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Discussion Starter #1
Alright so, I've been thinking lately about there not being a whole lot of information that's easily accessed about the Ostrich 2.0, what it does, how you set it up, or what the software for the Ostrich looks like and how it works, so I think it's time that I make a sad attempt at an informative Ostrich thread. I'll mostly be explaining what it is, how it works, installation, and the programs available for it. Any of you guys that are currently using Ostrich, doesn't matter if it's TunerPro, Jackal, or Werewolf, you are very encouraged to chime in. But, I must ask that we don't bash ECMLink/ECMTuning at all, and I ask all ECMLink/ECMTuning users to remember the old mom's saying of "If you don't have anything nice to say DON'T SAY IT AT ALL!!" Let's keep it respectful, and courteous. ECMLink/ECMTuning users are also welcome to ask questions if they are curious about anything with the Ostrich. So, here we go.


The Ostrich



This is the Ostrich. Without going into a whole huge amount of details of it's technical makeup, it is essentially a big flashable EPROM chip. The Ostrich itself isn't a tuning program, it is only the actual piece of equipment that allows you to use tuning programs to rewrite the ECU's parameters. It plugs into your ECU in the EPROM spot. The ribbon cable in the picture above has an end on it, that looks just like an EPROM chip, and it has 28 pins. Therefore, the only thing you need to run an Ostrich is a socketed ECU. The ECU side of the cable clips into place like any normal chip would, and the cable itself is so thin, you are able to run it out of the ECU and close the case without cutting any holes. The cable itself is a pretty good length so mounting solutions isn't a problem at all, most people mount in to the left of their coin tray, but some people mount it in the glove box too, your choice. The other side of the cable plugs into the back of the Ostrich unit itself, and that's what makes the Ostrich different. It is basically a mini computer that emulates your EPROM chip that you can take with you/fits in the palm of your hand. But, anyway on the front side of it is just your basic, average USB port. The supplied cable connects your Ostrich to a laptop, or if you don't have one, you are able to detach the Ostrich and tune using your PC. The Ostrich itself has an internal battery that is good for 20 years, so if your car battery dies or gets unhooked, if you unplug the Ostrich, if you unplug the ECU, no matter what you do, you will not reset your tune. This is how you are able to tune using a PC if you don't have a laptop. This ALSO makes the Ostrich a great anti-theft device, because it unplugs in a snap, and the ostrich unit itself is small enough to fit in your pocket comfortable. No Ostrich in the car = no ECU = no start. :D I won't spend too much more time talking about the Ostrich itself, or how it installs, so on to the Ostrich programs!!


Tuning Programs/Solutions

There are three tuning programs available for the Ostrich for DSM applications, so I'll break it up into three different sub-categories for you.

TunerPro V5

Download TunerPro here

Alright, first up is the most difficult to work with. TunerPro. TunerPro is where the "chip burning" movement started with, and where Jeff O. made his keydiver claim to fame, and many others. TunerPro has been around for years and year and years, and a yahoo usergroup exists still to the very day dedicated to the DSMECU code, and development as such. TunerPro is by far the most versatile of the three tuning solutions, as it really has no limits on what you can do to the stock ECU image file. Boost by gear, 10,000 or beyond RPM maps, extended load maps or pressure based maps, anti-lag, stutterbox, speed density, literally everything. There is an infinite amount of what you can do with TunerPro. However, there is a slight catch. TunerPro doesn't have a 'hold your hand' interface, and in order to do these advanced things on your own, you must quickly learn hex editing, hex code, and the very detailed inner workings of the DSM ECU EPROM code. Thankfully though, there are a lot of people that have already done this work for you, and there are a lot of maps already out there that are perfectly stock, but have all the options for antilag, stutterbox, speed density, without speed density, and etc. So it's really not that difficult as it used to be. Next paragraph explains a little more in detail on how to get started using TunerPro.

Okay, the way TunerPro works is, in order to start editing and tuning with TunerPro, you first need the EPROM files to load into your Ostrich. These are called a .bin file, and a .xdf file. These files are very commonly found on both the yahoo usergroups, and a website called dsmecu.com. Now, after you have found the E931 .bin and .xdf, it's fairly self explanatory from there. Open the .bin first, and then select the .xdf. After that the EPROM file is loaded and ready to be edited. A screenshot below is of the AFR table just as an example of how easy it is to use TunerPro once you have everything you need. You'll notice to the left is the list of editable things. Click it twice, edit what you want, and then you are done. :D



If you see something in the list to the left you don't have that you want, well this is where TunerPro becomes difficult or not so user friendly. Chances are you can find another .bin and .xdf(you need both) that has what you want, but if you can't you must surf the yahoo usergroups and find out how to do it yourself. Most of the time it will require hex edited a line or two of the EPROM's code, but to be honest with you this may seem daunting the first couple of times, but you quickly get the hang of it. Overall TunerPro may be more involved, but it offers unparalleled control over the ECU, as you have DIRECT access to the actual EPROM's code and not just a list of things. If you don't like something, you have the power to change how the ECU sees it, how you see it, and what it does. It is a powerful tuning tool. I won't get too in detailed with this either unless someone asks more about it, so onto the next tuning tool. Jackal. :cool:




Jackal

Alright, Jackal is a lot different, but a lot less complex than TunerPro. Reason being, Jackal is ONLY for Speed Density for 1G DSM's. Where as TunerPro controls everything (MAF, Speed Density, 1G or 2G, it's universal), Jackal is only for Speed Density. However, Jackal is quite a bit easier. It has an interface similar to that of ECMLink's(not exactly similar, but just using it as a comparison) where everything you need is right there for you in an easy to use interface. You do not have to download or find any .xdf of .bin files, there is so searching for anything. Download Jackal, plug your Ostrich in, open Jackal and you are done and ready to edit! :D

Jackal interface


Jackal Speed Density(also known as DS-Map) offers the same things(and one or two more things) as TunerPro and ECMLink's speed density. Admittedly there's not as much to say about Jackal because it's a lot simpler, but it does everything you need. It offers direct control over AFR tables, Timing table, VE, as well as all the other engine parameters and sensors you need control over. You can control how much fuel will be added or subtracted based on temperature that your IAT sensor sees, you can control coolant enrichment, startup enrichment, stutterbox/anti-lag/NLTS, rev limiter, FPS/Cyclone/Nitrous/Meth control, and you also have full control over closed loop operation, meaning you can choose to run in open loop full time, not using your stock 02 sensor at all, meaning you can run your wideband in the stock 02 location. I don't recommend installing a wide here, as I personally think it shortens 02 sensor life, but it's all up to you. It offers all these and much more. It also offers ECU based boost control, where you only need an electronically controlled solenoid, and the ECU will control the boost.



The newer versions of Jackal offer the ability to view and clear check engine light/test codes, and a better graphed logger. Both TunerPro and Jackal have built in loggers, and after I tested them both with what I personally used to log, they both were logging around the same samples per second. The only thing TunerPro and Jackal/the Ostrich does not have is a logging cable that comes with the package. A logging cable is currently in development, you can choose to make your own out of a few wires and a couple resistors, or you can use an old pocketlogger/palm logger style cable, a null modem, and a keyspan adapter. Or if you so choose you can run ECMLink's logging cable as it is only $55 and works great.



(Disclaimer: I have an old version of Jackal that does not graph the log, the new versions of jackal all graph whatever set parameters you want)

Overall Jackal is a very, very good tuning solution and it is very user friendly as you can see. There are no sliders or etc, but a novice could still tune just fine.


Werewolf

Werewolf is brought to you by the same person who created Jackal Speed Density, and it is basically Jackal on steroids. 10k rpm, fully pressure based maps(all of them), complete control over all of the solenoids, not just the FPS, data tracing(highlights what cell is currently in use by the ECU. TunerPro does this as well), and a whole lot more that I am forgetting right now. I don't personally use Werewolf because it cost $200 and I don't have that kind of cash, but it is a great software. It offers a lot over the standard Jackal. I don't have a lot of information with Werewolf because as mentioned above I don't use it or tune with it. Here are some SS's below though.








Closure

I'm sure there are a lot of things I am forgetting to add that people will point out, or that I will remember and because I cannot edit this post after a certain amount of time, new readers are encouraged to keep reading for any and all added information.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Damn 15 minutes goes by fast.


Just to add, both Jackal and Werewolf can be bought, and downloaded from DS-map.net, but you need to be registered on their forums(it is public, all are welcome to join), and you must have 5 posts before you can download either. This is to encourage you to be a part of the community if you plan on purchasing jackal/werewolf, and so you'll have a better chance of sticking around.
 

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Should have just bought ECMLink. :p

But seriously, thanks for taking the time to post this up. I havent read it yet, but someday I will take the time to sit down and read through it all. Maybe I will just change my mind on what engine management system I will use in the future.

;)

PS- My old green car was tuned on an Ostrich setup.
 

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With all the time taken for this, I've made it a Sticky. I think there is a lot of helpful information here.
Since I see MyBoosted got the first wise crack in, I'll be sure to keep an eye on the thread to make sure things stay on track with good, useful information.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Should have just bought ECMLink. :p

But seriously, thanks for taking the time to post this up. I havent read it yet, but someday I will take the time to sit down and read through it all. Maybe I will just change my mind on what engine management system I will use in the future.

;)

PS- My old green car was tuned on an Ostrich setup.
:p But, I didn't know that at all. Why didn't you tell me? :p

With all the time taken for this, I've made it a Sticky. I think there is a lot of helpful information here.
Since I see MyBoosted got the first wise crack in, I'll be sure to keep an eye on the thread to make sure things stay on track with good, useful information.

Thanks a bunch Rook! I hope guys on all ends of the spectrum can come together and provide good information, and set aside all the "mine is better" or "I hate your software" bullshit.
 

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Question, can I save two maps? Let's say I want one for low boost and pump gas and another one for high boost and race gas.
And you didn't mention a price anywhere, or did I miss it?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oh, shit, can't believe I did that.

The Price of the Ostrich unit itself is $175, it comes with the ribbon cable, usb cable, spare 28 pin socket, sticker, business card, and a pen. Jackal is $20 to download, and Werewolf is $199.99....TunerPro is free to download. :)


Also, yes, Frank. You can save as many maps as you like, there is no limit. You could realistically have a laptop absolutely full of thousands of different maps. It takes like a second to load a new saved map to the Ostrich. :) Just open whatever custom .bin/.xdf file in TunerPro, or load whatever custom basemap you have saved in Jackal, press "upload to Ostrich" and you are done. :)
 

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Thank you for taking the time and doing this. Great write up.
I hope this might lead to others doing write ups on the other tuning platforms on the market.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
^ Me too. The more options we have available to fully tune your engine, the better. The days of the SAFC are more than gone. Maybe someone else could do a write-up on flashable ECU's, what's involved in flashing them, and etc for the 2G guys that want a great tuning solution for a very, very cheap price.
 

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Hmmm I might try to run my setup using this tuning software.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
:D That's what I like to hear. It really is a great product, and easy to use. Best thing about it though, is that so long as you don't want to drive both vehicles at one time, you can use the Ostrich for both your 2G...AND your 1G. Get another ribbon cable and socketed ECU for the 2G and whenever you want to drive the 2G just load the 2G file you have saved with all your settings/customization into the Ostrich via TunerPro and you are done. :D


Even better, the Ostrich 2.0 isn't just for DSM's. It's for so many different vehicles it really is ridiculous. Off the top of my head I know that many GM models use it like Cavaliers, Camaro/Firebirds, the Mustang guys can use it, and all makes/models of Honda/Acura can use it as well, and many more I am forgetting. So say you sell the DSM, you can keep the Ostrich and use it for your next car. :D
 

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I looked into Ostrich when i was looking for engine management. I decided against it when the person who is doing my tuning said he hadn't used it at all, and wasn't comfortable with it, and recommended Dsmlink instead. I would like to see a comparison between ostrich and link, by a well regarded tuner such as Lucas English, to see what his opinion is about the pros/cons of the ostrich vs. link. Until those kind of direct comparison questions are answered, i fear Ostrich really has nothing going for it except that its free to download the software. But DSMlink software is free as well, the cable is what you pay for, just like the Ostrich....So in my mind they are pretty much the same thing, with DSMlink having the huge advantage in customer support, and the Ostrich having the advantage of not having to have your ECU chipped.
When it comes down to it, you get what you pay for. DSMlink has customer support up the yin-yang, and if i have a question i have an answer. Ostrich? Like it was said at the beginning of the thread, very little is known about Ostrich, and to me that says a lot.
The fact that Link is only a little more money and offers soooo much more support (their website, forum, everybody and their mom with knowledge/maps to share) really makes the difference for me. Not to mention i really like the idea of supporting people who have really went for it and dedicated themselves to the community, and devoted themselves entirely. Its not the best business plan, or the most profitable to make something compatible with only dsm's, which makes me believe they are committed, and not in it purely to make a buck.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Each Tuner has what he prefer's, if I could get an honest unbiased comparison I would, but sadly I feel that today everyone is too biased to make a fair judgment call between the two. Also, Jackal and Ostrich are only $195 and it has more going for it than V3 Lite which is $375. A more comparable would be Ostrich vs V3 Full which is $500. That's quite a lot more than a "little" price difference between the two.

Also, don't take what I say out of context. I said not much is known or discussed about the Ostrich on THESE BOARDS. There is a wealth of knowledge out there on the yahoo usergroups, DSMECU.com, and DS-Map.net, as well as many other local DSM boards. The purpose of this thread is to spread the knowledge about the Ostrich on DSMTalk, seeing as how it's not really discussed, which honestly I can see why, because every Ostrich/Jackal/TunerPro thread turns into a "Well DSMLink has more support and therefore is just so much better even though it does the same thing". Honestly I don't know how people can recommend Link over the Ostrich when they haven't even USED the Ostrich enough to know it's ins and outs. This is where the whole "get someone to actually fairly and unbiasedly compare the two" comes in.

If you have a question about the Ostrich, ask it on DSMECU.com, or DS-Map.com and you will get tons of support, just like with ECMLink. Also, you said it yourself, the Ostrich and ECMLink are pretty much the same thing. So why pay more, for the same stuff? You can pay $500 for a cable and a chip, or $175 + $55 for a cable and an Ostrich that both serve the same purpose. I would argue the "more support" claim all day, but this isn't an Ostrich VS ECMLink thread. Again, to reiterate little is known about the Ostrich on DSMTalk. DSMToonerz has a little more information on the subject, but it's not that much more. This doesn't mean it's an unheard of product though, many people use it, have used it, and continue to use it.

Also, I'm not even going to touch the whole "supporting people who really went for it" thing, but I will say you should do a little more research and talk to Mr. Tom Dorris about where he got the idea for DSMLink, and where he got all the ECU code for antilag/nlts/afr maps/etc from. :cool:


But, I won't keep going. I want this thread to be about Ostrich, what it does, what it's capable of. Not an Ostrich VS ECMLink thread. I can see this going south fast and that's not what I want. So instead of having an knock-down dragout about it, if you don't agree with me, or I don't agree with you let's just agree to respectfully disagree and continue on with the point of the thread. Not pointing fingers or accusing anyone of anything, but I want everyone to know the difference between a genuine curious question, and a question that is meant to stir the pot or start an argument. Again, not saying anyone has done it yet, but these are the things I'd like to prevent. From both ECMLink users AND ostrich users. Myself included.
 

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Really, I like the idea of having multiple options, that's for sure. I would much rather have Ostrich available than not have that option. Since i can ask questions as a link user, do you know anybody who offers a professional tune with Ostrich? Why wouldn't the person doing my tune (very well know record holder in the dsm world) know more about it if it was as good? I'm not trying to bash on Ostrich, i'm just asking the questions i couldn't get answers to when it was time for me to decide if i wanted it, and whether link was worth the extra money. I did consider Ostrich, very carefully, and had to decide against it, because it just hasn't gotten the support and endorsement yet from the industry. Thats why this is a good thread, but you have to expect comparisons to be made if you are asking for input.

How about starting a thread for Ostrich users to post logs or to give dyno results with their particular mod lists? I'd love to see what Ostrich users are doing. I get that Ostrich is an alternative, and i'm interested in the capabilities, but you'll have to quit telling me its as good and show me.
 

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Hmm, now i'm intrigued, this seems to be the only forum where Ostrich gets even minimal support, (besides ds-map.net) which doesn't seem right considering that Ostrich IS a slightly cheaper alternative that seems to do what people need it to do.
To counter, $500 is or isn't a lot of money depending on what you have to spend, and what you are satisfied with receiving. ECMlink's forum is far superior to any I've found supporting Ostrich.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Really, I like the idea of having multiple options, that's for sure. I would much rather have Ostrich available than not have that option. Since i can ask questions as a link user, do you know anybody who offers a professional tune with Ostrich?
Yes, I do actually. As you can see from the SS's, the area tuners need access to are all open and ready to be changed same as with ECMLink. If a tuner can tune with ECMLink, he can tune with the Ostrich using TunerPro, Jackal or Werewolf. If he doesn't know the proper AFR, timing, or VE to run for the most power, reliably...then he shouldn't touch a car period, ECMLink or not.

Why wouldn't the person doing my tune (very well know record holder in the dsm world) know more about it if it was as good?
I'm not sure why, maybe because he has used a certain tuning program or two, he doesn't take the time to research all the different available tuning solutions out there? Also, sponsorship is a big part of this too. If I was sponsored by another company to run their product and promote it, I wouldn't be using or recommending anyone else's product either. ;)

But, the Ostrich is known very well in the Honda world and the domestic world as they use something called "Neptune" which is basically the same thing. Any Honda tuner that can tune Neptune will know the Ostrich's in and out. Truth be told, ECMLink is a power house of advertisement, and a lot of people love it. Basically, I could ask you the same question, but in the form of "Why would my local engine builder, who has built countless record breaking V8 dragsters, not know the ins and outs of a 4G63 or what it specifically needs? Does that make it not as good or worth my time? ;)

I'm not trying to bash on Ostrich, i'm just asking the questions i couldn't get answers to when it was time for me to decide if i wanted it, and whether link was worth the extra money. I did consider Ostrich, very carefully, and had to decide against it, because it just hasn't gotten the support and endorsement yet from the industry. Thats why this is a good thread, but you have to expect comparisons to be made if you are asking for input.
Well, honestly I didn't ask for input on how Ostrich was better than ECMLink or how it compares to ECMLink or anything like that. I asked for input from the people of the community that used the Ostrich, and for their setups/anything I might have forgotten. The point of the thread is to spread knowledge on the Ostrich, and give a window into the software, it's uses, it's potential, how hard it is to setup and work, for new Ostrich users to ask questions, etc. Not to compare it to the other tuning solutions on the market. But since you asked, I will answer these questions to the best of my ability. However I warn you now, I'm not going to let this become a 10 page long thread about what it does over ECMLink, or what ECMLink does over it. It's not what this thread is about, because the title of the thread is "The Ostrich 2.0 Thread" not "Compare Ostrich to ECMLink". I guess I should have stated that more clearly in my first post.

How about starting a thread for Ostrich users to post logs or to give dyno results with their particular mod lists? I'd love to see what Ostrich users are doing. I get that Ostrich is an alternative, and i'm interested in the capabilities, but you'll have to quit telling me its as good and show me.

Working on that now, I'm calling for people I know using Ostrich that run good times/have a nice setup to chime in on this thread, no new thread needed. They can get more in depth and in detail about their setups and how it benefits them, better than I can.
 

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You've convinced me to go with Ostrich. Now I just need to get the funds and ditch the HKS VPC/SAFC. Yes my car is still kicking it oldschool. I'm cureious to know if my HKS VPC would work with Jackle seeming how it is a speed density sensor before it hits the VPC unit.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, I got a question on where to download the proper .bin/.xdf for TunerPro, and a suggestion to post the link here and it was a really good idea, don't know why I didn't think of that.


So, here is a link to the DSM ECU yahoo usergroups. You need to join the usergroups to download the files I believe, which means you need a yahoo email address. But, realistically, that's not that hard to do.

Here's the link. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-ecu/
 

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I'm stuck on the Ostrich. As soon as I get the cash for it, I am going to get it. I am about positive I am going to need some help tuning it though.
 
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