Different coilover setups, recommended most for track/street use? Tein, JIC?

Rx3 · Jun 1, 2004

jtmcinder said:
Finally, compare what I've done to my car to what a ProKit does, for example. The wheel rates when running ProKits are around 165/130. Yes, you read that correctly. ProKits are actually more front-biased than stock. They move weight transfer to the front, which is exactly the opposite of what we want to get the car to turn.
- Jtoby

That would explain why my car pushes so much on some of the tighter auto-x courses I've run. I always wondered what the wheel rates were on the Eibach Prokits, but could never find the numbers. Thanks Jtoby.

jtmcinder · Jun 2, 2004

I've driven an AWD 2G with Illuminas and Prokits. For the money, it's a fine street set-up. It might even be OK for low-pressre road racing, such as open-track days (I wouldn't know; I'm not allowed to do that sort of thing until BabyThing #2 is 18 ... long story). But I'm positive that Illuminas and Prokits don't cut it when autoXing. Not only are the springs more front-biased than stock, but Prokits don't have the rates to keep the fronts off the bumpstops when you're turning on R-compounds.

You have to keep a bunch of (semi-competing) issues in mind. You want the car lower (to get more front camber and reduce weight transfer), but you absolutely must stay off the front bumpstops. This means short front shock-bodies. And this means Koni Yellows or something fancy, like a TEIN Flex or a JIC FLT. Your only other defense against bottoming out the front suspension is high spring rates. But this requires outrageous rear rates to keep the car from pushing. And you really don't want to drive a car on the street with high rear spring rates.

One of my suggested ways to set up a 2G for the street and autoXing is to get the person to commit to a maximum rear spring rate. (If you're in Pennsylvania, come to any Central PA Region autoX and I'll show you what 450s feel like. It's not too bad, but, then again, I have Konis.) After that you choose the front rates to balance the car the way that you like it, then we set the ride height to just keep the fronts from bottoming out, and, finally, we do whatever is legal in your class to get more front camber. All of this assumes RM sways and either R-compounds or Azenis or MXs. It can take a while to do, but you will learn a ton along the way. Alternatively, you can find someone with approximately your driving style and just copy their set-up. That's actually what I did in my second phase of tuning. (No, I'm sorry, but I won't talk about Phase One.) Then I branched out again when I felt like I knew what I was doing. Now I'm in a class that allows even more suspension mods, but - because I'm rather silly - I've been focusing on the engine. The only change that I've made in the last year or so is pillowballs. Killing a Koni will ruin your week.

- Jtoby

DSMturbo2 · Jun 2, 2004

jtmcinder, i really want to start learning the in's and out's of suspension, you really sound like you know your stuff. aside from going to a track what are some good resources to learn what makes a car handle...

im going to be looking for a new suspension set up before too long and have thought seriously about the fla2's (i have a 1g) i probably wont be autocrossing but would like my car to hande like it would dominate on the track. i do understand like you were hinting at that this migh be some insane spring rates, but this will be a car that will only see the road maybe on weekends... it will not be my daily driver and it is not going to be a long trip kind of car, so i dont think the harshness will be a problem.. but like i said i really just want to understand exactly what is going on. i really want to know what the best set up would be for me... thanks a ton and sorry to hijack... even tho it might help.

Unregistered · Jun 2, 2004

Thank you for sharing all of this information. I was going to blindly go with the Tein SS-P after a reading a few positive reviews but now you've given me a lot more to search for and some new factors to consider when putting together a suspension setup, especially the wheel rate calculation which I'd never heard of.

Would you recommend any boards or lists for researching suspension setups for dsms? I've been reading back through the dsm-autox list, are you a member?

jtmcinder · Jun 2, 2004

The best list to read - as you seem to have discovered - is the yahoo DSM-autoX list. But be careful with the newbie-like questions. Some days we can be a tad NABR-like. But most of the time we're OK.

Another great resource - even if I hate to admit it - is Dennis Grant's site. Go to farnorthracing.com and look around for a link to the DSM-tech pages. It's something like dsm-autox.com, but I'm not sure. Avoid my newbiw site for now, as I've been ignoring it for years (and my sense of humor is, well, different).

The best books for a start are Fred Puhn's "how to make your car handle" and all the 'tune to X" books by the late Carroll Smith. Again, pointers to these are on Dennis' site. They can had from Amazon.

But, most of all, I urge you to go to as many autoXes as you can and ride in as many cars as you car. If you can find a well-set-up DSM, that's the best. Especially if the owner will either let you try it or will explain why s/he did what s/he did.

- Jtoby

Rx3 · Jun 3, 2004

what is the exact group name for the DSM Solo 2 list so I can subscribe?

jtmcinder · Jun 4, 2004

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-autox/

- Jtoby

Rx3 · Jun 4, 2004

Thanks.

Unregistered · Jun 5, 2004

Thanks for the advice- I think I'll go post a thread on the local board asking if anybody ever auto-xes; I haven't seen a DSM the few times I've gone to watch. I still haven't tried it myself, my car wasn't in good enough shape for any motorsport until the engine transplant three weeks ago, and the stock shocks are not in good health. I honestly don't think any of the dsm owners in my area care for anything but the 1/4 mile, but hopefully there will be a few replies to prove me wrong.

Different coilover setups, recommended most for track/street use? Tein, JIC?

Rx3

jtmcinder

DSMturbo2

Unregistered

jtmcinder

Rx3

jtmcinder

Rx3

Unregistered

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities