they do not dissolve in the gas. Sand is less effective because it is heavier and will sink to the bottom of the tank. Of course, it depends on how much sand you are funneling in, you delinquent.

Let's use sugar as an example. There are three basic ways that sugar in the gas tank is going to foul up someone's car. First, as you say, it will clog the fuel filter. Second, what gets through the fuel filter will clog the fuel pump. Finally, what makes it through the fuel filter and the fuel pump will completely foul whatever fuel delivery system your car uses. A carburetor that gets sugar in it is junk; you can strip it down and attempt to rebuild it but you likely will fail - it's a gummy, sticky mess. Your fuel injected vehicle will not fare much better when mucked up with the sticky stuff. This sort of vandalism will result in the car hesitating, losing power, and stalling. And repairs will not be cheap - replacing the fuel filter, dropping and draining the fuel tank, possibly a new carburetor or new fuel injectors. The latter two are very expensive, both in parts and labor.

An interesting side note - in the days before unleaded gasoline, fuel tank intake necks did not have flapper valves, and one way of screwing someone who was going on a long trip over was to roll a few golf balls down the neck into the tank. Once inside, the cover would slowly dissolve in the gas tank, leaving the spagetti-like fine string that wraps the core of a ball to unravel and clog the fuel filter. Now, if you REALLY want to put someone out of commission, sand in the oil fill tube is the ticket. Once the sand gets sucked up by the oil pump, it will score the pistons and the chambers and make the engine scrap. I do not advocate or recommend doing this, as it is extremely illegal and you probably don't want to go to jail. But then again, I don't know you. Here's hoping your interest in this is strictly academic.


Well, first of all, the portion of gasoline in the volume of the tank decreases. Second of all, when the fuel containing sugar enters the engine, the sugar caramelises by the high temperature that is produced by the combustion process in the engine. Since the caramel is a pasty liquid, with high density and viscosity, the engine can get stuck and consequently break :(. Besides, it is not a flammable substance, and thus not useful in the engine as fuel. So, I'd recommend that you not try it!

I also found a song called sugar in a gas tank
:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
If you check the timing belt / head job threads you'll see that the valves are definitely bent which is how the rockers got splayed out all over the place - that entire engine may well be toast. Good Luck - as least you've only got $700 in it - if the body & interior is good you're OK.

Hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned....
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top