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Discussion Starter #1
If I get an M/T ecu + 450 injectors will it be a problem using them with the A/T cams? I know I CAN get a set of M/T cams very cheap but as long as I'm using my 13g turbo I'm going to be using the A/T cams. < I have no fuel management system and wasn't planning on getting one either >
 

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91-Bluebird said:
If I get an M/T ecu + 450 injectors will it be a problem using them with the A/T cams? I know I CAN get a set of M/T cams very cheap but as long as I'm using my 13g turbo I'm going to be using the A/T cams.
I'm not sure why you think your injectors will affect your cams somehow, or vice versa?

< I have no fuel management system and wasn't planning on getting one either >
If you get 450cc injectors with no fuel management you will run rich no matter what. So your gas mileage will suck basically. And I don't know if the M/T ECU will work or not or make a difference.
 

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Make sure you use a fuel press regulator from a turbo M/T car.
If you do that it will be fine.
 

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Changing to a m/t ecu will not make those 450 injectors run right. You HAVE TO get the resisitor pack for the 450 injectors. The ecu's are basically the same thing. Just a little different idle control. Other than that they are the same ecu. You can use an auto ecu for a manual, and a manual for an auto . The automatic trans is controled seperatly from the ece by the tcu. The 450's will work great with those automatic cams. They actually work pretty good to produce low end and mid range torque. Get that resistor pack though
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Very confused. I'm talking about a 1g turbo A/T and replacing the ecu + injectors with its M/T counterparts. Why would the car run rich? Why would I need fuel management? FP regulators are different from A/T + M/T turbo models? There's a different resistor pack for M/T + A/T's? This is the 1st time I've heard of this.

I was always under the impression that you can just swap in a M/T ecu + injectors to the A/T turbo model and that's that.

I thught the A/T ecu was programmed for 390's and the M/T ecu for 450's that's why I thought if I go to 450's I'd need the matching ecu when not using a FMS?

The reason I'd want to swap is because I'm under the impression that since the 450's max at about 16 lbs boost that the 390's will max at a noticeably lower boost. I'd want to run 15 lbs safely in my A/T without worrying about maxing out those 390's.
 

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Yes the fuel pressure regulators are different.
When I put 450`s and a 14b set up on my automatic, all i did was change out the fuel pressure regulator to one off a M/T car. I did not change to a M/T ecu. I am not really sure why you want to put a M/T ecu in a automatic car.
Only mods to the car were a 2.5in exhaust, boost controller,k&n, 450`s, 2g manifold,14b. I kept the automatic cams and no fuel controller.
The car ran great and idled great. Full weight fwd automatic and it would run 13.7 on khumos.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Tom N. said:
Yes the fuel pressure regulators are different.
When I put 450`s and a 14b set up on my automatic, all i did was change out the fuel pressure regulator to one off a M/T car. I did not change to a M/T ecu. I am not really sure why you want to put a M/T ecu in a automatic car.
Only mods to the car were a 2.5in exhaust, boost controller,k&n, 450`s, 2g manifold,14b. I kept the automatic cams and no fuel controller.
The car ran great and idled great. Full weight fwd automatic and it would run 13.7 on khumos.

"The car ran great and idled great" Did you have a logger to verify everyting was as kosher as you say?

With the 450's + A/T ecu max boost is about 16 lbs?

How much boost were you at whem you ran a 13.7 and was it with pump gas?
 

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91-Bluebird said:
"The car ran great and idled great" Did you have a logger to verify everyting was as kosher as you say?

With the 450's + A/T ecu max boost is about 16 lbs?

How much boost were you at whem you ran a 13.7 and was it with pump gas?
Yes i have a logger.
I ran 16-17 psi. I dont know where you get this max boost stuff from.
i used pump gas with a additive.
 

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I have a quick "cam" question as well. Slightly easier to answer than the above.

What are the specs for all four years/tranny combinations of turbo DSMs?
(ie. 1G A/T, 1G M/T, 2G A/T, 2G M/T)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Tom N. said:
Yes i have a logger.
I ran 16-17 psi. I dont know where you get this max boost stuff from.
i used pump gas with a additive.

I've always read in dsm forums like this one that 450's max at about 16 lbs :confused: What do you say they max out at?

Why are the ecu's different :confused:
 

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91-Bluebird said:
I've always read in dsm forums like this one that 450's max at about 16 lbs :confused: What do you say they max out at?

Why are the ecu's different :confused:


I dont understand why anyone would think a set boost level is the bench mark for when a injector max`s out.
They max out when they reach 100% duty cycle.
 

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double post.
 

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The a/t ecu is programed for 390cc injectors. If you want to run the 450's with no fuel control the proper way to do it is to put in a m/t ecu an maybe a fpr (this one i didn't know was different). You will run rich with no fuel control and 450's with a a/t ecu. It won't matter what cams you choose to run.
 

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What are you talking about. The resistor pack makes up for the difference in injectors. The ecu makes no difference. The only difference is the idle control circuit.
 

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There is no reason to change the ecu.
You dont have to change the resistor pack either.
Do what I said and your car will run and idle fine.
 

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The difference between the ECU's are the feul maps and timing curve, because of the injector size and air volume difference of the turbo's. The auto ECU will still work though.
 

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Wow this thread has a lot of misinformation. First off you if you want to put the 450's in your car with out an safc or any kind of fuel control you will need the injectors, the fuel pressure regulator off a 5 speed car, and the ecu out of the 5 speed car. The auto cars run higher fuel pressure and without swapping out the fpr you will run a little rich. The fuel maps programmed into the ecu's is what makes them different. That is why there is no need to swap out injector resistor packs. They are the same in both cars. Note that you can just swap only the injectors and tune with an safc or similar tuning device if you want to go that direction. Also the auto ecu retards ignition timing when shifting, and with the 5 speed ecu you can get around this, which results in slightly firmer shifts.
Next the auto or 5 speed cams won't affect fuel delivery. You can run any cams you want but, the lift of you auto cams is very very close to the lift of all 90-92 cars auto or not, but some of the 93-94 turbo 5 speeds had slightly higher lift cams.
Back when I still had my 390's in my car, I could run 16psi on my small 16g and be right around 100% duty cycle.

Sorry for taking up so much space, but I hope this helps, Kevin
 

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Like I have already said just put in the 450`s and use a fpr from a turbo M/T car.
You dont need to change the ecu or resistor pack.
If you want back the screw out in the mas a bit and it will run great with no need for a afc.
 

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I know this is an old thread but I Cant leave this for someone else to find. Everthing talonkev said is correct. The maps in an auto ecu and an m/t are not the same. I have three DSMs two 90 m/ts and a 91 auto. You have to switch ecus if you want the 450 to work right in the auto. I have done it and if you dont switch you are going to run rich as hell.
 
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