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Discussion Starter #1
After getting the big16G, I thought getting the Supra SMIC will make my life easier so I don't shoot way too hot on the EGT. Well, it seems like it's not sufficient. Perhaps supra smic is not my problem though.

cruzing on the high way, I get about 1420F at 80mph
I tried bumping up the AFC% a few at 3000rpm (I cruize around there) so I don't overheat EGT (past 1500F)

Normal cruzing (stop and go traffic) I stay about 1200F~1300F (I do believe supra smic is good enough for stop and go traffic)

I can't go WOT without hitting 1600F at 6300rpm when I get SUPER knock or a fuel cut...

I have walbro 255 hp pump but don't have upgraded fpr. Could that be the trouble maker? making my fuel curve all f*ed up?

If someone can agree with me, let me know. Anyone know if there's a solution or is supra smic not good enough for big16G on long freeway drives and hill climbs?

AuGustus
 

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Why are you trying to tune by EGTs while cruising? The ecu has closed loop control of the situation and makes its own decisions. As far as running too high EGT at WOT, that can also be caused by being too rich (fire in the hole) so you cant go by that alone. Too rich will also bring on fuel cut sooner. I cant believe I'm asking (because O2 and EGT are so close to useless..) but what are your O2 at WOT when you see the high temps?

FWIW on my setup I could run very well at anywhere from 850 to 950 degrees C depending on my current mods/setup. So much for the majic 900/1600 degrees number ;o) The probe for my gauge burnt up 6 months ago. Now I use it as a convenient way to plug the hole I drilled in the manifold for it ;) I doubt I will ever replace it. Tune for knock and HP (be it dyno or track) and to hell with O2 and EGT. They have often cost me up to a half second when I listen to what they say.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
humm, I learn something new everyday :)

I think datalogger is coming soon, and also I'm going to get a fpr to make sure I have my fuel undercontrol
 

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Moved to Help Tech.

BTW, usually when you say "overheating," most people think coolant temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
dsm1995gst said:
Moved to Help Tech.

BTW, usually when you say "overheating," most people think coolant temperature.
I'm not really looking for help though, but perhaps that's where I should go?

I just did a review on the product, and it seems like supra smic isn't good enough for big16G setup (on long highway drives and mountain climbs) that's all ;)

actually, since it's in help section, does a fmic lower EGT?
 

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Well the primary goal of the FMIC/Upgraded IC is to cool the intake charge so that the engine doesn't knock at higher boost levels. Colder air also allows for a more dense air charge thus more power.

However the intercooler can indirectly affect the EGT readings, for example the timing may be getting pulled and the Air/Fuel will ignite later and the flame front can sometimes be pushed into the manifold itself and effect cause the EGT to go up that way... That doesn't mean neccesarily (sp? I always get that one wrong) that your Engine (or at least the important parts) are seeing EGTs that high.... In any case if this is happening to you then it shouldn't, your timing shouldn't be getting pulled, or like someone stated before you may actually be running too rich causing knock.

Can you give us a little more info.. What EGT guage/probe are you running? Not that it is very relevant or accurate but what are your A/Fs at WOT. How do you know your getting knock, and what are your Fuel settings? Any more info would help...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
more info

well, I'll just list the things I know, but I have something retarded to add at the end. You'll know what I mean when I get there.

The probe I run is from Westach, the ones that they use for the aircraft. It's is extremely sensitive and accurate. With that connected to the Autometer EGT (only up to 1600F), I have a really active gauge that will vary up and down the scale very quickly depending on how hard I drive the car.

I am equipped with an S-AFC and have been tuning quiet a while. also, I have walbro 255lph high pressure pump (no rewire) and no upgraded fpr. Running 550cc inj btw.

The retarded part is this. I cannot go WOT. I have posted this many times, and I'm not yet going to fix this because don't have enough money right now. The problem is, I have a 3" dp, cat, and a cutout that lets all the exhaust out the side of the car right after the cat. Thus, my car is loud as hell and free flowing. Thus, this creates boost creep.

AS of now, I have tuned my car to do this.

I can hold the boost at 15psi if I hold the throttle at 40%. Anything higher will result in boost creep and eventually lose efficiency for the turbo (big16G). Another words, my car pulls hardcore at 40% throttle, 15psi, running 93 octane gas. It usually doesn't overheat and will stay around 1580~1600F at 6000rpm and I hit knock or fuel cut.

My AFC Setting

LO-Setting
1K -20%
2K -18%
3K -4% (this is my rich spike so I can cruize without going over 1500F on the freeway)
4K -12%
4.5K -9%
5K -7%
6K -7%
7K -7%

High Setting
1K -10%
2K -10%
3K -8%
4K -7%
4.5K -6%
5K -5%
6K -5%
7K -5%

I tuned the car so that at 40% throttle, 15psi boost, I get .93~.94V reading on the a/f on the S-AFC (blue wire mod), thus that's why I guess the car pulls really well at that.

I know some people are going to say, get a external wastegate or a full 3" catback, etc. Also, people are going to ask me to install a higher capacity fpr. But all of that doesn't and won't solve the problem or review I'm getting at. (it may...:confused:)

If I'm cruzing at 80mph at ~3500rpm, I'm getting 1500F.
Up the hill, I have to cruize easy so that I don't stay around 1500~1600F and hear fireballs every so often or get cut (my bov sounds and the car stalls/slows down automatically).

Yes, perhaps I should get a datalogger...but, I really don't have any money for that either. Anyone wanna share their datalogger? I'm attending RPI. If you heard of it, you're close enough =)

IS that enough info? Ask if you have more Q, I would like to solve this prob.

btw, I also replace my coolant a week ago (if that suppose to have helped), nothing changed.

AuGustus
 

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Discussion Starter #8
humm.. does dsmlink work with s-afc?
 

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This could be part of your problem...

You are using a westach probe with an autometer guage.. NOT to say that is the problem, just that the 2 need to be calibrated for the same "type." For example, on my car I use a typek westach that ranges I believe from 700-1700, as well as the guage which is designed for a typek probe... First things first double check that and if they are not compatible throw your EGT readings out the window cause they are most likely inaccurate.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have the k-type probe along with one of the standard egt from autometer. I thought about it when I first installed it, but I never really checked up on what type can autometer accept. Anyone know where I can find out what "type" autometer pyrometers are?
 

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Adding that few percent at 4K will do nothing for for your low throttle EGT, unless the rest is way out of whack. The ECU will be automatically taking out whatever you put in. Like I said above, its closed loop control at that point. So dont worry about EGT while cruising.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
you make a valid point about the closed loop at cruising, but if I'm cruising at 1500F and want to go WOT, I hit 1600F hella fast (fuel cut or knock at 6000rpm+). If I slow down and temp drop to 1200F, then go WOT (40% throttle), I can get pretty close to 1600F throughout all 5 gears and sometimes go over! Ouch~ I just don't want a blown engine. I'm getting datalogger programs!!! Anyone know what kind of obdII diagnositic cable I should get to link up to my latop? The have them online all over the place.

AuGustus
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well well, I closed my cut out, so I'm running 3" from dp to Cat, then everything back is stock. VERY RESTRICTIVE, but keeps me good at 17psi =)

Went out to tune just now and I think I almost blew up my engine. I'll explain but first, here's the result.

Lo (Current Setting) Works VERY well
1K -24%
2K -20%
3K -17%
4K -23%
5K -4%
5.5K -14%
6K -14%
7K -24%

*Yes I did change my 4.5K point to 5.5K because I'm sick of that little dip thing it does at 4.5K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi (Current Setting)
1K 0
2K 0
3K -7%
4K -16%
5K -9%
5.5K +4%
6K +10%
7K +10%
This game me SOME problems:
I'm not able to go WOT past 5.5K or else I might risk blowing the engine because of EGT readings. Also, past 5K, performance starts sucking = timing getting pulled. 5.5K stutters a little bit.

Description (5th gear 3000rpm~redline pull):
3K .94V 1500F
4K .93V 1570F
5K .93V 1580F (Perfromance starting to suck)
5.5K.95V 1600F (right on the line of 1600F and performance is sucking more)
6K .95V 1600F+ (The needle passes it by about 50F and I'm getting worried/performance sucks HARD)
7K Never got there
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi (First Setting)
1K 0
2K 0
3K -7%
4K -16%
5K -12% (different from above)
5.5K -6% (different from above)
6K +3% (different from above)
7K +3% (different from above)
This is giving me MAJOR problems:
I get to 5K and the car starts to stutter, 5.5K, the car doesn't pull as hard, 6K EGT past 1600F and car makes "barely noticeable metal banging sound" Can't get to 7K
Description (5th gear pull from 3K to redline):
3K .94V 1500F
4K .93V 1570F
5K .91~.94V 1600F+
5.5K .88V~.94V EGT JUMPS to 1400~1500F very suddenly
6K ?V WAY PAST 1600F already!!!
7K I would of blown the engine if I got there

So Bottom line, I cannot get to
 

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Your number are all very strange. I dont see how you came up with some of those.

Hold the rpm at 1k, adjust for 0 trims. Do the same at 2k, and 3k. From 4k up use 3k settings. Do this at idle, or cruising if you want. If you have stock injectors these numbers should be very close to 0s unless you hacked the mas. Even then 3k up will be very close to 0s. Forget about EGT while cruising. I have never seen a case where that mattered in the slightest way. Even if the O2 is failing, its running rich (safe) and that could be casuing EGT to be high. Either way I cant see how your motor is in danger of "melting" or "blowing up" while cruising... ;)

Borrow a datalogger if you dont have one. Trying to tune an AFC without one is a huge waste of time, and a shot in the dark at best. :)


BTW, according to TRE all of the guages we use are type K. Which makes sense because type of thermocouple used depends on teh temp range you are trying to measure. And since that range is the same for all of us...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
datalogger it is. I have programs...need OBDII cable!!!

Well, I tuned the S-AFC according to RRE's suggestion. Not holding them liable, I thought the car pulled quite FAST indeed. It was exciting (while tuning) to get to 120mph, slow down, and have people drive by and give you the birdie. One lady pulled infront of me, slammed on the brakes, gave me the birdie, etc. Stupid stupid stupid.

If anyone knows why my EGT drops so suddenly from 1600F to 1450F in the middle of 5.5K while WOT, please let me know. I also cannot pull hard past 5.5K. I lower EGT, I go past 1600F (if that mattered) my car makes barely noticeable metal clinking noises and performance sucks. I raise EGT, I get poor performance and can't Redline either. Runs way too hot of EGT readings (if that mattered). Arg...datalogger will only tell.

Also, I emphasis on the fact I don't have a upgraded fpr, which I regret know because I think it's causing me all this fuel mapping troubles.

Suggestions?

AuGustus
 

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when I first started tuning with my SAFC my HI TH settings were at -8 to -16 and my EGT's would be way up there. Timing was being pulled ran like a pig. Well after talking to one of the GURU's at the track he explained that with 550 inj we are running 20% richer so right off start with -20% on the HI TH settings. He explained that I was running so rich that it was dumping out into the O2 housing and burning real hot there giving me false high EGT's. I was skeptical so I went to -18 across the board on the HI TH settings. On my next run I gained 4 mph in the trap and took of almost .4 on the ET. and my EGT's only went to 800c. I have a greddy so it's in celcius. Next run I set it to -22 across the board my temps went up to 850c i missed 2nd gear but at teh top of 3rd i was getting 21 degrees timing pushing 20psi gained another 1 mph in the trap. So hell I set it at -24 ran a 12.9 et at 102 mph. EGT at 875c 18degree timinng. I turned the boost up 2psi ran 12.867 at 103 mph. THis is long. What I'm trying to say is your running way rich lean it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
wooo, more tuning to be done today =) yay~

I'll report back

AuGustus
 

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Discussion Starter #18
44pirate said:
when I first started tuning with my SAFC my HI TH settings were at -8 to -16 and my EGT's would be way up there. Timing was being pulled ran like a pig. Well after talking to one of the GURU's at the track he explained that with 550 inj we are running 20% richer so right off start with -20% on the HI TH settings. He explained that I was running so rich that it was dumping out into the O2 housing and burning real hot there giving me false high EGT's. I was skeptical so I went to -18 across the board on the HI TH settings. On my next run I gained 4 mph in the trap and took of almost .4 on the ET. and my EGT's only went to 800c. I have a greddy so it's in celcius. Next run I set it to -22 across the board my temps went up to 850c i missed 2nd gear but at teh top of 3rd i was getting 21 degrees timing pushing 20psi gained another 1 mph in the trap. So hell I set it at -24 ran a 12.9 et at 102 mph. EGT at 875c 18degree timinng. I turned the boost up 2psi ran 12.867 at 103 mph. THis is long. What I'm trying to say is your running way rich lean it out.
hum, if it is true, how come though, is the 02 reading at .93~.95V at WOT? is that a mis-read? Shouldn't it be way rich?
 

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Are you absolutely sure that you don't have any intake leaks? When I flipped the end tank on my MKIV smic, I did a pressure test and all was well. Many other people have reported air leaks from the end tank after flipping it around.
A boost leak will cause the high O2 readings. As far as EGTs go, that's a tough one. I always thought that a rich condition would cause low EGTs because the fuel is cooling the combustion chamber. I know that this may sound trivial but, make sure that there are no leaks in your boost gauge's vacuum line. If it were you'd be at a much higher boost level without ever knowing the difference. Higher EGTs from higher boost and more pressure to force the intake leak open.
That's all I can come up with.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I am pretty sure I don't have a boost leak. After installing my supra smic, I did a pressure test and went up to 19psi. I did hear a little hiss though, but it was very very minimal (believe me) from the BOV spring bolts, and I also fixed a couple of huge leaks on the smic (I think supra owners chuck them in the garbage but then when they became popular, they dug them up and cleaned them :p )

So I'm good up to 19psi on boost leak tests, which is less than what I'm running right now at 17psi. Unless I hit a few ditches and split open the end tanks again, I doubt it though because I don't feel a performance loss at all.

I'm going to follow the advice and lower my Hi settings to -16% across the board, then -18%, then maybe past -20% if that will help me with my EGT and weird hesitation on high rpm. I'll report in tonight~

This thread is becoming quite long and hopefully will help others out there fine tune their S-AFC and get rid of some of the relative problems. PEace out

AuGustus
 
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