Machine Shop said DSMtalkers are WRONG! What do you think?

gen1runner · Feb 27, 2004

by the way I love the piston with the valve head stuck in it!!

Taboo · Feb 27, 2004

acidikjuice said:
One more question: should i pay the extra $250 to have them assemble the bottom end? i took it apart mysaelf with no fuss or confusion, so i don't see why not? or is there some hidden techinical aspect im missing here that would justify the cost?

It depends on how big chances you're willing to take just to save $250 and how much reliablity is worth to you, but, in your case, I'd say you should let them do the assembly since the probability of the block being assembled correctly is nearly 100% (or at least much higher than in case of doing it yourself) - if performed by Jackson Auto Machine. The days of slapping the engine together with Plastigauge and feeler gauges are long gone and may possibly apply to some low-RPM old Chevy 350 built on very tight budget and put in some beat up truck, but building a modern high-RPM performance engine requires specialized tools and fair amount of experience not everyone has. I'm not saying that there's no way in hell you could do it yourself, but would have to invest into a set of calipers, bore gauges, dial indicator, ring filer, etc. and really take your time.

anomalyinva · Feb 28, 2004

I wouldn't go with JE pistons for a daily driver. The metalurgy of the piston makes them prone to expansion and contraction, which leads to scoring the walls of the block. I recommend Ross pistons.

Spoolin90GSX · Feb 28, 2004

Yeah when i was gonna get a rebuilt block i didn't hear anything positive about the JE's. but on a sidenote about assembly of the block and all, i'd let them do it all, at least that way you should get some kind of a warranty with it, aside from them saying *oh, well we guarantee that it'll start. after that yr on yr own*

acidikjuice · Feb 29, 2004

Yeah that valve is nice and stuck in there! i'm gonna keep that one as a show off

too bad i can't say i wacked it in there myself.

so they will be putting it together is all i can say. i stopped being a cheap ass after you guys got on me for it so i guess everything will turn out alright now

so thanks!

So no JE's? just get the ross pistons? okay i'll do some jmore searching.

4SFED4 · Mar 1, 2004

Interesting, I have had two street motors built with JE and both have been running and are still running well(good comp checks) for the past 2 years, one is still daily driven 20+ miles a day. I have heard other complaints of JEs piston slapping, no problems their either. I believe most of peoples' problems arise from shotty machine work.

dsm6yrs · Mar 1, 2004

acidikjuice said:
So i took my 6 bolt engine to Jackson Automachine, a local machine shop here in MD that use to work on extreme's cars (USE TO, not anymore) and they do a fair amount of work on 4G63's (thats why i went there, see www.jacksonautomachine.com) BUT they said that this setup is NOT GOOD:

6 bolt crank with 6 bolt big rods and 95 .20 over pistons

They said it isn't reliable and i should just get forged $$ internals if i want to have a good street setup. they also said that removing the balance shafts is BAD and that 10k miles down the road my flywheel would just shake off! But everyone on here HIGHLY recomends ditching them. The machine shop said it causes too much stress on the motor EVEN if i balance the bottom end.

What do you guys think. am i wasting money with the big rods and NEW Topline 95 pistons? Is removing the shafts a BAD idea in anyway?

This car will be street driven everyday, not make more then 350 wheel HP (i wish, probly more like 300). So whats up.

Wow! That is some of the most ridiculous garbage that I've heard in a long time. Thanks for the laugh - ignore what "Jackson Auto Machine" told you. Balance shaft removal increases reliability, oil pressure, wheel horsepower, and cabin vibration (maybe). Your flywheel will not fall off unless it is installed incorrectly.

I'd definately recommend going to a different garage. They just advised against your using the setup you described and may feel little to no responsibility to you if you run into a problem (even if it is due to their own error). That garage may take your job less seriously, and I believe you will increase your chances of seeing this proven setup fail.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

311GSX · Mar 2, 2004

I had my machine shop work done through them and they did excelent work. You could eat off everything it was all balanced, and the clearences were dead on I didn't even need to check them but I did anyway.I've got about 30k on the motor and I race it alot and not any trouble. If I need any machine work done in the future I'm taking it to them.

1gtalonawd · Aug 1, 2004

Im purchasing their Stage 2 Motor from them i had everything priced out to $2289 i for one would trust their work, and i dont want my engine just to run for 10K and fall apart or throw a stock rod.

V8killerTSi · Aug 2, 2004

ok, quick question here...since here on Puerto Rico I don't really know how good machine shops work...when you give them an engine(crank,rods, pistons, flywheel, pressure plate...all that stuff) to balance it...what they are doing is what Taboo said about the counter weights of the crank and rod/pistons??? thanks

acidikjuice · Aug 3, 2004

JAckson Auto Machien (JAM) is an excellent shop to do the work. I can tell you that jerry jackson knows his stuff when it comes to the 4G63 and can make some amazing heads. My bottom end was immaculant.

Yout will not be disappointed with anything from there as long as you listen to their advice and think what your goals are. They now do use B/S kits after i told them what DSMtalkers had to say.

EXCELLENT WORK FROM JAM.

pinknuggit · Aug 4, 2004

I ran into that same problem here.
I live in Fort Smith, Arkansas, which is a medium sized down of about 80,000 people. There are about 20+ machine shops, and 8 Automotive machine shops.
I work at one of the Automotive machine shops, and we did not have an arbour big enough to bore my 1g rods out to fit my 2g pistons. I tried to do them myself, but i used up three stones and only got half of what i needed. I think (off the top of my head), that the pin hole on the rod had to be enlarged .040", and i could only take .020" out of it.
After using a full tank of gas driving around the city searching for someone to do the machine work, there wasn't ONE auto/general machine shop in town that had the right equipment to do it.
Alas, a certain person came by recommendation from most of the machine shops. I took my rods/pistons to him, and he said that it was Impossible for the engine to run with the setup and gave me attitude to why i bought the "Wrong" pistons.

I would figure that in a city with my population, that there would be at least One person/shop that could do it, but i did not find One. I had to use a low grit (don't remember) hone brush, and sit there for Hours (or it felt that way) honing the pin hole out until i was .001" shy from the wristpin diameter. It took me about 3 days to finish them myself, but i did not have to pay anyone to do them.

I don't know how my little story contributes, but i thought i would keep it somewhat on topic.

StreetSurgeon · Aug 4, 2004

Jam is a very reputable shop man, to say they don't know dick just wouldn't be true. I wouldn't exactly say that the 6bolt rods and 2G pistons setup is weak or prone to blow or anything, but I'll definitely say that it's a shit setup when compared to going with even an eagle/wiseco forged bottom end... Period.

How often are you looking at building your motor? If only once I'd be sure to put the good stuff in there the first time. That's just my .02c

StreetSurgeon · Aug 4, 2004

I have heard other complaints of JEs piston slapping, no problems their either. I believe most of peoples' problems arise from shotty machine work.

Damn, it won't let me edit my post to add this buuuut...

I've heard that JE pistons can be prone to "slapping" and have had that happen to a few of my friends (albeit it happened in their Honda motors)... Now, I've been told that the JE piston is a very stout piston, but it has no silicone in it? So the tolerances have to be DEAD on when they're installed.

So, these friends with honda motors are definitely cheap bastages, and I'm assuming they just had any tom, dick, or harry slap em in the motor and boom.

AlecW81 · Aug 7, 2004

I know it's kind of late, but you can't argue with the success JAM has had in the DSM community. Look no further than the results Extreme has had with their shop cars...

v8embarrasser · Mar 19, 2005

TEC said:
Jackson Auto is a pretty good place for machine work. They do an excellent job at what they do and they are one of the few places in the tri-state (DC, VA, MD) that has a torque plate. Take your stuff there and have them do the work. If they want to explain something about machining then listen, if they want to talk to you about parts tune them out.

could not be said any better! businesses are here to make money. whatever geek walk in the door and listen then che ching$$$$$$$$. and they will tell you to go and tell all you freinds and when you do chi cheng$$$$$$$$$$$ mo money mo money mo money see my point!!

2.3Liter · Mar 19, 2005

Well any shop will tell you what ever set up you are wanting to go with is crap since thye expect you knot to know enuff..so they can get you to go al out . the 95 pistons and 1grods gives ya around 8:1 comp if im correct if not correct me
but it makes one good set up.

acidikjuice · Mar 27, 2005

This thread needs to die! anyways it has been awhile since the motor was built and i abuse it all day long and have had NO problems! JAM is an excellent shop and i would/will be doing biz with them again.

StreetSurgeon, i didn't say they didn't know dick. all i wanted to do was compare what they said and what is commonly talked about in the DSM community. they said BS shafts where good while DSMers on here say "get rid of them". they also didn't like the 1G rod/95 piston combo. i'm glad i went with JAM.

Machine Shop said DSMtalkers are WRONG! What do you think?

gen1runner

Taboo

anomalyinva

Spoolin90GSX

acidikjuice

4SFED4

dsm6yrs

311GSX

1gtalonawd

V8killerTSi

acidikjuice

pinknuggit

StreetSurgeon

StreetSurgeon

AlecW81

v8embarrasser

2.3Liter

acidikjuice

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities