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Discussion starter · #101 ·
I wasn't thinking of going crazy on the runners. At the very least smoothing it all out nicely. That alone is probably 1mm. I was wondering how i could do a uniformed job by hand. I'll have to look into you dingleberry thingy.

How much extra flow do pick up by running 1mm oversized valves in the head? I dont think its a fair comparision just wondering.
 
90blacktsiawd said:
How much extra flow do pick up by running 1mm oversized valves in the head? I dont think its a fair comparision just wondering.
Not sure, I've never NOT had o/s valves.
If you unshroud them, I think a little all over, if not I'm sure it really only helps at peak volume (air) on a big turbo. When you're basically just blasting air in and you need a bigger doorway.

My car (in the beginning) with nothing but the 1g/2g parts mix match and a boost controller beat similar but heavier modded dsm's. It has to make a difference. How much I dunno. I think the same scenario will be true of the runners. It will help only when its just SO much air it just HAS to be bigger.
Which, is what we want. Tho I think that point will be determined by peak flow not necessarily falling into top end. Or high rpm. Especially on your 2.3l
That may not be 7k rpm. It might be that you make "X" more hp at 5k do to less restriction @ peak flow.

For me it will be higher on a 2.0l
 
This is what I like to see Don. Making Brent work. I think you guys are onto something. Although it might be something that will need alot tweaking. Don, you mentioned something about thinning out the flange. You might run into a problem with heat transfer from the head, aswell as warpage due to heat.
 
I bought a cyclone intake a while back and just got it ut to clean it up and posubly do an upgrade to my stocker. I just found this thread and after reading I am really interested on how this is going? I might wait to see what happens before I put mine on. So is it possible to get an update?

Thanks, also , great thread, nice seeing some intelligent minds in action.

Joe
 
Well, I figured I'd throw my two cents into the hat here. I actually have a CNC machine in my garage to make the plates and various plenum pieces with, and I definitely will be using a Cyclone manifold on my new build, once I actually find one for sale at a reasonable price.

What are people's thoughts on variable plenum volumes / resonance tubes? It's not a new concept. Just like switching runners, one can use a butterfly valve, a slide valve, or various other methods to open/close off plenum area at a certain RPM.

Take a look at this fantastic SAE paper on the design of Mazda's K-series V6es. Take special note of their design of the VRIS system, complete with dyno graphs of how the 4 possible combinations of the two switching valves affected the torque curves.

http://www.tsentraal.ee/mx6/engine/SAE920677.htm

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Seems like engineering something like that, coupled with the pre-engineered dual runner setup in the cyclone manifold would be one hell of a setup.

Would take 4 dyno pulls to get the switching points right with the dual runners and one switched resonance tube / plenum volume, and 8 dyno pulls if you implemented dual switched resonance tubes like the K-series manifolds, but I bet the gains would be worth it. One could even pillage old mazda V6 manifolds for the vacuum switching actuators, shafts, and butterflies, too.

We wouldn't be able to calculate the effects of different volumes as easily as Mazda did, thanks to their engineering expertise and CFD software, but we could make some pretty good guesses based on how they designed their plenum.

I'd be able to easily make an adjustable controller for all 3 of the butterflies for probably $50-75 - it would control both the cyclone actuator and the one or two we used for a variable plenum volume / resonance tube, so this would all work happily with the stock ECU.

I could also definitely get the lower plates for the plenum CNCed if there was interest. Anyone up to the task of designing the upper plenum?
 
I'm a firm believer if thingy puts his mind to something reality
will bend to his will if necessary.
The guy knows his stuff.

I have one sitting here I plan on using.
I'm all ears.

Any way I can help let me know.
:)
 
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