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I am taking an auto class in school, and am still a newbie to this whole performance car stuff but I know a retard when I see one, listen to this. We are in autobody together, and this kid is saying how he has a 93 integra that has a bluprinted and balanced engine, and all that other good "bs" that he through out. He also said that it has a supercharger and a turbocharger on it. He wasn't telling this to me but I heard this stupid kid saying all this crap and then saying that it could kick the crap out of any eclipse gsx, because its pushing "286 to the wheels" (HAHAHAHA). Well me being a future tsi owner, I turned around and said "shut the hell up you stupid retard". "Your so full of S*@&, you make the toilet jealous". He said its impossible to get more than 300hp out of a 4cyl engine. So I said what do you think that those 9 sec dsm's have in them, and he said "Atleast a 6cyl engine". Well before I get to far ahead of my self, Is it possible to put a supercharger and turbocharger on a car? Please Please tell me, is this kid stupid or what?
 

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Did he mention if he modified his flux capacitor to match the air speed velocity of an unledened swallow?

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John Lewis
1991 Eclipse GS Turbo
 

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That previous post wasn't meant to poke fun at the person posting, rather at the Integra story teller.

Actually, as far as I know, you can't have both, at least I have never heard of both. Maybe with enough mods(?)

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John Lewis
1991 Eclipse GS Turbo
 

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That guy is so full of ****. However, I have seen it done. The early MR-2's came supercharged producing 145hp. HKS made a turbo kit for these cars. The air would come out of the turbo and get forced into the superchager. It was'nt a very good set up. I think Turbo magizine did a feature on an early MR-2 with one of those kits a few years ago. They said HKS did'nt make that many of the kits, and that it did'nt help much. But a honda!! I understand you can do anything to any car these days but,....why waste your time and money.
 

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in my experiences, which aren't that much, i thought about that question many times. i later found out that, and don't get on my case for this if i have these backwards, a turbo runs mainly on oil pressure and a super runs on exhaust pressure. to have both i don't think would be smart. i have heard of twin turbo like on rx-7's and stealths. me and a friend were going to try that on my 97 ranger that i had. we gave up.
 

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Yup, the only time that I've heard it was done was the MkI Mr2s. They were called the twin chargers. I believe there are only a handful of these in existence now. It's theoretically a sound concept. Have a supercharger to fill in the low-end of the turbo and then have the turbo take over the high end. Can you say boost from idle to redline? :) Too bad it's too impractical to implement, reliably anyway.
 

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ok look lets clear this up... a turbocharger is a type of supercharger.. it uses a centrifigal (spelling?) wheel to "fling" air into the sea shell shaped houseing around the wheel, this is why turbocharged vehicles pump very little air until the turbo has spooled up to a decent speed. if you graph boost pressure to rpm (or more accuratly the rpm of the turbine) you will note boost goes up exponentially. this is why boost pressure peaks quicker in a smaller turbo. the supercharger as it most commonly means, is a two "wheeled" air pump when the wheels are going at 100 rpm they are pumping exactly 100 times more air than when they are going at 1 rpm.. couple the charger's speed with the engine's speed (via belts) and you have a boost level that rises linearly with the engine speed. theoretically that turbo/supercharger combo would help a little but using a very quickly spooling turbo at first and then employing a second turbo, *after* the first turbo is spooled up, to increase the max flow rate is much much more effective (i.e. supra tt has a sequential twin turbo system) a twin turbo z car has a parallel turbo system, both turbo's spool at the same time. i guess sequential turbos are similar to variable valve timing in the turbo world (in a streched way).

as for his stupidity, tell him that open wheel race cars teams have developed 1200hp + 1.5L engines, no nitrous just 40+ lbs of boost

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J. Hunter Allred

'95 GS-T free mods, K&N, 3" HKS Superdragger, ACT2600, lightened flywheel, and otherthings that escape me at the moment. T-25 handicapped though. As you can see its a work in progress. Figure if i buy it i should buy it once :)

[This message has been edited by redgsturbo (edited September 08, 2000).]
 

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2 Things...

1. A Turbo Charger is considered a type of supercharger. It is actally called a Turbo supercharger.

2. I saw a mag several years ago that had some sort of Ferarri with a twin turbo and supercharger set up. I can't remember how it worked, but the supercharger would kick off when the turbos were spooled up.
 

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wouldn't it work much better on MR2's if the supercharger was first in line with the turbo? -- at low RPM's super would give you some pressure helping to quickly spool UP the turbo and the the turbo would take over?
hmmm.. or maybe I'm wrong.. how about the intake opening up in between the turbo and the super to eliminate supercharger's restriction at this piont (high rpm) or mabe... ok ok I'm done :)
 

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Here's me, nitpicking again :).
Technically, a turbocharger and supercharger are two different things. They accomplish the same goal, ie pressurize the intake manifold, but they do so through different means. A turbocharger is not a supercharger, or vice-versa, but a centrifugal supercharger has a similar compressor to the turbo. Basic definition of a turbo.
1.) It is a compressor with a turbine wheel that's exhaust gas driven. It basically uses waste energy to drive the exhaust turbine which turns the compressor wheel and compresses air, ie free power.
Dfinition of a supercharger.
1.) It is a compressor that is driven directly by the engine, usually through a belt. Thus, it consumes some of the energy produced by the engine but the compressed air it produces allows the engine to make even more power, so it ends up being a power adder. To illustrate this, a supercharger on a big V-8 drag engine sometimes takes up to 50HP to run, at the top end.
I won't go into specific details like turbo lag etc as it'll end up being WAY too long.
 

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ive seen it ive seen it ive seen it but damnit i cant remember what mag it was in
TURBO, SSC somthing. it was a supercharged twin turbo skyline gtr
 

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If you were to have a set up using both a supercharger and a turbo (as in the MK1 MRs) wouldn't the turbo's pressurized air be slowed by the slower spinning supercharger at high rpms? It is know wonder the HK$ kit doesn't really do any good! No matter how you would set it up I would see the sc as being an intake restriction at high rpms where the turbo would way out flow the supercharger.

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1995 Talon TSI fwd
 

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If I remember right I think the air goes in a bypass around the supercharger when the turbo comes on.
It's a very complex system and I think most people had problems getting the switch over etc done correctly.
Of course, I could have just dreamt that I read that somewhere :).


[This message has been edited by Jehu (edited September 08, 2000).]
 

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Hmm...I have never heard that term before, but if historically superchargers were developed before turbo chargers, I could see the turbo chargers being labeled as a form of supercharger. Basically different means to arrive at the same ends.
I hope nobody starts asking the question :
"Turbo or Supercharger, which is better?"
:)

[This message has been edited by Jehu (edited September 08, 2000).]
 

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a super charger is anything that charges air before it enters the engine.. a turbocharger is just short hand for Turbine Supercharger.. i.e. the turbine part is what defines it as a exhaust driven supercharger. kinda like everyone calls markers, Magik Markers... all Magik Markers are markers, but not vice versa... but everyone calls them magik markers regardless of brand.. well the supercharger we are all talking about here.. the belt driven one is acutally correctly called a Lysholm Compressor.. so who the hell remembers that.. besides supercharger sounds cooler, just a matter of sales pitch thats all.. there are actually many many types.. turbine chargers (or centrifugal chargers), axial chargers (used in jet turbine engines), comprex chargers all are dynamic chargers.. that is air flow varies with engine speed.... bendix chargers, eccentric-vane chargers, lysholm chargers (incorrectly called superchargers) are all positive discplacement chargers which provide equal manifold pressure at any engine speed.. the list goes on..

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J. Hunter Allred

'95 GS-T free mods, K&N, 3" HKS Superdragger, ACT2600, lightened flywheel, and otherthings that escape me at the moment. T-25 handicapped though. As you can see its a work in progress. Figure if i buy it i should buy it once :)
 

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just my 2cents but you must have looked up the definition of a turbocharger in something like a webster's dictionary which is not correct. remember they also have a definition for yonder,ain't,[email protected]$ker and just about any other slang you can think of. there is no supercharger! just supercharging!
with one of many various styles of BLOWERS!
although there is a turbocharger-which is a gas powered turbine driving a centifugal blower. [The supercharging blower may be geared to the crankshaft, in which case the power consumed in driving it is added to the friction loss of the engine. A turbocharger employs a gas turbine operated by the exhaust gases to drive a centrifugal blower. The turbocharged engine not only gains increased power capacity but also operates at improved fuel economy. Airplane engines are usually supercharged both by geared blowers and by turbochargers to provide the large pumping capacity needed at high altitude.] quaoted from a reputable encylopiedia. sorry it was so long !
I hope this clears things up :)
 

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well i am saying is coming greatly and most directly from a book on turbocharging theory intitled oddly enough "TurboChargers".. i am pretty sure it is the law here.. and yes there are superchargers.. a blower is just another name for the same beast. but you do make a good point for me.. a blower is a supercharger, but not all superchargers are blowers.. guys.. enough, dont play with my supercharger knowledge.. i have many a resource to back up what i say. if need be i will start leaving a "works cited" page in my signature...lol please dont bring it to that. otherwise im gonna findout were you live and secretly swap your ceramic muffler bearings with some generic pot steel ones in the middle of the night.

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J. Hunter Allred

'95 GS-T free mods, K&N, 3" HKS Superdragger, ACT2600, lightened flywheel, and otherthings that escape me at the moment. T-25 handicapped though. As you can see its a work in progress. Figure if i buy it i should buy it once :)
 
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