Downshifting - good, bad, or dosen't matter?

mikesgsx · Jun 21, 2001

Brakes cheap?

My dealer in MA charged me 60 each to turn the front rotors on the car. Replaced the rear rotors and pads, etc, spent about 500 on the brakes...and they're starting to vibrate again.

Are they cheaper than a clutch...i'm starting to wonder.

laser92awd · Jun 21, 2001

Re: Brakes cheap?

mikesgsx said:
My dealer in MA charged me 60 each to turn the front rotors on the car. Replaced the rear rotors and pads, etc, spent about 500 on the brakes...and they're starting to vibrate again.

Are they cheaper than a clutch...i'm starting to wonder.

If you DIY I heard of some auto parts stores will turn rotors for free. Of course you still have to take it out and bring it to them.

If you keep on toasting the brake parts/rotors it's gonna be expensive. But getting new pads by themselves is definately cheaper (and easier to do, just about anyone with a C-clamp and a socket set can do it) than getting a new clutch plate. Be nice to your rotors, they should last a long time with regular driving - letting them improperly cool coupled with overtighened lugnuts make them warp. Compare it to how many stock/oem clutches one would need to get if you constantly ride it or do lots of revved clutch drops...

1BADDSM · Jun 21, 2001

Re: Brakes cheap?

mikesgsx said:
My dealer in MA charged me 60 each to turn the front rotors on the car. Replaced the rear rotors and pads, etc, spent about 500 on the brakes...and they're starting to vibrate again.

Not to make you feel bad, but I just bought a pair of brand new rotors (warrantied for 2 years) for ~$40. I always did and always will do my own brakes, the only hard part is braking the bolts loose. No company ever heard of the word grease (really anti-seize grease should be used there)! Watch those prices the dealerships give you!! How long has it been since they've turned them? That's why I got rid of mine, it'd be about $8 a rotor (for free, nothing is free!, it is even costing you money to read this right now

) to turn but there wasn't enough metal there to safely turn, so they got trashed. Maybe the dealership just didn't take enough off.

psyjoniz · Jun 21, 2001

1BADDSM - i agree with you - do it yourself - doing brakes is really one of the easiest maintenance things on a car and if you spend a little time, you'll find a good deal on either OEM or aftermarket rotors and pads and putting em in yourself saves tons and also keeps you informed as to what exactly is going on with your car (the brakes at least) so if something brakes or gets messed up, you know how to fix it right away. i have a spare set of rotors i keep in my car along with a new set of pads in case the new one's i just got get funky, but they seem to be holding up good so..

my original stock rotors warped within weeks of getting them turned every time - i had em done like 4 times - what a nightmare. spent like 100 each time to get em done too.

Dan · Jun 21, 2001

Here's a simple way to look at it...

Brakes are cheaper than clutches.
Clutches are cheaper than transmissions.

Use your brakes to slow down, not your clutch and tranny.

If you do downshift, only do it when necessary (to get on the power for a good reason), and learn to heel-toe so you match revs between the engine and the tranny. Blip the throttle about 500-800 RPMs to make up for the shorter gear of the lower gear... Otherwise that feeling you get when your car kind of jumps in a downshift is just putting more wear on the system.

Let's say 5th gear's ratio was 0.60:1 and 4th gear's ratio was 1.00:1. When you slam your car into 4th gear from 5th at a given RPM, the engine has to speed up to make up for the difference in the tranny. If you blip the gas, it makes the transition much smoother.

SPEEDY · Jun 21, 2001

Stephen said:
if you have a 2g neutral is your friend to help prevent a walking crank.

I hear you there, also in my opinion this is to everybody, that any time you are mashing that clutch pedal in any form or fashion it is being used period. The more you use it the sooner you will replace it, always at a redlight or stop sign put it in neutral while your waiting, save that clutch for when you need it most, for racing. That is the only time I abuse mine.

Stephen · Jun 21, 2001

Im in neutral as much as possible. I NEVER EVER sit on the clutch unless its only for a few seconds but i will rev up the engine as i do this to keep oil pressure as high as possible without catching to much attention

SPEEDY · Jun 22, 2001

Stephen said:
Im in neutral as much as possible. I NEVER EVER sit on the clutch unless its only for a few seconds but i will rev up the engine as i do this to keep oil pressure as high as possible without catching to much attention

Yeah! I try to do the same thing myself, looks like it's been helping you out with your miles so far, meaning the dreaded crankwalk that is.

IRalliWannaRace · Jun 22, 2001

speedy. when the clutch is disengaged at a stop, with the car in first but you just sitting there doesn't hurt your clutch. It's not touching, and therefore not being used. Burning a clutch is done by slipping first, and giving it gas with the clutch only partway out. I mean clutches wear when ever they are out but really burning it on the way up destroys it real fast.

blunttwister · Jun 22, 2001

he doesnt mean buring the clutch, he and we are talking about crankwalk. read up on crankwalk.

SPEEDY · Jun 22, 2001

blunttwister said:
he doesnt mean buring the clutch, he and we are talking about crankwalk. read up on crankwalk.

Right on brother you know where I'm a coming from BLUNTTWISTER, speaking of blunts it's about that time right now just got home from the slave pit and it's time to twist the ole blunt up. Later dude!

3312DC · Jun 23, 2001

we are not driving ford escorts, they are sports cars, and can take the mild punishment of downshifting and engine braking. Just do it correctly, use some synthetic gear oil and stop your bitching. 2G guys, yea I understand your neutral at a stop/ oil pressure problem. This isnt a flame, I just get frustrated when people are pussys with their cars. I feel this way probably because my dad owns a porsche and drives it slower than my mom drives her oldsmobile. Just my .02....

laser92awd · Jun 23, 2001

OneDamnFast 92TSI said:
Why does it hurt to push in your clutch pedal at lights?
I usually do that

I don't understand the crankwalk problem, but for the 1g 6bolt is the same as any other clutch/stick car...pushing the clutch pedal in wears down that spring eversoslightly...

Usually it won't make a difference really, since you have the spring down for such short time out of all the time in the car...

I decided not to excersize my left leg.

blunttwister · Jun 23, 2001

laser92awd · Jun 24, 2001

blunttwister said:
ONEDAHMFAST AND LASER92,
ONE MORE TIME, THIS HAS TO DO W/CRANKWALK, FOR 2G'S.
READ THIS
[ snipped - see previous message in this thread for details ]
THAT SHOULD DO.

Do I really need to care about 2g crankwalk on my 6 bolt 1g?

Sorry for not even botherring to deeply investige CW because, well, I got a 1g. Besides, the reason why I don't understand is the clutch in a "at rest" (i.e., your foot is not on the pedal) state is still putting pressure onto the crankshaft. Whether or not your clutch is engaged or disengaged will determine the loading on your crankshaft. But if you think about it this way: if your clutch is disconnected and not putting any pressure on your crankshaft, wouldn't it be *less* stress, and therefore saving the crank from walking? Sure it's still ticking but it's already too late and damaged at that point if it's ticking. You're not causing it to get any worse, it's already dead. That's why some of these arguments don't add up.

Now if you started with a good 2G-T engine, sure, if you chatter it when you ride it, drop the clutch for a launch, or even just playing with it by being in neutral and wasting cycles "clutch in clutch out clutch in clutch out" it will aggravate even more wear into the system.

So just standing on the clutch, how does it affect CW?
It looks like it doesn't. Yes, if you're taking it in and out several times at a stop to rest your leg ... that will definately cause the crank journals to get worn more because it's constantly having to change positions.

I hope this explains my view and I hope this is correct or at least makes sense...flame away if it doesn't, I deserve it.

SPEEDY · Jun 24, 2001

3312DC said:
we are not driving ford escorts, they are sports cars, and can take the mild punishment of downshifting and engine braking. Just do it correctly, use some synthetic gear oil and stop your bitching. 2G guys, yea I understand your neutral at a stop/ oil pressure problem. This isnt a flame, I just get frustrated when people are pussys with their cars. I feel this way probably because my dad owns a porsche and drives it slower than my mom drives her oldsmobile. Just my .02....

You have a good point there. Other than the crankwalk problems associated wit us 2g people I probably wouldn't stress as much, because these cars should be coming from the factory with pretty strong parts to begin with, to a certain extent. But I believe anything can break if overly abused. That is a waste about your dad's porsche that's why most people buy them is to haul ass in them.

psyjoniz · Jun 25, 2001

3312DC said:
we are not driving ford escorts, they are sports cars, and can take the mild punishment of downshifting and engine braking. Just do it correctly, use some synthetic gear oil and stop your bitching. 2G guys, yea I understand your neutral at a stop/ oil pressure problem. This isnt a flame, I just get frustrated when people are pussys with their cars. I feel this way probably because my dad owns a porsche and drives it slower than my mom drives her oldsmobile. Just my .02....

i'd like to make sure i'm getting the best 'bang for my buck' seeing as how its my paycheck that suffers (not daddy's) when i've done something to my car that could have been avoided with a little question-asking and research. if you have nothing constructive to say, or if you intend to start a flame, keep your comments to yourself.

Lipster · Jun 25, 2001

Just what is everyone afraid of by downshifting down, say, a long hill?

I've done it for years and years and years... 113k on my DSM, 186k on my 280ZX... the old man does it and he had 154k on an old Renault...

psyjoniz · Jun 25, 2001

well, since i'm not an expert, i figured i'd ask around and get other people's opnions (not necessairly experts..anyway) and decide whether or not i wanted to keep downshifting whenever possible. since i started this thread, i've decided that its in my wallets best interest to only downshift when needed instead of at every stop i make. i actually didn't think the thread would last this long, so... thats all. just trying to be informed.

Lipster · Jun 25, 2001

I think your conclusion is the best conclusion. Only when necessary.

Downshifting - good, bad, or dosen't matter?

mikesgsx

laser92awd

1BADDSM

psyjoniz

Dan

SPEEDY

Stephen

SPEEDY

IRalliWannaRace

blunttwister

SPEEDY

3312DC

laser92awd

blunttwister

laser92awd

SPEEDY

psyjoniz

Lipster

psyjoniz

Lipster

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