Big 16G vs. Mutt Level one turbo

Marc_B · Jul 19, 2001

I'm looking for peoples opinions on these two turbos. The Mutt specifically since I've already heard so many things about the 16G. I'll be looking into upgrading from my T25 to something a bit bigger and I'm not sure which way to go.

I heard the Mutt flows more cfm but how does it compare in spool up time. My car is a street car so I don't want something with a lot of lag but I still would like some more top end power. I plan on running about 16psi on crappy California gas.

Any thoughts?

Boost Fed · Jul 20, 2001

Go for the Mutt. It is supposed to have 16g-like spoolup with WAY more top end. I've heard nothing but good things about the mutt turbos.

Van · Jul 20, 2001

Easy one
16g, been around a long time, tried, true, proven and cheaper.

RRE has them on sale right now too, I believe... With you being in Cali, they are in state for any support you might need.

BatmanGSX · Jul 20, 2001

Boost Fed said:
Go for the Mutt. It is supposed to have 16g-like spoolup with WAY more top end. I've heard nothing but good things about the mutt turbos.

Um, dude, where have you been? Opinions are 50/50 at best. I can't say one way or the other about the mutt... But I can say if you've only heard good things you haven't been listening.

Go for the Big 16G if you want a proven turbo. I haven't heard anything really bad about the Big 16G, except maybe the cost over the small.

1QWK4 · Jul 20, 2001

Go with the big 16G, I know a few local dsmers here who have them. They said they love em. Then again some people said some negative stuff about the Frank 3 and I still bought it. My thought on the frank 3, I'd buy another one anyday. Mutt is new (I don't know anyone with one), but if you are willing to try something new, go ahead and let us know how you like it.

Kris
93 TSI AWD

Colin P · Jul 20, 2001

go for the Mutt

..or something similar to it. I have a mini-mutt, and I think it's a very good product. I wasn't very happy with the service that I got @ DSM performance, so I would say you get it somewhere else. I think there are turbos out there that are basically the same. As for the perfomace of the mini mutt, I ran a 13.9 with the turbo, K&N, and a AVC-R as the only mods. The rest of the car is completely STOCK. So the performance is definitely there.

bill9009 · Jul 20, 2001

well i did have a mutt on my car for about 2 months but it broke so now i am back to my 16g, who knows why it broke i mean the bearing went in it, it could have been something in the oil or just a bad turbo who knows, but extreme turbo is building me another one, a bigger and better one, so we will see how that one works when it gets here, well as for performance, with the 16g i put down 304 at the wheels, i wish i could have taken it back after i dropped the mutt in but i didnt get around to it before it broke, but just from driving it i can tell that the mutt picks up where the 16g starts losing it, what i mean is it always seemded like the 16g would start to crap out at higher rpms but the mutt just kept pulling and pulling, well that is my opinion, and is u ask me all the guys at that shop are great and i like dealing with them, they are always willing to help when i run into a problem which seems to be quite often

Marc_B · Jul 21, 2001

Wow. Looks at all the responses. No need to start a flaming war here I'm just interested in peoples experiences with either turbo with regards to top end power and spool up and how they compare to each other. I've gotten some good comments. Let's keep them coming.

For those that had one and switched to the other, is there a big difference in power delivery of the Stage 1 Mutt to the 16G?

Thanks guys.

Van · Jul 21, 2001

"We now return you to your original program and would like to thank you for flying with dsmtalk..."

1997EclipseGST · Jul 21, 2001

well i just installed a big16g yesterday and WOW!! the turbo spooling sounds so much deeper and meaner, its ported and clipped so i also have the mad phat top end. it takes me until about 3500 to spool the sucker but once its spooled watch out. its just awesome, you get pulled back in the seat. also its tried and proven like alot of others say. go with big 16g.

-Aaron

Marc_B · Jul 21, 2001

1997EclipseGST said:
well i just installed a big16g yesterday and WOW!! the turbo spooling sounds so much deeper and meaner, its ported and clipped so i also have the mad phat top end. it takes me until about 3500 to spool the sucker but once its spooled watch out. its just awesome, you get pulled back in the seat. also its tried and proven like alot of others say. go with big 16g.

-Aaron

How many degrees did you have the 16G clipped?

1997EclipseGST · Jul 21, 2001

Mine is a 10 degree clip. I think it increased spoolup like a couple hundred rpms, but thats fine with me. also it pulls really hard at higher rpms and at highway speeds and will give you the edge over other people with no clip. ive heard that 15 drgree is too much unless youre just all out racing, it increases spoolup way too much.

-Aaron

bill9009 · Jul 22, 2001

ok well i have had both turbos and well if u have the money i say go for the mutt because in the end i think they offer more possibilities but if u dont then go for the 16g and u will not be dissapointed, i have had the 16g and like i said i put down 304 to the wheels which i guess is about 350-360 at the flywheel which is like a 140-150 increase over the stock 210 at the flywheel, well anyways if all u got is like 700 then 16g is the way but if u want a little more i would check out dsm performance and extreme turbo and see what the can do for you

BMorganPA · Jul 22, 2001

I personally am impressed with the mutt turbos and i am planning on getting a mutt level 1 due to the quick spool-up and how it hold all the power until redline. And i noticed some ppl said that if you have the money you should get the mutt but the big 16g isnt that much less expensive because the turbo by itself is $700, the 2g install kit is another $325, and if you want to get it ported and clipped thats another $150 providing a grand total of $1175 and the mutt level 1 is just under $1200 so the cost is about the same for both turbos

Van · Jul 22, 2001

fwiw - A "special 16g" equipped Galant ran an 11.47 at the shootout.
It also seems that that high 10 sec mutt level7 car was only running 12.0's at cecil county dragway a few days ago. It is possible he was just having a bad day, it can happen, but he was running four slicks and the car is severely gutted (2800lbs according to the site.) He also was sporting an external wastegate.

[Edited by Van on 07-22-2001 at 02:35 PM]

Blitz · Jul 22, 2001

bill9009 said:
ok well i have had both turbos and well if u have the money i say go for the mutt because in the end i think they offer more possibilities but if u dont then go for the 16g and u will not be dissapointed, i have had the 16g and like i said i put down 304 to the wheels which i guess is about 350-360 at the flywheel which is like a 140-150 increase over the stock 210 at the flywheel, well anyways if all u got is like 700 then 16g is the way but if u want a little more i would check out dsm performance and extreme turbo and see what the can do for you

Since you have both turbos which one spooled better and give you more top end ?

Boostd4 · Jul 22, 2001

I had an EXTREMELY ported 16G and currently have a Mutt Level 1 with a 7o clip.

Night and day.

the 16G felt stronger around 15psi (probably because it spooled a little sooner - unclipped), but the Mutt Level 1 at 19psi just blew me away. 2nd gear was just CRAZY... roll on second gear and nail it at about 3500rpm and it just snaps you.. the 16G was nice, but really did die above 6k.

and 19psi for a level 1 Mutt is nuthin.. they'll do 24psi easy (unlike a 16G).

This was all on stock fuel system w/walbro and stock IC.

What's nice about the 16G is that there are tons of archive info on it. You can even get SAFC maps from RRE for a 16G setup... the mutt requires you to have a datalogger or at least half a brain not to overload your fuel system (it puts out more CFM, and the charge is cooler as well - both good things, but both dangerous as well).

[Edited by Boostd4 on 07-22-2001 at 05:01 PM]

Blitz · Jul 22, 2001

Boostd4 said:
I had an EXTREMELY ported 16G and currently have a Mutt Level 1 with a 7o clip.

Night and day.

the 16G felt stronger around 15psi (probably because it spooled a little sooner - unclipped), but the Mutt Level 1 at 19psi just blew me away. 2nd gear was just CRAZY... roll on second gear and nail it at about 3500rpm and it just snaps you.. the 16G was nice, but really did die above 6k.

and 19psi for a level 1 Mutt is nuthin.. they'll do 24psi easy (unlike a 16G).

This was all on stock fuel system w/walbro and stock IC.

What's nice about the 16G is that there are tons of archive info on it. You can even get SAFC maps from RRE for a 16G setup... the mutt requires you to have a datalogger or at least half a brain not to overload your fuel system (it puts out more CFM, and the charge is cooler as well - both good things, but both dangerous as well).

What time have you run with your Mutt turbo and what mods are on your car ?

[Edited by Blitz on 07-22-2001 at 06:36 PM]

bill9009 · Jul 22, 2001

the 16g spooled a little quicker and the mutt seemed tro have alot more top end power, but like boostd4 said if run at 15 psi the 16g felt better but once u cranked up the boost the mutt felt better, and as for 300+ for the install kit , well if u get all the pieces by yourslef it is a hell of alot cheaper

Boostd4 · Jul 22, 2001

I haven't been to the track with the Mutt yet. But I did make about 10 passes on my car with the 16G@14.5psi

13.7@98mph was the best one.. anyway, with just a turbo swap and a 3" intake with 2G MAS, the Mutt feels WAY faster. Based simply (and fairly inaccurately) by my street kills, I'd say that the Mutt@19psi with just intake/exhaust is in the high 12's, low 13's.

I bought a BR FMIC and once installed I'll get to the track.
This is the list of mods that will be on my car by Sept. 1st:

2.5" turbo back exhaust
2.5" tubular 02 housing w/dump
Mutt Level 1 Ported/Clipped
95+ Ported Exh. Manifold
Stock head
650cc Injectors
95+ TB elbow
BR FMIC
ACT 2600
MSD DIS-2
Profec B
S-AFC
3" Dejon Intake
AGX shocks/Progress springs
TMO Datalogger

I'm going for 11's. Maybe, maybe not. I know 12's will not be a problem, and hopefully with some keen datalogging and LOTS of passes and tuning I can get there. Rich went 11.7 on his Mutt 1, but he also had headwork and cams.

Big 16G vs. Mutt Level one turbo

Marc_B

Boost Fed

Van

BatmanGSX

1QWK4

Colin P

bill9009

Marc_B

Van

1997EclipseGST

Marc_B

1997EclipseGST

bill9009

BMorganPA

Van

Blitz

Boostd4

Blitz

bill9009

Boostd4

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