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Is the muffler man full of lies?

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95GSTurboooo

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I went to a muffler shop, to change out my o2 sensor (after cat)

With the car on the rack, he asked me when I had changed my cat. I have about 110k and never changed anything regarding the exhaust system (only the front o2 sensor @ around 90k miles)
He proceeded to show me that my piping had a discoloration because it reached temp about normal and that was caused, because I had not changed out my cat and my front 02 sensor @ 60k and rear @ 100k. He says I'll need to change out my front 02 sensor again, because the exhaust gas burn that one up too.

A little skeptical about this, he says that the material inside the cat has melted and has greatly reduced air flow and cause the piping to heat up to the extreme that is killed both my 02 sensors resulting in poo performance and gas milage. He got my attention and was right about my performance and gas milage. He then showed me a few cross sections of cats with the material melted inside (not a pretty picture) He then told me that he was able to increace the top speed of his VW bug, just by adding a flowmaster muffler.

Ok, he wants to make money right, so he told me he would change out my OEM cat with the same stock part, but with a flowmaster muffler and change labor to install both 02 sensors for $575. He guaranteed me that my car would run ALOT better, but GREAT performance and IMPROVED gas milage.

MY QUESTION
Should I change out my stock cat for the same part or buy an aftermarket cat (the muffler guy says I HAVE to buy the SAME stock part, because its the ONLY one that is ODBii compliance and will pass smog and the others wont) wich comes to my next question. Is he full of shit on that one? I've heard and seen alot of people install aftermarket cats on their eclipses?
Im stuck and not sure what to do....
 
#2 ·
He sounds like he's full of shit to me.. Worst case I'd change the cat for a high flow aftermarket one, after, and only I made sure it is bad.
 
#3 ·
Yeah, just pick up one from http://jegs.com/ or http://www.summitracing.com/, they are about the cheapest high quality aftermarket cats I have seen. As for putting on a flowmaster muffler, don't bother, get the cat, replace the sensors yourself from NAPA or some other parts store, and save about $300 towards a turbo back exhaust.......
 
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#4 ·
95GSTurboooo said:
He then told me that he was able to increace the top speed of his VW bug, just by adding a flowmaster muffler.
Click to expand...
Right there, I would have laughed in his face and walked out the door.
Reason number 1: I doubt a muffler would increase power significantly enough to even notice, especially on a bug (assuming it's N/A)
Reason number 2: I won't trust any MAN who drives a VW bug.

Buy an aftermarket high-flow cat. Then find a cheap place that will put it on for you and not try to buddy-fuck you like this 'muffler-man' is trying to.
 
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#6 ·
Yeah, the guys at Jeg's are very helpful, even if they cannot selll you a part, they will tell you what you need to do and how to do it cheapest, very cool of them.:tree:
 
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#7 ·
95GSTurboooo said:

Ok, he wants to make money right, so he told me he would change out my OEM cat with the same stock part, but with a flowmaster muffler and change labor to install both 02 sensors for $575. He guaranteed me that my car would run ALOT better, but GREAT performance and IMPROVED gas milage.
Click to expand...
He probablly is right about the cat being melted inside from the heat, I have seen and done that.

What I would do if I was you is take a broom handle and smash the shit from inside the cat out into the garbage, re-install the cat and away you go. No heat problem, no melting problem, no O2 problem and you'll have more power than you will with any muffler cat mod you can pay for.

On a VW bug they have a very restrictive exhaust systems and the top end was extremly limited by the power of the engine. So yes a muffler would increase the top eng greatly because the gear is there, the power is not. On a motor with a 50 year old exhaust system design making increases in power is easy thus resulting in a higher top end. Think about it before you go laughing in somebodys face.

Problem with regular mechanics is they do one thing with one product and get good results once from it and it's the end all be all of performance upgrades and all cars must now have it. Your car will not benefit from what he's talking about. WHat you need is a larger diameter exhaust system with a straight through muffler. Flowmaster is still chambered (2 or 3 depending) which restricts flow on a turbo car which has a lot of pressure in the exhaust system.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
ok, ok, ok now im officially confused as to what to get. Im ready to buy, but just dont know what???

This is what I want.
#1 Power
#2 Quiet as possible (dont care for the loud noise)

With this in mind on a all stock exhaust system on a 95 GST, what should I get? A down pipe w/ or just a cat back? Just a new cat and muffler?

btw: what size pipe do I have now. If its 2.5, then that should be enough upto a 16G turbo (IF I upgrade) arrording to extrememorotsports.com They also say
"Upgrading the stock downpipe removes a major restriction in the exhaust path, as the stock pipe is a 2" diameter, crush-bent pipe with a thick-diameter flex section that makes the pipe even more restrictive." Is it 2" all the way?

I've searched the arcives and found a few good answers, but not the one Im looking for. Thanks guys!
 
#9 ·
If ya plan on staying emissions friendly, just get a high-flow cat. Your O2 sensor will flag if you gut your cat. OBD-2 is very sensitive. A High flow is your best bet for power and less noise, and not throwing CEL's.
 
#10 ·
Its not 2.5 inches all the way back. It MAY be 2.25 at some point toward the back but I doubt it.

Ive got a buschur 2.5" dp, 2.5" test pipe, and a thermal 3" catback. Its nice and quiet at cruise, and has a really nice sound at wide open throttle. It sounds similar on a 2g from what Ive heard. There are several other exhausts that people have had good results with on the 2g, and also several options to just put a muffler on and have a local shop run the piping.

Whatever you get, start from the back of the car and work your way forward. You dont want a big downpipe feeding a small stock catback. So start with the catback section. Tthen do something about the cat, either high flow, gut it, or a test pipe. Last part would be a downpipe.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Yes, I do plan on staying on emmissions friendly
For 1 I live in California (very strict smog laws and I want to pass the smog tests)
and 2 I want to help keep the air clean (not thats it clean anyway)

I think I know where to start now....from the back to the front. Makes sence....I'll get a 2.5 "cat back and a 3" high flow cat (or should I get a 2.5" high flow cat?)

Now that i've decided....what company should I go for?
QUIETEST and cheapest......Thanks alot for the help guys!
 
#12 ·
being a technician, maybe I can try to shed some light. Most likely the reason that he said that you could only use the oem cat and have it work with the o2s is because that is guaranteed and nothing else is. While it is proven that others work, some mechanics, especially ones who arent familiar with a particular vehicle will go with only whats safe. If he seems nice, he will probably install what you want on the vehicle. If not, then he just doesnt want a hassle, which is fine too. good luck.

Jesse
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
I would agree that he would say that to be safe, but he said that the after market cat WILL NOT pass smog and the stock cat is OBD-2 compliant and nothing aftermarket is.....

Yet, just about everyone on dsmtalk has made mods on heir whole exhaust. I dont see a problem with it as long as I pass smog :)
 
#14 ·
yeah, and unfortunately the techs who think they have to show you how smart they are(when they are usually the least intelligent) and they will only tell you what HAS to be instead of what is most likely. and like you said, as long as you pass smog...

Jesse
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
After more searching for a quiet catback exhaust system with performance I ran into this thread

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=54736&highlight=quietest+exhaust

People have said that the Greddy Evo is quiet and some say the RSR.

I found a few on EBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33630&item=2458565853

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33630&item=2457659090

RS-R Says theirs is the quietest exhaust note on the market
http://www.rs-r.com/exmag.htm

What do you guys think?
 
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95GSTurboooo
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