Downshifting - good, bad, or dosen't matter?

psyjoniz · Jun 12, 2001

I did a search and didn't really come up with much..

I've heard a lot of different opnions from 'it dosen't hurt anything whatsoever' to 'it ruins your entire engine - don't ever do it'. anyone care to set me straight as to the pros and cons?

generally when i drive, i downshift in every gear possible starting with 5th on the interstate (after the engine has dropped in rpms of course..) and going right down to 1st ALONG with using my brakes (lightly) - is this messing up my engine? would i be better off just using my brakes?

confusious2002 · Jun 12, 2001

well you are putting more wear on your transmission than you have to. I usually use nutral when pulling to a stop sign or a red stop light, and try to use my gearbox a lot less so it last long.

3312DC · Jun 12, 2001

Put in some high quality synthetic gear lube, and give her hell... Its what I do... down shifting earlier gives you that avaliable power right away too, if you need it.

1BADDSM · Jun 12, 2001

Are you talking about engine braking? When you down shift to slow the car down.

I had a similiar post about that before but never really got any answers. So, this is how I figure it. As soon as you let off of the gas the car's injectors cut to 0%. So try to coast as much like that as possible (for gas mileage). Engine braking just puts a little more wear on the engine and clutch. I personally don't believe it is worth it so I normally leave the car in it's gear until the Rs drop to low, then hold in the clutch. Now if I know I'm slowing down (most of the way there) and have to get in that same gear to take off again I'll downshift to slow the car and to be in the right gear. Otherwise I stay away from it. Does it really hurt the car, probably not. Do I recommend it, no. For the little $$ brakes cost (and simplicity of changing), I wouldn't put the extra wear on the rest of the car.

1BADDSM · Jun 12, 2001

Damn I'm slow at typing.

confusious2002 said:
I usually use nutral when pulling to a stop sign or a red stop light, and try to use my gearbox a lot less so it last long.

Did you know that putting it in neutral actually causes you to get less mileage (assuming you are rolling to a light or stop sign and not rolling for as far as you possibly can)? The injectors have to keep the motor running that way, otherwise (if left in gear) it can cut duty to virtually 0%.

HARTS · Jun 12, 2001

3312DC said:
Put in some high quality synthetic gear lube, and give her hell... Its what I do... down shifting earlier gives you that avaliable power right away too, if you need it.

It also stops your car a hell of a lot faster than braking when you are about to ass end somebody.

If your doing 40mph and the guy in front of you slams on the brakes, and you hit yours, your tires will lock up and you will hit him(probably). Now if you downshifted and hit the brakes, the tires don't lock, and you stop faster. If your not going to downshift at least hold the clutch in with the trans. in a lower gear, just in case.

confusious2002 · Jun 12, 2001

1BADDSM said:
I personally don't believe it is worth it so I normally leave the car in it's gear until the Rs drop to low, then hold in the clutch.

I heard this wears the clutch faster along with sitting at a stoplight in gear with the clutch in.

1BADDSM · Jun 12, 2001

Clutch, no. Throwout bearing, defenitely.

If I know I'm going to set there for over 30 seconds I'll just let it set in neutral (yeah, I'm lazy

). There isn't any wear going on the clutch since when I'm deaccelerating it's already grabbed the flywheel.

eslai · Jun 12, 2001

My opinion is that brake pads and rotors are cheaper than new clutches. I never engine brake anymore.

In a panic stop situation, engine braking could be useful, but the time it takes to downshift is not always available in panic stop situations. Your first instinct should always be the brake pedal, of course.

Downshifting while rev-matching (and the natural extension of that--heel-toe downshifting) is an important technique that will save wear on your tranny and clutch, and help you drive smoother, therefore faster.

confusious2002 · Jun 13, 2001

1BADDSM said:
Clutch, no. Throwout bearing, defenitely.

If I know I'm going to set there for over 30 seconds I'll just let it set in neutral (yeah, I'm lazy ). There isn't any wear going on the clutch since when I'm deaccelerating it's already grabbed the flywheel.

yea, i knew it was something to do with the clutch (throw out bearing), but i couldn't think of the name so i just put clutch.

Stephen · Jun 13, 2001

if you have a 2g neutral is your friend to help prevent a walking crank.

blunttwister · Jun 13, 2001

my 2 pennies

you really shouldnt use the clutch/engine to slow the car down often, all it does is add more wear and tear on the engine/tranny/clutch. not saying you shouldnt ever, i will down shift and brake(heel/toe) when making most 90degree turns(2nd gear). yes you will be able to stop faster using engine braking w/your brakes, but it doesnt make any sense to put hte extra wear. most people really downshift because they like the sound decel, slowing to a stop light in nuetral isnt very intimidating, but downshifting to 4-5k in second will sound mean and get you more attention.

what i will do when i see a red light, is 1st hit the brakes, pop it in nuetral and as i am nearing the light w/foot on brake, tweak the gas a little, you get the best of both worlds,

2g guys-DONT SIT AT A LIGHT W/YOUR CLUTCH DEPRESSED, CRANKWALK HAS TO DO W/LOW OIL PRESSURE, WHICH IS ASSOCIATED W/LOW RPM. idle doesnt give you enough lub on the bearing. that is why you(2g) disconnect you clutch safty switch, so you dont have to push the clutch to start the car. no lubrication when the car is off and the pressure of that big clutch,your better get your shoes and start walking(literaly).

95GST · Jun 13, 2001

I am able to get into habit of brake and downshift at the same time while on the highway and need to make sudden slow down. It works well together.

And if you are really cool you can heel toe downshift and then suddenly pull out and change lane

saw in Jackie Chan movie.

There is a danger rolling in neutral to a stop. You must make sure not to go into neutral or rolling state before applying the brakes. On slippery roads it may cause the tires to lock.

psyjoniz · Jun 13, 2001

thanks for all the input!

question - crankwalk - does it apply to the 420A engine? i tend to hold my clutch in with the car in 1st at a light before it turns green - is this going to cause crankwalk?.. and what is crankwalk? is it something like knocking inside its fitting over and over causing it to get warped or opened up more causing the rod or whatever is spinning to start slapping around over time?

greenstreak · Jun 13, 2001

The 4G63 is the motor that gets crankwalk in a 2G and not the n/a 420A. Don't worry. Do a search for crankwalk on this site or on the Talon Digest for what it is exactly.

nukefission · Jun 20, 2001

psyjoniz said:
generally when i drive, i downshift in every gear possible starting with 5th on the interstate (after the engine has dropped in rpms of course..) and going right down to 1st...

I do this too, except downshifting to 1st. 1st is just too low and I think does the most damage if you aren't careful with it. Plus it's jerky and uncomfortable.

I engine brake with moderation. If you don't go crazy with it it shouldn't be that bad. Some car manuals, however, explicitly state that you should not engine brake with that car (I've seen this written in a Honda del Sol owners manual). Also, some city/town laws prohibit the use of engine braking. Some also prohibit coasting in neutral. I dunno how they expect to enforce that, though.

psyjoniz · Jun 20, 2001

hrmm - i understand the 'no downshifting' law (braking with no brake lights), but the coasting in neutral? wonder what their reasoning is.

since i posted this thread, i've almost cured myself of downshifting, although this is a habbit i've developed since i started driving stick years ago.. and dammit if i don't feel totally retarded hitting only the brakes after having taken my car out of gear and doing nothing with my left foot!

thanks for all the input guys(gals?)!

3312DC · Jun 20, 2001

nukefission said:
I engine brake with moderation. If you don't go crazy with it it shouldn't be that bad. Some car manuals, however, explicitly state that you should not engine brake with that car (I've seen this written in a Honda del Sol owners manual). Also, some city/town laws prohibit the use of engine braking. Some also prohibit coasting in neutral. I dunno how they expect to enforce that, though. [/B]

In the DSM manual it says that you shouldnt coast in neutral, mostly due to the fact that it is illegal in some areas

laser92awd · Jun 21, 2001

Only reason I can think of is when you're coasting you only have one degree of freedom to get out of the way - braking. It takes that extra second or so to shift your car back into the right gear to accelerate out of the way in case you're about to be rear-ended. I'll assume this also applies with driving with the clutch in, unless you're in the right gear to drop the clutch and get on going.

I don't think they really enforce it unless it's really obvious that you're doing it (I heard of only one time that someone was mentioning how "limp" a car looks when it's coasting versus braking/in gear/maintaining speed.)

Habits I'm trying to kick:
- coasting when the red light is really far away but you "probably" have to stop.
- clutching to get ready to shift into 6th gear (whoops, where's 6th?)

- Forgetting to downshift when the speed limit goes down or traffic kicks up.

Lipster · Jun 21, 2001

Hmmm....
Well, as SOON as I am at a stop SIGN or stop light, I am in neutral. I won't sit longer than 2 seconds with my clutch pedal in!

I know around here or in the central part of PA, there are some roads that go up and over some mountains and wind around a bit in the meantime. I'll put the car in 3rd or 4th gear on the way down the mountain to use the engine as a break so I don't over heat the brakes or warp those finnicky front rotors.

I'm not sure how it is worse than accelerating balls to the wall...

Downshifting - good, bad, or dosen't matter?

psyjoniz

confusious2002

3312DC

1BADDSM

1BADDSM

HARTS

confusious2002

1BADDSM

eslai

confusious2002

Stephen

blunttwister

95GST

psyjoniz

greenstreak

nukefission

psyjoniz

3312DC

laser92awd

Lipster

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