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#22 ·
I love my 1G Link. I was running an AFC, custom burned chip, and MAFT. The car made good full throttle power but did not like to be driven around town at part throttle. Now I cannot make direct comparisons because I change my complete setup over the winter and put the Link in then. However it cruses around town better then it ever did and idles like a stock car with the 950cc injectors and HKS 272s. I would recommend DSMLink to every one who plans to go past a 16G and stock cams.
 
#23 ·
Chicago1 said:
Would you guys recomend this for a newbie like me or stick with an AFC first and try tunning 550 with it? Just wondering. Of course this is after I finish up ordering my parts and a bigger turbo. This is something I am thinking about for the future. I see alot of people go with a AFC setup then go dsmlink and love it. I just dont wanna spend extra cash on something that I will use for a bit then get rid of later down the line. I dont have cash to blow like that. Understand what I'm trying to say? Thanks guys
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Think of it this way:

Datalogger: 175 bucks
PDA: 50-100 bucks
Safc: 200 Bucks

You're up to 425 bucks right there, and then most people wind up getting an EGT gauge, now you're up to the cost of DSMlink right there. DEFINATELY worth going to, no matter how weak your car is right now, starting the groundwork correctly will make your future mods so much more potent, and diagnosing any future problems you may come across so much easier. I went the Safc route because DSMlink came out right when I was purchasing my Safc etc, and I was a moron for not doing my research and seeing what DSMlink was about. This was years ago, and I definately learned from my mistake. Go for it, you wont regret it. At the same time go with 880cc or so injectors, DSMlink can fully support them, and really injectors dont vary too much in price once you go higher than 550's, so its well worth it just to go stupidly large and know you'll never have to replace them ever again.
 
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#24 ·
I have been doing alot of research on dsmlink. I liked your article. I am picking up a 1g on Saturday. It don't run, but ima gonna make it run! After it's up and running, I guess all I gotta get is an eprom ecu and some money for the software. Already have a decent little laptop that I could run it on.
 
#26 ·
nukefission said:
But, what worries me about DSMlink is the fact that the timing advance corrections you make are applied all the time. The ECU has several different timing tables, each with its own unique configuration. With keydiver's chip each of those tables can be manipulated how I see fit; DSMlink seems to gloss over this problem with only one timing advance adjustment window for everything, unless I'm misunderstanding its capabilities.

Thoughts?
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If you can’t make your own chips then the DSMLink is your second best alternative. You need to be able to scale your fuel and timing tables to do anything remotely impressive on pump gas, even if it is just scaling the factory values. If you make any kind of real power and drive on the street, you need to be able to make these adjustments, but you already know that.

I can burn my own chips. Its nice being to tailor the FULL fuel AND timing tables to my needs. The way I have my car set up now I add a lot of low load timing. At about 0psi boost I am around where the stock timing maps are. Then I pull out some timing for the high load boost portion areas of the maps. Then I tweak some trouble areas like the RPM that boost hits hard on my turbo and take out a few degrees just to eliminate any chances of knock. Then I experiment with adding timing in the upper RPM areas to try to keep the car moving when the cams are puking out. I have also leaned out my fuel maps 1AFR point when in boost. The non boost portion of the maps remain the same. On race gas I take out 2.5AFR points in boost from the stock a/f ratio (~9.8:1 verified on a wideband). I then keep adding timing in the boosted areas of the maps till it doesn’t want anymore.

These are the benefits of being able to change your whole map instead of scaling it. I’ve been a real as***** about this in the past, and for good reason. The benefits are worth the time to code it in DSMLink even at the added expense of making the software a little harder to use. Nobody wants to listen however. Everybody touts people like Russ Coxe running single digits on DSMLink and that it needs no improvement. However for guys who run on the street and want to fine tune their WHOLE maps to cure trouble spots on pump gas, things are a little different.

EDIT:

Curt Brown ran 9's on an EPROM Ecu, that doesen't mean that it will work better than anything else offered for a street driven car. See my point ;) .
 
#27 ·
Danl, you are completely correct in what you say, however I feel the reason behind the basic timing corrections, is that it adds alot of extra coding, plus it makes it less user friendly. I already watch so many people's faces become baffled the moment I begin talking about DSMlink jargon, that its obvious that to most beginners it is already intimidating. Once you use it for quite a while you definately get the hang of it and wish there was more. There are two threads on the DSMlink forums, one for Major upgrades, and one for Minor upgrades. Both are threads of REQUESTS that people have made for future upgrades to dsmlink, and just about everything under the sun has been offered on the table in those things, this being one. Personally I would love to add some low load timing, or hell lean out low load fueling, so as to even increase fuel mileage (tell the ECU to aim for something other than 14.7:1 for those of us without emissions), but I think Dave and Tom just simply have their hands full. With those guys, they are always on the forums helping out fellow DSMers with their issues, as well as creating and sending out the DSMlink equipment in an extremely timely manner. Personally I would find it great if they were to change a good number of things around, but I also feel the service they provide may be hindered if they were to spend that much more time on R&D. Thats one of the great things I love about DSMlink is the unbelievable customer service those two guys can provide, its quite incredible. To lose that would be awful.

However, the DSMlink creaters did make it an open source code for exactly this reason; So that people could see how its done and perhaps change it if they wanted to. Id imagine they'd have no quarrels if someone knew what they were doing and were able to change the code to do these things and then pass on the secret to them so that they may implement it into their own releases. So there isnt anything holding anyone back from doing exactly what you're saying, just being only 2 guys I dont think Dave and Tom have quite the time to always do all these things, great as they may be.
 
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#28 ·
danl said:
Everybody touts people like Russ Coxe running single digits on DSMLink and that it needs no improvement. However for guys who run on the street and want to fine tune their WHOLE maps to cure trouble spots on pump gas, things are a little different.
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You're preaching to the choir on this one. This is the one thing that kept me from jumping on DSMlink. I like drag racing and all but the reality is that: 1) drag strips are too far away from me, and 2) I like driving on the street. :) If were handy with ECU code I'd be doing exactly what you are, but I'm not, so...

It's a moot point anyway. I've decided to go with the EMS. I didn't realize it until recently but after it's all said and done, the EMS will be the same price or a couple hundred more for my car than DSMlink; I wouldn't mind even a couple hundred for the level of control you get. Not that any of this is on topic, though. :D
 
#29 ·
I wouldn't doubt that the creators of DSMlink are working towards resolving that issue. I emailed them back and foward a few times and they are VERY helpful when it came to questions. The user support alone is worth the money :D .

One thing that really grabs my attention is that they are constantly working on new things, I've heard a rumor of a full map setup. It can only get better right? ;)

Well I'll be ordering mine on June 11th and should have the laptop shortly thereafter. I'll comment again in this thread when installed.

Thanks to all the thread contributers, its a great discussion about the timing being always active. I asked my friend the same thing when he showed me his 2g DSMlink and he didnt really have an answer for me.

-R
 
#30 ·
nukefission said:
You're preaching to the choir on this one. This is the one thing that kept me from jumping on DSMlink. I like drag racing and all but the reality is that: 1) drag strips are too far away from me, and 2) I like driving on the street. :) If were handy with ECU code I'd be doing exactly what you are, but I'm not, so...

It's a moot point anyway. I've decided to go with the EMS. I didn't realize it until recently but after it's all said and done, the EMS will be the same price or a couple hundred more for my car than DSMlink; I wouldn't mind even a couple hundred for the level of control you get. Not that any of this is on topic, though. :D
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Well I'm just glad I'm not getting flamed for my comments this time around (albeit months later). Its nice to have a mature conversation. Likewise on the EMS, for someone with your experience level it is a great choice. You'll love it as its built for racers who like to have their cake and eat it too.
 
#31 ·
I don't know Jack about tuning, but have been following this thread because I do want to learn all about tuning and how my car works period. When I see:

"fine tune their WHOLE maps to cure trouble spots on pump gas,"

I am assuming their is some shortcoming in DSMLink that does not allow you to adjust timing for certain driving situations with pump gas. Being a NOOB, how do these "trouble spots" affect daily driving and how much does it affect you from getting your car to perform at its full potential ? I mean how much HP do you lose by not being able to "tune WHOLE maps", or am I understanding this incorrectly ?
 
#32 ·
The timing controls in dsmlink are RPM based. Meaning you adjust timing at certain RPM points. This means that if you adjust timing at 3000rpms, regardless if you're at WOT or closed loop it will adjust the timing by the amount you told it to. This really doesnt effect your car from performing to its maximum so to speak, since really even this control is far better than factory, but it doesnt allow you to adjust timing for load based conditions. You cant adjust timing for cruise at 3000rpms, and then for WOT at 3000rpms for example, its just one set figure. How much more 3 dimensional timing adjustments would help, I dont know, but they definately couldnt hurt. The way it is in DSMlink now however isnt detrimental really, as generally you dont play with timing till the upper rpms (5000rpms+), at least in my case, and by that time you're almost always going to be at WOT.
 
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#33 ·
I took out about 8* of timing under WOT boosted conditions. If I did this to the whole map then my car would be a dog. I actually added 3-4 degrees of timing under low load conditions. Theirfore in some RPM portions of my map I have 12 degrees difference from the factory values at low load compared to the factory values under boost. The 5000 and 5500 rpm points immediatley come to mind.

Still, DSMLink is the only alternative if you can't edit chips yourself.
 
#34 ·
I need to dump my 1G DSMLink ROM, but assuming the timing and fuel tables 'look and act' the same as stock ... it would be easy to make a more advanced timing editing section in the editor.

However, I'm not sure how much Mertz/Dorris would appreciate me doing that?

Same goes for expanding the the fuel/timing tables resolution.
 
#35 ·
I have a few questions..

Currently i am running an evoIII big 16 fully ported w/ 34 mm flapper, ported evoIII mani, ported evoIII 02, RC 550's, 255 on hardwire, buscher afpr @ 40#, HKS VPC, hard intake pipe, 2g tb elbow and buscher UICP, half ass 2.5" presbent retaining stock DP elbow :eek: ...

MY CAR IS A TURD!

I want to covert to DSMlink so i can actually tune the thing, the vpc is lean under part throttle and sucks @$$ at WOT...its just not right. Plus spool up is taking forever and will not make full boost until like 5k which isnt right.

Here's my big question..when converting to a DSMlink, do I NEED a MAF-T with the GM sensor, or can i swap back to my stock MAS? Also, I have become a slight ricer and enjoy the sound of my VPC venting to the atmosphere..heh...I am willing to convert to the MAF-T to retain this :D OR can i still vent now that i'd be running the DSMlink? If i can't fine. I wont. But id like to get this car running half decent even if it means no venting with just the DSMlink.

Also, you NEED an eprom style ecu for this i take it?? Mine has the "E" on it, but has been remanufactured...if i open it up should i be able to see a 'prom'?

IF SO, do i still need this socketing done? or will the dsmlink plug into that spot?

I apologize for the questions, i HATE being a NOOB at things, but ive read all i can find and searched on it, just came up with these few things. I feel it would be more worthwile than running an afc and a logger ontop of the VPC

THANKS!!!!! :)
 
#36 ·
RSbeast said:
I have a few questions..

Currently i am running an evoIII big 16 fully ported w/ 34 mm flapper, ported evoIII mani, ported evoIII 02, RC 550's, 255 on hardwire, buscher afpr @ 40#, HKS VPC, hard intake pipe, 2g tb elbow and buscher UICP, half ass 2.5" presbent retaining stock DP elbow :eek: ...

MY CAR IS A TURD!

I want to covert to DSMlink so i can actually tune the thing, the vpc is lean under part throttle and sucks @$$ at WOT...its just not right. Plus spool up is taking forever and will not make full boost until like 5k which isnt right.

Here's my big question..when converting to a DSMlink, do I NEED a MAF-T with the GM sensor, or can i swap back to my stock MAS? Also, I have become a slight ricer and enjoy the sound of my VPC venting to the atmosphere..heh...I am willing to convert to the MAF-T to retain this :D OR can i still vent now that i'd be running the DSMlink? If i can't fine. I wont. But id like to get this car running half decent even if it means no venting with just the DSMlink.

Also, you NEED an eprom style ecu for this i take it?? Mine has the "E" on it, but has been remanufactured...if i open it up should i be able to see a 'prom'?

IF SO, do i still need this socketing done? or will the dsmlink plug into that spot?

I apologize for the questions, i HATE being a NOOB at things, but ive read all i can find and searched on it, just came up with these few things. I feel it would be more worthwile than running an afc and a logger ontop of the VPC

THANKS!!!!! :)
Click to expand...

1. You don't need a maf-t for dsmlink. You can use the stock 1g maf. (though I also like a little bit of rice and have the maf-t in blowthrough to vent ;)). Dsmlink byitself won't really let you vent (while running halfway decent)

2. You do definitely need an eprom ecu. Won't work without it. If your ecu has an "e" sticker on it it might be eprom (but not necessarily). Crack it open and take a look. If it does, you just need to get it socketed (and replace the caps while you're at it). If you don't have an eprom ecu, I have one for sale --see the dsm parts for sale section or pm me.

Dsmlink is a really nice tuning tool. It's probably the best investment I've made in the car; installing it in place of the SAFC made the car run 100% better even at the base settings. I haven't played with tuning it yet, but as it it's + 40HP on the ass dyno.

Hope that helps

-Scott
 
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#37 ·
Thanks Scott!

We all know ass dyno's never lie so it must be a world of difference ;)

I will be opening up the ecu tommorow to see if it's promed or not, I managed to get a free laptop, so thats a cool plus. Will any decent electronics place socket an ECU or should i be sending this to a reputable DSM 'socketer'...heh...turn around time?

I appreciate the info, I will most certainly be selling this VPC and getting the link along with splicing a 3" dp into this exhaust. The car has been giving me fits lately and im EVER so close to calling it a day.... and buying an LS1 f-body :D <<wrong answer lol

thanks again!

-Tom
 
#38 ·
RSbeast said:
Will any decent electronics place socket an ECU or should i be sending this to a reputable DSM 'socketer'...heh...turn around time?
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Potentially, though you want to make sure that they know what they're doing. You don't want to have some schmuck tear apart the solder and do a half assed job. The guys at dsmlink will do a socket job for you for 50 bucks, you might be able to find it for cheaper, but they will do a great job without a doubt...

As a side note, they've got some of the best customer service and customer presence that I've seen in any business. Very good company, it's no wonder they're still around and doing well.

-Scott
 
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#39 ·
RSbeast said:
Thanks Scott!

We all know ass dyno's never lie so it must be a world of difference ;)

I will be opening up the ecu tommorow to see if it's promed or not, I managed to get a free laptop, so thats a cool plus. Will any decent electronics place socket an ECU or should i be sending this to a reputable DSM 'socketer'...heh...turn around time?

I appreciate the info, I will most certainly be selling this VPC and getting the link along with splicing a 3" dp into this exhaust. The car has been giving me fits lately and im EVER so close to calling it a day.... and buying an LS1 f-body :D <<wrong answer lol

thanks again!

-Tom
Click to expand...
Tom, if you in deed have an EPROM ECU, I would have it socketed by someone who knows what they are doing. I recommend Steve on the board (stevep).

Don't sell out and buy a V8. :D

Get DSMlink, good stuff.
 
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