Hey all, I just recently bought a 94 non turbe eclipse with the 2000 DOHC engine and auto tranny and can't believe this car is sooooo slow. I used to own a 1g Laser with the same engine but the turbo model with a five speed and that thing was a rocket on wheels. I bought this car because it is in fantastic condition in every aspect and got a really good deal on it but it's got me a little concerned by how slow it is. I didn't expect it to be as fast as my turbo Laser was but this seems a bit ridiculous. I raced a 99 4 door Ford Escort that is completely stock up to about 75 mph and he beat me so bad it was embarrassing, we're talking about 15+ car lenghts with ease. I've owned and raced a lot of cars in my time and turbo or not this just doesn't sound right at all. I was wondering if this car is normally just this slow without the turbo, if there is perhaps something wrong though it seems to run to perfection, or if there is something I can do to get this thing moving. Any and all help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!
DSM spanked bad by a stock 4 door Escort..Need Help Please!
insanerc
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Hey all, I just recently bought a 94 non turbe eclipse with the 2000 DOHC engine and auto tranny and can't believe this car is sooooo slow. I used to own a 1g Laser with the same engine but the turbo model with a five speed and that thing was a rocket on wheels. I bought this car because it is in fantastic condition in every aspect and got a really good deal on it but it's got me a little concerned by how slow it is. I didn't expect it to be as fast as my turbo Laser was but this seems a bit ridiculous. I raced a 99 4 door Ford Escort that is completely stock up to about 75 mph and he beat me so bad it was embarrassing, we're talking about 15+ car lenghts with ease. I've owned and raced a lot of cars in my time and turbo or not this just doesn't sound right at all. I was wondering if this car is normally just this slow without the turbo, if there is perhaps something wrong though it seems to run to perfection, or if there is something I can do to get this thing moving. Any and all help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!
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1,686 Posts
First...its just a 4cyl NA with 134hp and no torque.
Add to that an AT, which means it takes forever to get anywhere near the necessary torque to move that thing + you have heavier drivetrain loss.
basically all those reasons why nobody put an AT in a 4cyl come together and thats what makes your car so slow. you've bought the slowest DSM possible....an NA and AT to boot, just a bad combination when not having torque.
Even with the 300Nm that the turbo models have, owning an AT is not a lot of fun. Trust me
Add to that an AT, which means it takes forever to get anywhere near the necessary torque to move that thing + you have heavier drivetrain loss.
basically all those reasons why nobody put an AT in a 4cyl come together and thats what makes your car so slow. you've bought the slowest DSM possible....an NA and AT to boot, just a bad combination when not having torque.
Even with the 300Nm that the turbo models have, owning an AT is not a lot of fun. Trust me
Well that's about what I expected to hear though hoping it wasn't the case. I was racing a LS1 with an auto and aftermarket torque convertor along with a few other mods and killing every standard I came across but I guess with these little 4 bangers it's a whole different world due to the lack of available torgue.
I guess the only other question remaining is if this car is a total write off for racing at this point with money being a consideration or is there something that can be done. Thanks and I appreciate the info a lot.
I guess the only other question remaining is if this car is a total write off for racing at this point with money being a consideration or is there something that can be done. Thanks and I appreciate the info a lot.
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503 Posts
the difference between a NA AT and a turbo 5 speed is night and day.
put 3k into the motor and itll still be night and day...
sorry to say but the NTs are downright sloowww
no power + a good amount of weight = a slow car
i say get another TSI and smoke mad escorts
put 3k into the motor and itll still be night and day...
sorry to say but the NTs are downright sloowww
no power + a good amount of weight = a slow car
i say get another TSI and smoke mad escorts
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11,002 Posts
I would say if it was a manual, you could build a 4G63 and drop it in.
BUT, even still you'd be FWD, and starting off at a disadvantage.
With an auto, its just not worth it. Its also not worth it to swap engine and tranny. Its a wash. Get out and get a turbo AWD manual.
Its a completely different ballgame then.
I managed to steal a 2g... so I settled for turbo FWD manual.
And I still kick myself its not awd.
(Its a clean car and I got $1500 into it)
And STILL... kick myself...
well, a little.
Save that 1g for parts. That whole engine will be of use to you if its a 2.0l
If its a 1.8l find a cliff.
Sorry 1.8l guys...
BUT, even still you'd be FWD, and starting off at a disadvantage.
With an auto, its just not worth it. Its also not worth it to swap engine and tranny. Its a wash. Get out and get a turbo AWD manual.
Its a completely different ballgame then.
I managed to steal a 2g... so I settled for turbo FWD manual.
And I still kick myself its not awd.
(Its a clean car and I got $1500 into it)
And STILL... kick myself...
well, a little.
Save that 1g for parts. That whole engine will be of use to you if its a 2.0l
If its a 1.8l find a cliff.
Sorry 1.8l guys...
Hey thanks Slownis, man I'm not too far from you here in Magnolia TX. Don't guess I could get some directions to your house so I could try and outrun ya just so I'd feel a little better about this thing huh, lol. Darn! I hate it when it's all show and no go!!!!
Hey emocore_racer,
Yeah night and day would be a fair description. The 5 speed turbo Laser I had a few years back would have probably pulled 30 lenghts on this thing before hitting 70 mph. Pretty pitiful IMO. Well at least the guy in the Escort had fun huh? At my expense,
Yeah night and day would be a fair description. The 5 speed turbo Laser I had a few years back would have probably pulled 30 lenghts on this thing before hitting 70 mph. Pretty pitiful IMO. Well at least the guy in the Escort had fun huh? At my expense,
Hi Asmodeus,
Wow.....nevermind, lol. Anyway thanks for the advice and right about now I'm thinking I'm the one that needs the kicking. Geeze what a bum deal. It's unfortunate I ended up with a generic DSM it appears. Think I'm just going to cut my losses and put it up on the side of the road with the ole for sale sign back in the window. Maybe with some luck I won't take too much of a loss and can find a real one. The laser I had a few years back was a turbo 5 speed and though it was FWD also I got to the point of being able to launch it fairly quick off the line and cut some good 60' times to my surprise. Sure would love to give the AWD a shot!
Wow.....nevermind, lol. Anyway thanks for the advice and right about now I'm thinking I'm the one that needs the kicking. Geeze what a bum deal. It's unfortunate I ended up with a generic DSM it appears. Think I'm just going to cut my losses and put it up on the side of the road with the ole for sale sign back in the window. Maybe with some luck I won't take too much of a loss and can find a real one. The laser I had a few years back was a turbo 5 speed and though it was FWD also I got to the point of being able to launch it fairly quick off the line and cut some good 60' times to my surprise. Sure would love to give the AWD a shot!
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884 Posts
It wouldn't make you feel much better man. Look in my photo album to see. At least you got show. Gawd I'd luv to have more than eight valves....insanerc said:Hey thanks Slownis, man I'm not too far from you here in Magnolia TX. Don't guess I could get some directions to your house so I could try and outrun ya just so I'd feel a little better about this thing huh, lol. Darn! I hate it when it's all show and no go!!!!
i was in the same boat with the 2.0l and it just being slow,i kept my car and put about 3g into the car but still wanting that boost and 500whp i bought a 91 TSi and for right now im building it up over the winter and having it ready for the summer,new paint,wheels,suspension,built motor,interior everything is being replaced except the backseats and stuff b/c it wont be a grocery getter where as my N/A is and im fine with that im keep it in the DSM family!
Goodluck man!
Goodluck man!
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1,470 Posts
LMAO!!! Find a cliff. Drive it as fast as you can...uhhh...well...try to get it going fast enough that you can launch it and not just bottom out on the edge, and ramp that thing off!!!
Wow man...I'm sorry.
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2,098 Posts
Well, I raced an escort that had a muffler and stayed 1 car behind after 50. They have a decent 0-60 time for a na 4 with less hp than our cars! But more torque. That said, I raced a girl in a na eclipse and felt bad afterward. It took 5 sec for me to realize she was racing cause the damn automatic. After she got rolling it was ok But I could have beat that thing at 4.5k
The main problem is the stick. He probably pulled a lot of ground on you from the dig. Cause, honestly I have driven both and I don't think theres a big difference except the 14" wheels on the 'scort.
But I could have beat that thing at 4.5kThe main problem is the stick. He probably pulled a lot of ground on you from the dig. Cause, honestly I have driven both and I don't think theres a big difference except the 14" wheels on the 'scort.
Hey again Slownis, well you may be right but at least I might be able to say I beat someone in the darn thing, lol. As far as the show it's a problem because yesterday I had a Porsche pull up to me wanting to race. Geeze can you imagine that? Needless to say I turned the tunes up a bit and tried to act like I didn't notice him. What a crock!!!
Hey there DSMX1, well sounds to me like there's not much use in me dumping 3g into it, lol. Also sound like your project TSi is going to be a screamer. Man do I miss those days. Uh........
dreaminskyline, hey bud glad you got your jollies from this thread. While fun I guess reality it a bit harsh at times. Well you keep on dreamin' about that Skyline and while I'll pass on the cliff idea I may just start dreaming of dropping an LS1 in this thing and making a drift car out of it, lol. It's all good!
Hi mavisky, well that tells me something at least in that the auto tranny may not be as much of a culprit as some make it sound. Here where we race at the Baytown NHRA track the autos with aftermarket convertors (some with tranbrakes) are killing the manuals on a pretty regular basis. Now these are V-8s so I'm not really sure how that applies to 4 banger cars due to the lack of torgue but it is interesting you seem to have had about the same situation I have give or take. Not being supper savvy on the DSMs I was wondering did they ever put the turbo in an auto version and if so I wonder how it worked out. I've raced both autos and manuals and as far as the 1/4 mile goes a modded auto holds it on very well in the V-8s but the manual still seems to have the edge on the open road.
Hey there DSMX1, well sounds to me like there's not much use in me dumping 3g into it, lol. Also sound like your project TSi is going to be a screamer. Man do I miss those days. Uh........
dreaminskyline, hey bud glad you got your jollies from this thread. While fun I guess reality it a bit harsh at times. Well you keep on dreamin' about that Skyline and while I'll pass on the cliff idea I may just start dreaming of dropping an LS1 in this thing and making a drift car out of it, lol. It's all good!
Hi mavisky, well that tells me something at least in that the auto tranny may not be as much of a culprit as some make it sound. Here where we race at the Baytown NHRA track the autos with aftermarket convertors (some with tranbrakes) are killing the manuals on a pretty regular basis. Now these are V-8s so I'm not really sure how that applies to 4 banger cars due to the lack of torgue but it is interesting you seem to have had about the same situation I have give or take. Not being supper savvy on the DSMs I was wondering did they ever put the turbo in an auto version and if so I wonder how it worked out. I've raced both autos and manuals and as far as the 1/4 mile goes a modded auto holds it on very well in the V-8s but the manual still seems to have the edge on the open road.
Hey MegaGS, well I checked the weight difference between my DSM and the Escort I raced and believe it or not my car was only about 100lbs heavier so weight wasn't the issue at least. I thought the Escort was fairly quick for just a stock 4 door but what really surprised me was how slow my car was. I did get a chance to drive the escort and will say the extra gear of the five speed was a definite factor as the 3 speed + overdrive (4 total) auto tranny in my car did not have a close enough ratio between the gears. With the low torque and stock convertor my car launched like a bicycle with a flat tire while the Escort just slightly broke lose the front tires and did come off the line pretty fair so yeah he did pull several of those lengths there but still kept pulling until the finish.
Hey again mavisky, thanks for the info bud as that's what I was hoping to hear, lol. You know to get any car into the 9s is expensive and a lot of work so that really doesn't bother me as it's going to be a factor anyway. I will need to weigh the logic of doing all this to this particular car of course before digging in but it's sounding feasible at least from some of the info I'm starting to get. Thanks again!
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322 Posts
Look on the good side you only got spanked by a Escort. If you were the guy with the 91-92 NA 1.8 DSM that I spanked with my tracker than I would feel bad. Or the the early model Legacy that could barely inch away from my tracker on the highway. Yeh your car is slow but it is going to last alot longer than my talon.
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