Last night my timing belt snapped and im sure you all know what happen. i have a extra head in my shed and i need a choice to make on what head gasket to go with. i have 3 choices the OEM 4 Layer Metal Headgasket, Cometic Standard Metal Headgasket, and the Cometic High Pressure Metal Headgasket. Ill be running 20psi. also do u think the Power Enterprise Super Strong Timing Belt is worth the extra money?
oem 4 layer head gasket or cometic gasket
Conceptvip
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Last night my timing belt snapped and im sure you all know what happen. i have a extra head in my shed and i need a choice to make on what head gasket to go with. i have 3 choices the OEM 4 Layer Metal Headgasket, Cometic Standard Metal Headgasket, and the Cometic High Pressure Metal Headgasket. Ill be running 20psi. also do u think the Power Enterprise Super Strong Timing Belt is worth the extra money?
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yeah i should have the car another 60k but wouldnt i have to replace the belt either way then
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Unless you have the block machined for the metal headgaskets, I would only use the Mitsu composite gasket (not the 4 layer metal one). The composite head gasket will hold 25+, and you are less likely to develop a leak. Also, if you use a metal headgasket without having the block specifically decked for it, you will develop a leak most of the time.
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TEC has a good point about needing both the head and block surfaces decked. I didnt do this when I rebuilt my first motor and I used a cometic and the motor would pressurize the coolant system.(overheating). After I finally had the decks done on the head and block I used the cometic high pressure gasket and it sealed like a charm, no problems whatsoever.
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Did you use gasket spray the first time? Was the head resurfaced the first time? I just had my head resurfaced, and am going to put the HP on. I'll clean the block up, but I'm not having any machine work done to it.gen1runner said:
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yeah ill just go with the composite one just to make sure plus its alot cheaper lol and ill just go with the oem timing belt
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The head was decked but not the block and it still leaked, no copper sealant was used, I dont feel that would have made a big difference anyway. Also ajusa makes a head gasket for dsm's(compositegasket) I believe they run around 70 bucks and can hold up to 400 hp. Never tried one but just a suggestion. When in doubt just go oem.
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I hope you aren't suggesting the 4 layer metal gasket for a non-decked head and block (even with copper spray). If so, you are completely wrong and please don't qoute something you thought you heard Taboo say. He is on this board if he has an opinion then let him speak for himself.philipkrotch said:
Well I've now done head jobs on three differant DSM's and I've used the 4 layer /Hylomar combo on each and they held fine. Only the last one had the block decked and head cut. The first one kept blowing the stock Mitsu so I went to the 4 layer/Hylomar combo.
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shut the f*ck up TEC. and i did it with just the head decked...and its FINE. so take a lick.
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I've tried it on two engines, thinking that the first time it didn't hold might have been a fluke, and it still didn't hold on the second. Two of the guys that I built blocks for also tried it with the same results.TsiBaron said:
Unlike the composite gasket which can form itself somewhat to slightly curved surface and requires a heavier grit/cut deck to hold it in place, the metal gasket is just that metal. It will comform somewhat to a slight bow or bend but it really needs a completely flat surface.
Also, the original block and head surface were cut with the composite gasket in mind, not the 4 layer. However, maybe on a very low mileage block you may be able to get away with it, but to me its not worth the effort to experiment to find out. Headgasket jobs are not very fun, so I'd rather pick a gasket that I know will work the first time.
philipkrotch said:
You are a complete moronic ass wipe. Your reading comprehension must still be at the first grade level. I said a non-decked block and HEAD.Your post has proven one thing, your as much of an idiot as your post sounds. Welcome to my ignore list.
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ya retard...i have a NON-DECKED BLOCK. and my head was decked. and it worked fine. i had said that you should use that copper spray shit if u didnt have one or the other done because it will help seal where there is imperfections in either the block or head. maybe i should have worded it a little better, but it didnt mean u had to jump on me about it. u moronic asshole.
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Now children!!!
Bottom line if you want a good seal with a metal gasket you should probably have both surfaces decked. Although Im not saying it hasnt been done on only a decked head with some spray sealant. But IMO with the experiances Ive had with metal gaskets I will always deck both surfaces.
Bottom line if you want a good seal with a metal gasket you should probably have both surfaces decked. Although Im not saying it hasnt been done on only a decked head with some spray sealant. But IMO with the experiances Ive had with metal gaskets I will always deck both surfaces.
Although the block needs to be just very rarely decked, the finish of the mating surfaces of the block and the head is equally important when the metal head gasket is being used. The OEM gasket is much more forgiving in that department and will actually provide a better seal with a bit rougher finish (around 60 RA) of the mating surfaces since its thermal expansion is just very minimal. Since the metal head gasket relies on thermal expansion of the block, the head and gasket itself more than the OEM component, it's desirable for the finish of both mating surfaces to be as smooth as possible (and preferably lapped). Since many guys install the metal head gasket with ARP studs when swapping heads or just upgrading the (possibly blown) OEM gasket without having the block rebuilt and only clean the deck surface of the block, the copper spray sealer will provide a better seal than in case of installing the metal head gasket dry. However, if you have the block machined during engine rebuild and plan on going with the metal head gasket, have the block decked and the head resurfaced at very low table speeds (= something most machine shops don't really want to do since it costs them time and therefore money). If one's really anal and doesn't mind spending money, a specialized machine shop with surface sender can achieve very smooth finish bellow 40 RA. The copper sealer is just a cheap alternative to shelling out the money for the costly machine work and substitute for the mating surface finish imperfections. We've used it with great great success on both the OEM and the metal head gasket. Of course, the better the finish of the mating surfaces, the thinner the coat of the copper sealer (so it really just fills the surface imperfections without actually becoming another layer between the mating surface of the block or the head and the actual head gasket. Think of the sealer as "surface leveler" ). An important note: If you use the copper spray, let it dry for a while (some 15 minutes) - 'til it becomes tacky - prior to installation.
). An important note: If you use the copper spray, let it dry for a while (some 15 minutes) - 'til it becomes tacky - prior to installation. That'd be me. Mitsu Metal HG and ARP's went in with no other surface prep than a scraper and a little brake cleaner.Taboo said:Since many guys install the metal head gasket with ARP studs when swapping heads or just upgrading the (possibly blown) OEM gasket without having the block rebuilt and only clean the deck surface of the block, the copper spray sealer will provide a better seal than in case of installing the metal head gasket dry.
An important note: If you use the copper spray, let it dry for a while (some 15 minutes) - 'til it becomes tacky - prior to installation.
She's held countless 30 psi blasts and 20-25 psi daily freeway runs for the past two years or more. What Martin said. I used the Perma-Tex copper-spray-a-gasket stuff and let it get tacky. I have a pretty good feeling that it'll be a real bitch to get the head off of my block when it comes time.
Just take the ARPs out and take the car for a few WOT-30 psi runs. The head will come right off...Van said:I have a pretty good feeling that it'll be a real bitch to get the head off of my block when it comes time.
(beats the freaking prybar we had to use on the minivan to get the heads off a couple of years back )
I wish I knew this.Van said:That'd be me. Mitsu Metal HG and ARP's went in with no other surface prep than a scraper and a little brake cleaner.
What Martin said. I used the Perma-Tex copper-spray-a-gasket stuff and let it get tacky. I have a pretty good feeling that it'll be a real bitch to get the head off of my block when it comes time.
I've always thought it's a MUST to have a thorough head and block prep (machine) to have a "complete" seal between their mating surfaces. That's the only reason I've never installed a MHG on my car. Oh well, I guess you learn something new every day...BTW phillipkrotch, you need to chill out.
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